The approval is expected to pave the way for a series of vaccination requirements by public and private organizations who were awaiting final regulatory action before putting in effect mandates. Federal and state health officials are also hoping that an approved vaccine will draw interest from some Americans who have been hesitant to take one that was only authorized for emergency use, a phenomenon suggested by recent polling.
If I'm parsing the above correctly then you're not spreading a lie because you're only spreading it here. Is RP your test market before you take this on the road?
I strongly disagree. I investigated to the best of my ability. This was not shared anywhere but here, by me, not even in conversation. It was posted here for discussion, for feedback. Not as propaganda. Had I shared this on FB or twitter or whatever or spoke about in public as I believe, then yes you could make that case. But that is not the case here.
Seriously? This is the best you can do?
If I'm parsing the above correctly then you're not spreading a lie because you're only spreading it here. Is RP your test market before you take this on the road?
And it is a lie. You were shown it was a lie in simple terms, and you defended it. For...practice?
Are you angling for a spot as press secretary for when Trump gets reinstated?
This comes down to a matter of trust. Since 4th or 5th grade (1960), I forget which because I had the same teacher and classroom for both, the government has been lying to me. Lying to me and telling me what I cannot put in my body and even their version of why. That is when I saw my first drug education movie. Marihuana, it makes you want to rape and kill. It may seem like a joke now some 60 years later, but it was serious as a heart attack back then. Long story short, I shortly found out later in 8th (1965) grade that it does not. And all of the shit and lies and penalties that have come with this part of my life since and are now finally beginning to change.
No, this is not a matter of trust, especially not of the government. This is a matter of facing objective reality square in the face, closing your eyes tight, and shouting "Go away! I won't believe in you!"
The death toll from covid, the hospitalization rate, the overflowing ICUs, the people wheezing on respirators (especially among the unvaccinated) are verifiable facts. You can count the bodies, you can ask the doctors and nurses yourself.
Those things are what convincing people vaccines are full of scary-sounding chemicals from China mean. Vaccines that literally billions of people around the planet, far from the evil clutches of Dr. Fauci, have taken without the terrifying consequences you are warning us against.
Maybe you only convinced yourself. Maybe you didn't even convince yourself, and just threw that dirty diaper of a claim against the wall to see what kind of stain it made, to declare your allegiance to a political tribe.
If that's the case I will definitely struggle to stay polite.
Now, we have the very same government telling me what I must put in my body like I am property of the government and I am supposed to say why sure, where do I get this stuff you are trying to make me take ?
Did you know that same government also publishes tables of sunrise and sunset times, lists of places you can take your recyclables, and tide tables? Will you stand on the beach and defy the waves, denying the water rising around you, because the government told you it would happen?
And I almost forgot to mention a most critical part of all of this. The total immunity that vaccine makers have against any prosecutions over liabilities and harm that their product may cause.
Yes, we have a legislative branch that recognizes the harm our liability system does to critical public health measures (like vaccines) yet is too cowardly to fix it. It applied a band-aid to the problem. Better than nothing, but far from a comprehensive fix.
I do not pretend to know or infer who you or what you trust regarding the government. But in regards to this discussion of the vaccine / pandemic, you are coming off to me as a trusting government shill, ready to stop any discussions that goes against what it as an entity says we need to do, or else, using demonization as part of that process, or at the very least epic hyperbole ...
Maybe not Chinese stealth graphene oxide, but there was a problem with Chinese Heparin about 10 or so years ago. Must have slipped past your radar. I remember it and all that poison pet food and toxic drywall and lead in children's toys...
You better get rid of everything in your environment that says "Made in China" right now! I've heard they use top secret paranoia-inducing chemicals in almost everything.
Getting vaccinated has amplified Kurtster's Government Distrust Superpower! Maybe it's the Chinese stealth graphene oxide doing its work?
Maybe not Chinese stealth graphene oxide, but there was a problem with Chinese Heparin about 10 or so years ago. Must have slipped past your radar. I remember it and all that poison pet food and toxic drywall and lead in children's toys...
.. except it is not just government communications we are talking about here but the received wisdom of the entire medical profession, not just in the US but globally.
and even if there was some Brave New World disinformation campaign going on, that doesn't change the fact that the vaccines obviously work when it comes to reducing the numbers of people getting severely ill and/or dying. So why sow distrust about something that is obviously working?
Do you want these people to die?
You're acting like having a conversation of this kind in a small group of people who know each other in the middle of nowhere is the equivalent of shouting FIRE !! in a crowded theatre ...
..Since 4th or 5th grade (1960), I forget which because I had the same teacher and classroom for both, the government has been lying to me. Lying to me and telling me what I cannot put in my body and even their version of why. ..
I am supposed to trust the government after all I have experienced over the past 60 years ? Really ? I see censorship of anything that goes against the grain of what the government, corporate world and media wants regarding this pandemic and all that it entails.
.. except it is not just government communications we are talking about here but the received wisdom of the entire medical profession, not just in the US but globally.
and even if there was some Brave New World disinformation campaign going on, that doesn't change the fact that the vaccines obviously work when it comes to reducing the numbers of people getting severely ill and/or dying. So why sow distrust about something that is obviously working?
The author cites this as proof that there is none of the compound in question, present.
You are quite correct. There is no proof that all vaccines everywhere do not contain graphene oxide. The thesis of the headline is, while almost undoubtedly correct, not proven by the contents.
Of course...it can't be. There is also no proof that vaccines don't contain Eye of Newt, or plutonium, or the ghost of Robert Lewis Stevenson. That is called proving a negative, an impossible task—and calling for such is a common logical fallacy.
For instance, prove you're not under the pay and control of Vladimir Putin, posting disinformation in order for gullible Americans to take lethally stupid medical advice in order to kill off as many of us as possible.
You can't. There is no amount of evidence that will prove that this is not happening. You can say that there is no evidence of it actually happening, which is true—but the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It can still be true even if we can't prove it true. All we can prove is that it hasn't been proved...yet.
I well understand disproving a negative and on that we agree, 100%
Lazy8 wrote:
I think a stronger claim is also merited: the article also proves that the author of the claim is utterly full of sh!t, spreading panic and doubt among scientifically illiterate people about something that could literally save their lives. I don't know her motives and I don't care. She shows, at very least, a reckless disregard for the truth—and under the circumstances this is evil.
Evil that you are enabling. You're spreading a lie, a lie that can kill people.
I strongly disagree. I investigated to the best of my ability. This was not shared anywhere but here, by me, not even in conversation. It was posted here for discussion, for feedback. Not as propaganda. Had I shared this on FB or twitter or whatever or spoke about in public as I believe, then yes you could make that case. But that is not the case here.
Lazy8 wrote:
(Remember cyclamates ?)
I do. Did you know they are still available for sale and human consumption in the rest of the world, including the EU? Because they are perfectly safe in the doses that humans will encounter them. A useful product was taken off the market in the US by junk science, and this probably contributes in some measure to the epidemic of type 2 diabetes here.
Not that any of this matters in this case, other than to demonstrate that lies about health kill.
I'm not going to respond to the rest of the dust you flung in the air because I've spent enough time on this and I'm afraid I won't stay polite.
This comes down to a matter of trust. Since 4th or 5th grade (1960), I forget which because I had the same teacher and classroom for both, the government has been lying to me. Lying to me and telling me what I cannot put in my body and even their version of why. That is when I saw my first drug education movie. Marihuana, it makes you want to rape and kill. It may seem like a joke now some 60 years later, but it was serious as a heart attack back then. Long story short, I shortly found out later in 8th (1965) grade that it does not. And all of the shit and lies and penalties that have come with this part of my life since and are now finally beginning to change.
Along the way, I learned about vaccinations and the armed forces. If you enlisted or were drafted, you became government property with no rights to your body. You were vaccinated for whatever they saw fit, as long as it was FDA approved, that is. Few were paying attention to these as they stood in line and got their air injections of inoculations. You became the test lab for government experiments with little to zero regard for future consequences. Not the same. but similar as an example, Agent Orange. Oh my, the lies that were told about this stuff. Oh and in my backyard ... Ft. Ord quarantined Meningitis probe credited to ES Star Now the one thing I have not seen mentioned in any of the articles I found regarding this vivid memory was how the Army was disposing the infected mattresses. They were selling them off as surplus to various charity type organisations which resulted in a spread of the meningitis throughout the SF Bay Area. We, as kids became very scared by this mysterious and deadly thing that got a local Army base shutdown.
Here is another article from the NIH, dated March, 1965 which does mention one civilian infection, but this study was conducted in the middle of the outbreak, before the mattress problem came light. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1515912/
Now, we have the very same government telling me what I must put in my body like I am property of the government and I am supposed to say why sure, where do I get this stuff you are trying to make me take ?
And I almost forgot to mention a most critical part of all of this. The total immunity that vaccine makers have against any prosecutions over liabilities and harm that their product may cause.
I am supposed to trust the government after all I have experienced over the past 60 years ? Really ? I see censorship of anything that goes against the grain of what the government, corporate world and media wants regarding this pandemic and all that it entails. The message is submit or else. And the fact checkers. The totally neutral and objective fact checkers. Not. Half the stuff that I have bothered to look at when someone refers me to Snopes and the like does not stand up to careful scrutiny. They are hardly the last, trusted word on much of anything that matters to me.
I do not pretend to know or infer who you or what you trust regarding the government. But in regards to this discussion of the vaccine / pandemic, you are coming off to me as a trusting government shill, ready to stop any discussions that goes against what it as an entity says we need to do, or else, using demonization as part of that process, or at the very least epic hyperbole ...
Evil that you are enabling. You're spreading a lie, a lie that can kill people.
The author cites this as proof that there is none of the compound in question, present.
You are quite correct. There is no proof that all vaccines everywhere do not contain graphene oxide. The thesis of the headline is, while almost undoubtedly correct, not proven by the contents.
Of course...it can't be. There is also no proof that vaccines don't contain Eye of Newt, or plutonium, or the ghost of Robert Lewis Stevenson. That is called proving a negative, an impossible taskâand calling for such is a common logical fallacy.
For instance, prove you're not under the pay and control of Vladimir Putin, posting disinformation in order for gullible Americans to take lethally stupid medical advice in order to kill off as many of us as possible.
You can't. There is no amount of evidence that will prove that this is not happening. You can say that there is no evidence of it actually happening, which is trueâbut the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It can still be true even if we can't prove it true. All we can prove is that it hasn't been proved...yet.
So does the article debunking the claim that there is graphene oxide in vaccines prove that there is no graphene oxide in vaccines? No. All it proves is that the evidence cited that there is graphene oxide in vaccines does not prove that there is.
I think a stronger claim is also merited: the article also proves that the author of the claim is utterly full of sh!t, spreading panic and doubt among scientifically illiterate people about something that could literally save their lives. I don't know her motives and I don't care. She shows, at very least, a reckless disregard for the truthâand under the circumstances this is evil.
Evil that you are enabling. You're spreading a lie, a lie that can kill people.
(Remember cyclamates ?)
I do. Did you know they are still available for sale and human consumption in the rest of the world, including the EU? Because they are perfectly safe in the doses that humans will encounter them. A useful product was taken off the market in the US by junk science, and this probably contributes in some measure to the epidemic of type 2 diabetes here.
Not that any of this matters in this case, other than to demonstrate that lies about health kill.
I'm not going to respond to the rest of the dust you flung in the air because I've spent enough time on this and I'm afraid I won't stay polite.
So what do you do with a group of people who are putting everyone at risk through their own ignorance, guided by people they elected to "represent" them and protect their interests?
Logic doesn't work Science doesn't work Community doesn't work Responsibility doesn't work Safety of loved ones doesn't work Healthcare exhaustion doesn't work even dead friends and family doesn't work
Should we just give up?
I understand the frustration. Here in Canada-land, I often get the impression that conservative politicians want to privatize social wealth as quickly as possible and if by doing so, they set up crack cocaine like booms and busts in the economy, they don't care. Oh? Do you really care about family and community? Or do you just care about you and yours and nobody else?
I would not give up. And I do believe the demonstration effect — dead friends and family members — is working to some extent. Comparisons of US outcomes with other country outcomes might be helping.
No easy answer here. Please note how unsuitable people like me would be for public office.
I worry about this yawning socio-economic divide as causing all kinds of political problems going forward. Not just for the USA but for all kinds of countries. Many developing, poor countries (e.g., Peru) have been experiencing similar problems long before this pandemic showed up. Now the information technology shock and a rapidly changing world are causing similar problems in rich countries.
Aside from patience and empathy, I have all kinds of 'little suggestions', and zero grand solutions.
On the ball countries like Israel are experiencing difficulties at the moment. So are others that have been a model of social cooperation, at least compared to the USA.
As there has been a glaring partisan divide on approaches to the pandemic in the USA, Blame the Republicans sounds about right to me. That said, spending a lot of air time finger-pointing the Republicans might be counter-productive.
So what do you do with a group of people who are putting everyone at risk through their own ignorance, guided by people they elected to "represent" them and protect their interests?
Logic doesn't work
Science doesn't work
Community doesn't work
Responsibility doesn't work
Safety of loved ones doesn't work
Healthcare exhaustion doesn't work
even dead friends and family doesn't work
On the ball countries like Israel are experiencing difficulties at the moment. So are others that have been a model of social cooperation, at least compared to the USA.
As there has been a glaring partisan divide on approaches to the pandemic in the USA, Blame the Republicans sounds about right to me. That said, spending a lot of air time finger-pointing the Republicans might be counter-productive.
