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Radio Paradise Comments - Coaxial - Apr 8, 2020 - 5:12am
 
Economix - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Apr 8, 2020 - 4:13am
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - Proclivities - Apr 8, 2020 - 4:01am
 
John Prine - Paradise - Peabody Energy on verge of Ch... - Proclivities - Apr 8, 2020 - 3:51am
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Apr 8, 2020 - 1:08am
 
Trump - R_P - Apr 8, 2020 - 12:01am
 
M.A.G.A. - R_P - Apr 7, 2020 - 11:46pm
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - R_P - Apr 7, 2020 - 10:53pm
 
COVID-19 - R_P - Apr 7, 2020 - 10:19pm
 
The Obituary Page - Red_Dragon - Apr 7, 2020 - 7:34pm
 
Trump Lies - R_P - Apr 7, 2020 - 6:02pm
 
How are you coping/dealing with the crisis? - kurtster - Apr 7, 2020 - 3:58pm
 
Amazing animals! - kcar - Apr 7, 2020 - 3:30pm
 
What Makes You Laugh? - kcar - Apr 7, 2020 - 3:02pm
 
The Moon - Antigone - Apr 7, 2020 - 2:30pm
 
What Did You Do Today? - Steely_D - Apr 7, 2020 - 1:56pm
 
Counting with Pictures - jahgirl8 - Apr 7, 2020 - 12:31pm
 
NASA & other news from space - miamizsun - Apr 7, 2020 - 8:44am
 
Baseball, anyone? - Red_Dragon - Apr 7, 2020 - 8:02am
 
Bad News / Good News - miamizsun - Apr 7, 2020 - 6:44am
 
Radiohead - miamizsun - Apr 7, 2020 - 6:37am
 
Chicken your way - jahgirl8 - Apr 6, 2020 - 9:32pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - ScottN - Apr 6, 2020 - 8:33pm
 
Things You Thought Today - jahgirl8 - Apr 6, 2020 - 7:00pm
 
Favorite Scriptures...Leave Pontificating at the Door - jahgirl8 - Apr 6, 2020 - 6:29pm
 
Let Him Swing? - jahgirl8 - Apr 6, 2020 - 5:14pm
 
Urban Chickens - jahgirl8 - Apr 6, 2020 - 5:04pm
 
Fake News*  ?  ! - kcar - Apr 6, 2020 - 4:33pm
 
Questions. - jahgirl8 - Apr 6, 2020 - 4:00pm
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Apr 6, 2020 - 3:13pm
 
Way Cool Video - miamizsun - Apr 6, 2020 - 9:40am
 
Surfing! - miamizsun - Apr 6, 2020 - 9:34am
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - Blackbirds - Apr 6, 2020 - 3:07am
 
Australia - R_P - Apr 5, 2020 - 8:28pm
 
Canada - R_P - Apr 5, 2020 - 6:00pm
 
• • • BRING OUT YOUR DEAD • • •  - oldviolin - Apr 5, 2020 - 5:09pm
 
Windows app: how to change stream/channel? - BillG - Apr 5, 2020 - 3:33pm
 
Bob Dylan - Steely_D - Apr 5, 2020 - 2:11pm
 
Poetry Forum - ScottN - Apr 5, 2020 - 12:04pm
 
what the hell, miamizsun? - miamizsun - Apr 5, 2020 - 8:25am
 
April Fool's Day - haresfur - Apr 4, 2020 - 7:46pm
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Apr 4, 2020 - 7:00pm
 
What can you hear right now? - haresfur - Apr 4, 2020 - 4:35pm
 
Name My Band - haresfur - Apr 4, 2020 - 4:34pm
 
Amazon Prime Members - Free Streaming of Selected Movies ... - Isabeau - Apr 4, 2020 - 3:42pm
 
Embedding Tweets - miamizsun - Apr 4, 2020 - 12:22pm
 
kurtster's quiet vinyl - kurtster - Apr 4, 2020 - 11:53am
 
Today in History - hayduke2 - Apr 4, 2020 - 8:00am
 
The war on funk is over! - R_P - Apr 4, 2020 - 12:27am
 
Earthquake in So. Cal - kurtster - Apr 3, 2020 - 10:09pm
 
RightWingNutZ - Coaxial - Apr 3, 2020 - 8:52pm
 
Apropos of Nothing - miamizsun - Apr 3, 2020 - 8:44pm
 
Republican Party - KarmaKarma - Apr 3, 2020 - 8:07pm
 
Country Up The Bumpkin - Coaxial - Apr 3, 2020 - 7:10pm
 
What Are You Grateful For? - jahgirl8 - Apr 3, 2020 - 6:42pm
 
Photos you have taken of yourself - jahgirl8 - Apr 3, 2020 - 6:33pm
 
Fox Spews - R_P - Apr 3, 2020 - 6:09pm
 
How you coping/dealing with the crisis? - Red_Dragon - Apr 3, 2020 - 2:56pm
 
Thanks to BillG & Rebecca! - KTlistening - Apr 3, 2020 - 2:34pm
 
♥ ♥ ♥ Vote For Pie ♥ ♥ ♥ - ScottFromWyoming - Apr 3, 2020 - 1:35pm
 
Things that are just WRONG - Isabeau - Apr 3, 2020 - 1:24pm
 
Graphs, Charts & Maps - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Apr 3, 2020 - 10:07am
 
R.I.P. Bill Withers - westslope - Apr 3, 2020 - 9:54am
 
Art Show - Proclivities - Apr 3, 2020 - 5:20am
 
Derplahoma Questions and Points of Interest - sunybuny - Apr 3, 2020 - 5:12am
 
The alternate universe - BlueHeronDruid - Apr 3, 2020 - 12:26am
 
New Zealand - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Apr 2, 2020 - 11:55pm
 
Last gas price paid? - ScottFromWyoming - Apr 2, 2020 - 10:08pm
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - oldviolin - Apr 2, 2020 - 9:15pm
 
Rhetorical questions - kurtster - Apr 2, 2020 - 8:38pm
 
Flower Pictures - Antigone - Apr 2, 2020 - 5:54pm
 
What Are You Going To Do Today? - BlueHeronDruid - Apr 2, 2020 - 4:46pm
 
songs that ROCK! - rhahl - Apr 2, 2020 - 4:20pm
 
More reggae, less Marley please - rhahl - Apr 2, 2020 - 4:03pm
 
Favorite Quotes - jahgirl8 - Apr 2, 2020 - 3:27pm
 
Index » Internet/Computer » The Web » Economix Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 193, 194, 195  Next
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NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 4:13am

 haresfur wrote:


 kurtster wrote:
just a place holder ...

In the coming weeks and months look for a global coming together to seize Chinese assets held in countries outside of China in an attempt to hold China financially responsible for their criminal actions (a true crime against humanity) that withheld vital information about CV 19 that could have highly reduced the loss of life and the global loss of $30 trillion of wealth.  This would also include the mass nullification of treasury notes of countries that China holds.
 
The world would have been so screwed if China hadn't shared the information they did. I'm sure they screwed up in the beginning but it's not like they knew what they were dealing with like, say, USA at the start of their pandemic. Don't forget you have a president who is justifying his lies because he claims to be trying to encourage people.

 
ditto.  I knew this was coming from you sooner or later Kurtster and it makes me livid.

What in your highly knowledgeable and well-researched opinion did China not do to warn you about a virus that the world scientific community has known about as a high risk for at least four years?

Fact is your government was so far up its own arse to think it was immune from this novel virus and it sat on its hands downplaying the risk until it blew up in their face. And now to blame the failings of your own government on others is a character failing I would despise in a five year old, let alone the leaders of the free world. 

Sure China may have counted their numbers differently, but they bought the world community precious time to prepare and we should be eternally grateful to them. That your government squandered this opportunity lies solely with them. 
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 8, 2020 - 1:58am



 kurtster wrote:
just a place holder ...

In the coming weeks and months look for a global coming together to seize Chinese assets held in countries outside of China in an attempt to hold China financially responsible for their criminal actions (a true crime against humanity) that withheld vital information about CV 19 that could have highly reduced the loss of life and the global loss of $30 trillion of wealth.  This would also include the mass nullification of treasury notes of countries that China holds.
 
The world would have been so screwed if China hadn't shared the information they did. I'm sure they screwed up in the beginning but it's not like they knew what they were dealing with like, say, USA at the start of their pandemic. Don't forget you have a president who is justifying his lies because he claims to be trying to encourage people.

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Apr 7, 2020 - 11:28pm

 kurtster wrote:
just a place holder ...

In the coming weeks and months look for a global coming together to seize Chinese assets held in countries outside of China in an attempt to hold China financially responsible for their criminal actions (a true crime against humanity) that withheld vital information about CV 19 that could have highly reduced the loss of life and the global loss of $30 trillion of wealth.  This would also include the mass nullification of treasury notes of countries that China holds.
 
Pining for globalism...

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 7, 2020 - 10:59pm

just a place holder ...

In the coming weeks and months look for a global coming together to seize Chinese assets held in countries outside of China in an attempt to hold China financially responsible for their criminal actions (a true crime against humanity) that withheld vital information about CV 19 that could have highly reduced the loss of life and the global loss of $30 trillion of wealth.  This would also include the mass nullification of treasury notes of countries that China holds.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Apr 2, 2020 - 10:45pm

American shale producers have launched an aggressive lobbying campaign in support of new sanctions against Saudi Arabia and Russia, urging the White House to compel the oil producing nations to cut output in order to prop up crude prices.

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Apr 2, 2020 - 12:54pm

Share buybacks can create value for shareholders while providing companies financial flexibility that regular dividends (or higher dividends) do not.

Alas, in many cases, share buybacks seem designed to mostly provide shares for senior executive bonuses without expanding/diluting the outstanding number of shares.
Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Apr 2, 2020 - 9:47am



 islander wrote:


 Lazy8 wrote:
haresfur wrote:
Isn't selling stock the proper capitalist way to raise money? What happened to all the stock the companies bought back? They should be able to sell it again. Sure it was a bad investment to buy high and sell low. And the government should get equity in exchange for the bailout.

It's a way to raise money, but it dilutes ownership for all the other stockholders. You do that to raise money for an investment, like expanding the capabilities or markets of a company. The idea is that the company's value will rise with what the money's spent on, making the dilution of ownership a net advantage—you own less of something that's worth more.


Companies also raise money by issuing bonds, which are transferable loans paid over time, or straight-up loans from banks. Both of these are a better deal for the shareholders if the money is just to keep the company on life support.

But yeah f#ck those greedy shareholders! They'll be the second ones up against the wall when the revolution comes, right?

That's your 401K, your pension plan, your retirement savings. If a company sells stock now with the markets tanking those with spare cash to invest (speaking of greedy capitalists) will get a bargain at the expense of all the other greedy capitalists trying to retire without being a burden on their descendants. It's fashionable to deride the stock market as a tool of the upper class but stocks are how ordinary people—non-fabulously-wealthy people—can participate in the success of large enterprises.

Government taking equity stakes in companies is a profoundly bad idea on many levels, as the 20th century proved over and over. For one thing governments have proven to be terrible decision-makers in every industry they've intruded on. There's a reason Sweden divested itself of all the state-owned businesses it once held: it was running them into the ground. Some of them are doing quite well under new ownership, where they were noncompetitive as state enterprises. Some were sold for scrap, having lost too much value to move forward.

It's also a direct conflict of interest: the same government that regulates every move by any player in the auto industry now has a stake in the financial performance of General Motors. What could possibly go wrong with that for Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Tesla...? And what about GM's customers and creditors? Do they get a fair shake, or should they just suck it up when GM screws them?

Companies using profits to buy back stock is driven by tax law. If they disperse profits as dividends it's taxed (for the recipients) as dividend income. If they use that money to buy back stock (and raise the value of remaining stock) that increase is taxed as capital gains, typically a lower rate. If stock buy-backs offend you (and I don't get why they would, but hey it's something corporations do so people opposed to things corporations do on principle can wind their knickers about it) then reform the tax code so paying dividends isn't punished.

 

This is not entirely correct. When a company buys back stock, it doesn't automatically disappear. It can be canceled or retired by the company, but it doesn't have to be. The stock can be re-issued, or given to employees as options or awards.  These don't dilute the value of shares hold by others. It does change the number of shares available on the market, which can affect supply/demand and from that it can change the price.   

I'm neutral on the buyback issue. Companies should be managed by their directors to the best of their abilities with the tools at hand.   I am okay with the .gov setting some rules for the funds they are providing to help these companies - banks and other investors do the same. 
 

This post is jam packed with information usually communicated in stock-speak. Learning a lot from the posts here.
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Apr 2, 2020 - 9:45am



 Lazy8 wrote:
.......
Government taking equity stakes in companies is a profoundly bad idea on many levels, as the 20th century proved over and over. For one thing governments have proven to be terrible decision-makers in every industry they've intruded on. There's a reason Sweden divested itself of all the state-owned businesses it once held: it was running them into the ground. Some of them are doing quite well under new ownership, where they were noncompetitive as state enterprises. Some were sold for scrap, having lost too much value to move forward.

.......

 
In general I agree that government should avoid equity stakes in companies but then there are exceptions.  North American governments bailed out auto companies a few years ago, in part because they are strategically important to the Defence industrial base.    From what I recall, governments actually made positive returns on that investment.

The Canadian federal government bought the TransMountain Pipeline that runs from Alberta to Greater Vancouver because the political risk was too great for private capital and a successful expansion would bring in billions of dollars into the Canadian economy.  Alberta just bought an equity position in the Keystone XL pipeline in order to reduce the political risks shouldered by the pipeline proponent TC Energy.
 
Should new equity positions be part of the response to the economic devastation caused by the pandemic?    Perhaps not. 



islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 2, 2020 - 9:37am



 Lazy8 wrote:
haresfur wrote:
Isn't selling stock the proper capitalist way to raise money? What happened to all the stock the companies bought back? They should be able to sell it again. Sure it was a bad investment to buy high and sell low. And the government should get equity in exchange for the bailout.

It's a way to raise money, but it dilutes ownership for all the other stockholders. You do that to raise money for an investment, like expanding the capabilities or markets of a company. The idea is that the company's value will rise with what the money's spent on, making the dilution of ownership a net advantage—you own less of something that's worth more.


Companies also raise money by issuing bonds, which are transferable loans paid over time, or straight-up loans from banks. Both of these are a better deal for the shareholders if the money is just to keep the company on life support.

But yeah f#ck those greedy shareholders! They'll be the second ones up against the wall when the revolution comes, right?

That's your 401K, your pension plan, your retirement savings. If a company sells stock now with the markets tanking those with spare cash to invest (speaking of greedy capitalists) will get a bargain at the expense of all the other greedy capitalists trying to retire without being a burden on their descendants. It's fashionable to deride the stock market as a tool of the upper class but stocks are how ordinary people—non-fabulously-wealthy people—can participate in the success of large enterprises.

Government taking equity stakes in companies is a profoundly bad idea on many levels, as the 20th century proved over and over. For one thing governments have proven to be terrible decision-makers in every industry they've intruded on. There's a reason Sweden divested itself of all the state-owned businesses it once held: it was running them into the ground. Some of them are doing quite well under new ownership, where they were noncompetitive as state enterprises. Some were sold for scrap, having lost too much value to move forward.

It's also a direct conflict of interest: the same government that regulates every move by any player in the auto industry now has a stake in the financial performance of General Motors. What could possibly go wrong with that for Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Tesla...? And what about GM's customers and creditors? Do they get a fair shake, or should they just suck it up when GM screws them?

Companies using profits to buy back stock is driven by tax law. If they disperse profits as dividends it's taxed (for the recipients) as dividend income. If they use that money to buy back stock (and raise the value of remaining stock) that increase is taxed as capital gains, typically a lower rate. If stock buy-backs offend you (and I don't get why they would, but hey it's something corporations do so people opposed to things corporations do on principle can wind their knickers about it) then reform the tax code so paying dividends isn't punished.

 

This is not entirely correct. When a company buys back stock, it doesn't automatically disappear. It can be canceled or retired by the company, but it doesn't have to be. The stock can be re-issued, or given to employees as options or awards.  These don't dilute the value of shares hold by others. It does change the number of shares available on the market, which can affect supply/demand and from that it can change the price.   

I'm neutral on the buyback issue. Companies should be managed by their directors to the best of their abilities with the tools at hand.   I am okay with the .gov setting some rules for the funds they are providing to help these companies - banks and other investors do the same. 
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 2, 2020 - 9:16am

6.6m jobless claims, by state



https://www.marketwatch.com/story/california-tops-1-million-jobless-claims-in-past-two-weeks-see-which-states-have-suffered-the-most-coronavirus-layoffs-2020-04-02?&siteid=bnbh

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 2, 2020 - 9:14am



 kurtster wrote:
 
no rush on building the oil reserves, but it probably should be done with prices so low.
even if you're a fan of alternative energy, and now may be a good time to rethink how we do energy, i dont think it's the time to play politics with non-core issues. 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 31, 2020 - 4:02pm

 Proclivities wrote:


 kurtster wrote:
It is my understanding that all of the federal money being given to certain corporations is being loaned, not given out as a grant and must be paid back, particularly the airlines, since they are mentioned so often as an example of receiving a government "handout".  Small businesses that meet certain criteria will get SBA loans that will be forgiven if they keep their employees on their payroll and pay them their regular wages, regardless of them working or not an keep them from drawing unemployment benefits.  If these small businesses should do that, the loans they get will be forgiven. 

That is a big difference this time around.  The difference between Wall Street and Main Street.  I am still waiting to file, even though I was told that I could file if I wanted and I would be covered as officially laid off on March 14.  I am giving my little mom and pop family business time to decide whether or not they wish to go this route.

So if anyone wishes to accurately discuss  the Relief Package, do remember the above.
 
I think the details of how much is a "loan" and how much is a "grant" are being worked out depending on which industry, but yes, they are primarily loans as far as I've read.  The 2008-9 bailout of the auto industry was primarily loans (which were paid back) as well.  It was other industries which immediately did stock buy-backs when they got the bail-outs back then, and I think that possibility happening again is what is holding up some of the negotiations.  I haven't paid as much attention given other distractions these days, but there are probably others here who are more informed about the details.
 
Specifically, any money loaned to these corps is forbidden to be used for stock buyback.  Trump insisted.  From day one.

One of the things that twists my britches is that Pelosi blocked Trump from getting any money to top off our Strategic Petroleum Reserve. @$20 bbl, it's beyond stupid not to do so for several reasons.  The least important but biggest duh is that we have been known to sell off some our reserve to bring stability to the world market.  Down the road @$40 bbl, we double our money.  Instead Pelosi wants to eff us, that would be you and me, out a common sense thing to do.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 31, 2020 - 3:55pm

haresfur wrote:
Isn't selling stock the proper capitalist way to raise money? What happened to all the stock the companies bought back? They should be able to sell it again. Sure it was a bad investment to buy high and sell low. And the government should get equity in exchange for the bailout.

It's a way to raise money, but it dilutes ownership for all the other stockholders. You do that to raise money for an investment, like expanding the capabilities or markets of a company. The idea is that the company's value will rise with what the money's spent on, making the dilution of ownership a net advantage—you own less of something that's worth more.

Companies also raise money by issuing bonds, which are transferable loans paid over time, or straight-up loans from banks. Both of these are a better deal for the shareholders if the money is just to keep the company on life support.

But yeah f#ck those greedy shareholders! They'll be the second ones up against the wall when the revolution comes, right?

That's your 401K, your pension plan, your retirement savings. If a company sells stock now with the markets tanking those with spare cash to invest (speaking of greedy capitalists) will get a bargain at the expense of all the other greedy capitalists trying to retire without being a burden on their descendants. It's fashionable to deride the stock market as a tool of the upper class but stocks are how ordinary people—non-fabulously-wealthy people—can participate in the success of large enterprises.

Government taking equity stakes in companies is a profoundly bad idea on many levels, as the 20th century proved over and over. For one thing governments have proven to be terrible decision-makers in every industry they've intruded on. There's a reason Sweden divested itself of all the state-owned businesses it once held: it was running them into the ground. Some of them are doing quite well under new ownership, where they were noncompetitive as state enterprises. Some were sold for scrap, having lost too much value to move forward.

It's also a direct conflict of interest: the same government that regulates every move by any player in the auto industry now has a stake in the financial performance of General Motors. What could possibly go wrong with that for Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Tesla...? And what about GM's customers and creditors? Do they get a fair shake, or should they just suck it up when GM screws them?

Companies using profits to buy back stock is driven by tax law. If they disperse profits as dividends it's taxed (for the recipients) as dividend income. If they use that money to buy back stock (and raise the value of remaining stock) that increase is taxed as capital gains, typically a lower rate. If stock buy-backs offend you (and I don't get why they would, but hey it's something corporations do so people opposed to things corporations do on principle can wind their knickers about it) then reform the tax code so paying dividends isn't punished.

haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 31, 2020 - 2:37pm



 Proclivities wrote:


 kurtster wrote:
It is my understanding that all of the federal money being given to certain corporations is being loaned, not given out as a grant and must be paid back, particularly the airlines, since they are mentioned so often as an example of receiving a government "handout".  Small businesses that meet certain criteria will get SBA loans that will be forgiven if they keep their employees on their payroll and pay them their regular wages, regardless of them working or not an keep them from drawing unemployment benefits.  If these small businesses should do that, the loans they get will be forgiven. 

That is a big difference this time around.  The difference between Wall Street and Main Street.  I am still waiting to file, even though I was told that I could file if I wanted and I would be covered as officially laid off on March 14.  I am giving my little mom and pop family business time to decide whether or not they wish to go this route.

So if anyone wishes to accurately discuss  the Relief Package, do remember the above.
 
I think the details of how much is a "loan" and how much is a "grant" are being worked out depending on which industry, but yes, they are primarily loans as far as I've read.  The 2008-9 bailout of the auto industry was primarily loans (which were paid back) as well.  It was other industries which immediately did stock buy-backs when they got the bail-outs back then, and I think that possibility happening again is what is holding up some of the negotiations.  I haven't paid as much attention given other distractions these days, but there are probably others here who are more informed about the details.
 
Isn't selling stock the proper capitalist way to raise money? What happened to all the stock the companies bought back? They should be able to sell it again. Sure it was a bad investment to buy high and sell low. And the government should get equity in exchange for the bailout. 

Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 31, 2020 - 2:31pm



 kurtster wrote:
It is my understanding that all of the federal money being given to certain corporations is being loaned, not given out as a grant and must be paid back, particularly the airlines, since they are mentioned so often as an example of receiving a government "handout".  Small businesses that meet certain criteria will get SBA loans that will be forgiven if they keep their employees on their payroll and pay them their regular wages, regardless of them working or not an keep them from drawing unemployment benefits.  If these small businesses should do that, the loans they get will be forgiven. 

That is a big difference this time around.  The difference between Wall Street and Main Street.  I am still waiting to file, even though I was told that I could file if I wanted and I would be covered as officially laid off on March 14.  I am giving my little mom and pop family business time to decide whether or not they wish to go this route.

So if anyone wishes to accurately discuss  the Relief Package, do remember the above.
 
I think the details of how much is a "loan" and how much is a "grant" are being worked out depending on which industry, but yes, they are primarily loans as far as I've read.  The 2008-9 bailout of the auto industry was primarily loans (which were paid back) as well.  It was other industries which immediately did stock buy-backs when they got the bail-outs back then, and I think that possibility happening again is what is holding up some of the negotiations.  I haven't paid as much attention given other distractions these days, but there are probably others here who are more informed about the details.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 31, 2020 - 2:15pm

It is my understanding that all of the federal money being given to certain corporations is being loaned, not given out as a grant and must be paid back, particularly the airlines, since they are mentioned so often as an example of receiving a government "handout".  Small businesses that meet certain criteria will get SBA loans that will be forgiven if they keep their employees on their payroll and pay them their regular wages, regardless of them working or not an keep them from drawing unemployment benefits.  If these small businesses should do that, the loans they get will be forgiven. 

That is a big difference this time around.  The difference between Wall Street and Main Street.  I am still waiting to file, even though I was told that I could file if I wanted and I would be covered as officially laid off on March 14.  I am giving my little mom and pop family business time to decide whether or not they wish to go this route.

So if anyone wishes to accurately discuss  the Relief Package, do remember the above.
jahgirl8

jahgirl8 Avatar



Posted: Mar 31, 2020 - 2:14pm

POTUS has the right idea with an infrastructure stimulus!! Nancy and her crew will surely demand their slice of bacon, but with DJT's negotiating skills, anything's possible. The song playing now is perfect to remind me that what we need is the MEDIA but they have such a BAD ATTITUDE. Always. Negative. Downers. No interest in much unless it besmirches POTUS. Worthless lot them propagandists. The few gems who do that job properly barely get the coverage they deserve. Everyone should see a movie called No Safe Spaces. After many months it can be streamed at https://nosafespaces.com/  at least watch the trailer.

Isabeau wrote:


 haresfur wrote:


 Isabeau wrote:


 R_P wrote:
 
 It's an 'economy saving rescue' for corporations and airlines, but its 'socialism' when its for the people.  Same actions, different labels.  The dissonance is staggering.

 

Not like we don't know from the 1930s what works and what doesn't. Support for the poor, and government spending on infrastructure and employment work.
 
Indeed. Did Ozzyland do similar measures at the time or do you know?

 


Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Mar 31, 2020 - 2:00pm



 haresfur wrote:


 Isabeau wrote:


 R_P wrote:
 
 It's an 'economy saving rescue' for corporations and airlines, but its 'socialism' when its for the people.  Same actions, different labels.  The dissonance is staggering.

 

Not like we don't know from the 1930s what works and what doesn't. Support for the poor, and government spending on infrastructure and employment work.
 
Indeed. Did Ozzyland do similar measures at the time or do you know?

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Mar 31, 2020 - 12:07pm

Some investors got so excited, they accidentally invested in the wrong Zoom. Shares in Zoom Technologies soared by more than 1,500% as investors rushed to buy shares in what they thought was the video app company – but was actually a defunct Chinese wireless communications company.

The US Securities and Exchange regulator intervened to suspend trading in Zoom Technologies. Investors may have been confused by Zoom Technologies’ use of the stock market ticker ZOOM, while Zoom Video Communication has the ticker ZM.

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Posted: Mar 27, 2020 - 1:13pm

As Congress Pushes a $2 Trillion Stimulus Package, the “How Will You Pay For It?” Question Is Tossed in the Trash
Throughout the Democratic presidential primary, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren offered a slew of robust proposals to reshape the American economy. Yet the Democratic presidential primary hardly engaged with questions of whether that restructuring was wise, who would benefit, and who would lose. Instead, the debate was dominated in no small part by a single question: “How will you pay for it?”

On Friday, the House of Representatives, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi who regularly dismissed the ideas put forward by Sanders and Warren as unrealistic, waved away that question, preparing to rubber-stamp a $2 trillion Senate package aimed at staving off economic collapse amid the coronavirus pandemic. (...)

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