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Red_Dragon

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Posted: Aug 7, 2022 - 7:29am

 VV wrote:

WTF? Where is the lie and what anti-data are you even talking about?



he was being sarcastic, me thinks

VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2022 - 7:04pm

 westslope wrote:

That is a lie and you know it. 

Stop being anti-data like Trump supporters.


WTF? Where is the lie and what anti-data are you even talking about?

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Aug 6, 2022 - 1:57pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

There is more to that than "NATO good." NATO being necessary to defend a free Europe doesn't imply that the US should pay for it.

If the Ukraine war demonstrates anything it's that Europe needs to take responsibility for its own defense. Decades of relying on Uncle Sugar has left it unprepared to deal with a threat like Putin—not just militarily but politically and socially.

The US would be essential in a shooting war, but we don't face most of the consequences of one. The reprisals don't fall on our cities, we don't shiver thru a winter with no heat, the refugees don't stream across our borders, and we don't have to live with a belligerent neighbor after.

I don't think the US funding NATO thru the 20th century was a mistake; it lead to a mostly-free, peaceful, and prosperous Europe after a disastrous half-century of war. European dependency on the US in the 21st century is now pretty clearly a mistake, and one that Europe needs to fix.

Yes, I did not address at all the issue of  the United States’ share of the tab nor its implications. SFW’s post referenced a Trump proposal/suggestion that the US leave NATO.  I do not think it should. NATO is not obsolete, as Trump then claimed (Trump later claimed he was just trying to get the Europeans to pay more for their defense)

It is abundantly clear that the US cannot continue to attempt to serve as kind of a global police force, not in Europe, not in Asia, not in the Middle East, not anywhere. Just from a financial standpoint, this is the reality. 

For good or ill, a big part of US foreign policy post-WWII has been to “fight them over there.” That is why Bin Laden thought it important to bring the war home to America. He also foresaw a draining of America’s money and patience. That was part of his strategy. Some of that is coming to fruition.

Big questions are confronting us. Dynamics have changed. Shouting “America First,” will not begin to provide any solutions. One thing I believe to be obvious is that Americans need to learn to accept that America is not always going to be a top dog. We cannot just impose our will, politically, socially, militarily. We will need to work and play well with others.



westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Aug 6, 2022 - 12:15pm

 VV wrote:

It’s only because of NATO membership that the Baltic States haven’t been smashed by the Russian military and annexed by Russia so thank God for that.....


That is a lie and you know it. 

Stop being anti-data like Trump supporters.

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2022 - 12:11pm

 steeler wrote:
The importance of peace in Europe is once again being demonstrated. I would say the Russian invasion of Ukraine has underscored the need for NATO.

There is more to that than "NATO good." NATO being necessary to defend a free Europe doesn't imply that the US should pay for it.

If the Ukraine war demonstrates anything it's that Europe needs to take responsibility for its own defense. Decades of relying on Uncle Sugar has left it unprepared to deal with a threat like Putin—not just militarily but politically and socially.

The US would be essential in a shooting war, but we don't face most of the consequences of one. The reprisals don't fall on our cities, we don't shiver thru a winter with no heat, the refugees don't stream across our borders, and we don't have to live with a belligerent neighbor after.

I don't think the US funding NATO thru the 20th century was a mistake; it lead to a mostly-free, peaceful, and prosperous Europe after a disastrous half-century of war. European dependency on the US in the 21st century is now pretty clearly a mistake, and one that Europe needs to fix.
Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2022 - 11:40am

 black321 wrote:

Why can't apparently intelligent folks at least make an effort to understand complex situations?
I think instead, they just savor the argument.



Sounds like something HITLER would say!
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Aug 6, 2022 - 9:49am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


Upsides and downsides to NATO but when Trump was saying we should leave, a lot of people hadn't thought about it in years and were hard pressed to immediately specify why he was wrong. Myself included. 

The importance of peace in Europe is once again being demonstrated. I would say the Russian invasion of Ukraine has underscored the need for NATO.

ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2022 - 8:50am

 VV wrote:
 NATO was probably the weakest it had been in years but thanks to Russia that has all changed.



Upsides and downsides to NATO but when Trump was saying we should leave, a lot of people hadn't thought about it in years and were hard pressed to immediately specify why he was wrong. Myself included. 
VV

VV Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2022 - 8:32am

 westslope wrote:


No.  Not all.   Your political elites along with significant popular support are in the processing of hammering the poor on fixed income and low-income workers. 

1.  Your dual mandate monetary policy makes high inflation and financial instability more likely than less likely.  It is exacerbated by a naïve belief in economic growth as opposed to higher per capita wealth outcomes.  If it was up to me, the employment mandate would be dropped and the inflation target reduced to 1% and ultimately to 0%.  

2.  The US cheap energy entitlement and the lowest excise taxes on gasoline and diesel among the rich western democracies make the US economy more vulnerable to oil price shocks.

3.  Clearly little thought went into providing NATO membership to former Warsaw Pact countries and the threat to make Ukraine a member of NATO.  As long as Dark Ages morality and an old Testament warrior attitude prevails over US foreign policy, more mistakes will be made.  The most vulnerable will suffer, as always.  



It’s only because of NATO membership that the Baltic States haven’t been smashed by the Russian military and annexed by Russia so thank God for that. And thank God for Finland and Sweden for deciding to become a part of NATO as well.

So yea, if Ukraine had been granted full membership earlier we more than likely would not be seeing this Russian military aggression.

I love how you act as if independent countries are not independent and not allowed/capable of making their own decisions in terms of their global associations. No one is forcing anyone to join NATO. Did NATO force Finland & Sweden to join? The only dark age morality and warrior attitude that I am seeing is coming from the Russian side. NATO was probably the weakest it had been in years but thanks to Russia that has all changed.

westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Aug 5, 2022 - 11:45am

 kurtster wrote:


So having said all of that, you are ok with the inflationary affects and the resulting significantly lower standard of living for those making $100 k or less per year ?


No.  Not all.   Your political elites along with significant popular support are in the processing of hammering the poor on fixed income and low-income workers. 

1.  Your dual mandate monetary policy makes high inflation and financial instability more likely than less likely.  It is exacerbated by a naïve belief in economic growth as opposed to higher per capita wealth outcomes.  If it was up to me, the employment mandate would be dropped and the inflation target reduced to 1% and ultimately to 0%.  

2.  The US cheap energy entitlement and the lowest excise taxes on gasoline and diesel among the rich western democracies make the US economy more vulnerable to oil price shocks.

3.  Clearly little thought went into providing NATO membership to former Warsaw Pact countries and the threat to make Ukraine a member of NATO.  As long as Dark Ages morality and an old Testament warrior attitude prevails over US foreign policy, more mistakes will be made.  The most vulnerable will suffer, as always.  


kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Aug 5, 2022 - 11:38am

Not to over-post but as @briantaylorcohen tweeted,


Hell of a week for Biden:

-528k July jobs added
-Unemployment at 3.5% (50-year low)
-Zawahiri killed
-CHIPS Act passes
-PACT Act passes
-Inflation Reduction Act deal
-Gas hits 50+ day low (median US price below $4/gal)
-Kansas protects abortion

And he oversaw it all with COVID.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Aug 5, 2022 - 8:11am

Demand for gas is down 10% compared to 2019. That's not a huge amount. According to this Reuters article, price drops for refined retail gas lags behind crude petroleum price drops. Crude has plummeted in price, retail gas has slowly dropped in price. 

Interesting piece! 

U.S. gasoline prices are finally falling. Why?

https://www.reuters.com/busine...
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Aug 5, 2022 - 8:01am

 kurtster wrote:

Biden has given us a recession.  Demand is falling, hence falling prices,

528,000 jobs added in July. Not clear we're in a recession. 

Kurt, if you're going to make claims about the economy, please provide reliable supporting evidence. There are enough bloviating liars and fantasists in the world.
black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 5, 2022 - 7:54am

Why can't apparently intelligent folks at least make an effort to understand complex situations?
I think instead, they just savor the argument.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Aug 5, 2022 - 7:41am

 Bill_J wrote:


I don't understand economics very well but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with child sex-trafficking.


We can discuss over pizza at Comet Ping Pong.
Bill_J

Bill_J Avatar



Posted: Aug 5, 2022 - 6:06am

 Red_Dragon wrote:


do tell


I don't understand economics very well but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with child sex-trafficking.
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Aug 5, 2022 - 6:03am

 rgio wrote:

Exactly how did Biden give us the recession?



do tell
rgio

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Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 5, 2022 - 5:51am

 kurtster wrote:

Biden has given us a recession.  Demand is falling, hence falling prices,

Exactly how did Biden give us the recession?

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 5, 2022 - 5:39am

 kcar wrote:
Gas prices this area are now 30-40 cents/gallon higher than winter prices. What happened to your supercrisis, Kurt?
 
Biden has given us a recession.  Demand is falling, hence falling prices,
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 4, 2022 - 9:17pm

 westslope wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

The price of everything is up, in real terms. You've also been advocating for higher oil prices for as long as you have been here.  Said that we had it too soft and needed to pay more. Well you got your wish at last and Joe is your saviour ! So how are these higher gas prices working out for you ?  You should be jumping for joy right now.

Well, I slowed down 10 km/h on average when I drive highways with the gas-guzzling 4X4 off-road SUV.  To about 101-102 km/hr if you are curious. Otherwise, as an investor who specializes in overseas oil & gas explorers & producers, it is working out really well kurtster.   Thank you for asking. Everybody in this sector was really down on Joe but I knew different.  I knew that he was just as attached to the infamous US cheap energy entitlement as Donald J. Trump and friends when he took office.  I knew that Joe would attempt to save the world from climate disruption by attacking and demonizing supply and distribution.   I knew Joe would avoid directly addressing consumption because that would be 'un-American'.   Joe knows that American voters are not strong on math, data and the sciences in general and care for US world class experts about as much as they care for the brown-skinned victims of US terrorism.    Joe knows that transparency and accountability are not in great demand.  I knew that Joe was a Man of Freedom.  I knew that he would proudly and with great determination maintain the US federal government excise taxes on gasoline and diesel  fuel at the same level they were at in nominal terms in the 1990s.   I knew Joe was a big backer of the ever popular US obesity-sitting-dementia policies.   To some extent, I sympathize.  Given the widespread availability of fabulous and oh so powerful modern opioid drugs, why make an effort to 'live right'?  Opioids to the rescue!
 
Quite an assessment you make there.

So having said all of that, you are ok with the inflationary affects and the resulting significantly lower standard of living for those making $100 k or less per year ?
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