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miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2021 - 2:08pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


The funny thing about restaurants is that the customers rarely acknowledge that they're really not just paying for the food, but everything good about dining out. This might be a good system for providing quick and easy food choices but it won't supplant the experience of a restaurant and —just as with food trucks— people will balk at paying sit-down restaurant prices for anything on a paper plate.

flippy!

Lazy8

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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2021 - 1:15pm

 R_P wrote:
Until you build a resupply robot, they'll be feeding & cleaning the machines.

Yes...several of them.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2021 - 12:30pm

Not sure about a Michelin star joint, where you expect the human experience...but for chains, automation is only increasing.

The New York Times had a story the other day about how there is "a growing number of restaurant and hotel owners who are turning to robotics during this labor shortage. Robots don’t call in sick, don’t request raises and do jobs, like frying and cleaning, that workers don’t like.

"Indeed, many robotics companies, like Miso Robotics, Bear Robotics, Peanut Robotics, Knightscope, SoftBank Robotics and Makr Shakr, say they’ve seen huge spikes in inquiries for their robots since the pandemic hit."

And the Boston Globe had a piece morning about Sweetgreen's $50 million acquisition of Spyce, the Boston restaurant startup that uses automation to prepare meals. Sweetgreen's goal is "to integrate the Spyce’s technology in its restaurants so that it can 'serve its food with even better quality, consistency and efficiency'."


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Nov 2, 2021 - 12:00pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

For people whose labor has very little value it means they don't get to work. At all.


Until you build a resupply robot, they'll be feeding & cleaning the machines.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2021 - 11:23am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Sounds like a lot of tech overhead to produce something that is inherently simple. The biggest stumbling block to getting a restaurant up and running is going through the regulatory hoops. In places where regulations are lax or non-existent kitchens can be extremely simple and efficient. My favourite was a guy near the yacht harbor in Hong Kong. Had 40 folding chairs and managed to serve the entire place from one wok. Absolutely delicious. But you can find the same principle (at least you could.. haven't been back in a long time) all over Asia.

Yes, and with a less burdensome regulatory environment you could find that here too.
These guys will need to sell a lot of food to cover the costs of one automated food factory. At a guess at least ten year's labor for a half-way competent chef.
So probably the biggest drawcard will not be their low cost, but the standardised quality which people seem to want to pay a bit extra for. Beats me why. Variety is half the attraction.

You need to sell a lot of food to recoup the cost of building a conventional restaurant too, but the operating costs for this approach are much lower.

Adventurous eaters (and I count myself among them) generally seek variety, but I confess there have been times when, pressed for time and low on funds, I opted for a sure-thing fast food. I may have had a transcendentally-fabulous grilled cheese sandwich at the mom&pop shop, but more likely it wouldn't have beaten the corporate formula.

This is basically a glorified vending machine. A less radical change with lower investment is automating existing kitchens. It's already happening at the point of sale, and the kitchen itself isn't far behind.


ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2021 - 10:49am

 Lazy8 wrote:

High labor costs (whether from market conditions or mandates) are really good for people like me, who design automation.

For people whose labor has very little value it means they don't get to work. At all.

Stanford engineers team up with Michelin-star chef to build modular restaurants




The funny thing about restaurants is that the customers rarely acknowledge that they're really not just paying for the food, but everything good about dining out. This might be a good system for providing quick and easy food choices but it won't supplant the experience of a restaurant and —just as with food trucks— people will balk at paying sit-down restaurant prices for anything on a paper plate.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2021 - 10:44am

 Lazy8 wrote:
High labor costs (whether from market conditions or mandates) are really good for people like me, who design automation. For people whose labor has very little value it means they don't get to work. At all.

Stanford engineers team up with Michelin-star chef to build modular restaurants

 
Sounds like a lot of tech overhead to produce something that is inherently simple. The biggest stumbling block to getting a restaurant up and running is going through the regulatory hoops. In places where regulations are lax or non-existent kitchens can be extremely simple and efficient. My favourite was a guy near the yacht harbor in Hong Kong. Had 40 folding chairs and managed to serve the entire place from one wok. Absolutely delicious. But you can find the same principle (at least you could.. haven't been back in a long time) all over Asia.

These guys will need to sell a lot of food to cover the costs of one automated food factory. At a guess at least ten year's labor for a half-way competent chef.
So probably the biggest drawcard will not be their low cost, but the standardised quality which people seem to want to pay a bit extra for. Beats me why. Variety is half the attraction.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2021 - 10:22am

High labor costs (whether from market conditions or mandates) are really good for people like me, who design automation.

For people whose labor has very little value it means they don't get to work. At all.

Stanford engineers team up with Michelin-star chef to build modular restaurants


Ohmsen

Ohmsen Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 6:12am

 westslope wrote:

Some self-styled libertarians are like that.   Most are not.  Most embrace rules-based markets.  Most understand that imposing negative externalities on others is not cool.


Objection, yer honor! Because, new ways to loot are constantly sought (and found!) with the goal of maximizing the aspects of natural assets that are deemed by a company to be profitable.
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 13, 2021 - 2:27pm

 kurtster wrote:
...

The era of JIT (just in time) is pretty much done for now even though there is Amazon. I'm talking about the manufacturing supply chain for raw materials.

....

Inventory costs will be just as expensive in the future as they have been in the past.   JIT is not going anywhere.  In a similar fashion, large, dense cities are not going anywhere.

Current supply chain issues are real and have been exacerbated by ultra-stimulative monetary policy.  As the Federal Reserve is signalling an end to bond purchases sometime in mid-2022, this situation will continue for a while.   The Federal Reserve should have started 'tapering' in the first half of 2021.

This pedal to the floor fiscal and monetary policy stances will help drive gasoline and diesel prices to what many might consider 'painful' levels.  I wonder if this will politically hurt Biden and the Democrats. 

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2021 - 2:07pm

 black321 wrote:
Good easy to digest piece on the supply chain issue.
It's mostly about the shift in demand from services to goods, and the lack of truckers.  (not biden, or heaven forbid, trump).
I like the comment about maybe it's not so bad for us to learn that you can't always (immediately) get what you want.

 
A very good piece.  It just hints about how deep the trucking issues are though.  Besides the driver shortage, there are also new / replacement truck shortages as well.  Also, the railroads are nearly maxed out as well.  Besides the lack of box cars and people to load and unload them.  The rails themselves are congested.  Especially in the center of the country with tank cars taking crude and other chemicals from Canada, the Dakota's and nearby regions down to the refineries in Texas and Louisiana.  And all those empty tank cars going north to get reloaded ...  something like a pipeline would be nice to have instead.  And safer, too.

But the truck driver shortage is the most daunting problem and there has been a major shortage for at least 10 years that I know of.  It is hardly a new one.

And if you listened to Biden today with his magical pronouncements of getting things going 27 / 7, other than the ports, things have been moving 27 / 7 for the past several decades.  He's just going to start things that have long been underway already.  Long distance and dedicated trucks run all night long, because of the lighter non commercial traffic and also to be waiting at a dock in the morning to be unloaded and resorted at a local warehouse for the next leg of their final journey to the shelves.  We have all heard about the gasoline tanker driver shortage, right ?  Well besides the random drug testing involved which I have mentioned, these drivers and others who haul haz mats, they also have to pass an FBI background check.  I doubt many know about that part and I have never brought it up before.  I used to have tanker and haz mat endorsements on my CDL but let them lapse when this requirement came out about 10 or 15 years ago.  Not because of any problems, but why bother since it was unlikely that I would be ever driving any of that stuff ever again.  So why go through the hassle ?

And regarding efficiency, UPS did a major routing study over 10 to 20 years ago designed to keep their delivery trucks always rolling and not stuck at red lights and traffic bottlenecks by eliminating as many left hand turns on routes as possible. KISS.

The era of JIT (just in time) is pretty much done for now even though there is Amazon.  I'm talking about the manufacturing supply chain for raw materials.

And one more thing ... I recently heard that China has a huge energy shortage problem with electrical energy generation.  Factories are being shut down for a day or two a week on a rotating basis because of this.  This is a direct result of a global coal shortage and China's extreme investment in coal fired generating plants.  Something the USA is said to have a 600 year supply of last number I heard.  Not to mention a whole sh*t load of clean burning natural gas, which the price of has doubled since Biden took office.  Winter is going to be real expensive trying to stay warm this year.
oldviolin

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Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2021 - 1:11pm

 miamizsun wrote:
paraphrasing:

what about inflation?
just randomly firehose $50 quadrillion all over the place
problem solved

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miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2021 - 11:48am

paraphrasing:

what about inflation?
just randomly firehose $50 quadrillion all over the place
problem solved

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 10:03am

 Ohmsen wrote:


Some good food for thought to me, WS. 

For libertarians, the market would rule it all, up to a point, where whole nations are bordered on starvation, 'cause the bread or rice prices go up so high, they have nothing to eat anymore. - Phew..

Some self-styled libertarians are like that.   Most are not.  Most embrace rules-based markets.  Most understand that imposing negative externalities on others is not cool.

Ohmsen

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Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 8:19am

 westslope wrote:

SirD:

The democratic socialists in northern Europe seem to understand freemarket economics better than most.   The socio-economic outcomes are outstanding.

If so-called conservatives (Canada, USA and many, many other countries) actually understood freemarket economics, they would not support half the policies they do.  

For cathartic purposes, I sometimes like to imagine North American conservatives as having large posters of Salvador Allende, Hugo Chavez, Nicolas Maduro and Robert Mugabe up on the wall.   That thought came to me many times while contemplating the economic policies of former president Donald J. Trump.   

The bigger problem in the USA in particular, is that the term 'economics' means different things to different people.  To some it means broad, collective, social economic outcomes.  To others, it means favouring special interest outcomes or just simply outcomes for me, myself and I.    Possessive individualism and the 'freedom' call often translate into the 'economics of narcissism'.  



Some good food for thought to me, WS. 

For libertarians, the market would rule it all, up to a point, where whole nations are bordered on starvation, 'cause the bread or rice prices go up so high, they have nothing to eat anymore. - Phew..
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 12, 2021 - 7:20am

Good easy to digest piece on the supply chain issue.
It's mostly about the shift in demand from services to goods, and the lack of truckers.  (not biden, or heaven forbid, trump).
I like the comment about maybe it's not so bad for us to learn that you can't always (immediately) get what you want.




westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 5, 2021 - 7:39am

The Marxist-Keynesian Republicans are standing fast on the debt limit.

Are the Marxist Republicans on to something?  
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 2, 2021 - 10:01am

SirD:

The democratic socialists in northern Europe seem to understand freemarket economics better than most.   The socio-economic outcomes are outstanding.

If so-called conservatives (Canada, USA and many, many other countries) actually understood freemarket economics, they would not support half the policies they do.  

For cathartic purposes, I sometimes like to imagine North American conservatives as having large posters of Salvador Allende, Hugo Chavez, Nicolas Maduro and Robert Mugabe up on the wall.   That thought came to me many times while contemplating the economic policies of former president Donald J. Trump.   

The bigger problem in the USA in particular, is that the term 'economics' means different things to different people.  To some it means broad, collective, social economic outcomes.  To others, it means favouring special interest outcomes or just simply outcomes for me, myself and I.    Possessive individualism and the 'freedom' call often translate into the 'economics of narcissism'.  
sirdroseph

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Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 2, 2021 - 3:21am

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 1, 2021 - 12:40pm



Democrats Pursue Europe’s Welfare State on American-Style Taxes

Biden’s agenda further severs the connection between government benefits and the obligation to pay for them


By Greg Ip  Updated Sept. 29, 2021 2:15 pm ET, Wall Street Journal, gated.

Pasted bit:

Led by President Biden, Democrats seek to emulate the comprehensive welfare states common in Western Europe, without the high taxes Europeans routinely pay. Under the Democrats’ proposal, 90% of American households would either pay less or the same taxes, according to an analysis released Tuesday by the Tax Policy Center. The richest 1% would pay all of the net new taxes levied next year.
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