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kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 9:47pm


Kurt: you also wrote: 


"Where is my conspiracy ? It centers around the FISA warrants. And with the IG's report it is no longer a conspiracy theory, it has been established as a fact. The only thing the IG did not conclude publicly was the motivation for deceiving the FISA court in the first place. He did conclude that there was egregious and deliberate lying involved in the FISA warrant process and more was added to the deception every time it was renewed."




As for the FISA applications to start surveillance of Carter Page, they are deeply disturbing. It's quite possible that was malfeasance. But IG Horowitz did not state that the FBI lied or was involved in a conspiracy when making FISA court applications:




The inspector general found 17 errors or omissions made by the FBI as it sought and received approvals to conduct surveillance on former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page. Those applications were filed to the secret court created by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, to oversee intelligence and terrorism cases Republicans pressed Horowitz to explain what, other than intentional animus or political bias, would explain so many errors.

“It’s fair for someone to sit there and look at all of these 17 events and wonder how it could be purely incompetence,” Horowitz conceded.



You wrote



"He did conclude that there was egregious and deliberate lying involved in the FISA warrant process and more was added to the deception every time it was renewed."



If you're referring to Kevin Clinesmith's doctoring of emails, that's pretty thin stuff.




Vox.com  reports: 


The report is far from a glowing assessment of the FBI’s actions


This is particularly true on the issue of the Carter Page wiretap. Horowitz documents “significant inaccuracies and omissions” in the initial application sent to the FISA court, which were repeated in subsequent renewals, along with additional errors.

The inspector general concluded that these instances represented “serious performance failures” by those with responsibility over these wiretap applications.

The report doesn’t say whether “any particular misstatement or omission” or a combination of them would have affected the approval of the wiretap, but Horowitz states that the top brass at the FBI and the DOJ should have been given “complete and accurate” information.

“That did not occur, and as a result, the surveillance of Carter Page continued even as the FBI gathered information that  weakened the assessment of probable cause and made the FISA applications less accurate,” Horowitz concludes. In other words, these missteps left out evidence that may have worked in Page’s favor.

The report documents one example of clear misconduct by an FBI attorney who falsified a document to alter information about Page. In that case, the FBI did not disclose to the FISA court that Page had a relationship with the CIA and had provided information to the intelligence agency about Russia — though the bureau was aware of the relationship.


When a Justice Department official followed up on this information, the FBI attorney doctored an email so that it indicated Page was not a source for the CIA. (The attorney has been referred to US prosecutor John Durham’s criminal probe.)




If Horowitz found other instances of "egregious and deliberate lying involved in the FISA process, I do not find mention of them AND YOU DO NOT CITE THEM. And as I stated earlier, Carter Page was a sideshow to investigations into Trump and Russia. How your conspiracy feverdream attaches surveillance of Page to investigation of Russian meddling and hacking of the DNC server, spread of disinformation about HRC, etc., I don't know. I don't f$%ing care.





SO AGAIN: I AM DONE WITH YOUR POLITICAL IDEAS AND OPINIONS.





If you want to support one of the most corrupt and loathsome and destructive human beings I have ever encountered, that's your funeral. I want no part of it.



kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 9:00pm



 kurtster wrote:


kcar wrote  6 months ago:

Help me out here, since I've lost track/interest in the rat warren of the theories about conspiracies against Trump: the FBI had started investigating Trump's connections and contacts with Russians two months before Steele's reports reached the Bureau on Sept. 19, 2016.

IIRC the FBI has proven that the Steele Dossier was not the basis for the start of its investigations into Trump-Russia connections.


And Steele has consistently stated that the material he gathered was "raw intelligence"—reports and rumors that had not been fact-checked or verified. Furthermore, a conservative Washington paper, the Washington Free Beacon, commissioned Fusion GPS to begin investigating the Trump connection during the GOP primaries; the Clinton campaign hired Fusion GPS only after the Free Beacon stopped its investigation into Trump about the time that Trump received the GOP nomination.

So the FBI had started its own investigation into Trump before Fusion GPS hired Steele to look into Trump-Russia ties.

Fusion GPS was already investigating Trump as opposition research for GOP politicians (the second link notes that the Free Beacon is funded by a major Marco Rubio donor) before HRC got involved. And Steele never presented his material as verified facts, only rumors and reports that might serve as starting points for careful investigations.

Where is your conspiracy? Don't you think it's possible that Trump and his allies are doing their best to discredit the FBI as being involved in a conspiracy (or "coup" as you like to put it)? Frankly, I see a sleazy liar desperately trying to fight against the facts.


Dick Nixon made the same claims of conspiracies against him back during the Watergate scandal.




kurtster wrote back:

Prior to working for Fusion GPS, Steele was a paid FBI informant for several years. He was fired for leaking to the media. The back door that Steele worked to the DOJ after he was fired from the FBI was through Bruce Ohr and his wife Nellie, an employee of Fusion GPS.

It Started With a Lie: Bruce Ohr's Linchpin Role in Collusion Narrative

Fusion GPS didn’t just get Bruce Ohr’s valuable attention, the firm used it to make an ask. Nellie Ohr acknowledged in her own congressional interview what Fusion GPS had in mind when Steele invited her and her husband to breakfast at the Mayflower Hotel on July 30, 2016. “Chris Steele was hoping that Bruce would put in a word with the FBI to follow up on the information in some way.” He did just that.

Why, if Ohr was willing to tell the FBI about his conflict of interest, had he done his best to hide it on his annual ethics filing? Why didn't he correct his filing to make it consistent with what he was telling the bureau? Perhaps because he counted on the FBI to keep his role in the affair secret. Ohr encouraged the FBI to listen to Steele’s stories. When Steele broke the bureau’s rules and lost his privileged (and paid) status, Ohr stepped in to keep the stories flowing. He would talk to Christopher Steele and then report the conversation to an FBI handler who would write up the discussion in a classified form 302.
.
This whole thing reeks so bad. Matters to me, maybe no one else ...

Oh and not that anyone has mentioned obstruction of justice lately, but ...

Judicial Watch: Nellie Ohr Deleted Emails Exchanged with DOJ Husband Bruce Ohr


This post is where you in particular finally start to move away from and distance yourself from the Steele Dossier / Report.

You were also completely wrong about the FBI has proven that the Steele Dossier was not the basis for the start of its investigations into Trump-Russia connections.

The IG  (or Great Pumpkin #1) has categorically stated that the Dossier was the only  reason for granting the FISA warrant to begin the investigations.  Without the Steele Dossier, there would never have been a warrant granted.  The FBI's investigation would never had launched and gotten off the ground without it.

My interest in the Steele Dossier is based purely on the above.  It has nothing to do with Nunes' or anyone else's book.

Where is my conspiracy ?  It centers around the FISA warrants.  And with the IG's report it is no longer a conspiracy theory, it has been established as a fact.  The only thing the IG did not conclude publicly was the motivation for deceiving the FISA court in the first place.  He did conclude that there was egregious and deliberate lying involved in the FISA warrant process and more was added to the deception every time it was renewed.

This is far from the last we will hear about the Steele Dossier.

Great Pumpkin #2 is not far behind ...







 

Let's get one thing out of the way upfront:

I have no more patience for or interest in discussing political matters with you.
I have tried to be respectful, patient, tolerant and substantive in my discussions with you. I find your posts increasingly combative, obnoxious and at times so digressive, illogical and even child-like that I wonder whether you are posting under the influence.

So if I post in this or other politics-related threads, you should not take those posts as an attempt to communicate with you. Because above all, I find you so entrapped in conspiracy theories and a wilful disregard for facts that reflect poorly on Trump, anti-immigration views, etc. that discussion with you is pointless, repetitive, and a waste of time.

Let me respond briefly to your last post. Hopefully after that we can ignore each other when posting about politics: 


"This post is where you in particular finally start to move away from and distance yourself from the Steele Dossier / Report."



I have no idea where you get this notion that I ever considered the Steele dossier entirely factual and free of rumor, conjecture or speculation. Frankly, I had and have little to no interest in how Steele started his investigations into Trump or how his work related to the FBI's investigation. The earliest newspaper articles and commentaries I remember reading about Steele's work noted that a significant chunk of the material he collected was unverified and based on rumor. Steele himself stated as much. The most lurid story that I recall being associated with the Steele dossier—a video tape of Russian prostitutes peeing for Trump on a bed—was clearly a rumor. No tape or eyewitness report came out before or after the news break about the dossier. 

Steele and his work were sideshows to the main event: Russian interference in the 2016 election and Russian interaction with the Trump campaign and Wikileaks. 

So don't tell that I am finally starting to move away from and distance myself from the Steele dossier. That's your warped fantasy. You can cram it.  


You wrote:


"You were also completely wrong about the FBI has proven that the Steele Dossier was not the basis for the start of its investigations into Trump-Russia connections. "



You might want to take the matter up with the Washington Post and IG Michael Horowitz. Because they're saying the exact opposite.


4 takeaways from the Horowitz report on the Russia investigation




1. A triple rebuke to Trump’s conspiracy theories

There
will be plenty of shouting in the hours and days ahead, especially
given that Horowitz’s report found some alleged FBI misconduct and
omissions. But proponents of the Russia investigation didn’t argue it
was flawless. President Trump and his allies, on the other hand, argued
it was an unfounded witch hunt and lodged conspiracy theories about how
it was an effort to take him down — even a “coup.”


The
Horowitz report, in its core findings, does not back up Trump’s and his
allies’ conspiracy theories. In fact, it undercuts a number of them.



First, it says the information “reasonably indicated activity constituting either a federal crime or a threat to national security, or both, may have occurred or may be occurring.”

“For similar reasons … we concluded that the quantum of information articulated by the FBI to open the individual investigations on Papadopoulos, Page, Flynn, and Manafort in August 2016 was sufficient to satisfy the low threshold established by the Department and the FBI,” the report says.


In perhaps an even more significant finding, the report also addresses the idea that the investigation was hopelessly biased. Trump and his allies have pointed to anti-Trump text messages between FBI officials Peter Strzok and Lisa Page to make that case. But Horowitz issues a broad statement finding there was no evidence that personal political agendas affected the probe.

“We did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced the decisions to open the four individual investigations,” the report says.
(As we’ll get to later,  there is even compelling evidence to directly dispute this idea.)

Third,
it addresses allegations that the FBI planted an informant in the Trump
campaign, saying “we found no evidence that the FBI attempted to place
any CHSs within the Trump campaign, recruit members of the Trump
campaign as CHSs, or task CHSs to report on the Trump campaign.”


...

And
lastly, it’s clear on another popular GOP conspiracy theory — that the
investigation was founded based on a dossier full of dubious and
unverified information put together by former British intelligence agent
Christopher Steele.


“These
officials, though, did not become aware of Steele’s election reporting
until weeks later, and we therefore determined that Steele’s reports
played no role in the Crossfire Hurricane opening,” the report reads,
using the code name for the investigation.




(My words on this line:) The New York Times notes this takeaway from IG Michael Horowitz's report:






The F.B.I. first looked at ties between campaign officials and Russia earlier than previously known.

The report provides new information about when the F.B.I. started scrutinizing the links.

For the past two years, it has been widely reported that the F.B.I. began its investigation into the Trump campaign in July 2016. But the report provides new details that show that Mr. Page was actually under investigation in April of that year.


According to the report, counterintelligence investigators in New York began the investigation after Mr. Page, who had been on their radar for his ties to Russia, told them about his recent contacts with Russian officials.

The investigators were aware of Mr. Page’s ties to the campaign and were concerned that he might receive a security clearance. They did little work on the investigation into Mr. Page, and in August, agents at the F.B.I.’s headquarters in Washington took over the case.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 7:40pm



 westslope wrote:




kurtster,  cock roach is a little rough but if you actually were a cock roach, you would be my favourite cock roach.  Besides, your vinyl collection is far cooler than anything I own.   

 
Why thanks much.  Yeah, it is still all about the music !



kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 7:32pm



kcar wrote  6 months ago:

Help me out here, since I've lost track/interest in the rat warren of the theories about conspiracies against Trump: the FBI had started investigating Trump's connections and contacts with Russians two months before Steele's reports reached the Bureau on Sept. 19, 2016.

IIRC the FBI has proven that the Steele Dossier was not the basis for the start of its investigations into Trump-Russia connections.


And Steele has consistently stated that the material he gathered was "raw intelligence"—reports and rumors that had not been fact-checked or verified. Furthermore, a conservative Washington paper, the Washington Free Beacon, commissioned Fusion GPS to begin investigating the Trump connection during the GOP primaries; the Clinton campaign hired Fusion GPS only after the Free Beacon stopped its investigation into Trump about the time that Trump received the GOP nomination.

So the FBI had started its own investigation into Trump before Fusion GPS hired Steele to look into Trump-Russia ties.

Fusion GPS was already investigating Trump as opposition research for GOP politicians (the second link notes that the Free Beacon is funded by a major Marco Rubio donor) before HRC got involved. And Steele never presented his material as verified facts, only rumors and reports that might serve as starting points for careful investigations.

Where is your conspiracy? Don't you think it's possible that Trump and his allies are doing their best to discredit the FBI as being involved in a conspiracy (or "coup" as you like to put it)? Frankly, I see a sleazy liar desperately trying to fight against the facts.


Dick Nixon made the same claims of conspiracies against him back during the Watergate scandal.




kurtster wrote back:

Prior to working for Fusion GPS, Steele was a paid FBI informant for several years. He was fired for leaking to the media. The back door that Steele worked to the DOJ after he was fired from the FBI was through Bruce Ohr and his wife Nellie, an employee of Fusion GPS.

It Started With a Lie: Bruce Ohr's Linchpin Role in Collusion Narrative

Fusion GPS didn’t just get Bruce Ohr’s valuable attention, the firm used it to make an ask. Nellie Ohr acknowledged in her own congressional interview what Fusion GPS had in mind when Steele invited her and her husband to breakfast at the Mayflower Hotel on July 30, 2016. “Chris Steele was hoping that Bruce would put in a word with the FBI to follow up on the information in some way.” He did just that.

Why, if Ohr was willing to tell the FBI about his conflict of interest, had he done his best to hide it on his annual ethics filing? Why didn't he correct his filing to make it consistent with what he was telling the bureau? Perhaps because he counted on the FBI to keep his role in the affair secret. Ohr encouraged the FBI to listen to Steele’s stories. When Steele broke the bureau’s rules and lost his privileged (and paid) status, Ohr stepped in to keep the stories flowing. He would talk to Christopher Steele and then report the conversation to an FBI handler who would write up the discussion in a classified form 302.
.
This whole thing reeks so bad. Matters to me, maybe no one else ...

Oh and not that anyone has mentioned obstruction of justice lately, but ...

Judicial Watch: Nellie Ohr Deleted Emails Exchanged with DOJ Husband Bruce Ohr


This post is where you in particular finally start to move away from and distance yourself from the Steele Dossier / Report.

You were also completely wrong about the FBI has proven that the Steele Dossier was not the basis for the start of its investigations into Trump-Russia connections.

The IG  (or Great Pumpkin #1) has categorically stated that the Dossier was the only  reason for granting the FISA warrant to begin the investigations.  Without the Steele Dossier, there would never have been a warrant granted.  The FBI's investigation would never had launched and gotten off the ground without it.

My interest in the Steele Dossier is based purely on the above.  It has nothing to do with Nunes' or anyone else's book.

Where is my conspiracy ?  It centers around the FISA warrants.  And with the IG's report it is no longer a conspiracy theory, it has been established as a fact.  The only thing the IG did not conclude publicly was the motivation for deceiving the FISA court in the first place.  He did conclude that there was egregious and deliberate lying involved in the FISA warrant process and more was added to the deception every time it was renewed.

This is far from the last we will hear about the Steele Dossier.

Great Pumpkin #2 is not far behind ...







westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 5:09pm



 kurtster wrote:

Yeah, I guess I'm not much different from a dog that keeps chasing cars but never catches one.

But people keep bring up my name, like just now, and I pop in.  On the other hand, earlier I thought that I had something meaningful to bring up, namely pointing out the final debunking of the highly regarded and often cited as factual (in these parts) Steele Dossier, so I did.  Are you a disappointed dossier believer ?

Hey, be like Tom Bodett and just leave the light on ...    
{#Whisper}
  You can do it even without having an opposable thumb !
 

kurtster,  cock roach is a little rough but if you actually were a cock roach, you would be my favourite cock roach.  Besides, your vinyl collection is far cooler than anything I own.   

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 5:07pm



 Ohmsen wrote:


 westslope wrote:

The US armed forces appear to be taking anthropogenic climate disruption seriously.  

All the oil and gas companies I invest in are taking climate change seriously.   What the hell is wrong with the American voter?   The same question could be asked about many Canadian voters too.

 

Now that is interesting!

How does the military do it? And even the oil and gas companies?! - Could you expound on that? Sounds like a contradictio in adjecto. 

(Wouldn't it be better for nature leaving the fossile fuels where they are, instead of harvesting them? Not even going into shallow harvesting here.)
  
I am short on details for the military.   But let's back up and think about carbon emission reductions in the broader context.

1.  Carbon emissions and deadly small particulate matter are highly correlated. To some extent, both types of emissions are driven by the volume of fuel consumed.

2.  Fuel is expensive.  If you use less or use it more efficiently, then the individual, the company, the government agency, in this case, the US armed forces benefit.

3.  Oil is a strategic resource, no question.  And the military are big consumers.  If the military can reduce use, it means more military bang for the taxpayer buck and it could translate into greater flexibility in the field that could prove a tactical advantage.

Oil & gas exploration and production companies face a strong incentive, like other companies, to reduce expenditures, including expenditures on energy.  If instead of relying on a diesel-generator at a remote well site, the company is able to switch some of the electrical demand to less polluting co-produced natural gas  or solar power or some combination; the company saves money and emissions are reduced. 

Moreover, oil and gas have faced increased scrutiny since the BP Macondo well disaster in the Gulf of Mexico.  Social license is key to getting anything done.  Resource companies in general have a tremendous incentive to green-virtue signal.  That is best done through concrete acts.

Take Gran Tierra Energy that operates in the Putumayo basin in southern Colombia adjacent to the border with Ecuador.   It is buying several hundred  modern, efficient, wood burning stoves to give to the folks living in the country side close to some of the operations.  This will reduce wood use, deforestation, emissions both carbon and particulate matter.   

I know, I know.  Smoky wood fires are romantic.  Long-term exposure can be very unhealthy.  

The key to progress is to get folks to use less through carbon taxes and cap 'n trade regimes.  I favour emphasizing carbon taxes.  People ideally should use cars less.  Self-propel more.  
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 5:00pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

 often cited as factual (in these parts) Steele Dossier
 

I searched the forum for "dossier" and find that most of the mentions of the word are in posts by you. Earlier posts mention it, but since this is about the 3rd or 4th time in a week you've accused us of citing it as the Final Proof, I thought I should just go ahead and call bullshit. Posts from a year+ ago talk about it being debunked or not and I thought it was all pretty well settled that the info in it was very raw hearsay, some true, some not, a lot unknowable. So anyway, you can stop accusing us of some sort of groupthink pro-Dossier cabal.

For myself, I sort of wondered why in the last few weeks, the Steele Dossier was all of a sudden the Most Important Thing In The World among the GOP. Ah, that explains it: There's a book out, and Devin Nunes is mentioned. 

Methinks he doth perhaps protest a bit much
 

Steele IIRC has always maintained that the material he gathered into his dossier contained a great deal of unverified reports and rumors. He also stated that his work should be treated as a starting point for any fact-based investigation and not as a summary of supposed facts. I don't recall people posting in this or other threads that Steele's dossier was the gospel truth. Fiona Hill and others in the government regarded the dossier with real skepticism and thought that the Russians had fed Steele some disinformation.

AFAICT Steele's dossier has little to do with Trump, Giuliani and Co.'s attempt to get Ukrainian President to publicly announce an investigation into the Bidens. I'm sure some people like Devin Nunes and his fans would like to ignore the fact that Trump tried to get a foreign country to aid him in his re-election efforts (hence the impeachment inquiry) but those pesky House Democrats just won't stop presenting facts!


FWIW, the co-founders of Fusion GPS (the firm that hired Steele) talk with their New Yorker about their book that defends Steele's work and their own research into Trump.


The Inside Story of Christopher Steele’s Trump Dossier

Early on, Fusion’s probe of Trump was given a huge boost by Wayne Barrett, an investigative reporter for the Village Voice. Barrett, who was suffering from a terminal illness, bequeathed his voluminous files on Trump to the firm. His findings opened up Trump’s past dealings, including tax and bankruptcy problems, potential ties to organized crime, and numerous legal entanglements. They also revealed that Trump had an unusually high number of connections to Russians with questionable backgrounds. As his son Don, Jr., boasted in 2008, Russians “make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.” (Trump denied having any business ties to Russia during his campaign, but, later, his former lawyer Michael Cohen admitted that Trump’s associates were trying to negotiate a deal for him in Moscow at the time. The business angle was one of the subjects on which Steele’s dossier was prescient.)

The more the Fusion team learned, the more alarmed it grew. By the spring of 2016, Simpson and Fritsch write, they were no longer just in it for the money. They were convinced they needed “to do what they could to keep Trump out of the White House.”

It was at this point that they turned to Steele, a former spy who had left his position as the head of M.I.6’s Russia desk to co-found Orbis, a private-investigation firm in London, and whom they had known and trusted from previous engagements.

...


Initially, Steele expected his work with Fusion to be a brief engagement. But his network of Russian sources turned up shocking information. Steele’s first report found that Russia had tried to cultivate Trump by dangling business ventures and had been accumulating blackmail material, including what later came to be known as the pee tape—ostensibly a recording showing prostitutes entertaining Trump by urinating on a hotel bed, at the Moscow Ritz-Carlton, in which the Obamas had previously slept.


...

Despite the fact that the fabled pee tape has never surfaced and Trump immediately denied its existence, Simpson and Fritsch write that Steele remains confident that his reports are neither a fabrication nor the “hoax” of Trump’s denunciations. Trump’s defenders have claimed that Steele fell prey to Russian disinformation, and, therefore, it is he, not Trump, who has been a useful idiot for the Russians. But Steele tells the authors, “These people simply have no idea what they’re talking about.” He emphasizes that his network of sources “is tried and tested” and has “been proven up in many other matters.” He adds, “I’ve spent my entire adult life working with Russian disinformation. It’s an incredibly complex subject that is at the very core of my training and my professional mission.”


...

Simpson and Fritsch acknowledge that several of Steele’s most sensational allegations remain unproven and that others were almost surely wrong, such as his sources’ claim that the Trump fixer Michael Cohen went to Prague during the summer of 2016 to pay off the Democrats’ e-mail hackers.

...

(But) They write that “a spy whose sources get it 70 percent right is considered to be one of the best,” and that, while reporters focussed on the most salacious details, they “tended to miss the central message,” about which they say Steele was largely correct. They note that, in his first report, in June, 2016, Steele warned that Russian election meddling was “endorsed by Putin” and “supported and directed” by him to “sow discord and disunity with the United States itself but more especially within the Transatlantic alliance”—six months before the U.S. intelligence community collectively embraced the same conclusion. Steele also was right, they argue, that “Putin wasn’t merely seeking to create a crisis of confidence in democratic elections. He was actively pulling strings to destroy Hillary Clinton and elect Donald Trump,” an assessment the U.S. intelligence community also came to accept. And they note that, as of September, 2019, U.S. officials confirmed that the C.I.A. had “a human source inside the Russian government during the campaign, who provided information that dovetailed with Steele’s reporting about Russia’s objective of electing Trump and Putin’s direct involvement in the operation.”




Steele himself has responded to IG Horowitz's report, as summarized in this BBC News piece: 

Steele dossier: Ex-British spy rejects Trump inquiry report








Thanks very much, Scott, for digging back into the forum's past posts.
I'm no longer interested in confronting and/or debunking chip-on-the-shoulder posts making unsupported claims. Life's too short and it's goddamned Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanzaa-time in case y'all hadn't noticed.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 4:57pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


I searched the forum for "dossier" and find that most of the mentions of the word are in posts by you. Earlier posts mention it, but since this is about the 3rd or 4th time in a week you've accused us of citing it as the Final Proof, I thought I should just go ahead and call bullshit. Posts from a year+ ago talk about it being debunked or not and I thought it was all pretty well settled that the info in it was very raw hearsay, some true, some not, a lot unknowable. So anyway, you can stop accusing us of some sort of groupthink pro-Dossier cabal.

For myself, I sort of wondered why in the last few weeks, the Steele Dossier was all of a sudden the Most Important Thing In The World among the GOP. Ah, that explains it: There's a book out, and Devin Nunes is mentioned. 

Methinks he doth perhaps protest a bit much
 
Indeed.
R_P

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Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 4:12pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I thought I should just go ahead and call bullshit.
 
In other news, water is wet.
steeler

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Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 4:04pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

 often cited as factual (in these parts) Steele Dossier
 

I searched the forum for "dossier" and find that most of the mentions of the word are in posts by you. Earlier posts mention it, but since this is about the 3rd or 4th time in a week you've accused us of citing it as the Final Proof, I thought I should just go ahead and call bullshit. Posts from a year+ ago talk about it being debunked or not and I thought it was all pretty well settled that the info in it was very raw hearsay, some true, some not, a lot unknowable. So anyway, you can stop accusing us of some sort of groupthink pro-Dossier cabal.

For myself, I sort of wondered why in the last few weeks, the Steele Dossier was all of a sudden the Most Important Thing In The World among the GOP. Ah, that explains it: There's a book out, and Devin Nunes is mentioned. 

Methinks he doth perhaps protest a bit much
 

Plus one.
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 4:00pm



 kurtster wrote:

 often cited as factual (in these parts) Steele Dossier
 

I searched the forum for "dossier" and find that most of the mentions of the word are in posts by you. Earlier posts mention it, but since this is about the 3rd or 4th time in a week you've accused us of citing it as the Final Proof, I thought I should just go ahead and call bullshit. Posts from a year+ ago talk about it being debunked or not and I thought it was all pretty well settled that the info in it was very raw hearsay, some true, some not, a lot unknowable. So anyway, you can stop accusing us of some sort of groupthink pro-Dossier cabal.

For myself, I sort of wondered why in the last few weeks, the Steele Dossier was all of a sudden the Most Important Thing In The World among the GOP. Ah, that explains it: There's a book out, and Devin Nunes is mentioned. 

Methinks he doth perhaps protest a bit much
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 3:31pm

 VV wrote:
Am I wrong but didn’t kurtser quit this thread? He’s been back more times than The Who have played farewell tours.

He’s like a cockroach... turn the light on and... yup, there he is!
 
Yeah, I guess I'm not much different from a dog that keeps chasing cars but never catches one.

But people keep bring up my name, like just now, and I pop in.  On the other hand, earlier I thought that I had something meaningful to bring up, namely pointing out the final debunking of the highly regarded and often cited as factual (in these parts) Steele Dossier, so I did.  Are you a disappointed dossier believer ?

Hey, be like Tom Bodett and just leave the light on ...    {#Whisper}  You can do it even without having an opposable thumb !
R_P

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Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 2:08pm

 westslope wrote:
The US armed forces appear to be taking anthropogenic climate disruption seriously. 
 
Yes and no.
"Yet its climate policy is fundamentally contradictory — confronting the effects of climate change while remaining the largest single institutional consumer of hydrocarbons in the world, a situation it is locked into for years to come because of its dependence on existing aircraft and warships for open-ended operations around the globe."

ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 1:43pm



 Ohmsen wrote:


 westslope wrote:

The US armed forces appear to be taking anthropogenic climate disruption seriously.  

All the oil and gas companies I invest in are taking climate change seriously.   What the hell is wrong with the American voter?   The same question could be asked about many Canadian voters too.

 

Now that is interesting!

How does the military do it? And even the oil and gas companies?! - Could you expound on that? Sounds like a contradictio in adjecto. 

(Wouldn't it be better for nature leaving the fossile fuels where they are, instead of harvesting them? Not even going into shallow harvesting here.)
 

Drilled: This "True Crime Drama about Climate Change" answers way more questions than most of us can think to ask.
Ohmsen

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Location: Valhalla Mists


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 12:54pm



 westslope wrote:

The US armed forces appear to be taking anthropogenic climate disruption seriously.  

All the oil and gas companies I invest in are taking climate change seriously.   What the hell is wrong with the American voter?   The same question could be asked about many Canadian voters too.

 

Now that is interesting!

How does the military do it? And even the oil and gas companies?! - Could you expound on that? Sounds like a contradictio in adjecto. 

(Wouldn't it be better for nature leaving the fossile fuels where they are, instead of harvesting them? Not even going into shallow harvesting here.)
islander

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Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 12:53pm



 buddy wrote:
Time Magazine's Asshole of the Year

....threatened by a 16 year old girl...
 


A minor child deserves privacy and should be kept out of politics. Pamela Karlan, you should be ashamed of your very angry and obviously biased public pandering, and using a child to do it.

— Melania Trump (@FLOTUS) December 4, 2019

<checks date> Yep, officially last weeks position.

westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 12:32pm



 Ohmsen wrote:


.....

As Greta suggests, listening to the scientists, for the #poorStrongMan would mean death for his and the military-industrial complex ideas and all their war- and money-mongering would have to end. 



 

The US armed forces appear to be taking anthropogenic climate disruption seriously.  

All the oil and gas companies I invest in are taking climate change seriously.   What the hell is wrong with the American voter?   The same question could be asked about many Canadian voters too.

Ohmsen

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Location: Valhalla Mists


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 12:15pm



 westslope wrote:


 buddy wrote:
Time Magazine's Asshole of the Year

....threatened by a 16 year old girl...
 
Of course, the Reality TV, celebrity narcissist is just plain jealous.  She is hogging a lot of bandwidth.  Greta is taking up a lot of space between pages 1 and 7.

She appeals on the same level that Trump seeks to appeal:  emotional.  

She threatens what Trump holds dear:  a cheap energy entitlement along with Trump's common sense approach to economic policy.     (Common sense implies anti-science, anti-evidence based policy.)

Trump is worried that people will notice that his man breasts are larger than hers.    There lies the problem with a 16-year old girl with Asperger syndrome.  She does not compete fairly.  Great men like Donald J. Trump need to be protected from such malicious threats.  
 

How else could the 'poor' guy react?! 

Keeping up the narrative excusing billions of future human deaths!

As Greta suggests, listening to the scientists, for the #poorStrongMan would mean death for his and the military-industrial complex ideas and all their war- and money-mongering would have to end. 


westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 10:37am



 buddy wrote:
Time Magazine's Asshole of the Year

....threatened by a 16 year old girl...
 
Of course, the Reality TV, celebrity narcissist is just plain jealous.  She is hogging a lot of bandwidth.  Greta is taking up a lot of space between pages 1 and 7.

She appeals on the same level that Trump seeks to appeal:  emotional.  

She threatens what Trump holds dear:  a cheap energy entitlement along with Trump's common sense approach to economic policy.     (Common sense implies anti-science, anti-evidence based policy.)

Trump is worried that people will notice that his man breasts are larger than hers.    There lies the problem with a 16-year old girl with Asperger syndrome.  She does not compete fairly.  Great men like Donald J. Trump need to be protected from such malicious threats.  
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Dec 12, 2019 - 10:08am

Full Appeals Court Mulls Unprecedented Emoluments Case Against Trump
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