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Index »
Radio Paradise/General »
General Discussion »
Trump
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Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 877, 878, 879 ... 1146, 1147, 1148 Next |
kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 19, 2017 - 6:57am |
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ScottFromWyoming wrote: Okay, I'll back up a little more: you said, "I knew he was involved with the Mafia, ... That did not deter me in making my choice out of the binary one offered." But you chose Trump long before it was binary. There were two dozen people thinking about running but even before he announced, you chose the rapey mafia serial liar criminal over any of the other options. Don't try to make it sound like you were forced to hold your nose and vote for him because the only other option was Hillary.
My first choice was Rand Paul ... he didn't make the cut.
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ScottFromWyoming
Location: Powell Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 19, 2017 - 6:44am |
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kurtster wrote: Yeah and you also know what I mean.
When it came down to how many could actually win, there was only two.
And Ohio was in play ...
Okay, I'll back up a little more: you said, " I knew he was involved with the Mafia, ... That did not deter me in making my choice out of the binary one offered." But you chose Trump long before it was binary. There were two dozen people thinking about running but even before he announced, you chose the rapey mafia serial liar criminal over any of the other options. Don't try to make it sound like you were forced to hold your nose and vote for him because the only other option was Hillary.
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 19, 2017 - 6:09am |
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ScottFromWyoming wrote: Binary means 2. Yeah and you also know what I mean. When it came down to how many could actually win, there was only two. And Ohio was in play ...
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ScottFromWyoming
Location: Powell Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 19, 2017 - 6:02am |
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kurtster wrote: That did not deter me in making my choice out of the binary one offered. Binary means 2.
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meower
Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 19, 2017 - 5:30am |
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maryte wrote:The Centre for Research on Globalization (cited by lowphreak) is a very poor source for anything that rational people might consider factual.
details, details.
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maryte
Location: Blinding You With Library Science! Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 19, 2017 - 5:28am |
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The Centre for Research on Globalization (cited by lowphreak) is a very poor source for anything that rational people might consider factual.
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kcar
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Posted:
Jul 19, 2017 - 2:36am |
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LowPhreak wrote:You can look into other NSA whistleblowers such as Thomas Drake, J. Kirk Weibe, Ed Loomis, (all former high ranking NSA personnel) and former Congressional aide in charge of NSA oversight, Diane Roark. All of them have said similar to what Binney has, and all of them have appeared with him in various interviews and discussions and corroborate his info on NSA. Easy to find on YouTube and elsewhere, even PBS did a Frontline episode a few years ago with Weibe and Drake, et al. If you're going to argue with the likes of a Bill Binney, I suggest you pack a big lunch. You'll need it. If you don't think the public is being snowed, as you put it, by a propaganda campaign after the info I've given and is easily searched elsewhere, then I doubt anything would convince you. There can be any number of reasons why Trump hasn't forced NSA to turn over the DNC and Podesta data, one of which could simply be that they have unsavory info on Trump or those in the admin. that could be leaked; another could be that he fears for his life if he discloses the DNC/Podesta info. It might also lead into the Seth Rich issue. The NSA knows everything that goes in and out of this country re communications, even though as Binney and the others have said it is illegal and unconstitutional. They certainly have the goods on the Dems and anything Trump has done in the past several years. There's also more here and here. All of which makes your assumptions about the intel agencies wishful thinking at best. There were only 4 out of 17 agencies that reluctantly agreed with what is actually a NSA leak, and that based on "best conclusions", not verifiable evidence, and after a charade was presented that ALL agencies agreed, ("widespread consensus") when they actually did not. I also have no confidence in Bob Mueller. My problem with Mueller is that after Comey, I don't trust any FBI director at this time (unless he/she were a proven non-partisan, unimpeachable, independent law enforcement officer), especially one that was appointed by GW Bush and the Neo-Cons only a week before 9/11 and never conducted a proper crime scene investigation on it. Just for starters, Mueller allowed the physical evidence of a very important crime scene to be destroyed, such as all of the steel and debris to be carted away immediately and shipped to Asia for melting down, among other egregious actions (or non-actions). That is not a conspiracy "theory", it is a fact. By that alone Mueller is already disqualified. No, I won't get into the whole 9/11 can of worms but that is one example of why Mueller cannot be trusted here. He's just the guy you want to get a desired result, as he proved 15 years ago. So the NSA and the Mainstream Media (MSM) are running a propaganda campaign. Against Trump. Because they don't want him to be president. Oh wait he already is. So...they're running this propaganda campaign... together...against Trump because they want Congress to impeach Trump? Even though that's not going to happen as long as the GOP has enough members in Congress to block impeachment? Forgive me if I sound confused. I'm trying to figure out just who's running this Big Top Circus of Skulduggery that you're talking about. And who is the target. And what the goal of this propaganda conspiracy is. "There can be any number of reasons why Trump hasn't forced NSA to turn over the DNC and Podesta data, one of which could simply be that they have unsavory info on Trump or those in the admin. that could be leaked; another could be that he fears for his life if he discloses the DNC/Podesta info. It might also lead into the Seth Rich issue."
Info more unsavory than the "grab 'em by the pussy" remark? Trump's bankruptcies? The Trump University scandal? Or, you speculate that the President of the United States is afraid of getting killed if he forces the release of what really happened to the DNC server and Podesta's emails. Or what happened to Seth Rich. Trump is the king of the garbage heap. He won despite (perhaps because of) all sorts of awful info about him coming out. At this point, what sort of info on Trump is going to make his supporters stop supporting him? And perhaps you've forgotten: Trump ran on the promise of draining the swamp. Of getting rid of federal corruption, skulduggery and government powers that did illegal things and didn't answer to the people. Why wouldn't he just out the NSA for hiding the truth, especially when it would vindicate his claims that he had nothing to do with the Russians during the campaign and that the Russians didn't hack the DNC server? And if someone sympathetic to the Democratic party or HRC had Seth Rich killed and the NSA somehow had info on that, don't you think Trump would want that made public? And if Trump actually feared for his life from an NSA or CIA hit, don't you think that he'd have that exposed and stopped? It'd be a yuuuge PR win for him: "Trump's so dangerous to Washington fat cats that they tried to have him snuffed, but The Donald beat them!" Also: do you seriously think that a federal agency would have the president killed because it feared he was going to shed some sunlight on their activities? LowPhreak, I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but your claims remind me of a large dog running under a big dropcloth in the dark. There's a lot of movement and rustling and confusion in the middle of night, but it doesn't make a damn bit of sense. Your posts have bits that read like something from The Firesign Theater. It may simply be that the NSA does have a clear understanding of what happened to the DNC servers and Podesta's emails but that it is not going to provide technical proof backing its conclusions because it doesn't want to expose its abilities or sources. Whether their classified knowledge has anything to do with Trump's campaign, I have no idea. Frankly, if the NSA had info linking Trump's campaign to a Russian project to hack into the DNC, I think the agency would have come out with it. As for Don Trump jr and his emails hoping to get incriminating info on HRC from the Russians, I think Trump jr is an idiot who didn't understand relevant federal law. You could say the same about Kushner and many others involved in the Trump campaign and administration. It may be that many of the bad deeds (hell, even crimes) that come to light from the various investigations are just instances of stupidity, willingness to play dirty and a willful ignorance of the law. Finally: "There were only 4 out of 17 agencies that reluctantly agreed with what is actually a NSA leak, and that based on "best conclusions", not verifiable evidence, and after a charade was presented that ALL agencies agreed, ("widespread consensus") when they actually did not. "Do you have a link or links to back the claims you make here?
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kurtster
Location: where fear is not a virtue Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 19, 2017 - 2:32am |
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LowPhreak wrote:You can look into other NSA whistleblowers such as Thomas Drake, J. Kirk Weibe, Ed Loomis, (all former high ranking NSA personnel) and former Congressional aide in charge of NSA oversight, Diane Roark. All of them have said similar to what Binney has, and all of them have appeared with him in various interviews and discussions and corroborate his info on NSA. Easy to find on YouTube and elsewhere, even PBS did a Frontline episode a few years ago with Weibe and Drake, et al. If you're going to argue with the likes of a Bill Binney, I suggest you pack a big lunch. You'll need it. If you don't think the public is being snowed, as you put it, by a propaganda campaign after the info I've given and is easily searched elsewhere, then I doubt anything would convince you. There can be any number of reasons why Trump hasn't forced NSA to turn over the DNC and Podesta data, one of which could simply be that they have unsavory info on Trump or those in the admin. that could be leaked; another could be that he fears for his life if he discloses the DNC/Podesta info. It might also lead into the Seth Rich issue. The NSA knows everything that goes in and out of this country re communications, even though as Binney and the others have said it is illegal and unconstitutional. They certainly have the goods on the Dems and anything Trump has done in the past several years. There's also more here and here. All of which makes your assumptions about the intel agencies wishful thinking at best. There were only 4 out of 17 agencies that reluctantly agreed with what is actually a NSA leak, and that based on "best conclusions", not verifiable evidence, and after a charade was presented that ALL agencies agreed, ("widespread consensus") when they actually did not. I also have no confidence in Bob Mueller. My problem with Mueller is that after Comey, I don't trust any FBI director at this time (unless he/she were a proven non-partisan, unimpeachable, independent law enforcement officer), especially one that was appointed by GW Bush and the Neo-Cons only a week before 9/11 and never conducted a proper crime scene investigation on it. Just for starters, Mueller allowed the physical evidence of a very important crime scene to be destroyed, such as all of the steel and debris to be carted away immediately and shipped to Asia for melting down, among other egregious actions (or non-actions). That is not a conspiracy "theory", it is a fact. By that alone Mueller is already disqualified. No, I won't get into the whole 9/11 can of worms but that is one example of why Mueller cannot be trusted here. He's just the guy you want to get a desired result, as he proved 15 years ago. Your timing is impeccable. I do agree with your assessment of Trump farther below. I knew he was no choir boy. I knew he was involved with the Mafia, but how do you not use massive amounts of concrete and not get involved with Mafia ? That did not deter me in making my choice out of the binary one offered. I do know the worlds of construction and the Mafia, independently for different reasons. I was at one time a Teamster during the era of the Danny Green bombings here in Cleveland. I will admit that I actually have some respect for the Mafia, based upon what I know. I do know that Trump can direct the FBI to investigate anything he wants and am puzzled as to why he hasn't yet, given all that there is. But we have just installed a new director, whom I know very little about. So I have to wait and see on that before I conclude that Trump would hang himself if he directed more far reaching investigations. That and I am convinced that the FBI has been at the very least politicized and no longer capable of conducting impartial investigations of political figures. Thanks for your input and now back to Russia, Russia, Russia, already in progress ...
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LowPhreak
Location: Divided Corporate States of Neo-Feudal Murikka, Inc. Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 18, 2017 - 11:41pm |
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kcar wrote:
I remember your references to Binney and his claims about the NSA's total access to the DNC's servers and Podesta's emails. I'm not disputing his claim (IIRC I watched a video on YouTube of Binney making that claim, and another of a FOX News show making a passing reference to Binney's claim), but I don't recall hearing or seeing anyone else backing Binney up. "However, many are unaware that Trump as President has the power to order any information declassified, and to share it with whoever he wants. So Trump can order the declassification of all information which the NSA has on the Democratic party (DNC and Podesta) emails."
Given that the investigations into Russia's involvement in our election have
1. bogged the Trump administration down,
2. opened public discussion about charges related to obstruction of justice and conspiracy pointed at Don and Don, jr., and
3. eroded public trust in Trump,
it's clearly in the best interests of an innocent Donald Trump to declassify evidence of hacking into the DNC's servers. And yet Trump has made no such move or explained why he hasn't. That doesn't automatically make him guilty of anything, but I don't think Americans are being snowed by an "MSM propaganda campaign."
Our intelligence agencies concluded that the Russian government, all the way up to Putin, was intent on disrupting our election. Given your intelligence background, perhaps you paid closer attention to opinions within the intelligence community that dissented from that conclusion. I don't recall hearing about significant disagreements. IIRC there was widespread consensus on the matter. There was no Dick Cheney or Doug Feith pushing the NSA or other agencies towards a desired conclusion.
That opinion from our intelligence community about the intentions and actions of the Russian government came forth well before the more recent story of Don, jr. meeting with a Russian lawyer promising damaging information about HRC. It's pretty clear to me that the emails released by Trump, jr. are only the beginning of a story about Russian tampering and Trump-campaign collusion. There may be nothing more to that story, but let's wait and see: Bob Mueller's investigation has just begun, and people in Trump's administration leak information like a colander. I see that emailed reachout to Don jr. as just as another way for the Russian government to disrupt our election.
1. Given Trump's failure to unmuzzle the NSA in such fashion as to allow the agency to show who/what hacked the DNC servers,
2. Trump's rash attempts to get Comey's investigation of Mike Flynn's possible involvement with Russian operatives quashed,
3. the emails pointing to Trump jr's attempt to collude with Russians,
4. and the long string of lies from Kushner, Trump et al. about communications with Russians,
I very much doubt that this whole matter is much ado about nothing.
You can look into other NSA whistleblowers such as Thomas Drake, J. Kirk Weibe, Ed Loomis, (all former high ranking NSA personnel) and former Congressional aide in charge of NSA oversight, Diane Roark. All of them have said similar to what Binney has, and all of them have appeared with him in various interviews and discussions and corroborate his info on NSA. Easy to find on YouTube and elsewhere, even PBS did a Frontline episode a few years ago with Weibe and Drake, et al. If you're going to argue with the likes of a Bill Binney, I suggest you pack a big lunch. You'll need it. If you don't think the public is being snowed, as you put it, by a propaganda campaign after the info I've given and is easily searched elsewhere, then I doubt anything would convince you. There can be any number of reasons why Trump hasn't forced NSA to turn over the DNC and Podesta data, one of which could simply be that they have unsavory info on Trump or those in the admin. that could be leaked; another could be that he fears for his life if he discloses the DNC/Podesta info. It might also lead into the Seth Rich issue. The NSA knows everything that goes in and out of this country re communications, even though as Binney and the others have said it is illegal and unconstitutional. They certainly have the goods on the Dems and anything Trump has done in the past several years. There's also more here and here. All of which makes your assumptions about the intel agencies wishful thinking at best. There were only 4 out of 17 agencies that reluctantly agreed with what is actually a NSA leak, and that based on "best conclusions", not verifiable evidence, and after a charade was presented that ALL agencies agreed, ("widespread consensus") when they actually did not. I also have no confidence in Bob Mueller. My problem with Mueller is that after Comey, I don't trust any FBI director at this time (unless he/she were a proven non-partisan, unimpeachable, independent law enforcement officer), especially one that was appointed by GW Bush and the Neo-Cons only a week before 9/11 and never conducted a proper crime scene investigation on it. Just for starters, Mueller allowed the physical evidence of a very important crime scene to be destroyed, such as all of the steel and debris to be carted away immediately and shipped to Asia for melting down, among other egregious actions (or non-actions). That is not a conspiracy "theory", it is a fact. By that alone Mueller is already disqualified. No, I won't get into the whole 9/11 can of worms but that is one example of why Mueller cannot be trusted here. He's just the guy you want to get a desired result, as he proved 15 years ago.
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kcar
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Posted:
Jul 18, 2017 - 10:45pm |
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LowPhreak wrote: I'll give a couple of examples of former intel people that probably know a helluva lot more about this than anyone on RP forums. I say this as a former U.S. Army Intel Analyst myself, which I left in 1981. (BTW, spare me the mindless "thank you for your service" jingoism. It doesn't mean a thing in this day of American rogue state antics and war crimes that the people regurgitating such faux-patriotism have ignored.)
You want to "support our troops"? Number One: get them to hell out of the Middle East conflicts. 16 years is quite enough. Next, rehire the 50,000 personnel that the VA is short on, and fund it properly — take it out of the Pentagon budget, and stop giving money to Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, and KBR, et al. Only then will those slogans mean a goddamned thing.
First, I'd like to agree with what Craig Murray the former Brit intel officer and ambassador said,
"I do not support Donald Trump. I do support truth. There is much about Trump that I dislike intensely. Neither do I support the neo-liberal political establishment in the USA. The latter’s control of the mainstream media, and cunning manipulation of identity politics, seeks to portray the neo-liberal establishment as the heroes of decent values against Trump. Sadly, the idea that the neo-liberal establishment embodies decent values is completely untrue."
...that that is also my position. Trump is a disgusting embarrassment to the U.S. and IMO is only in this for his and his family's enrichment and aggrandizement. He's a huckster from NY that has been in bed with the Mafia for decades, and has a long record of ne'er do well there (which itself begs the question of why didn't the MSM 'swiftboat' him on that during the campaign?). The Clintons and establishment Democrats are no better, both are corrupt to the core. BOTH parties are merely two sides of the same oligarchy, and this whole kerfluffle is but an internecine fight between them for ultimate control of the direction of U.S. hegemony.
The intel agencies have not publicly shared any credible and verifiable evidence one way or the other about Russian hacking of the Democratic email. That is a fact.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/07/russiagate-stink-without-secret.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/11/us-insiders-not-russia-leaked-clinton-emails.html
There are appropriate links in both of those articles. However, many are unaware that Trump as President has the power to order any information declassified, and to share it with whoever he wants. So Trump can order the declassification of all information which the NSA has on the Democratic party (DNC and Podesta) emails. The man who created the NSA’s global electronic data-gathering system, William Binney, told Washington’s Blog that if the DNC and Podesta were hacked, the NSA would already have the data in their files proving who did it.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/12/tell-russia-hacked-election.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/12/creator-nsas-global-surveillance-system-calls-b-s-russian-hacking-report.html
Therefore, if Trump is innocent on this issue, his best chance at avoiding impeachment is order the NSA to declassify its data on the “hacking” of the DNC’s servers and Podesta emails. His enemies would be much better off pursuing the Qatar issue as I mentioned a couple of pages ago, as I certainly would if I were in a position to make it front and center.
What's upsetting is that otherwise sensible people are buying this whole MSM propaganda campaign - without any critical thinking or due investigation - while nearly ignoring other more important problems facing the country. I remember your references to Binney and his claims about the NSA's total access to the DNC's servers and Podesta's emails. I'm not disputing his claim (IIRC I watched a video on YouTube of Binney making that claim, and another of a FOX News show making a passing reference to Binney's claim), but I don't recall hearing or seeing anyone else backing Binney up. "However, many are unaware that Trump as President has the power to order any information declassified, and to share it with whoever he wants. So Trump can order the declassification of all information which the NSA has on the Democratic party (DNC and Podesta) emails."
Given that the investigations into Russia's involvement in our election have 1. bogged the Trump administration down, 2. opened public discussion about charges related to obstruction of justice and conspiracy pointed at Don and Don, jr., and 3. eroded public trust in Trump, it's clearly in the best interests of an innocent Donald Trump to declassify evidence of hacking into the DNC's servers. And yet Trump has made no such move or explained why he hasn't. That doesn't automatically make him guilty of anything, but I don't think Americans are being snowed by an "MSM propaganda campaign."
Our intelligence agencies concluded that the Russian government, all the way up to Putin, was intent on disrupting our election. Given your intelligence background, perhaps you paid closer attention to opinions within the intelligence community that dissented from that conclusion. I don't recall hearing about significant disagreements. IIRC there was widespread consensus on the matter. There was no Dick Cheney or Doug Feith pushing the NSA or other agencies towards a desired conclusion. That opinion from our intelligence community about the intentions and actions of the Russian government came forth well before the more recent story of Don, jr. meeting with a Russian lawyer promising damaging information about HRC. It's pretty clear to me that the emails released by Trump, jr. are only the beginning of a story about Russian tampering and Trump-campaign collusion. There may be nothing more to that story, but let's wait and see: Bob Mueller's investigation has just begun, and people in Trump's administration leak information like a colander. I see that emailed reachout to Don jr. as just as another way for the Russian government to disrupt our election.
1. Given Trump's failure to unmuzzle the NSA in such fashion as to allow the agency to show who/what hacked the DNC servers,
2. Trump's rash attempts to get Comey's investigation of Mike Flynn's possible involvement with Russian operatives quashed,
3. the emails pointing to Trump jr's attempt to collude with Russians,
4. and the long string of lies from Kushner, Trump, Trump jr et al. about communications with Russians,
I very much doubt that this whole matter is much ado about nothing.
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LowPhreak
Location: Divided Corporate States of Neo-Feudal Murikka, Inc. Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 18, 2017 - 9:03pm |
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islander wrote: Reading all this, it's like you think there are more than two sides to the issue(s).
< adds LowPhreak to the list of people I could have a beer with > There is certainly more than one side to it, but both sides are in it for U.S. world hegemony. One is the Clinton/Dem Party/Neo-Liberals with their friends in the NSA and other intel agencies, who want to make Russia a vassal state, as they've done to so many others. The other is the Trump gang and GOP/Neo-Cons who see China as the main impediment first.
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islander
Location: West coast somewhere Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 18, 2017 - 8:51pm |
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LowPhreak wrote: I'll give a couple of examples of former intel people that probably know a helluva lot more about this than anyone on RP forums. I say this as a former U.S. Army Intel Analyst myself, which I left in 1981. (BTW, spare me the mindless "thank you for your service" jingoism. It doesn't mean a thing in this day of American rogue state antics and war crimes that the people regurgitating such faux-patriotism have ignored.)
You want to "support our troops"? Number One: get them to hell out of the Middle East conflicts. 16 years is quite enough. Next, rehire the 50,000 personnel that the VA is short on, and fund it properly — take it out of the Pentagon budget, and stop giving money to Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, and KBR, et al. Only then will those slogans mean a goddamned thing.
First, I'd like to agree with what Craig Murray the former Brit intel officer and ambassador said,
"I do not support Donald Trump. I do support truth. There is much about Trump that I dislike intensely. Neither do I support the neo-liberal political establishment in the USA. The latter’s control of the mainstream media, and cunning manipulation of identity politics, seeks to portray the neo-liberal establishment as the heroes of decent values against Trump. Sadly, the idea that the neo-liberal establishment embodies decent values is completely untrue."
...that that is also my position. Trump is a disgusting embarrassment to the U.S. and IMO is only in this for his and his family's enrichment and aggrandizement. He's a huckster from NY that has been in bed with the Mafia for decades, and has a long record of ne'er do well there (which itself begs the question of why didn't the MSM 'swiftboat' him on that during the campaign?). The Clintons and establishment Democrats are no better, both are corrupt to the core. BOTH parties are merely two sides of the same oligarchy, and this whole kerfluffle is but an internecine fight between them for ultimate control of the direction of U.S. hegemony.
The intel agencies have not publicly shared any credible and verifiable evidence one way or the other about Russian hacking of the Democratic email. That is a fact.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/07/russiagate-stink-without-secret.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/11/us-insiders-not-russia-leaked-clinton-emails.html
There are appropriate links in both of those articles. However, many are unaware that Trump as President has the power to order any information declassified, and to share it with whoever he wants. So Trump can order the declassification of all information which the NSA has on the Democratic party (DNC and Podesta) emails. The man who created the NSA’s global electronic data-gathering system, William Binney, told Washington’s Blog that if the DNC and Podesta were hacked, the NSA would already have the data in their files proving who did it.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/12/tell-russia-hacked-election.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/12/creator-nsas-global-surveillance-system-calls-b-s-russian-hacking-report.html
Therefore, if Trump is innocent on this issue, his best chance at avoiding impeachment is order the NSA to declassify its data on the “hacking” of the DNC’s servers and Podesta emails. His enemies would be much better off pursuing the Qatar issue as I mentioned a couple of pages ago, as I certainly would if I were in a position to make it front and center.
What's upsetting is that otherwise sensible people are buying this whole MSM propaganda campaign - without any critical thinking or due investigation - while nearly ignoring other more important problems facing the country.
Reading all this, it's like you think there are more than two sides to the issue(s). < adds LowPhreak to the list of people I could have a beer with >
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LowPhreak
Location: Divided Corporate States of Neo-Feudal Murikka, Inc. Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 18, 2017 - 8:29pm |
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VV wrote: No proof that Russia hacked DNC? What branch of government intelligence are/were you employed by that led you to this alternate conclusion?
I'll give a couple of examples of former intel people that probably know a helluva lot more about this than anyone on RP forums. I say this as a former U.S. Army Intel Analyst myself, which I left in 1981. (BTW, spare me the mindless "thank you for your service" jingoism. It doesn't mean a thing in this day of American rogue state antics and war crimes that the people regurgitating such faux-patriotism have ignored.) You want to "support our troops"? Number One: get them to hell out of the Middle East conflicts. 16 years is quite enough. Next, rehire the 50,000 personnel that the VA is short on, and fund it properly — take it out of the Pentagon budget, and stop giving money to Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, and KBR, et al. Only then will those slogans mean a goddamned thing. First, I'd like to agree with what Craig Murray the former Brit intel officer and ambassador said, "I do not support Donald Trump. I do support truth. There is much about Trump that I dislike intensely. Neither do I support the neo-liberal political establishment in the USA. The latter’s control of the mainstream media, and cunning manipulation of identity politics, seeks to portray the neo-liberal establishment as the heroes of decent values against Trump. Sadly, the idea that the neo-liberal establishment embodies decent values is completely untrue."...that that is also my position. Trump is a disgusting embarrassment to the U.S. and IMO is only in this for his and his family's enrichment and aggrandizement. He's a huckster from NY that has been in bed with the Mafia for decades, and has a long record of ne'er do well there (which itself begs the question of why didn't the MSM 'swiftboat' him on that during the campaign?). The Clintons and establishment Democrats are no better, both are corrupt to the core. BOTH parties are merely two sides of the same oligarchy, and this whole kerfluffle is but an internecine fight between them for ultimate control of the direction of U.S. hegemony. The intel agencies have not publicly shared any credible and verifiable evidence one way or the other about Russian hacking of the Democratic email. That is a fact. http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/07/russiagate-stink-without-secret.html http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/11/us-insiders-not-russia-leaked-clinton-emails.html There are appropriate links in both of those articles. However, many are unaware that Trump as President has the power to order any information declassified, and to share it with whoever he wants. So Trump can order the declassification of all information which the NSA has on the Democratic party (DNC and Podesta) emails. The man who created the NSA’s global electronic data-gathering system, William Binney, told Washington’s Blog that if the DNC and Podesta were hacked, the NSA would already have the data in their files proving who did it. http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/12/tell-russia-hacked-election.html http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/12/creator-nsas-global-surveillance-system-calls-b-s-russian-hacking-report.html Therefore, if Trump is innocent on this issue, his best chance at avoiding impeachment is order the NSA to declassify its data on the “hacking” of the DNC’s servers and Podesta emails. His enemies would be much better off pursuing the Qatar issue as I mentioned a couple of pages ago, as I certainly would if I were in a position to make it front and center. What's upsetting is that otherwise sensible people are buying this whole MSM propaganda campaign - without any critical thinking or due investigation - while nearly ignoring other more important problems facing the country.
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haresfur
Location: The Golden Triangle Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 18, 2017 - 8:56am |
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oldviolin wrote: In '75 I was sent to Ft.Ord California to among other things set for deployment to Viet Nam, but being that the withdrawal had already begun I served my time there wilting in limbo and chasing up and down Highway 1 on my motorcycle looking for the next adventure. At the end of '76 I and my motorcycle were shipped off to Germany to fight the cold war. Good thing I had hot blood; or was it? I did manage to ride that motorcycle down a section of the ancient Roman road through a field of tall grass, refreshing in verdant youth. What does this have to do with Trump? Not a damned thing. What is lowly will be lofted...that which sinks to remain there...war and all the ancient pavement man has constructed to arrive...
I just tuned in and the raft said OV had posted to this thread. I thought, "This I gotta see." You did not disappoint.
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islander
Location: West coast somewhere Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 18, 2017 - 8:56am |
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oldviolin wrote: In '75 I was sent to Ft.Ord California to among other things set for deployment to Viet Nam, but being that the withdrawal had already begun I served my time there wilting in limbo and chasing up and down Highway 1 on my motorcycle looking for the next adventure. At the end of '76 I and my motorcycle were shipped off to Germany to fight the cold war. Good thing I had hot blood; or was it? I did manage to ride that motorcycle down a section of the ancient Roman road through a field of tall grass, refreshing in verdant youth. What does this have to do with Trump? Not a damned thing. What is lowly will be lofted...that which sinks to remain there...war and all the ancient pavement man has constructed to arrive...
< like >
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oldviolin
Location: esse quam videri Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 18, 2017 - 8:18am |
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Prodigal_SOB wrote:
Back in the good old cold war days when people would tell me that we and the Russians each had enough bombs to blow up the entire planet twelve times over I would always tell them "Yes, but look at who we're putting in charge of it." I figured that around a quarter of us were going to survive. After working for DoD for more than twenty years I raised it to at least a third. It's always been a very comforting thought.
In '75 I was sent to Ft.Ord California to among other things set for deployment to Viet Nam, but being that the withdrawal had already begun I served my time there wilting in limbo and chasing up and down Highway 1 on my motorcycle looking for the next adventure. At the end of '76 I and my motorcycle were shipped off to Germany to fight the cold war. Good thing I had hot blood; or was it? I did manage to ride that motorcycle down a section of the ancient Roman road through a field of tall grass, refreshing in verdant youth. What does this have to do with Trump? Not a damned thing. What is lowly will be lofted...that which sinks to remain there...war and all the ancient pavement man has constructed to arrive...
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Prodigal_SOB
Location: Back Home Again in Indiana Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 18, 2017 - 7:54am |
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aflanigan wrote:Another take on the potential scope, and potential effectiveness, of the Russian interference in the 2016 election. The interview makes a good point: Sometimes we demonize politicians by absurdly ascribing unrealistic levels of competence to them, to the point of sounding like wide-eyed conspiracists (just recall how many opposed to Obama ascribed superhuman levels of capability to him and his administration to support far fetched accusations). No political machine runs as smoothly as it's skeptics would like us to believe (well, except for Jrzy's salsa cartel). The fact that the Russian effort was likely to be ham-handed and somewhat inept does not in any way attenuate the seriousness of Trump officials' (Flynn, Don Jr., Sessions, Manafort, etc.) efforts towards collusion, nor Trump's efforts to interfere with the investigation of this collusion. The Dots are Never Going to Connect Back in the good old cold war days when people would tell me that we and the Russians each had enough bombs to blow up the entire planet twelve times over I would always tell them "Yes, but look at who we're putting in charge of it." I figured that around a quarter of us were going to survive. After working for DoD for more than twenty years I raised it to at least a third. It's always been a very comforting thought.
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aflanigan
Location: At Sea Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 18, 2017 - 7:23am |
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Another take on the potential scope, and potential effectiveness, of the Russian interference in the 2016 election. The interview makes a good point: Sometimes we demonize politicians by absurdly ascribing unrealistic levels of competence to them, to the point of sounding like wild-eyed conspiracists (just recall how many opposed to Obama ascribed superhuman levels of capability to him and his administration to support far fetched accusations). No political machine runs as smoothly as it's skeptics would like us to believe (well, except for Jrzy's salsa cartel). The fact that the Russian effort was likely to be ham-handed and somewhat inept does not in any way attenuate the seriousness of Trump officials' (Flynn, Don Jr., Sessions, Manafort, etc.) efforts towards collusion, nor Trump's efforts to interfere with the investigation of this collusion. The Dots are Never Going to Connect
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kcar
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Posted:
Jul 17, 2017 - 9:18pm |
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VV wrote: First off. All of the agencies agreed in their assessment of high confidence in the following: We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments. You chose to pull out verbiage from a sub-bullet under that finding where there was a slight difference in confidence on whether those actions were meant to specifically discredit Clinton and help Trump.The bottom line is that there is unified agreement there that Russia meddled in the election. To expect verbiage such as "proof" or "beyond all proof" is ludicrous. This was primarily a cyber crime. Is Putin going to let us send investigators over to Russia to collect evidence (laptops, severs, hard drives) or interrogate people to establish a beyond-all-doubt case? Think not. I will say again. If you feel more knowledgeable on all of this or are in possession of material that disproves the findings please provide it. You are trying to poke holes in it because the verbiage/terminology isn't strong enough for you. Unfortunately, those amount to pretty small holes. I'm sorry if I am more prone to believe our intelligence agencies' assessment over your (or the President's) say-so. I believe that all Senators and Congressmen have accepted these findings.
I appreciate that at least you found a credible source for the article you previously posted. I would believe if Robert Muller feels it important to access the server... he will do so. Do you know if he has made that request and was it rebuffed?
No I'm not a truther.
Not to fan the flames of this particular disagreement but I thought you and kurtster might want to see this FOX News report on the testimony of Admiral Mike Rogers, Director of the NSA: NSA chief explains 'discrepancy' over claim that Russia sought to boost Trump NSA Director Adm. Mike Rogers cast a dash of doubt Tuesday on the intelligence community's conclusion that Russia-tied hackers sought to help Donald Trump in the 2016 election, explaining for the first time in public testimony why his agency had only "moderate confidence" in that judgment. Testifying before a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, Rogers affirmed he and the NSA were highly confident the Russians sought to hurt Hillary Clinton in the election. But Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., asked Rogers – who also heads U.S. Cyber Command — why the NSA differed on the related conclusion about Trump in the Jan. 6 intelligence report on alleged Russian interference in the election. That conclusion stated that the Russian government “aspired to help President-elect Trump’s election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him.” The FBI and CIA backed that with high confidence, but the NSA only held that judgment with “moderate confidence.” Cotton noted that fellow Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., during the hearing called Trump “Russia’s preferred candidate” and asked Rogers to “explain the discrepancy.” “I wouldn’t call it a discrepancy, I’d call it an honest difference of opinion between three different organizations and in the end I made that call,” Rogers said. He added that when he looked at the data, for each of the other judgments there were multiple sources and he could exclude every other alternative rationale. But for this particular conclusion, “it didn’t have the same level of sourcing and the same level of multiple sources,” he said. He noted that he still agreed with the judgment, but he wasn’t at the same confidence level as CIA Director John Brennan and FBI Director James Comey. Probed further by Sen. Tim Kaine, D-Va. — who was Clinton’s running mate – Rogers clarified that while he was highly confident the Russians wanted to prevent Clinton from winning, and to undercut her effectiveness if she did win, he was only moderately confident the Russians actively wanted Trump to win. The FBI, CIA and NSA were all in complete agreement about the Clinton-related conclusion in the report, which stated: “Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency.”
As for the issue of whether Russians hacked the DNC server, I point you both to this Wired.com article. I have to ask though, kurster: if Russia didn't hack the DNC servers, who did? Please don't tell me you think it was Seth Rich. That fantasy is so twisted and cruel. Feds’ Damning Report on Russian Election Hack Won’t Convince Skeptics ON FRIDAY, THE Office of the Director of National Intelligence finally released a declassified report on Russia’s role in influencing the US election. And though it offers the most detailed official analysis yet of Russia’s operations, critics in the cybersecurity community say it lacks the still-secret evidence needed to persuade skeptics that analysis is true.
The ODNI’s 25-page report (embedded below) from US intelligence agencies lays out a vast Russian intelligence operation that extends from hacking both Democratic and Republican targets to propaganda campaigns to troll-fueled social media disinformation. It re-asserts the intelligence community’s findings that the Kremlin is behind breaches of the Democratic National Committee, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, Hillary Clinton’s campaign, and even state election board websites. And the express intention of those operations, the report states, was to not only disrupt the American electoral process, but to elect Donald Trump. “Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency,” the report reads. “We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments.” Even so, the report leaves out the much hoped-for technical evidence that informed these conclusions. In its “Scope and Sourcing” section, the report explains that this evidence exists, but can’t be declassified. And that means the report won’t satisfy the majority of the cybersecurity community that believes Russia hacked Democratic targets but has demanded more evidence, let alone the diehard deniers of the Kremlin’s fingerprints. “Seeing more of the context in which this happened does make me a little more trusting that this really was Russia,” says Robert Graham, an analyst for the cybersecurity firm Erratasec who has closely followed the Russian hacking investigation. “But knowing what data they probably have, they could have given us more details. And that really pisses me off.” ...But that cards-on-the-table approach, which likely would have sacrificed intelligence sources and methods in favor of more public transparency, didn’t make it to the final report.
...In terms of proving the core claim that Russia hacked American political targets, though, Friday’s report is sure to leave any skeptic not privy to classified briefings briefings unconvinced: It fails to include even the already public evidence visible to the cybersecurity community over the last six months, which drew a thick dotted line from the DNC hack to the Kremlin. A hacker calling himself Guccifer 2.0, for instance, in June claimed to be a lone Romanian hacker responsible for the breach. But the stolen DNC files he published on the web—and also said he’d leaked to WikiLeaks—contained telltale Russian-language error messages. A piece of malware known as X-Agent was used in both the DNC hack and previous attacks long believed to be Russian intelligence operations. And an analysis of the URL shortening service used by the hacker who stole the Gmail password of Clinton staffer John Podesta shows that the same account was used to target more than 5,000 other Gmail accounts, including Russia-focused journalists and authors, and the spouses of American military officials. Early leaks from a classified version of the report revealed some of the evidence intelligence agencies have to implicate Russia. Unnamed intelligence officials told the Washington Post that US agents had intercepted the communications of senior Russian officials celebrating Trump’s win. In another leak to Reuters, intel officials said that they’d identified the intermediary who had passed files stolen by Russian hackers to WikiLeaks.
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Steely_D
Location: Biscayne Bay Gender:
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Posted:
Jul 17, 2017 - 4:36pm |
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Of course, no one - not even his supporters - expect him to show the strength of character it takes to divest of foreign production so that his wares are made by Americans.
Face it: Goldman Sachs in his cabinet, his children and in-law as government advisers, his properties as government meeting places...This President has no shame, no sense of ethics. This Presidency has literally nothing to do with #MAGA and everything to do with increasing his wealth. His supporters think it's about draining the swamp or whatever, but he'll take his profits, leave the job, and privately enjoy the successful business move he pulled off - including lifetime Secret Service at taxpayers' expense.
Well done, folks. #MAGA
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