It is quite simple really once they develop an effective and safe vaccine that I feel comfortable with, then I will make the personal choice to decide if I want to put that substance in my body. It is a race between that and when the government forces my company against their will to fire me since they have already have in place an excellent plan since we work from home that in order to come back to the office we must supply vaccine proof. This works fine for me as I will wait until an effective suitable vaccine which normally takes years to develop; not one year and then take that when I am comfortable. I am also waiting for the inevitable addition of natural immunity that has been acquired by those that have had covid rightfully achieve the same status as the ineffective against immunity present vaccination provides. There is no convincing me to get vaccinated, this is a non starter. I will proceed with a private health matter when I damn well please thank you and am quite unconcerned with your or anyone else's opinion on what I do with my body. If this makes me selfish and a bad person, that's just your opinion man. If I am forced with threat of unemployment to take a vaccine I am uncomfortable with, it will be with force and coercion and will never forgive all of those who have no issue with that. I am more disappointed in my fellow citizens who are comfortable with the force and coercion than the government that is imposing it. I expect this from governments, not the people. This is so upsetting to me, I really have nothing more to say about the subject. There is nothing more to be said.
It took a LONG time, but you finally got to the honest answer.
So what are you hesitant about and what would it take to convince you to get vaccinated?
It is quite simple really once they develop an effective and safe vaccine that I feel comfortable with, then I will make the personal choice to decide if I want to put that substance in my body. It is a race between that and when the government forces my company against their will to fire me since they have already have in place an excellent plan since we work from home that in order to come back to the office we must supply vaccine proof. This works fine for me as I will wait until an effective suitable vaccine which normally takes years to develop; not one year and then take that when I am comfortable. I am also waiting for the inevitable addition of natural immunity that has been acquired by those that have had covid rightfully achieve the same status as the ineffective against immunity present vaccination provides. There is no convincing me to get vaccinated, this is a non starter. I will proceed with a private health matter when I damn well please thank you and am quite unconcerned with your or anyone else's opinion on what I do with my body. If this makes me selfish and a bad person, that's just your opinion man. If I am forced with threat of unemployment to take a vaccine I am uncomfortable with, it will be with force and coercion and will never forgive all of those who have no issue with that. I am more disappointed in my fellow citizens who are comfortable with the force and coercion than the government that is imposing it. I expect this from governments, not the people. This is so upsetting to me, I really have nothing more to say about the subject. There is nothing more to be said.
Here's another lesson in Americana for me, I guess. Had to look up the reference to understand exactly what it means.
Apparently it means that I missed the point. The point being?
My comment about evolutionary fitness was in reference to the law of the jungle economic policy statements that can come out of the mouths of Republican and other conservative politicians.
Nope, it means that something horrible had happened, but someone was behaving as though they were unaware of the magnitude of what had happened.
âOne million dead, but hey - evolutionary fitness!â
There are many vaccine hesitant people who are concerned about mrna technology and the ticking time bomb of microscopic blood clots. Those who truly are concerned about the health and well being of us all navigating through this pandemic would instead of ridiculing, mocking and attempting to take away the liberties of these people instead be promoting alternatives to mrna to complete the objective of increased vaccination rates of the general public. Scorn, derision, force and coercion is no way to achieve a goal when there are other alternatives:
...
Will there be a group of anti vaxxers that refuse to get vaccinated regardless? Of course there will, but there numbers are far less than the msm would have you believe. The overwhelming majority of the unvaxxed are hesitant, not right wing political anti vaxxers. If we started including those that have contracted covid in the same category as the vaccinated, concentrating much more effort towards with an open mind instead of blocking and censoring all safe methods of treatment and being generally more honest to the public instead of politicizing and demonizing then much more would get done without the permanent scars of division of achieving our goal of leveling off the deadly nature of the pandemic to acceptable levels whilst allowing our society to at least return to some semblance of normal human interaction and commerce.
Now, I expect for these words to go on deaf ears and laser attention will go to attacking me for being so ignorant as to not trust Pfizer even given their stellar track record of honesty and integrity. Yea that'll learn em. Now, you may resume your belittling, force, coercion and overall feeling of moral superiority.
Be aware that, even if you are vaccine hesitant, not anti-vax, there is a lot of shit thrown around by the anti-vax people to encourage your hesitancy. They are trying to throw up as many questions and roadblocks as possible to keep people from deciding to get vaccinated. That makes it difficult to convince you to get vaccinated. Particularly when you don't trust Pfizer, don't trust the government agencies, don't trust the press, etc. So even using the best available information will still be an uphill struggle, I expect.
I, to had concerns about getting vaccinated, but wouldn't say I was vaccine hesitant. It was more that it is scary to do something new with known side effects, even if rationally I know the risks are much greater with catching covid. I'm in the category where up until now, the only available vaccine for me was AstraZenica. That's one that has a risk of a very rare form of blood clot that they only noticed because it was so unusual. If it had been a common form it would have been lost against the backdrop of the normal rate of clot occurrence. I think J&J had the same issue. It may well be that any non-mRNA could turn up the same thing, just due to the mechanism of developing a resistance to covid, I don't know.
There is a much higher risk of blood clots from covid itself, but that still doesn't make anyone feel good about actively taking on a risk that isn't fun like, say, sky diving. So, I stepped back, did my best to compare the pros of minimising the risk of getting covid vs. the cons of the rare side effect and got my couple of jabs. Sure glad I did. It is clear that in Australia, vaccination is the only way to get to anything resembling covid-normal with New South Wales letting delta get out of hand and spread to Victoria.
Australia has a Nobel-laureate in epidemiology who is doing a good job of explaining why most of the criticisms of mRNA is incorrect, but I don't know if that will help convince you.
So what are you hesitant about and what would it take to convince you to get vaccinated?
ANCHORAGE â There was one bed coming available in the intensive care unit in Alaskaâs largest hospital.
It was the middle of the night, and the hospital, Providence Alaska Medical Center in Anchorage, had been hit with a deluge of coronavirus patients. Doctors now had a choice to make: Several more patients at the hospital, most of them with Covid-19, were in line to take that last I.C.U. spot. But there was also someone from one of the stateâs isolated rural communities who needed to be flown in for emergency surgery.
Who should get the final bed?
Dr. ââSteven Floerchinger gathered with his colleagues for an agonizing discussion. They had a better chance of saving one of the patients in the emergency room, they determined. The other person would have to wait.
That patient died.
âThis is gut-wrenching, and I never thought Iâd see it,â said Dr. ââFloerchinger, who has been in practice for 30 years. âWe are taxed to a point of making decisions of who will and who will not live.â
Since that night, more grim choices have had to be made as Alaska confronts what is currently the nationâs worst coronavirus outbreak. Nearly two years after the virus began circulating in the United States, some of the scenes here on the countryâs northern frontier echo the darkest early days of the pandemic: testing supplies are depleted, patients are being treated in hallways and doctors are rationing oxygen. With emergency rooms overwhelmed, the governor has asked hundreds of medical workers to fly in from around the country to help. (...)
ANCHORAGE â There was one bed coming available in the intensive care unit in Alaskaâs largest hospital.
It was the middle of the night, and the hospital, Providence Alaska Medical Center in Anchorage, had been hit with a deluge of coronavirus patients. Doctors now had a choice to make: Several more patients at the hospital, most of them with Covid-19, were in line to take that last I.C.U. spot. But there was also someone from one of the stateâs isolated rural communities who needed to be flown in for emergency surgery.
Who should get the final bed?
Dr. ââSteven Floerchinger gathered with his colleagues for an agonizing discussion. They had a better chance of saving one of the patients in the emergency room, they determined. The other person would have to wait.
That patient died.
âThis is gut-wrenching, and I never thought Iâd see it,â said Dr. ââFloerchinger, who has been in practice for 30 years. âWe are taxed to a point of making decisions of who will and who will not live.â
Since that night, more grim choices have had to be made as Alaska confronts what is currently the nationâs worst coronavirus outbreak. Nearly two years after the virus began circulating in the United States, some of the scenes here on the countryâs northern frontier echo the darkest early days of the pandemic: testing supplies are depleted, patients are being treated in hallways and doctors are rationing oxygen. With emergency rooms overwhelmed, the governor has asked hundreds of medical workers to fly in from around the country to help. (...)
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Oct 3, 2021 - 11:34am
sirdroseph wrote:
Do the research on the many concerns of J and J. I have. I also have personal anecdotal experiences with the adverse side effects that loved ones and friends have experienced with that particular vaccine. I think it is telling you assume that I have not and did not know such basic information.
The Biden administration has slowed the distribution of life-saving monoclonal antibody therapy for people afflicted with China virus, also known as COVID-19, to states in the southeast, including Texas, Florida, Alabama, as well as others nationwide. Biden continues to play power games and politics with Governors of red states.He is punishing them, and their citizens, for their mask and vaccination policies as well as for criticizing his unconstitutional mandates. Biden is literally playing with people's lives. This policy will ramp up demand, cause artificial shortages, and result in some people not receiving the treatment that they need. A real president would never do this. Biden is not a true to the core American! He was bought lock stock and barrow. This is what happens when the government takes control of healthcare. The government decides who is to live or die. The socialists have taken control. Welcome to obama-biden care. Or is that "don't care?" We were better off under King George III.
âIt is like drink-drivingâ: Jürgen Klopp says anti-vaxxers endanger others + Klopp: âwe have 99% vaccinatedâ against Covid at Liverpool + Liverpool manager says Cityâs lack of strikers âluxury problemâ .... Few North Americans likely know Klopp. Most of us are not footballers though we should know and appreciate just how important futebol is in the rest of the world.
The analogy of anti-vaxxers to those who choose to consume alcohol and operate heavy machinery is a good one.
Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
Here's another lesson in Americana for me, I guess. Had to look up the reference to understand exactly what it means.
Apparently it means that I missed the point. The point being?
My comment about evolutionary fitness was in reference to the law of the jungle economic policy statements that can come out of the mouths of Republican and other conservative politicians.
Do the research on the many concerns of J and J. I have. I also have personal anecdotal experiences with the adverse side effects that loved ones and friends have experienced with that particular vaccine. I think it is telling you assume that I have not and did not know such basic information.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Oct 3, 2021 - 6:55am
sirdroseph wrote:
There are many vaccine hesitant people who are concerned about mrna technology and the ticking time bomb of microscopic blood clots. Those who truly are concerned about the health and well being of us all navigating through this pandemic would instead of ridiculing, mocking and attempting to take away the liberties of these people instead be promoting alternatives to mrna to complete the objective of increased vaccination rates of the general public. Scorn, derision, force and coercion is no way to achieve a goal when there are other alternatives:
“It will provide different options to vaccine recipients and the healthcare providers,” Inci Yildirim, MD, vaccinologist and pediatric infectious diseases specialist at Yale Medicine and associate professor of pediatrics and global health at the Yale School of Medicine, tells Verywell. “It may increase the acceptance as some people may have certain concerns for certain types of vaccines.”Unlike Pfizer or Moderna that made use of mRNA technology to develop their COVID-19 vaccines, Novavax took a well-established and older approach in making theirs. As a protein subunit vaccine, the Novavax vaccine injects a specific, isolated protein of the pathogen to trigger an immune response in the body.2 Some available vaccines for hepatitis B and pertussis currently use this technology.
Experts say that there may be people who are more willing to take this kind of vaccine instead. This type of shot may also cause fewer side effects for some subgroups or age groups.3
“In addition, we have experienced the challenges with supply shocks or shortages during the pandemic for almost everything including therapeutics and personal protective equipment,” Yildirim says. “Having different vaccines from different resources and producers might reduce the impact of these shortages on the speed of vaccine roll-out in the future.”
Will there be a group of anti vaxxers that refuse to get vaccinated regardless? Of course there will, but there numbers are far less than the msm would have you believe. The overwhelming majority of the unvaxxed are hesitant, not right wing political anti vaxxers. If we started including those that have contracted covid in the same category as the vaccinated, concentrating much more effort towards with an open mind instead of blocking and censoring all safe methods of treatment and being generally more honest to the public instead of politicizing and demonizing then much more would get done without the permanent scars of division of achieving our goal of leveling off the deadly nature of the pandemic to acceptable levels whilst allowing our society to at least return to some semblance of normal human interaction and commerce.
Now, I expect for these words to go on deaf ears and laser attention will go to attacking me for being so ignorant as to not trust Pfizer even given their stellar track record of honesty and integrity. Yea that'll learn em. Now, you may resume your belittling, force, coercion and overall feeling of moral superiority.
The J&J vaccine is not MRNA. If MRNA is the concern, those unvaccinated allegedly because of that concern could get the J&J vaccine.
They are also populations. Groups of people. If you want to compare them you need to compare across some sort of similarity, hold some variables constant. Otherwise what are you learning? The combined mass of all Chinese military veterans is higher than that of all the newborn infants in Oslo. So what?
Hence the graph I posted.
If the point was that the US is a very large country then job well done.
The percentage of excess mortality will likely correlate with population size. However, do (selected, similar) countries with roughly the same size populations have the same percentage of excess mortality?
The U.S. south is not a country, and neither is Europe. The USA is a country. As are the other wealthy nations.
They are also populations. Groups of people. If you want to compare them you need to compare across some sort of similarity, hold some variables constant. Otherwise what are you learning? The combined mass of all Chinese military veterans is higher than that of all the newborn infants in Oslo. So what?
I guess the normalized data to compare would be the reported deaths per 100,000 over the whole of the pandemic (though that usually doesn't include the excess deaths due to underreporting).
Hence the graph I posted.
However that misses the point they are trying to make about the current situation.
Percentage of excess deaths could work too.
If the point was that the US is a very large country then job well done.
