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the Todd Rundgren topic - Steely_D - Mar 15, 2024 - 11:01am
 
Things You Thought Today - kurtster - Mar 15, 2024 - 10:37am
 
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Radio Paradise app on Android is broken - timmus - Mar 15, 2024 - 5:25am
 
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Android App Problems After Update - jarro - Mar 14, 2024 - 12:58am
 
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It's the economy stupid. - kurtster - Mar 13, 2024 - 11:22am
 
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If not RP, what are you listening to right now? - Beaker - Mar 11, 2024 - 12:37am
 
• • • What Makes You Happy? • • •  - Red_Dragon - Mar 10, 2024 - 11:02am
 
female vocalists - Steely_D - Mar 10, 2024 - 9:13am
 
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Ridiculous or Funny Spam - KurtfromLaQuinta - Mar 9, 2024 - 8:31am
 
Oh dear god, BEES! - KurtfromLaQuinta - Mar 9, 2024 - 8:24am
 
Maybe it's just the beer talking... - Proclivities - Mar 8, 2024 - 12:04pm
 
History - lather, rinse, repeat. - R_P - Mar 8, 2024 - 10:12am
 
Big Pharma - black321 - Mar 8, 2024 - 9:33am
 
Can't find Radio 2050 in my Ocean Digital Tuner - sjagminas1 - Mar 8, 2024 - 7:57am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Mar 7, 2024 - 6:50pm
 
Music Videos - Red_Dragon - Mar 7, 2024 - 6:21pm
 
Climate Change - Manbird - Mar 7, 2024 - 2:58pm
 
what else do you listen to? (RP alternatives) - haresfur - Mar 7, 2024 - 1:43pm
 
~ Have a good joke you can post? ~ - black321 - Mar 7, 2024 - 12:17pm
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - oldviolin - Mar 7, 2024 - 11:56am
 
Did the punishment fit the Crime? - oldviolin - Mar 7, 2024 - 11:43am
 
The US of A telling Russia not to invade Ukraine is like... - GeneP59 - Mar 7, 2024 - 8:42am
 
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NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 10:55pm

 Steely_D wrote:


Great. Now he’s going to have to kill you.



 

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 10:51pm

 kurtster wrote:


two things.. 

1) you should read what I write more carefully before I spending half an hour writing a long screed.
2) my real point was "illegal immigration does not explain the depth of his passion"  Kurtster you are deeply passionate about these issues

fwiw I lived in SF for six months and did door to door for Greenpeace throughout the entire Bay Area. I am familiar with all of those neighborhoods (but not those in SoCal obviously). 
The U.S. is not the only country with growing ethnic diversity btw.  It's becoming a pretty universal phenomenon. I remember watching a white male biker's gang trashing the next-door neighbors house when I was 8 (1970) because a Maori gang had barricaded themselves inside and the police didn't arrive till they were all so exhausted and beaten up there was nothing left to do. Racial tension has been around a long time. so yeah, your experience is not entirely unique and it doesn't explain the depth of your passion. 

"the border" should be a bipartisan issue but it is being instrumentalized by Trump to win support. IMO he doesn't want to fix it. He wants to exploit it.

have you seriously never met any transgender people? Apart from the biological fact that there are other chromosome pairings out there, nonbinary people exist in all cultures and ages (I saw a few in India when I was there in the 80s and worked with a couple of Polynesian ones.) They exist Kurtster. They are generally pretty nice people.. See it as part of life's rich fabric. 
haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 10:22pm

 rgio wrote:

Trump unable to post $450M bond in New York fraud case, his lawyers say

Trump's lawyers say they've approached 30 companies through four brokers and none will accept his real estate holdings as a guarantee on the bond for $454 million and argue the judgment is unconstitutionally high.
Imagine that... you lie about the value of the properties you own to borrow money at favorable terms, and when you have to use them as collateral for lying,  nobody wants to touch them.

Don't look now...but Trump's lawyers like the Constitution today.





I don't see trumps son-in-law, who is supposedly worth around $800M, posting the bond. Same for trump's kids

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 9:58pm

 Steely_D wrote:
A few hours later, facing mounting criticism from Jewish groups, Mr. Trump’s campaign repeated his incendiary charge, declaring that “Trump is right,” and that

the Democratic Party “has turned into a full-blown anti-Israel, antisemitic, pro-terrorist cabal.”
 
So I did a google search on your quote and came up with the smallest list that I have ever seen before on any google search.

4 results and the NYT was there twice.

https://www.google.com/search?q=the+Democratic+Party+%E2%80%9Chas+turned+into+a+full-blown+anti-Israel%2C+antisemitic%2C+pro-terrorist+cabal.%E2%80%9D&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
.
You must be a real insider.

Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 5:05pm

A few hours later, facing mounting criticism from Jewish groups, Mr. Trump’s campaign repeated his incendiary charge, declaring that “Trump is right,” and that the Democratic Party “has turned into a full-blown anti-Israel, antisemitic, pro-terrorist cabal.”
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 4:02pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 thisbody wrote:

A) Yes, that's a global phenomenon. I think what Kurt in his own words means by globalists and marxists could as well be read as neoliberalists and neocons.

Maybe I'm wrong or lost in translation, but the thing is, it feels the same in Europe. The Davos crowd seems willing to step on us all, which is kind of hard to accept (and not revolt against) since former welfare states (such as Germany) with the onset of Covid have turned blatantly fascist, employing censorship of all media, and such the like with the simple shrug of "there's not enough money, dear"... Well, WHO turned everything in the hands of the public to be privately bought? The rail-, the airway-, the post-, and the banking gone virtual? Yes, it all started to happen in the US of A in the late 1970s. A virus not to be contained: Capitalism eats itself.

ok, if I can try and identify the "grievance" out of this

B) and if Kurt can try to honestly articulate his grievance, we might be actually getting somewhere. 
I don't want to disparage either of you. A LOT of people feel the same way.  But there does seem to be lot confusion out there as to what exactly the problems are and moreover, what precisely the causes of the problems are.  Here, you express your nostalgia for a functioning welfare state and state ownership of key infrastructure (something I actually share btw) and simultaneously frustration at the government taking away personal rights during an epidemic (and at a guess the Green Party trying to push through wide-sweeping reform to address climate change). It's a bit of a contradiction in terms, tbh. You want a nanny state, but not one that nannies.C)  For his part, Kurtster always falls back on "illegal immigration", which by itself is not sufficient to explain his depth of passion. He's mightily pissed off, but I still can't work out what about.

D) It mostly seems to be with people who are not like him or who don't share his support of Trump. Here too, I interpret this as nostalgia for a past that is slipping out of his control as the world around him changes. You both seem to share a tendency to blame change on nefarious movers working in the background. 
But what if such people don't actually have as much power and influence as you think? What if all of these changes are just the product of historical contingency? What if the world is simply pretty chaotic and difficult to govern and we are all kind of muddling through?
 
A)  yes that would be a fair interpretation.

B) I have articulated my "grievance" over and over again and what I have said has not changed the whole time.  Is one more time going to make a difference ?  That you cannot understand that there is such a thing as illegal immigration in the US is not a fault of mine.  Either you being from a different part of the world or you find the concept so reprehensible that you cannot admit that it just might be real and have to actually articulate your own position in relation to mine when you see mine as totally illegitimate.

C)  Once again, "illegal immigration".  You have a hard time with this obviously.  I suppose you approve of Biden's apology to Laken Riley's murderer for calling him illegal, at the same time saying nothing about the actual victim.

D) " People who are not like him" (me).  Tell me where my xenophobia, homophobia and racism I am repeatedly accused of comes from when I am from and grew up in one of the most diverse metropolitan areas in the US in the 50's and 60's.  Berkeley and the SF Bay Area and SoCal.  I had the Asian in SF and the Latin in SoCal.  I had 3 years of Spanish by 8th grade.  Then 4 years of German in HS.  I went to the same elementary school in Berkeley that Kamala Harris cited in her debate with Biden. She told the story of having to go there for Second Grade and how traumatic it was.  The one where she called him a racist.  Asian and black in Berkeley along with desegregation.    Then SoCal 70 miles from the Mexican border, when on a routine basis every time I went surfing and headed south I always saw a US Border patrol parked at the north entrance to Camp Pendleton off Basoline Road in South San Clemente.  The yellow warning signs on the north bound side of US 101 in the section once known as Slaughter Alley going right through Pendleton next to the ocean, that had representations of migrants rushing across the freeway and to be on the look out so you would not run them over.   Not to mention the Beat and homosexual experiences of SF and down south in Laguna Beach and the famous "Little Shrimp" bar. The Hell's Angels and Angela Davis and the original Black Panthers.  Mario Savio and the Free Speech Movement in my back yard, literally.

.
This was my normal.  This and a whole bunch of other things too numerous to mention including weed and psychedelics. All by the age of 16. I am sure that this kind of exposure was everyone's experience growing up, not just mine, right ?  And from this I emerged racist, xenophobic and homophobic ?  I am for the last time, none of those things that you all call me over and over again.  I came to terms with all of this so long ago.

If we can stop all the virtue signaling and posing and speak about things in a straightforward Adult way, like saying that there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration and that one is good while the other is bad.  And we can also say that a Woman is the Adult form of the biological female of the human species and not say that this is not true.  That men cannot get pregnant in any natural way.  Then maybe I can have an actual conversation.  But I've tried over and over again and I am stopping the insanity of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting that maybe something will change with the people I am trying to engage.  It hasn't and it won't.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 4:01pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
 thisbody wrote:

A) Yes, that's a global phenomenon. I think what Kurt in his own words means by globalists and marxists could as well be read as neoliberalists and neocons.

Maybe I'm wrong or lost in translation, but the thing is, it feels the same in Europe. The Davos crowd seems willing to step on us all, which is kind of hard to accept (and not revolt against) since former welfare states (such as Germany) with the onset of Covid have turned blatantly fascist, employing censorship of all media, and such the like with the simple shrug of "there's not enough money, dear"... Well, WHO turned everything in the hands of the public to be privately bought? The rail-, the airway-, the post-, and the banking gone virtual? Yes, it all started to happen in the US of A in the late 1970s. A virus not to be contained: Capitalism eats itself.
ok, if I can try and identify the "grievance" out of this

B) and if Kurt can try to honestly articulate his grievance, we might be actually getting somewhere. 
I don't want to disparage either of you. A LOT of people feel the same way.  But there does seem to be lot confusion out there as to what exactly the problems are and moreover, what precisely the causes of the problems are.  Here, you express your nostalgia for a functioning welfare state and state ownership of key infrastructure (something I actually share btw) and simultaneously frustration at the government taking away personal rights during an epidemic (and at a guess the Green Party trying to push through wide-sweeping reform to address climate change). It's a bit of a contradiction in terms, tbh. You want a nanny state, but not one that nannies.C)  For his part, Kurtster always falls back on "illegal immigration", which by itself is not sufficient to explain his depth of passion. He's mightily pissed off, but I still can't work out what about.

D) It mostly seems to be with people who are not like him or who don't share his support of Trump. Here too, I interpret this as nostalgia for a past that is slipping out of his control as the world around him changes. You both seem to share a tendency to blame change on nefarious movers working in the background. 
But what if such people don't actually have as much power and influence as you think? What if all of these changes are just the product of historical contingency? What if the world is simply pretty chaotic and difficult to govern and we are all kind of muddling through?
 
A)  yes that would be a fair interpretation.

B) I have articulated my "grievance" over and over again and what I have said has not changed the whole time.  Is one more time going to make a difference ?  That you cannot understand that there is such a thing as illegal immigration in the US is not a fault of mine.  Either you being from a different part of the world or you find the concept so reprehensible that you cannot admit that it just might be real and have to actually articulate your own position in relation to mine when you see mine as totally illegitimate.

C)  Once again, "illegal immigration".  You have a hard time with this obviously.  I suppose you approve of Biden's apology to Laken Riley's murderer for calling him illegal, at the same time saying nothing about the actual victim.

D)  People who are not like him (me).  Tell me where my xenophobia, homophobia and racism I am repeatedly accused of comes from when I am from and grew up in one of the most diverse metropolitan areas in the US in the 50's and 60's.  Berkeley and the SF Bay Area and SoCal.  I had the Asian in SF and the Latin in SoCal.  I had 3 years of Spanish by 8th grade.  Then 4 years of German in HS.  I went to the same elementary school in Berkeley that Kamala Harris cited in her debate with Biden.  The one where she called him a racist.  Asian and black in Berkeley along with desegregation.  She told the story of having to go there for Second Grade and how traumatic it was.  Then SoCal 70 miles from the Mexican border, when on a routine basis every time I went surfing and headed south I always saw a US Border patrol parked at the north entrance to Camp Pendleton off Basoline Road in South San Clemente.  The yellow warning signs on the north bound side of US 101 in the section once known as Slaughter Alley going right through Pendleton next to the ocean, that had representations of migrants rushing across the freeway and to be on the look out so you would not run them over.   Not to mention the Beat and homosexual experiences of SF and down south Laguna Beach and the famous "Bare Foot Bar". The Hell's Angels and Angela Davis and the original Black Panthers.  Mario Savio and the Free Speech Movement in my back yard, literally.
This was my normal.  This and a whole bunch of other things too numerous to mention including weed and psychedelics. All by the age of 16. I am sure that this kind of exposure was everyone's experience growing up, not just mine, right ?  And from this I emerged racist, xenophobic and homophobic ?  I am for the last time, none of those things that you all call me over and over again.  I came to terms with all of this so long ago.

If we can stop all the virtue signaling and posing and speak about things in a straightforward Adult way, like saying that there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration and that one is good while the other is bad.  And we can also say that a Woman is the Adult form of the biological female of the human species and not say that this is not true.  That men cannot get pregnant in any natural way.  Then maybe I can have an actual conversation.  But I've tried over and over again and I am stopping the insanity of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting that maybe something will change with the people I am trying to engage.  It hasn't and it won't.
Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 3:47pm

Mr. Gorka asked Mr. Trump about criticism that prominent Democrats — including President Biden and Senator Chuck Schumer, the majority leader — had levied against Benjamin Netanyahu, the right-wing prime minister of Israel.

“I actually think they hate Israel,” Mr. Trump replied. Mr. Gorka agreed.

“Any Jewish person that votes for Democrats hates their religion,” Mr. Trump added later. “They hate everything about Israel, and they should be ashamed of themselves because Israel will be destroyed.”



Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 3:32pm

 thisbody wrote:

Thanks for your patience. I know it's a business, and yet "the press" plays (or did so) a critical role in the 4 pillars of democratic state theory. Not any more, at least not in real life, and not in the West. The last instance I can think of that came to fame was Watergate. Snowden and Assange, of course, but we all know what happened to them (or is yet going to happen to them).

LOL - what I think your profession is? State department, foreign ministry, air force (most likely), weapons manufacturer (US).


Great. Now he’s going to have to kill you.
thisbody

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 2:05pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

sigh.. nope. it is vacuous precisely because every outlet out there is peddling a line to sell to their audience. It is a business after all. That is blindingly obvious, yet Trump sells it as though he has unmasked some great conspiracy. He hasn't. It has been there since the dawn of time. Ergo, the comment is vacuous.  Same goes for public broadcasters. They are just as beholden to their paymasters. The fact that they often are more impartial is due to their remit to serve the "public". But here too, the critical thinking is your job. 
A blanket criticism that (all) media is just  "trumpeting the political agendas of CAPITAL" is not going to get you very far unless you want to live in a cave. Much better to discern who is saying what and why and what possible agenda are they pursuing. 
Take Wagenknecht. She is definitely pursing a political agenda. Happens to be Russian capital in this case. I would never call for her to be silenced. But, by the same token, by partaking in public discourse she also exposes herself to criticism. If that is my ingrained democratic and political sentiment as a flying servicer of democracy, so be it. I can live with that.
As for not uttering criticism of my overlords, which particular ones did you have in mind? Scholz? 


Thanks for your patience. I know it's a business, and yet "the press" plays (or did so) a critical role in the 4 pillars of democratic state theory. Not any more, at least not in real life, and not in the West. The last instance I can think of that came to fame was Watergate. Snowden and Assange, of course, but we all know what happened to them (or is yet going to happen to them).

LOL - what I think your profession is? State department, foreign ministry, air force (most likely), weapons manufacturer (US).
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 1:35pm

 thisbody wrote:

You did not understand what I was trying to tell you, I guess. "MSM is corrupt" is not vacuous because it is a true statement. Corporate media in the US are privately owned and with  a (sometimes clear, sometimes unclear) political agenda. They will never bite the hand that feeds them though - but instead most always try to sound their Master's voice.
State media in Germany (and other European nations) curiously without exception keep trumpeting their governments' political agendas, often long before political decisions are actually made (through due democratic process) in parliament. On top, they favor to trumpet political agendas adhering to the CAPITAL. - I know I can't (and won't) shatter your well ingrained democratic and political sentiments as a flying servicer of democracy. I won't even try to. Yet, you seem as indoctrinated by the media, your employer and stakeholders of your personal future like most all men who defy to utter any criticism against their overlords in general. Just face it - you're being schemed. 

sigh.. nope. it is vacuous precisely because every outlet out there is peddling a line to sell to their audience. It is a business after all. That is blindingly obvious, yet Trump sells it as though he has unmasked some great conspiracy. He hasn't. It has been there since the dawn of time. Ergo, the comment is vacuous.  Same goes for public broadcasters. They are just as beholden to their paymasters. The fact that they often are more impartial is due to their remit to serve the "public". But here too, the critical thinking is your job. 
A blanket criticism that (all) media is just  "trumpeting the political agendas of CAPITAL" is not going to get you very far unless you want to live in a cave. Much better to discern who is saying what and why and what possible agenda are they pursuing. 
Take Wagenknecht. She is definitely pursing a political agenda. Happens to be Russian capital in this case. I would never call for her to be silenced. But, by the same token, by partaking in public discourse she also exposes herself to criticism. If that is my ingrained democratic and political sentiment as a flying servicer of democracy, so be it. I can live with that.
As for not uttering criticism of my overlords, which particular ones did you have in mind? Scholz? 

thisbody

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 1:12pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

I never made claims of impartiality for anyone.  As R_P will be quick to tell you, there is no such thing as impartial media.
All you can do is listen to as many sources as possible to make up your own mind. That is precisely the point.
Julia Davis is just one of many voices out there and, anyway, she merely translates Russian state TV. It's not her voice she is disseminating there, but the Kremlin's. 
So it is just as valid as all the rest.  Doesn't mean it is necessarily true. That is for you to decide. For me it is useful to know how Russian state actors are thinking.
The difference between Russia and the West is that in Russia, that is pretty much ALL you get. oh, and Tucker Carlson and pedophile-what's-his-face.

So, to get this thread finally back on track (as you've been trying, to your credit)_
This whole Trump argument that "MSM is corrupt" is vacuous because the intent behind it is not to multiply opinions in public discourse but to shut them down. Anyone telling you NOT to listen to something needs an immediate red flag. It is not about having one reliable go-to-source for all your opinions, but to have a plurality of opinions that you can weigh up against each other. The critical thinking part is something you should be doing yourself.

You did not understand what I was trying to tell you, I guess. "MSM is corrupt" is not vacuous because it is a true statement. Corporate media in the US are privately owned and with  a (sometimes clear, sometimes unclear) political agenda. They will never bite the hand that feeds them though - but instead most always try to sound their Master's voice.
State media in Germany (and other European nations) curiously without exception keep trumpeting their governments' political agendas, often long before political decisions are actually made (through due democratic process) in parliament. On top, they favor to trumpet political agendas adhering to the CAPITAL. - I know I can't (and won't) shatter your well ingrained democratic and political sentiments as a flying servicer of democracy. I won't even try to. Yet, you seem as indoctrinated by the media, your employer and stakeholders of your personal future like most all men who defy to utter any criticism against their overlords in general. Just face it - you're being schemed. 
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 12:40pm

 thisbody wrote:

I see. Of course, your cited media source is impartial, not monolithic. ;-)



I never made claims of impartiality for anyone.  As R_P will be quick to tell you, there is no such thing as impartial media.
All you can do is listen to as many sources as possible to make up your own mind. That is precisely the point.
Julia Davis is just one of many voices out there and, anyway, she merely translates Russian state TV. It's not her voice she is disseminating there, but the Kremlin's. 
So it is just as valid as all the rest.  Doesn't mean it is necessarily true. That is for you to decide. For me it is useful to know how Russian state actors are thinking.
The difference between Russia and the West is that in Russia, that is pretty much ALL you get. oh, and Tucker Carlson and pedophile-what's-his-face.

So, to get this thread finally back on track (as you've been trying, to your credit)_
This whole Trump argument that "MSM is corrupt" is vacuous because the intent behind it is not to multiply opinions in public discourse but to shut them down. Anyone telling you NOT to listen to something needs an immediate red flag. It is not about having one reliable go-to-source for all your opinions, but to have a plurality of opinions that you can weigh up against each other. The critical thinking part is something you should be doing yourself.
thisbody

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Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 12:18pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
...The days of monolithic state propaganda are over. oh, hang on, I forgot about Russia.

I see. Of course, your cited media source is impartial, not monolithic. ;-)


rgio

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Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 12:18pm

Trump unable to post $450M bond in New York fraud case, his lawyers say

Trump's lawyers say they've approached 30 companies through four brokers and none will accept his real estate holdings as a guarantee on the bond for $454 million and argue the judgment is unconstitutionally high.
Imagine that... you lie about the value of the properties you own to borrow money at favorable terms, and when you have to use them as collateral for lying,  nobody wants to touch them.

Don't look now...but Trump's lawyers like the Constitution today.



NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 12:10pm

 thisbody wrote:

Unfortunately, this is not happening. Nowhere. Instead, media are always trumpeting the government's claims, instead of being impartial and observing, they currently sound the horns of war (against Russia, China) beyond any real rationale - just trumpeting and indoctrinating to the governments' ease. While sanctions are failing and only harming the people whose governments employ them. Propaganda and censorship are no earmarks of democracy, and yet they are gaining ground every day in the West, the self-annointed pillar of democracy. Hypocrisy abound, and no one is doing anything against it. - Therefore I think Trump will be good for all of us, not only the US but the whole world.



Well in terms of media bias, that is not actually objectively true in Germany at all is it?
a) you have a shit ton of newspapers catering to all sides of the political spectrum
b) you have numerous talkshows on public TV stations that frequently invite speakers from all political parties. If anything, the minor parties are over-represented (Wagenknecht for instance) 
c) you also have IMO excessive airtime given to outspoken contrarians like Richard David Precht or Varwick. 
d) and last but not least you have a veritable tsunami of thought and opinion on the internet.

The days of monolithic state propaganda are over. oh, hang on, I forgot about Russia.


thisbody

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Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 11:56am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
well, you know that quip from Churchill, "democracy is the worst form of government - apart from all the others."
Does money play a role in politics? Undoubtedly. But money is not monolithic either. There are numerous interest groups out there competing with each other for public attention. 
There is not just one source of big "money".  There are hundreds. The same holds true for the media. 
The best weapon against politicised media, interest-group lobbying and paid shills on the internet is open discourse and full disclosure. It's messy but there is no real alternative.

Unfortunately, this is not happening. Nowhere. Instead, media are always trumpeting the government's claims, instead of being impartial and observing, they currently sound the horns of war (against Russia, China) beyond any real rationale - just trumpeting and indoctrinating to the governments' ease. While sanctions are failing and only harming the people whose governments employ them. Propaganda and censorship are no earmarks of democracy, and yet they are gaining ground every day in the West, the self-annointed pillar of democracy. Hypocrisy abound, and no one is doing anything against it. - Therefore I think Trump will be good for all of us, not only the US but the whole world.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 11:20am

 thisbody wrote:

Thanks. Let me answer the last one which rings in my ears most. YES it is democracy what you describe. But is that what is practiced in the West? In the US? Really?
Is it not more something that is influenced by capital flows from X to Y? In other words: the best democracy one can buy for money?
I'm afraid, there is no such thing as democracy in most all the Western world, because most all their democratic principles have been eaten up by money. - "JohnQPublic or me - living off of social welfare at age, after having payed plenty and plenty of taxes" to the daimos (the people). And no, they DO NOT RULE. THEY ARE BEING RULED instead. Ruled by the ones with enough money to pay the media and bribe the decision makers.


well, you know that quip from Churchill, "democracy is the worst form of government - apart from all the others."
Does money play a role in politics? Undoubtedly. But money is not monolithic either. There are numerous interest groups out there competing with each other for public attention. 
There is not just one source of big "money".  There are hundreds. The same holds true for the media. 
The best weapon against politicised media, interest-group lobbying and paid shills on the internet is open discourse and full disclosure. It's messy but there is no real alternative.

thisbody

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Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 10:51am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

I'm going to ignore that for the time being, cause it is kind of out of left-field and entirely hypothetical. 

Getting back to this sentence of yours:
"Putting a potential solution way OFF like you seem to do (powerless rulers, history, all are muddling) in my opinion gives rise to even less competent rulers, which I'd hate to (trust me - I 'd really hate them) let go off without a mark."

Two things.. 
1. "a solution" is a bit fraught. There is no "one" solution and things keep changing. I don't advocate putting solutions off at all. I just leave them up to the elected government, which frequently means having to tolerate incompetent leaders for the time being, but hey, that is what democracy is all about. At least we get the chance to change them.
2. rulers being judged on their competence  - isn't that what elections are all about in the first place?  If you don't perform well, you are out.



Thanks. Let me answer the last one which rings in my ears most. YES it is democracy what you describe. But is that what is practiced in the West? In the US? Really?
Is it not more something that is influenced by capital flows from X to Y? In other words: the best democracy one can buy for money?
I'm afraid, there is no such thing as democracy in most all the Western world, because most all their democratic principles have been eaten up by money. - "JohnQPublic or me - living off of social welfare at age, after having payed plenty and plenty of taxes" to the daimos (the people). And no, they DO NOT RULE. THEY ARE BEING RULED instead. Ruled by the ones with enough money to pay the media and bribe the decision makers.
kcar

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Posted: Mar 18, 2024 - 10:46am

 kurtster wrote:

You have reached a new low.  You are now lower than the bottom of a snake's belly.

You are beyond hyper partisan.  You are self projecting the antisemitism that has become so deeply entrenched in today's democratic party.

I bet that you think Hamas are the good guys.

You brought up George Soros as a source of chaos and cause of lawlessness. He is a bogeyman for hard-right types including Trump and Viktor Orban. Orban and others effeecively shut down Soros's university because of Soros's democracy-oriented activities and his Jewish background. 

This isn't news to you, Kurt. There was a significant back-and-forth in RP forum about Soros and his supposed influence on politics and even his childhood. There ws heated discussion ast to whether Soros's father was a Jewish collaborator with the Nazis during WWII and whether Soros himself, as a child helping his father's work, was indirectly such a collaborator. 

I'm also pretty sure you understand that words like "globalists", "internatinoalists", and "godless Marxists" are dog whistles for anti-semitism. 

Are you personally an anti-Semite> I don't know.But you're a brilliant parrot of all the dog whistles and fact-less rants against Soros. And I see NO daylight between you and your rapist friend who tolerates and quietly encourages anti-semitism bcause it furthers his claim that America is controlled by corrupt, lawless and grasping elites. 

Frankly, I have very little faith that you've even briefly considered where your view of America today comes from and who or what has influenced it. You are told to fear and hate and you follow. 

If you're not being paid to shill for Trump, you really should try to score a gig as a Trump influnencer. Just make sure you get paid up front.

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