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Play the Blues - sirdroseph - Oct 17, 2020 - 4:20am
 
Race in America - sirdroseph - Oct 17, 2020 - 4:03am
 
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Radio Paradise on multiple Echo speakers via an Alexa Rou... - jarro - Oct 16, 2020 - 1:43pm
 
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RP App in Android Auto: - jwaldrep - Oct 16, 2020 - 9:30am
 
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Taxes, Taxes, Taxes (and Taxes) - sirdroseph - Oct 16, 2020 - 4:57am
 
the Todd Rundgren topic - Steely_D - Oct 15, 2020 - 7:30pm
 
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Photos you have taken of your walks or hikes. - Antigone - Oct 15, 2020 - 2:53pm
 
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Annoying stuff. not things that piss you off, just annoyi... - Red_Dragon - Oct 15, 2020 - 12:58pm
 
What did you have for dinner? - nate917 - Oct 15, 2020 - 11:39am
 
Those Lovable Policemen - cc_rider - Oct 15, 2020 - 7:46am
 
Would you drive this car for dating with ur girl? - islander - Oct 15, 2020 - 6:32am
 
What Did You Do Today? - davidharper - Oct 15, 2020 - 4:36am
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » COVID-19 Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 154, 155, 156  Next
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R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 10:04pm

How the F.D.A. Stood Up to the President
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 2:29pm


westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 12:46pm



 rgio wrote:


........
You're drawing direct correlations that are pure theory.  That list of people is connected to the President or one of his "projects"

Missing from that list are any Fortune class or large Pharma....those on the list have nothing to do with the trillions Trump is handing out in search of a miracle.  

My theoretical....the majority of people on that list support Trump in the hopes of keeping tax rates down while the US government prints money and generates trillions in debt.  They keep their money, and everyone else pays the tab later.  COVID has nothing to do with the math.  To Scott's point, if it was your money, would you wear a mask for an extra 6 months if you could save $3-$5 Trillion on vaccines many won't take anyway while waiting to see how others do?
 

Pure theory?     Not sure I understand.  In order to be taxed, you have to make money.  If demand for US products and services both domestically and externally plummets and stays depressed for longer, it is and will be a lot harder to make money.

But if your suggesting that rich Americans with special interests are backing Trump, that I understand.  That makes sense.  I can readily imagine big Pharma supporting Trump's exceptional views on health.  

Here is an example of odd behaviour.  Folks in the oil & gas industry who support Trump.    What do they want?   More supply and tighter margins?   Below risk-adjusted market rates of return to capital?  

No restrictions on natural gas flaring so oil production can sky rocket up and depress prices?   Strikes me as myopic and self-loathing.

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 11:05am

 rgio wrote:
I generally agree with you, and I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight or belabor the point, but the idea that "it's gonna spread regardless" is misleading.  Yes, it will continue to spread because we need to interact, get food, go to work.  What is known at this point is that masks and distance reduce the spread, and what is also known is that about 1/3rd of the country has decided to follow the advice of a politician over medicine.  In the states where the politician is popular, the spread is higher.  Where the medical community is followed, things are generally better (not good...but better).  

As for gleaning from the chart you posted, all of Scott's observations are personal knowledge.  The only thing the chart tells you is where people have died.  It is no better than a list of numbers, where visualizations that show multiple attributes (like political party and time with normalized populations) greatly enhance the reader's ability to "see" what's happening with the virus.  

I didn't introduce politics into the discussion, our leadership did.  I don't think it's unreasonable to assess performance and identify what's working and what's not, I think it's the best way for all of us to stay safe.  
 

i know that so no worries  {#Good-vibes}

it's a message board and this is like a form of therapy for me

thinking out loud between stuff at work

peace 
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 10:50am



 westslope wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
........

So everyone's going to get it and 5% will have serious symptoms, that's 16 million Americans. Maybe it's not the herd culler some people have been rooting for but I think it's worth having a leader encourage everyone to do the free things: masks, handwashing, and maybe lay low for a bit, as opposed to what he actually did, which maybe didn't directly lead to the first 3trillion in alms for corporations but it will sure be the reason for the next 2 trillion.
 
Curious.  How are donations from corporations to the Trump campaign doing?    American corporations have a vested interest in the US controlling the novel corona virus earlier than later.   At least according to the way despicable pinheads such as economists view this crisis.

Trump  and his supporters have clearly sabotaged early economic recovery.   Yet corporate donors continue to contribute (see below).  

So what is going on here?  Are many controlling owners of American corporations 'exceptional' in the same way that many of us on the outside view most American voters as 'exceptional'?    Can one a) become rich or b) hold on to wealth by being righteous and anti-scientific?    How does this message of "Be patriotic, die for your president, die for your country." resonate with rich Americans?    

Top Donors to Trump 2020 Campaign

The latest list of PACs and individuals who have donated to them.

 
You're drawing direct correlations that are pure theory.  That list of people is connected to the President or one of his "projects"

Missing from that list are any Fortune class or large Pharma....those on the list have nothing to do with the trillions Trump is handing out in search of a miracle.  

My theoretical....the majority of people on that list support Trump in the hopes of keeping tax rates down while the US government prints money and generates trillions in debt.  They keep their money, and everyone else pays the tab later.  COVID has nothing to do with the math.  To Scott's point, if it was your money, would you wear a mask for an extra 6 months if you could save $3-$5 Trillion on vaccines many won't take anyway while waiting to see how others do?
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 10:29am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
........

So everyone's going to get it and 5% will have serious symptoms, that's 16 million Americans. Maybe it's not the herd culler some people have been rooting for but I think it's worth having a leader encourage everyone to do the free things: masks, handwashing, and maybe lay low for a bit, as opposed to what he actually did, which maybe didn't directly lead to the first 3trillion in alms for corporations but it will sure be the reason for the next 2 trillion.
 
Curious.  How are donations from corporations to the Trump campaign doing?    American corporations have a vested interest in the US controlling the novel corona virus earlier than later.   At least according to the way despicable pinheads such as economists view this crisis.

Trump  and his supporters have clearly sabotaged early economic recovery.   Yet corporate donors continue to contribute (see below).  

So what is going on here?  Are many controlling owners of American corporations 'exceptional' in the same way that many of us on the outside view most American voters as 'exceptional'?    Can one a) become rich or b) hold on to wealth by being righteous and anti-scientific?    How does this message of "Be patriotic, die for your president, die for your country." resonate with rich Americans?    

Top Donors to Trump 2020 Campaign

The latest list of PACs and individuals who have donated to them.

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 9:15am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


good point

all we know or have information on are those people that we have tested

i think it's estimated that the vast majority of people will little or no symptoms

so it might make somewhat difficult to get an accurate picture on how many have been infected

there are different estimates, i saw a breakdown something like this:

40% no symptoms
40% mild symptoms
15% moderate symptoms
5% serious symptoms

i'm certain that these numbers will change as we learn more 

will we ever know with any accuracy? doubt it, but hopefully we'll get close
 

So everyone's going to get it and 5% will have serious symptoms, that's 16 million Americans. Maybe it's not the herd culler some people have been rooting for but I think it's worth having a leader encourage everyone to do the free things: masks, handwashing, and maybe lay low for a bit, as opposed to what he actually did, which maybe didn't directly lead to the first 3trillion in alms for corporations but it will sure be the reason for the next 2 trillion.
 

i'm not familiar with anyone rooting for herd culling

but yeah, people shouldn't emulate trump 

if he or any other politician tells you what time it is you should still check your watch

=

also, i don't know how in the hell our leaders can't separate financial stimulus to individuals from all the special interests holding this up

if you're going to do it, and i'm pretty sure that they are, just get it done
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 8:48am

And, if this really is a virus from China, but hundreds of thousands of Americans have died - has he really done that good a job of protecting the country from foreign invaders?
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 8:45am



 miamizsun wrote:


good point

all we know or have information on are those people that we have tested

i think it's estimated that the vast majority of people will little or no symptoms

so it might make somewhat difficult to get an accurate picture on how many have been infected

there are different estimates, i saw a breakdown something like this:

40% no symptoms
40% mild symptoms
15% moderate symptoms
5% serious symptoms

i'm certain that these numbers will change as we learn more 

will we ever know with any accuracy? doubt it, but hopefully we'll get close
 

So everyone's going to get it and 5% will have serious symptoms, that's 16 million Americans. Maybe it's not the herd culler some people have been rooting for but I think it's worth having a leader encourage everyone to do the free things: masks, handwashing, and maybe lay low for a bit, as opposed to what he actually did, which maybe didn't directly lead to the first 3trillion in alms for corporations but it will sure be the reason for the next 2 trillion.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 8:39am

rgio wrote:
I generally agree with you, and I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight or belabor the point, but the idea that "it's gonna spread regardless" is misleading.  Yes, it will continue to spread because we need to interact, get food, go to work.  What is known at this point is that masks and distance reduce the spread, and what is also known is that about 1/3rd of the country has decided to follow the advice of a politician over medicine.  In the states where the politician is popular, the spread is higher.  Where the medical community is followed, things are generally better (not good...but better).  

As for gleaning from the chart you posted, all of Scott's observations are personal knowledge.  The only thing the chart tells you is where people have died.  It is no better than a list of numbers, where visualizations that show multiple attributes (like political party and time with normalized populations) greatly enhance the reader's ability to "see" what's happening with the virus.  

I didn't introduce politics into the discussion, our leadership did.  I don't think it's unreasonable to assess performance and identify what's working and what's not, I think it's the best way for all of us to stay safe.  

 
i live in a very blue area and i have noticed that more and more people are not masking and sloppy masking

nose exposed or just keeping one down over the chin/neck 

example with restaurants: pull it up just to get in the door and immediately drop it down again after seated

i think they're just tired or fatigued

of course there quite a few diehards and i'd put myself in this category

my age alone puts me in a higher risk band

overall it looks like we have flattened the curve regarding overwhelming the medical facilities

but i think that will vary with geography
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 8:17am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I must be missing some math, then, because herd immunity implies a saturation level at which point the virus finds few new hosts, but their per capita infections since this began is among the lowest in the country, after NH, Maine, Vermont. Wyoming used to be in that group due simply to isolation and sparse population but we're now somehow in the middle of the pack, and for a few weeks in Sept/Oct we led the nation with something around 1.4 persons infected by every positive. We now have 3x as many cases per capita than New York does. If NY has achieved some level of herd immunity, Wyoming should be absolutely impervious to further spread. But here we are.
 

good point

all we know or have information on are those people that we have tested

i think it's estimated that the vast majority of people will have little or no symptoms

so it might make somewhat difficult to get an accurate picture on how many have been infected

there are different estimates, i saw a breakdown something like this:

40% no symptoms
40% mild symptoms
15% moderate symptoms
5% serious symptoms

i'm certain that these numbers will change as we learn more 

will we ever know with any accuracy? doubt it, but hopefully we'll get close
cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 7:46am



 rgio wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:
ScottFromWyoming wrote:
What do you glean from this? New York was hit early and very hard. We've learned a lot since then. Well, some of us have. If you look at the animation below, you can see that NY now has fewer cases per capita than all but 4 states.


exactly what you just said

this virus is going to spread regardless of political stripe...
 
I generally agree with you, and I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight or belabor the point, but the idea that "it's gonna spread regardless" is misleading.  Yes, it will continue to spread because we need to interact, get food, go to work.  What is known at this point is that masks and distance reduce the spread, and what is also known is that about 1/3rd of the country has decided to follow the advice of a politician over medicine.  In the states where the politician is popular, the spread is higher.  Where the medical community is followed, things are generally better (not good...but better). 

As for gleaning from the chart you posted, all of Scott's observations are personal knowledge.  The only thing the chart tells you is where people have died.  It is no better than a list of numbers, where visualizations that show multiple attributes (like political party and time with normalized populations) greatly enhance the reader's ability to "see" what's happening with the virus.  

I didn't introduce politics into the discussion, our leadership did. 
I don't think it's unreasonable to assess performance and identify what's working and what's not, I think it's the best way for all of us to stay safe. 


 
That is the real story of this crisis. Or any crisis all crises during this administration, come to think of it. What has to be so broken in a person's mind they are compelled to weaponize a deadly infection? And weaponize hurricanes? And wildfires? Using peoples' sickness and deaths as political fodder?
Withholding a lifeline to a drowning man, unless he says nice things about you? That's what this administration has done - almost literally. The orange one can be forgiven for his actions - he is who he is, after all - but the enablers, sycophants and justifiers have allowed this administration to do actual evil*.
I am not religious, but I'm pretty sure every Scripture of every faith requires its followers to care for their fellow man. Even if, especially if, they are not of the same faith. To do otherwise, as this administration has done - and been allowed to do - is textbook evil*.
c.


*e·vil/ˈēvəl/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
  1. profoundly immoral and wicked."his evil deeds"

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 7:16am



 miamizsun wrote:


exactly what you just said

this virus is going to spread regardless of political stripe

when people start doing stuff they will be exposed

that includes the majority of humans on earth

it looks like new york has reached a point where they have some social resistance

i would say herd immunity, but i won't

because trigger
 

I must be missing some math, then, because herd immunity implies a saturation level at which point the virus finds few new hosts, but their per capita infections since this began is among the lowest in the country, after NH, Maine, Vermont. Wyoming used to be in that group due simply to isolation and sparse population but we're now somehow in the middle of the pack, and for a few weeks in Sept/Oct we led the nation with something around 1.4 persons infected by every positive. We now have 3x as many cases per capita than New York does. If NY has achieved some level of herd immunity, Wyoming should be absolutely impervious to further spread. But here we are.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 4:54am



 miamizsun wrote:
ScottFromWyoming wrote:
What do you glean from this? New York was hit early and very hard. We've learned a lot since then. Well, some of us have. If you look at the animation below, you can see that NY now has fewer cases per capita than all but 4 states.


exactly what you just said

this virus is going to spread regardless of political stripe...
 
I generally agree with you, and I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight or belabor the point, but the idea that "it's gonna spread regardless" is misleading.  Yes, it will continue to spread because we need to interact, get food, go to work.  What is known at this point is that masks and distance reduce the spread, and what is also known is that about 1/3rd of the country has decided to follow the advice of a politician over medicine.  In the states where the politician is popular, the spread is higher.  Where the medical community is followed, things are generally better (not good...but better). 

As for gleaning from the chart you posted, all of Scott's observations are personal knowledge.  The only thing the chart tells you is where people have died.  It is no better than a list of numbers, where visualizations that show multiple attributes (like political party and time with normalized populations) greatly enhance the reader's ability to "see" what's happening with the virus.  

I didn't introduce politics into the discussion, our leadership did.  I don't think it's unreasonable to assess performance and identify what's working and what's not, I think it's the best way for all of us to stay safe. 


miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 20, 2020 - 4:30am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
What do you glean from this? New York was hit early and very hard. We've learned a lot since then. Well, some of us have. If you look at the animation below, you can see that NY now has fewer cases per capita than all but 4 states.
 

exactly what you just said

this virus is going to spread regardless of political stripe

when people start doing stuff they will be exposed

that includes the majority of humans on earth

it looks like new york has reached a point where they have some social resistance

i would say herd immunity, but i won't

because trigger
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 19, 2020 - 5:14pm



 westslope wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


i'm not sure how helpful it is dragging partisan politics into this, but here's an interesting chart from statista



..
 

How about dragging some math into it.   Are those per capita numbers?
 
As it says in the header....per million

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 19, 2020 - 4:57pm



 miamizsun wrote:


i'm not sure how helpful it is dragging partisan politics into this, but here's an interesting chart from statista



..
 

How about dragging some math into it.   Are those per capita numbers?
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 19, 2020 - 3:57pm



 BlueHeronDruid wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:



this is a failure of the us public health bureaucracy



 
And a failure to recognize the severity of the situation and act responsibly, by the general population. Squarely placed on the shoulders of don't tread on me yahoos.

Funny how the last administration had a detailed plan. Shocking. This fucker in the WH, however, is smarter than everyone. He knows more about everything than anyone else. And his followers believe him. The "bureacracy" never stood a chance against a buffoon like this.

 


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 19, 2020 - 3:54pm



 miamizsun wrote:


i'm not sure how helpful it is dragging partisan politics into this, but here's an interesting chart from statista


Statistic: Number of deaths from coronavirus (COVID-19) in the United States as of October 19, 2020, by state | Statista

Find more statistics at Statista
 

What do you glean from this? New York was hit early and very hard. We've learned a lot since then. Well, some of us have. If you look at the animation below, you can see that NY now has fewer cases per capita than all but 4 states.

BlueHeronDruid

BlueHeronDruid Avatar

Location: planting flowers


Posted: Oct 19, 2020 - 3:42pm



 miamizsun wrote:



this is a failure of the us public health bureaucracy



 
And a failure to recognize the severity of the situation and act responsibly, by the general population. Squarely placed on the shoulders of don't tread on me yahoos.

Funny how the last administration had a detailed plan. Shocking. This fucker in the WH, however, is smarter than everyone. He knows more about everything than anyone else. And his followers believe him. The "bureacracy" never stood a chance against a buffoon like this.

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