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Trump - sirdroseph - Jul 19, 2019 - 3:00am
 
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Republican Wingnut Freak of the Day - Red_Dragon - Jul 18, 2019 - 7:48pm
 
What's that song - alkemyst - Jul 18, 2019 - 7:24pm
 
Crazy conspiracy theories - black321 - Jul 18, 2019 - 7:14pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - ScottFromWyoming - Jul 18, 2019 - 6:26pm
 
RP App for Android - jarro - Jul 18, 2019 - 5:44pm
 
Little known information...maybe even facts - oldviolin - Jul 18, 2019 - 5:38pm
 
Annoying stuff. not things that piss you off, just annoyi... - ziggytrix - Jul 18, 2019 - 5:22pm
 
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Radio Paradise Comments - Steely_D - Jul 18, 2019 - 12:06pm
 
Outstanding Covers - Copenhagen_Cat - Jul 18, 2019 - 11:02am
 
Immigration - R_P - Jul 18, 2019 - 9:26am
 
What Browser do you use & why? - miamizsun - Jul 18, 2019 - 8:21am
 
Today in History - Prodigal_SOB - Jul 18, 2019 - 8:16am
 
Slide Show Sync - wirefixer - Jul 18, 2019 - 8:16am
 
Republican Party - sirdroseph - Jul 18, 2019 - 4:30am
 
Flower Pictures - yuel - Jul 18, 2019 - 12:52am
 
Counting with Pictures - yuel - Jul 18, 2019 - 12:19am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Jul 17, 2019 - 8:28pm
 
Favorite Computer Utilities - Mac - kcar - Jul 17, 2019 - 3:04pm
 
Tech & Science - miamizsun - Jul 17, 2019 - 1:15pm
 
Travel Tips. - black321 - Jul 17, 2019 - 11:19am
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Jul 17, 2019 - 8:55am
 
The Masked... - oldviolin - Jul 17, 2019 - 8:47am
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - oldviolin - Jul 17, 2019 - 8:33am
 
The Obituary Page - Steely_D - Jul 17, 2019 - 7:45am
 
Things You Thought Today - Coaxial - Jul 17, 2019 - 6:26am
 
What Makes You Sad? - oldviolin - Jul 17, 2019 - 4:39am
 
MusicBee -- music client - gvajda - Jul 17, 2019 - 1:08am
 
New Music - R_P - Jul 16, 2019 - 11:05am
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - ScottFromWyoming - Jul 16, 2019 - 10:41am
 
TED Talks - Proclivities - Jul 16, 2019 - 9:58am
 
Best guitarists - oldviolin - Jul 16, 2019 - 9:25am
 
Lyrics That Remind You of Someone - oldviolin - Jul 16, 2019 - 9:08am
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - ScottFromWyoming - Jul 16, 2019 - 7:07am
 
What Makes You Laugh? - Egctheow - Jul 16, 2019 - 5:57am
 
Books - sirdroseph - Jul 16, 2019 - 5:34am
 
Posting pictures - haresfur - Jul 15, 2019 - 4:18pm
 
Fix My Car - SeriousLee - Jul 15, 2019 - 3:03pm
 
Plugin RP for Volumio - dpozzi - Jul 15, 2019 - 1:14pm
 
FLAC Streaming - dpozzi - Jul 15, 2019 - 1:13pm
 
The Dog House - westslope - Jul 15, 2019 - 10:10am
 
Vinyl for old timer - Copenhagen_Cat - Jul 15, 2019 - 9:11am
 
UK stream - ScottFromWyoming - Jul 15, 2019 - 7:21am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - ColdMiser - Jul 15, 2019 - 4:04am
 
What are you listening to now? - SeriousLee - Jul 14, 2019 - 11:25am
 
Climate Change - miamizsun - Jul 14, 2019 - 11:15am
 
Democratic Party - westslope - Jul 14, 2019 - 9:24am
 
• • • Clownstock • • •  - SeriousLee - Jul 14, 2019 - 6:27am
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Jul 13, 2019 - 10:33pm
 
Pence - R_P - Jul 13, 2019 - 5:56pm
 
• • •  What's For Dinner ? • • •  - oldviolin - Jul 13, 2019 - 4:42pm
 
Nuclear power - saviour or scourge? - miamizsun - Jul 13, 2019 - 2:52pm
 
You might be getting old if...... - Egctheow - Jul 13, 2019 - 2:01pm
 
Protest Songs - rhahl - Jul 13, 2019 - 12:02pm
 
Those Lovable Policemen - R_P - Jul 13, 2019 - 11:50am
 
Are they married yet? YES THEY ARE! - SeriousLee - Jul 13, 2019 - 11:34am
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - oldviolin - Jul 13, 2019 - 11:24am
 
When Yesterday's Over - Copenhagen_Cat - Jul 13, 2019 - 4:54am
 
David Gilmour's guitars on auction last month - Copenhagen_Cat - Jul 13, 2019 - 3:03am
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - black321 - Jul 12, 2019 - 11:21am
 
FLAC stream - redwoodcat - Jul 12, 2019 - 10:33am
 
Once upon a time... - Proclivities - Jul 12, 2019 - 8:19am
 
The Groovy Mix - Coaxial - Jul 11, 2019 - 7:03pm
 
Bear! - Coaxial - Jul 11, 2019 - 6:54pm
 
RP Windows Desktop Notification Applet - BillG - Jul 11, 2019 - 4:33pm
 
Dialing 1-800-Manbird - oldviolin - Jul 11, 2019 - 3:30pm
 
Football, soccer, futbol, calcio... - black321 - Jul 11, 2019 - 2:16pm
 
Things that piss me off - Copenhagen_Cat - Jul 11, 2019 - 1:37pm
 
Dancing Bananas !!! - Proclivities - Jul 11, 2019 - 11:19am
 
Great album covers - Copenhagen_Cat - Jul 11, 2019 - 10:17am
 
Derplahoma Questions and Points of Interest - Red_Dragon - Jul 11, 2019 - 9:43am
 
What music does your cat/dog like - or hate? - Copenhagen_Cat - Jul 11, 2019 - 3:19am
 
Gardeners Corner - Steely_D - Jul 10, 2019 - 8:44pm
 
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sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 19, 2019 - 3:00am



 Steely_D wrote:


 

Just the idea that he tolerates racists (never mind encouraging their beliefs or encouraging violence) so as to "win" the office of the President is disgusting. Is that negated by a rising stock market, which only benefits the wealthy? I suppose everyone has their own answer to that.




 

I think this is the overriding view of where I am at.  I was really encouraged by his rawness and complete disregard for party machinations and I also like his combative approach to dealing with regimes that only respond to this type of dialogue however this same combative approach to our own citizens is something that is most assuredly not needed in a time where we should be discarding the 2 party system and evolving into a more complex and individualistic representation that reflects a much more complex and individualistic society.  He is winning, but at far too great a cost.  You, I and kurster are not enemies or opponents.  We are individuals with nuanced opinions, some of which we agree and others we do not, but in the end all American citizens are on the same team and that is the notion Trump is damaging and the most dangerous threat to the Republic.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 8:49pm



 kurtster wrote:
Steely_D wrote:
...
Just the idea that he tolerates racists ...

  
So if we don't tolerate people we may disagree with, then what ?  

Take them out and shoot them ?  

Burn down their houses ?  

Lock them up ?
 
Promote them as having a legitimate opinion?

Encourage their "uniqueness"?

Teach our families that this is behavior to be tolerated, like eating pizza with a fork?

Elect them to public office so they steer the country in the direction they and their minority want?

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 7:08pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Disavow them?

Don't give them a platform to speak?

Tell them to STFU?

Don't vote for them?

Or, what you said. We'll get to that point sooner or later, it's what you all want.

 
oh, snap
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 6:40pm

 kurtster wrote:
Steely_D wrote:
...
Just the idea that he tolerates racists ...
  
So if we don't tolerate people we may disagree with, then what ?  

Take them out and shoot them ?  

Burn down their houses ?  

Lock them up ?
 
Demonize them on live TV?
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 6:33pm



 kurtster wrote:
Steely_D wrote:
...
Just the idea that he tolerates racists ...

  
So if we don't tolerate people we may disagree with, then what ?  

Take them out and shoot them ?  

Burn down their houses ?  

Lock them up ?
 
Disavow them?

Don't give them a platform to speak?

Tell them to STFU?

Don't vote for them?

Or, what you said. We'll get to that point sooner or later, it's what you all want.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 6:30pm

Steely_D wrote:
...
Just the idea that he tolerates racists ...

  
So if we don't tolerate people we may disagree with, then what ?  

Take them out and shoot them ?  

Burn down their houses ?  

Lock them up ?
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 4:29pm



 kurtster wrote:

I don't think so.  I think he learned a lesson on this one.

I hope that this is the first and last time for this chant.

This is much different from lock her up.  At least in my mind.
 
My prejudice is that he might say something about it now, but the real test of his mettle is 1) did it bother him when he heard it and 2) then what did he do?

After the damage is done it's easy to try to back it down, but everyone saw him not repudiate it when it happened. And, it was consonant with something he himself has written ("go back to their countries"). So denying it now seems contrived, particularly if contextualized with his other acts ("fine people on both sides").

Just the idea that he tolerates racists (never mind encouraging their beliefs or encouraging violence) so as to "win" the office of the President is disgusting. Is that negated by a rising stock market, which only benefits the wealthy? I suppose everyone has their own answer to that.

This video should be 5 seconds long at the most. Sadly, it is not and shouldn't be forgotten. Particularly when the MAGA folks find themselves on the receiving end of some boom boom boom, right? Trump endorsed that sort of thing.



R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 3:59pm

The way they speak so badly of our country. They want to demolish our Constitution, weaken our military, eliminate the values that built this magnificent country. You have to look at some of their recent comments, which you never talked about. When you see the four Congresswomen. Oh, isn't that lovely? I'll give you just a couple. I have pages and pages, but we don't want to bore you. We wouldn't want to go too long, but we have to give a couple because that's the great thing about live television, they can't cut it.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 3:43pm


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 3:38pm

 kcar wrote:
Apparently Trump is now trying to disavow those chants and claim that he tried to stop them. I'm sure he'll just wait a bit and encourage them again, once the initial anger dies down. WashPo is reporting that he pulled the same temporary-disavowal trick with the "Lock her up!" chants.
 
I don't think so.  I think he learned a lesson on this one.

I hope that this is the first and last time for this chant.

This is much different from lock her up.  At least in my mind.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 12:02pm



 kcar wrote:
Apparently Trump is now trying to disavow those chants and claim that he tried to stop them. I'm sure he'll just wait a bit and encourage them again, once the initial anger dies down...
 
Traditional mob behavior. "I didn't shoot anyone. I'm not responsible for what Guido did."

Of course, it's also a sign of weakness and cowardice. "Hey, I couldn't have stopped them."

After all, no one can stand up to...wait. Remember



kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 11:40am

Apparently Trump is now trying to disavow those chants and claim that he tried to stop them. I'm sure he'll just wait a bit and encourage them again, once the initial anger dies down. WashPo is reporting that he pulled the same temporary-disavowal trick with the "Lock her up!" chants.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 10:08am


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 8:28am



 steeler wrote:
To those Trump supporters who protest being associated with repugnant remarks of the President and the equally repugnant call-and-response chants of those at his rallies, I say it is well-past time to disassociate yourselves and reject these tactics.

It is not funny nor fun to chant about sending a political opponent to jail.

It is not funny nor fun to chant about sending a political opponent back to her country of origin.

A political rally for a sitting President (or a candidate for President) should not mirror the old Jerry Springer show. Our politics at the highest level should not mirror a reality TV show.

These truths should be self evident. Sadly, it appears they are not.

Here we are now, entertain us
 

I heard some snippet of his speech this morning, and one of his quips was something like, "They want to tell us how to run the country." *cough* That's their fucking job, Don. 
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 8:24am

To those Trump supporters who protest being associated with repugnant remarks of the President and the equally repugnant call-and-response chants of those at his rallies, I say it is well-past time to disassociate yourselves and reject these tactics.

It is not funny nor fun to chant about sending a political opponent to jail.

It is not funny nor fun to chant about sending a political opponent back to her country of origin.

A political rally for a sitting President (or a candidate for President) should not mirror the old Jerry Springer show. Our politics at the highest level should not mirror a reality TV show.

These truths should be self evident. Sadly, it appears they are not.

Here we are now, entertain us
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 4:08am

 kcar wrote:


 sirdroseph wrote:


 kcar wrote:


 


 Do you have concerns that Trump is making divisions in this country worse and destroying Americans' faith in their government? 
 
I share your concerns regarding Trump's insistence on heightening divisions however destroying implies there is something to destroy.  That faith in government ship sailed waaaaaay before Trump.

Edit: Irony is that the Socialist leaning candidates have too much faith in government.
 
Your notion that Americans' have no faith in their government is at least as old as I am. Didn't it disappear with the Kennedy assassination? Or the Vietnam War? Or Nixon's resignation? Or the Iran-Contra scandal? Perhaps 9/11 and the Iraq War. What about the Great Recession? Or, hey, Trump's election. 

Americans complain a lot about their federal government but they still look to it for protection and help. That means they invest time and money into keeping it running and trying to get it to do the right things. We could do far worse than the American government...for the most part. Under Trump, as I see it, it's turned into a kleptocracy. Still, your cynicism doesn't do anyone any good. 

You should seriously think about supporting the "Socialist leaning candidates" or some of their more moderate Democratic counterparts because the American government is being turned against and taken from people like you. Unless you're in the 0.1%, sirdroseph. 
 
Naw I'm good, thanks for asking though.  I would consider Biden though, he is smarmy, fake and a bit of a perv but he would hardly be the first or the last President to have those qualities.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 3:53am



 sirdroseph wrote:


 kcar wrote:


 






 Do you have concerns that Trump is making divisions in this country worse and destroying Americans' faith in their government? 


 
I share your concerns regarding Trump's insistence on heightening divisions however destroying implies there is something to destroy.  That faith in government ship sailed waaaaaay before Trump.

Edit: Irony is that the Socialist leaning candidates have too much faith in government.

 


Your notion that Americans' have no faith in their government is at least as old as I am. Didn't it disappear with the Kennedy assassination? Or the Vietnam War? Or Nixon's resignation? Or the Iran-Contra scandal? Perhaps 9/11 and the Iraq War. What about the Great Recession? Or, hey, Trump's election. 

Americans complain a lot about their federal government but they still look to it for protection and help. That means they invest time and money into keeping it running and trying to get it to do the right things. We could do far worse than the American government...for the most part. Under Trump, as I see it, it's turned into a kleptocracy. Still, your cynicism doesn't do anyone any good. 

You should seriously think about supporting the "Socialist leaning candidates" or some of their more moderate Democratic counterparts because the American government is being turned against and taken from people like you. Unless you're in the 0.1%, sirdroseph. 



sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 2:39am



 kcar wrote:


 






 Do you have concerns that Trump is making divisions in this country worse and destroying Americans' faith in their government? 


 
I share your concerns regarding Trump's insistence on heightening divisions however destroying implies there is something to destroy.  That faith in government ship sailed waaaaaay before Trump.

Edit: Irony is that the Socialist leaning candidates have too much faith in government.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 18, 2019 - 2:18am



 Steely_D wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

That is not a good thing. 

Unless she has broken immigration laws, then let the chips fall where they may.
 

If she has broken the laws, then let's say it and prosecute.
If she hasn't broken the laws, then let's not imply it.

Kinda like Obama "not a citizen" or Trump "raped a teenager." Let's see the proof before we start thinking it's true.
 

Ilhan Omar is a naturalized citizen. The US government has to determine whether a naturalized citizen has behaved in certain ways before it can proceed with denaturalization and deportation: 

https://www.david-ware.com/blo...


The Justice Department under Trump, however, has increased the number of denaturalization cases it's bringing forward: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...


Ilhan Omar has not done anything to warrant her denaturalization and deportation. As far as I can tell, most of the controversy surrounding her has to do with remarks she made claiming that Americans' loyalty to Israel was due to money distributed by pro-Israel lobbyists. (Forgive me if I'm missing some other point of controversy. I've not been following this matter). 

The Democratic party condemned her remarks. The House of Reps passed a resolution in early March condemning "hateful expressions of intolerance" which presumably included Omar's remarks. 


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0...


Omar apologized for her remarks in February, before the House resolution passed. 


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and...



Trump's claim that the "dangerous, militant hard left" of the Democratic party is destructive and America-hating just fans the flames of bigotry. The crowd's chant of "Send her back" were just echoes of Trump's earlier tweet: “Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done.” 

What a shame we can't send back Trump whose grandfather emigrated from a country that started two world wars and committed genocide on an industrial scale. But I digress...

Trump is clearly going to use anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim and anti-black sentiment amongst Republicans in order to get re-election. Chants of "Send her back!" at his rallies may be just from a crowd feeling its oats but there are going to be moments far worse than this.  Trump's repeating that there's a rumor that Omar married her brother is one sign of that descent.

Kurt, you wrote 



I would think that we all make compromises and decisions regarding who has the best thoughts on what is important to one's self and hitch our wagons to the one(s) we agree with the most, even though it may be only 50% or even less. It could be because he / she is the only one who is even giving lip service to what is important to you. But that is the game we are playing.



What would Trump have to say or do to lose your support? Do you think his bigotry and encouragement of hatred and intolerance are things you can accept and ignore because Trump is fighting against immigration and China? Do you have concerns that Trump is making divisions in this country worse and destroying Americans' faith in their government? 

I'm not trying to condemn you or cast you as a villain. I'm just asking whether you as a fan of Trump have concerns about what Trump is doing to this country and its social fabric in order to keep the support of his base. 
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 17, 2019 - 11:28pm



 kurtster wrote:



I agree with you.
 


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