[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Oct 23, 2020 - 5:51pm
 
Make Scott laugh - Lazy8 - Oct 23, 2020 - 5:31pm
 
Trump - R_P - Oct 23, 2020 - 5:22pm
 
2020 Elections - kcar - Oct 23, 2020 - 4:32pm
 
COVID-19 - R_P - Oct 23, 2020 - 4:07pm
 
Things that piss me off - cc_rider - Oct 23, 2020 - 3:46pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - jarro - Oct 23, 2020 - 3:20pm
 
Among Us - R_P - Oct 23, 2020 - 3:06pm
 
Trump Lies - miamizsun - Oct 23, 2020 - 2:44pm
 
RPeeps I miss. - haresfur - Oct 23, 2020 - 2:32pm
 
China - miamizsun - Oct 23, 2020 - 11:27am
 
What The Hell Buddy? - miamizsun - Oct 23, 2020 - 10:46am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - miamizsun - Oct 23, 2020 - 10:42am
 
Health Care Stories - hayduke2 - Oct 23, 2020 - 9:55am
 
Economix - R_P - Oct 23, 2020 - 9:33am
 
Philosophy (Meaty Metaphysical Munchables!) - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Oct 23, 2020 - 9:00am
 
The Dragons' Roost - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Oct 23, 2020 - 8:55am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - ColdMiser - Oct 23, 2020 - 7:09am
 
Derplahoma Questions and Points of Interest - sunybuny - Oct 23, 2020 - 5:26am
 
Thanks for putting "Favorites" Channel back - chriswep - Oct 23, 2020 - 5:24am
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - buddy - Oct 22, 2020 - 6:39pm
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - Manbird - Oct 22, 2020 - 4:55pm
 
Race in America - R_P - Oct 22, 2020 - 3:42pm
 
Joni Mitchell categorization error - pmrt - Oct 22, 2020 - 11:57am
 
Name My Band - Jester - Oct 22, 2020 - 10:52am
 
Democratic Party - westslope - Oct 22, 2020 - 9:16am
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - oldviolin - Oct 22, 2020 - 8:40am
 
Counting with Pictures - Proclivities - Oct 22, 2020 - 8:34am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Oct 21, 2020 - 9:59pm
 
Rock Movies/Documentaries - ScottFromWyoming - Oct 21, 2020 - 9:37pm
 
Things You Thought Today - jlf778 - Oct 21, 2020 - 5:19pm
 
Radio Paradise is awesome! - jlf778 - Oct 21, 2020 - 5:16pm
 
NASA & other news from space - oldviolin - Oct 21, 2020 - 4:17pm
 
Anti-War - R_P - Oct 21, 2020 - 3:13pm
 
New Music - scrinz - Oct 21, 2020 - 1:01pm
 
Republican Party - R_P - Oct 21, 2020 - 12:39pm
 
You might be getting old if...... - Ohmsen - Oct 21, 2020 - 9:05am
 
Rhetorical questions - oldviolin - Oct 21, 2020 - 8:37am
 
Working from home - rhahl - Oct 21, 2020 - 7:01am
 
How's the weather? - miamizsun - Oct 21, 2020 - 5:05am
 
Live Music - R_P - Oct 20, 2020 - 10:48pm
 
how do you feel right now? - kurtster - Oct 20, 2020 - 7:43pm
 
audiophile - kurtster - Oct 20, 2020 - 7:27pm
 
The Obituary Page - GeneP59 - Oct 20, 2020 - 6:21pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - GeneP59 - Oct 20, 2020 - 6:10pm
 
Supreme Court: Who's Next? - kcar - Oct 20, 2020 - 4:39pm
 
Bolivia - R_P - Oct 20, 2020 - 4:09pm
 
Looting & vandalism isn't protest - KarmaKarma - Oct 20, 2020 - 2:29pm
 
Freedom of speech? - miamizsun - Oct 20, 2020 - 2:18pm
 
Strange signs, marquees, billboards, etc. - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 20, 2020 - 1:04pm
 
Environment - Red_Dragon - Oct 20, 2020 - 1:03pm
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Oct 20, 2020 - 12:49pm
 
Health Care - R_P - Oct 20, 2020 - 8:41am
 
Android app playing same playlist - bevgerry - Oct 20, 2020 - 5:42am
 
kurtster's quiet vinyl - kurtster - Oct 19, 2020 - 9:36pm
 
Quick! I need a chicken... - R_P - Oct 19, 2020 - 4:46pm
 
I have no idea what this thread was about, but let's talk... - miamizsun - Oct 19, 2020 - 9:35am
 
Art Show - Coaxial - Oct 19, 2020 - 5:33am
 
Graphic designers, ho! - Proclivities - Oct 19, 2020 - 5:27am
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Oct 18, 2020 - 3:10pm
 
Feature Request: My Ratings Sort by Date - jarro - Oct 18, 2020 - 2:19pm
 
A "Kinky" Twist - sirdroseph - Oct 18, 2020 - 5:59am
 
New Zealand - oldviolin - Oct 17, 2020 - 8:30pm
 
Small-town news - Antigone - Oct 17, 2020 - 1:35pm
 
Lyrics That Remind You of Someone - oldviolin - Oct 17, 2020 - 7:03am
 
Play the Blues - sirdroseph - Oct 17, 2020 - 4:20am
 
Astronomy! - Red_Dragon - Oct 16, 2020 - 5:40pm
 
It's the economy stupid. - westslope - Oct 16, 2020 - 3:18pm
 
Radio Paradise on multiple Echo speakers via an Alexa Rou... - jarro - Oct 16, 2020 - 1:43pm
 
Alexa skill - not working :( - jarro - Oct 16, 2020 - 1:36pm
 
Climate Change - R_P - Oct 16, 2020 - 10:57am
 
Turkey Sandwiches? Veev Wants to Know What's For Lunch - oldviolin - Oct 16, 2020 - 9:43am
 
RP App in Android Auto: - jwaldrep - Oct 16, 2020 - 9:30am
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - oldviolin - Oct 16, 2020 - 8:52am
 
American Justice - Red_Dragon - Oct 16, 2020 - 7:59am
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » COVID-19 Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 155, 156, 157  Next
Post to this Topic
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 23, 2020 - 4:07pm

Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated
President Trump, a congressman and conspiracy fantasists have repeated the myth. But three kinds of evidence point to more than 218,000 U.S. deaths
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Oct 22, 2020 - 5:13pm

The Pandemic’s Real Toll? 300,000 Deaths, and It’s Not Just From the Coronavirus

A C.D.C. analysis finds that overall death rates have risen, particularly among young adults and people of color.


The coronavirus pandemic caused nearly 300,000 deaths in the United States through early October, federal researchers said on Tuesday.

The new tally includes not only deaths known to have been directly caused by the coronavirus, but also roughly 100,000 fatalities that are indirectly related and would not have occurred if not for the virus.

The study, published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is an attempt to measure “excess deaths” — deaths from all causes that statistically exceed those normally occurring in a certain time period. The total included deaths from Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus, that were misclassified or missed altogether.

Many experts believe this measure tracks the pandemic’s impact more accurately than official Covid-19 death reports do, and they warn that the death toll may continue an inexorable climb if policies are not put in effect to contain the spread.

“This is one of several studies, and the bottom line is there are far more Americans dying from the pandemic than the news reports would suggest,” said Dr. Steve Woolf, director emeritus of the Center on Society and Health at Virginia Commonwealth University, whose own research recently reached similar conclusions about excess deaths.

“We’re likely to reach well over 400,000 excess deaths by the end of the year” if current trends continue, Dr. Woolf said.



R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 22, 2020 - 11:13am

China and U.S. economies diverge over coronavirus response
The United States and China dealt with the spread of the devastating coronavirus pandemic in vastly different ways, and that split is reshaping the global battle between the world’s two leading economies.

About 11 months after the Wuhan outbreak, China’s official GDP numbers this week show not only that the economy is growing, up 4.9 percent for the third quarter from a year earlier, but also that the Chinese are confident enough the virus has been vanquished to go shopping, dine and spend with gusto.

China’s total reported death toll is below 5,000 and new infections are negligible, the result of draconian lockdowns, millions of tests, and strict contact tracing that set the stage for an economic rebound.

“China’s success in containing the virus has allowed its economy to rebound more quickly, and with relatively less policy support, as compared with other large economies,” said former senior U.S. Treasury official Stephanie Segal, a senior fellow at the U.S.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.

In the United States, 221,000 people are dead from COVID-19 after a delayed federal response, partisan battles over mask-wearing and lockdowns, and plenty of public events that do not follow public health guidelines. The country is in the midst of a new wave of infections.

“Obviously the U.S. government bungled it,” said Harry Broadman, a former senior U.S. trade official and managing director with Berkeley Research Group. The singular authority of China’s Communist Party helped Beijing enforce contact tracing and lockdowns, Broadman said. Other democracies, including New Zealand and South Korea, stamped out the virus as China did. (...)

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 22, 2020 - 4:30am

 Lazy8 wrote:
This is long but it's very good.
 

this looks good but i need to know his political affiliation

this way i can automatically deem it fake science or not

could save me an hour

seriously i subscribe to his y/t channel and "this week in virology"  is great stuff (listened to a quite few shows)

just trying to work it in now seems to be bit of a personal challenge

but highly recommended
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 21, 2020 - 8:27pm

This is long but it's very good.

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 21, 2020 - 12:21pm


westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 21, 2020 - 10:19am



 R_P wrote:
 .......
 
Coronavirus: US pandemic death toll likely 50 percent higher than reported
Contributing to the United States' high death toll has been an unusually high mortality rate - more people as a percentage of the population dying of COVID-19 than in other countries with huge outbreaks.

A separate study, also published in JAMA, wanted to find out if that was because the US had an "early surge of cases prior to improvements in prevention and patient management" or  simply had a "poor long-term response".

The University of Pennsylvania researchers found even after the early peak, the US' mortality rate from COVID-19 has remained higher than other OECD countries with outbreaks, such as Italy.
All hail Mammon!
 
Thanks R_P.  Interesting piece.  Pasted bit:

The study found an increase in deaths from dementia and heart disease that followed the same pattern as deaths from the coronavirus. All-cause mortality increased as the virus' second wave began in the US, which the data showed followed early reopenings - lives saved in reduced car accidents, for example, were vastly outnumbered.


Are health outcomes the driver behind high US mortality rates?   All rich western countries have been affected by obesity, sitting epidemic.   The US is the only country where middle aged white men have experienced a decrease in life expectancy.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 21, 2020 - 10:15am



 westslope wrote:


 rgio wrote:


.......

Suicides, overdoses, heart attacks or other issues where people either can't get or delay medical attention. If you want to blame COVID for someone drinking too much and dying, or overdosing out of boredom and/or loniliness, then maybe the deaths are under-counted....but it's a slippery slope and will result in an overstatement of the danger from contracting the virus.

Testing and morbidity comparisons need to be considered carefully.  An increase in the testing should lead to lower morbidity rates for COVID, but it wouldn't impact the excess mortality calculations.

 

Let me be clear.  I am not looking for "blame".   This is an exercise in improved tea-leaf reading in an attempt to arrive at a better understanding.

The virus will cause direct and indirect effects.  Some of the more indirect social effects such as increased substance abuse, increased domestic violence, reduced exercise levels and as a result declines in overall health outcomes do not strike me as a major concern in regards to simply understanding the information that is being generated. 

There appears to be a significant increase in daily C-19 cases while  C-19 deaths are staying relatively low.  

This could be simply the result of medical professionals acquiring through 'learning by doing' more knowledge that allows them to take better care of C-19 patients.  

The excess mortality numbers are estimated by calculating trailing averages so it might take a few years for them to revert to the mean.  

The political and economic implications of this discussion could be interesting.   One possibility is that many voting Americans might overestimate the C-19 deaths due to the Trump administration's management of the pandemic.  

New cases are soaring in Canada but so far Canadian political leaders are not being blamed for Canada's second wave.  That may be due to Canadian political leaders standing strongly behind public health professionals.
 

anecdotal... my kids in college have seen more cases, but most are no worse than the sniffles....compared to last spring when more kids were getting very sick. 
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 21, 2020 - 10:12am



 rgio wrote:


.......

Suicides, overdoses, heart attacks or other issues where people either can't get or delay medical attention. If you want to blame COVID for someone drinking too much and dying, or overdosing out of boredom and/or loniliness, then maybe the deaths are under-counted....but it's a slippery slope and will result in an overstatement of the danger from contracting the virus.

Testing and morbidity comparisons need to be considered carefully.  An increase in the testing should lead to lower morbidity rates for COVID, but it wouldn't impact the excess mortality calculations.

 

Let me be clear.  I am not looking for "blame".   This is an exercise in improved tea-leaf reading in an attempt to arrive at a better understanding.

The virus will cause direct and indirect effects.  Some of the more indirect social effects such as increased substance abuse, increased domestic violence, reduced exercise levels and as a result declines in overall health outcomes do not strike me as a major concern in regards to simply understanding the information that is being generated. 

There appears to be a significant increase in daily C-19 cases while  C-19 deaths are staying relatively low.  

This could be simply the result of medical professionals acquiring through 'learning by doing' more knowledge that allows them to take better care of C-19 patients.  

The excess mortality numbers are estimated by calculating trailing averages so it might take a few years for them to revert to the mean.  

The political and economic implications of this discussion could be interesting.   One possibility is that many voting Americans might overestimate the C-19 deaths due to the Trump administration's management of the pandemic.  

New cases are soaring in Canada but so far Canadian political leaders are not being blamed for Canada's second wave.  That may be due to Canadian political leaders standing strongly behind public health professionals.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 21, 2020 - 9:55am

 westslope wrote:
Question.

The excess mortality information suggests that COVID-19 caused deaths are being under counted.

Now as many countries experience a second wave of similar surge in C-19 virus cases, how much of that is actually due to an increase in the number of cases and how much is due to 'better measurement' that is available through more testing?

One way of viewing the increase in cases is that it is actually a good thing; it is simply an indicator of the health system better managing the pandemic.  

 
Coronavirus: US pandemic death toll likely 50 percent higher than reported
Contributing to the United States' high death toll has been an unusually high mortality rate - more people as a percentage of the population dying of COVID-19 than in other countries with huge outbreaks.

A separate study, also published in JAMA, wanted to find out if that was because the US had an "early surge of cases prior to improvements in prevention and patient management" or  simply had a "poor long-term response".

The University of Pennsylvania researchers found even after the early peak, the US' mortality rate from COVID-19 has remained higher than other OECD countries with outbreaks, such as Italy.
All hail Mammon!
2and4



Posted: Oct 21, 2020 - 9:54am



 black321 wrote:

Oxford University scientists develop ‘extremely rapid’ 5-minute COVID-19 test


could be great news for airlines, events...production possible for mid-21, which seems to imply this virus is going to be around for awhile.
 
I suspect that COVID-19 will always be around and become yet another malady that we will have to manage ala various flus, HIV, chicken pox, etc. Vaccines and cures may be developed but the virus itself ain't going anywhere. 

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 21, 2020 - 9:12am



 westslope wrote:
Question.

The excess mortality information suggests that COVID-19 caused deaths are being under counted.


Now as many countries experience a second wave of similar surge in C-19 virus cases, how much of that is actually due to an increase in the number of cases and how much is due to 'better measurement' that is available through more testing?

One way of viewing the increase in cases is that it is actually a good thing; it is simply an indicator of the health system better managing the pandemic.  

 
Not necessarily.  It depends on how you determine "cause"

It's possible COVID is under-reported, but there is always a bit of chicken and egg in determining whether it was specifically COVID or something else.  The under-reporting based on excess mortaility suggests a significant increase in deaths caused indirectly by the pandemic.

Suicides, overdoses, heart attacks or other issues where people either can't get or delay medical attention. If you want to blame COVID for someone drinking too much and dying, or overdosing out of boredom and/or loniliness, then maybe the deaths are under-counted....but it's a slippery slope and will result in an overstatement of the danger from contracting the virus.

Testing and morbidity comparisons need to be considered carefully.  An increase in the testing should lead to lower morbidity rates for COVID, but it wouldn't impact the excess mortality calculations.

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 21, 2020 - 8:30am

Question.

The excess mortality information suggests that COVID-19 caused deaths are being under counted.

Now as many countries experience a second wave of similar surge in C-19 virus cases, how much of that is actually due to an increase in the number of cases and how much is due to 'better measurement' that is available through more testing?

One way of viewing the increase in cases is that it is actually a good thing; it is simply an indicator of the health system better managing the pandemic.  

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 10:04pm

How the F.D.A. Stood Up to the President
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 2:29pm


westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 12:46pm



 rgio wrote:


........
You're drawing direct correlations that are pure theory.  That list of people is connected to the President or one of his "projects"

Missing from that list are any Fortune class or large Pharma....those on the list have nothing to do with the trillions Trump is handing out in search of a miracle.  

My theoretical....the majority of people on that list support Trump in the hopes of keeping tax rates down while the US government prints money and generates trillions in debt.  They keep their money, and everyone else pays the tab later.  COVID has nothing to do with the math.  To Scott's point, if it was your money, would you wear a mask for an extra 6 months if you could save $3-$5 Trillion on vaccines many won't take anyway while waiting to see how others do?
 

Pure theory?     Not sure I understand.  In order to be taxed, you have to make money.  If demand for US products and services both domestically and externally plummets and stays depressed for longer, it is and will be a lot harder to make money.

But if your suggesting that rich Americans with special interests are backing Trump, that I understand.  That makes sense.  I can readily imagine big Pharma supporting Trump's exceptional views on health.  

Here is an example of odd behaviour.  Folks in the oil & gas industry who support Trump.    What do they want?   More supply and tighter margins?   Below risk-adjusted market rates of return to capital?  

No restrictions on natural gas flaring so oil production can sky rocket up and depress prices?   Strikes me as myopic and self-loathing.

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 11:05am

 rgio wrote:
I generally agree with you, and I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight or belabor the point, but the idea that "it's gonna spread regardless" is misleading.  Yes, it will continue to spread because we need to interact, get food, go to work.  What is known at this point is that masks and distance reduce the spread, and what is also known is that about 1/3rd of the country has decided to follow the advice of a politician over medicine.  In the states where the politician is popular, the spread is higher.  Where the medical community is followed, things are generally better (not good...but better).  

As for gleaning from the chart you posted, all of Scott's observations are personal knowledge.  The only thing the chart tells you is where people have died.  It is no better than a list of numbers, where visualizations that show multiple attributes (like political party and time with normalized populations) greatly enhance the reader's ability to "see" what's happening with the virus.  

I didn't introduce politics into the discussion, our leadership did.  I don't think it's unreasonable to assess performance and identify what's working and what's not, I think it's the best way for all of us to stay safe.  
 

i know that so no worries  {#Good-vibes}

it's a message board and this is like a form of therapy for me

thinking out loud between stuff at work

peace 
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 10:50am



 westslope wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
........

So everyone's going to get it and 5% will have serious symptoms, that's 16 million Americans. Maybe it's not the herd culler some people have been rooting for but I think it's worth having a leader encourage everyone to do the free things: masks, handwashing, and maybe lay low for a bit, as opposed to what he actually did, which maybe didn't directly lead to the first 3trillion in alms for corporations but it will sure be the reason for the next 2 trillion.
 
Curious.  How are donations from corporations to the Trump campaign doing?    American corporations have a vested interest in the US controlling the novel corona virus earlier than later.   At least according to the way despicable pinheads such as economists view this crisis.

Trump  and his supporters have clearly sabotaged early economic recovery.   Yet corporate donors continue to contribute (see below).  

So what is going on here?  Are many controlling owners of American corporations 'exceptional' in the same way that many of us on the outside view most American voters as 'exceptional'?    Can one a) become rich or b) hold on to wealth by being righteous and anti-scientific?    How does this message of "Be patriotic, die for your president, die for your country." resonate with rich Americans?    

Top Donors to Trump 2020 Campaign

The latest list of PACs and individuals who have donated to them.

 
You're drawing direct correlations that are pure theory.  That list of people is connected to the President or one of his "projects"

Missing from that list are any Fortune class or large Pharma....those on the list have nothing to do with the trillions Trump is handing out in search of a miracle.  

My theoretical....the majority of people on that list support Trump in the hopes of keeping tax rates down while the US government prints money and generates trillions in debt.  They keep their money, and everyone else pays the tab later.  COVID has nothing to do with the math.  To Scott's point, if it was your money, would you wear a mask for an extra 6 months if you could save $3-$5 Trillion on vaccines many won't take anyway while waiting to see how others do?
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 10:29am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
........

So everyone's going to get it and 5% will have serious symptoms, that's 16 million Americans. Maybe it's not the herd culler some people have been rooting for but I think it's worth having a leader encourage everyone to do the free things: masks, handwashing, and maybe lay low for a bit, as opposed to what he actually did, which maybe didn't directly lead to the first 3trillion in alms for corporations but it will sure be the reason for the next 2 trillion.
 
Curious.  How are donations from corporations to the Trump campaign doing?    American corporations have a vested interest in the US controlling the novel corona virus earlier than later.   At least according to the way despicable pinheads such as economists view this crisis.

Trump  and his supporters have clearly sabotaged early economic recovery.   Yet corporate donors continue to contribute (see below).  

So what is going on here?  Are many controlling owners of American corporations 'exceptional' in the same way that many of us on the outside view most American voters as 'exceptional'?    Can one a) become rich or b) hold on to wealth by being righteous and anti-scientific?    How does this message of "Be patriotic, die for your president, die for your country." resonate with rich Americans?    

Top Donors to Trump 2020 Campaign

The latest list of PACs and individuals who have donated to them.

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 9:15am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


good point

all we know or have information on are those people that we have tested

i think it's estimated that the vast majority of people will little or no symptoms

so it might make somewhat difficult to get an accurate picture on how many have been infected

there are different estimates, i saw a breakdown something like this:

40% no symptoms
40% mild symptoms
15% moderate symptoms
5% serious symptoms

i'm certain that these numbers will change as we learn more 

will we ever know with any accuracy? doubt it, but hopefully we'll get close
 

So everyone's going to get it and 5% will have serious symptoms, that's 16 million Americans. Maybe it's not the herd culler some people have been rooting for but I think it's worth having a leader encourage everyone to do the free things: masks, handwashing, and maybe lay low for a bit, as opposed to what he actually did, which maybe didn't directly lead to the first 3trillion in alms for corporations but it will sure be the reason for the next 2 trillion.
 

i'm not familiar with anyone rooting for herd culling

but yeah, people shouldn't emulate trump 

if he or any other politician tells you what time it is you should still check your watch

=

also, i don't know how in the hell our leaders can't separate financial stimulus to individuals from all the special interests holding this up

if you're going to do it, and i'm pretty sure that they are, just get it done
Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 155, 156, 157  Next