Assuming this is provocative rhetoric . . . but I will address it quickly as if it were a serious proposal.
So, your reasoning is that the criminal offense of selling drugs in the country — if you are a citizen or at least have status — does not deserve the death penalty, but the criminal offense of smuggling drugs into the country to be sold — if you are not a citizen or do not have status — does deserve the death penalty?
You also lost me in terms of logic by saying that smuggling drugs into the country is voluntary and the risk is known. Is not the same true of selling drugs in the country? Also true for many other crimes — voluntary and risk of criminal prosecution and penalty known.
Pretty much because it would never happen in the first place. Cruel and unusual punishment and all that.
Just reacting to the reactions that take this proposal as possible in the first place.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Mar 20, 2018 - 3:31pm
kurtster wrote:
So is there something wrong with stating that if you smuggle drugs or traffic human beings into our country the penalty is death ? The crime(s) are purely voluntary and the consequences for being caught are also known. Seems like the risk / reward is pretty clear.
How we might deal with it internally would be an entirely different manner, but for anyone bringing it in, well don't get caught. Can't say you didn't know what you were doing.
I think this would slow down all kinds of activities that no one wants without more than just writing some words on some paper and meaning it. Doesn't cost a single cent.
Won't affect anyone who is already here. Won't get anymore people arrested than already are being in the course of any other day. The way people are dealt with sneaking in won't change. It will only depend on what you bring with you when you sneak in. It's a choice freely made.
Life would improve rather than get worse.
Or do we sympathize with the criminals ?
Assuming this is provocative rhetoric . . . but I will address it quickly as if it were a serious proposal.
So, your reasoning is that the criminal offense of selling drugs in the country — if you are a citizen or at least have status — does not deserve the death penalty, but the criminal offense of smuggling drugs into the country to be sold — if you are not a citizen or do not have status — does deserve the death penalty?
You also lost me in terms of logic by saying that smuggling drugs into the country is voluntary and the risk is known. Is not the same true of selling drugs in the country? Also true for many other crimes — voluntary and risk of criminal prosecution and penalty known.
(...) Final thought on this topic—which unfortunately pertains to a lot of policy discussions these days: why are we debating everything Douchebag Don says as if his thoughts are serious policy proposals? He's a mental muppet. He watches Fox and latches onto what he sees on TV as if it's accurate and relevant. (...)
It might be rhetorical, but mainly because the followers of the cult compulsively spread and justify the BS as if it's God's word.
(...) Some countries where drug trafficking carries the death penalty – such as China and Iran – still have big drug problems, says John Ryan, the CEO of drug research and advocacy organisation Pennington Institute.
"The scale of people who get caught drug trafficking and the scale of the drug market proves most people think they will get away with it and are prepared to play Russian roulette."
Foreign Minister Julie Bishop was also sceptical. "I don't believe that executing people is the answer to solving the drug problem and certainly the trafficking of drugs in and out of Indonesia," she told Sky News this week.
Jeffrey Fagan, who provided expert testimony during a constitutional challenge against the death penalty in 2007, said drug offenders are prone to "hyperdiscounting".
"Their reasoning in the face of threats of harsh punishment is skewed."
If the death penalty did deter drug traffickers, it would suggest that supply would reduce in the particular country, pushing up prices. Drug use would then also fall.
But a study of the experience of Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia between 1999 and 2005, a time when Singapore and Malaysia were executing heavily and Indonesia was not, shows that drugs were significant cheaper in Singapore and Malaysia. Drug use also rose in both countries and remained more prevalent in Singapore than Indonesia.
"During this era, 73 persons were executed in Singapore (including more than half who were drug offenders), compared to two in Indonesia," Kagan said. "Yet drug trafficking was increasing and drug prices were lower in Singapore." (...)
"The scale of people who get caught drug trafficking and the scale of the drug market proves most people think they will get away with it and are prepared to play Russian roulette."
Most people who commit serious crimes don't think they'll get caught and so aren't deterred by harsh punishments.
There are also serious questions about the punishment fitting the crime.
I am amazed by the stupidity of people willing to take dangerously powerful drugs for fun. In this country, we seem to have forgotten the need to discourage demand. I'm not calling for harsher sentences for drug users, but I do think that local communities and the federal government need to steer kids away from drugs when the kids approach their teens. My guess is that most people's illegal drug habits or willingness to do illegal drugs get formed before they hit 25. From what I've read, that's the pattern with smoking cigarettes.
Final thought on this topic—which unfortunately pertains to a lot of policy discussions these days: why are we debating everything Douchebag Don says as if his thoughts are serious policy proposals? He's a mental muppet. He watches Fox and latches onto what he sees on TV as if it's accurate and relevant. Where are the leaders in the Democratic party who could drive policy discussions? I won't bring up the GOP in Congress since they are complete toadying idiots.
(...) Some countries where drug trafficking carries the death penalty – such as China and Iran – still have big drug problems, says John Ryan, the CEO of drug research and advocacy organisation Pennington Institute.
"The scale of people who get caught drug trafficking and the scale of the drug market proves most people think they will get away with it and are prepared to play Russian roulette."
Foreign Minister Julie Bishop was also sceptical. "I don't believe that executing people is the answer to solving the drug problem and certainly the trafficking of drugs in and out of Indonesia," she told Sky News this week.
Jeffrey Fagan, who provided expert testimony during a constitutional challenge against the death penalty in 2007, said drug offenders are prone to "hyperdiscounting".
"Their reasoning in the face of threats of harsh punishment is skewed."
If the death penalty did deter drug traffickers, it would suggest that supply would reduce in the particular country, pushing up prices. Drug use would then also fall.
But a study of the experience of Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia between 1999 and 2005, a time when Singapore and Malaysia were executing heavily and Indonesia was not, shows that drugs were significant cheaper in Singapore and Malaysia. Drug use also rose in both countries and remained more prevalent in Singapore than Indonesia.
"During this era, 73 persons were executed in Singapore (including more than half who were drug offenders), compared to two in Indonesia," Kagan said. "Yet drug trafficking was increasing and drug prices were lower in Singapore." (...)
So is there something wrong with stating that if you smuggle drugs or traffic human beings into our country the penalty is death ? Or do we sympathize with the criminals ?
Those are the only two choices possible? I choose cake. Start at 4:47 although it's all fun.
So is there something wrong with stating that if you smuggle drugs or traffic human beings into our country the penalty is death ? The crime(s) are purely voluntary and the consequences for being caught are also known. Seems like the risk / reward is pretty clear.
How we might deal with it internally would be an entirely different manner, but for anyone bringing it in, well don't get caught. Can't say you didn't know what you were doing.
I think this would slow down all kinds of activities that no one wants without more than just writing some words on some paper and meaning it. Doesn't cost a single cent.
Won't affect anyone who is already here. Won't get anymore people arrested than already are being in the course of any other day. The way people are dealt with sneaking in won't change. It will only depend on what you bring with you when you sneak in. It's a choice freely made.
It's also just that sort of blanket solution that he offers and he knows his base likes to hear, similar to: "I would bomb the $h!t out of them" or "Mexico will pay for the wall".
It's also just that sort of blanket solution that he offers and he knows his base likes to hear, similar to: "I would bomb the $h!t out of them" or "Mexico will pay for the wall".
It's also just that sort of blanket solution that he offers and he knows his base likes to hear, similar to: "I would bomb the $h!t out of them" or "Mexico will pay for the wall".
