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Index » Radio Paradise/General » About RP » Paradise on fire - mandatory evacuations ordered Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
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westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Apr 5, 2019 - 3:25pm



 R_P wrote:
 


"Beyond the fact that Paradise is built in the forest or what is known as the Wildlands Urban Interface, several other factors contributed to the death total."

Yes, by all means, recognize that low-density suburbs pushing into semi-arid forests and automobiles are irreversible aspects of American culture.

Ecological arrogance =>  human weenie roast => learn nothing. 

On the bright side, Americans enjoy the lowest excise/green/Pigouvian/carbon taxes on fuel among all the rich OECD countries.   37% adult obesity rate.   Party on!   


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Apr 5, 2019 - 2:52pm

Paradise Lost: Reflections on the Camp Fire
I just visited the town of Paradise located on the slopes of the Cascade Range near Chico, California. The Camp Fire burned through Paradise last November (2018) killing 87 people, mostly older residents. Plus destroying 14000 homes and another 4800 structures (like commercial buildings). Another 637 structures were “damaged” bringing the total estimate by CAL FIRE of 19,336 structures destroyed or damaged. At least five public schools were ruined, part of a hospital, several churches among other destruction.

The Camp Fire is the deadliest wildfire in California history and one of the deadliest in the United States. By the time the fire was contained, it had burned an area of 153,336 acres.

Before the fire, Paradise was home to 27,000 people. Within six hours of the first ignition, some 90-95% (over 18800 structures) of the buildings in Paradise and the nearby community of Concow were reduced to rubble. (...)

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 - 7:50am



 BillG wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

It could also be a matter of insulation on a well fireproofed building keeping the internal heat down below the lowest flash point of something inside the building.  Or just plain luck.
 
In the Paradise fire, it seemed to be more luck than anything else. One street that I knew well had a dozen or so houses, all constructed at the same time, by the same contractor, using the same materials. One was unscathed, with just a little blistered paint. The houses on either side of it — and all of the others in the neighborhood — were obliterated, right down to the foundation. There was absolutely nothing special about that house or its lot. It must have been just some quirk of the winds, embers, etc.

 

And now the owners of the "surviving" house have to fight the insurance company to reinhabit a smoke and ash damaged home, with little value remaining.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 - 7:48am



 haresfur wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

It could also be a matter of insulation on a well fireproofed building keeping the internal heat down below the lowest flash point of something inside the building.  Or just plain luck.
 
Aussies have some sort of religious opposition to insulation. The now require window with some resistance to thermal shock, but double pane windows would double the resistance. Insanely expensive here because they aren't required. I recall reading that Colorado limits or at least recommends limited window pane size because that is less likely to crack from the heat. Friends who live out in the country have metal blinds that seal over the windows. I have sealed or put screen over most of the openings into my crawl space, but there is still a chance embers could find their way into edge of the metal roof. I should get plugs for the drain pipes so I can fill the gutters with water. Sprayers on the roof and under the eves would be a good idea. I have a huge water tank but it would only work until power goes out since I'm not about to stick around tending a generator.

 

I think the assumption
is that you'd fire up the generator and get the hell out.
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 19, 2019 - 7:48am



 kurtster wrote:

It could also be a matter of insulation on a well fireproofed building keeping the internal heat down below the lowest flash point of something inside the building.  Or just plain luck.
 
In the Paradise fire, it seemed to be more luck than anything else. One street that I knew well had a dozen or so houses, all constructed at the same time, by the same contractor, using the same materials. One was unscathed, with just a little blistered paint. The houses on either side of it — and all of the others in the neighborhood — were obliterated, right down to the foundation. There was absolutely nothing special about that house or its lot. It must have been just some quirk of the winds, embers, etc.

haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2019 - 11:23pm



 kurtster wrote:

It could also be a matter of insulation on a well fireproofed building keeping the internal heat down below the lowest flash point of something inside the building.  Or just plain luck.
 
Aussies have some sort of religious opposition to insulation. The now require window with some resistance to thermal shock, but double pane windows would double the resistance. Insanely expensive here because they aren't required. I recall reading that Colorado limits or at least recommends limited window pane size because that is less likely to crack from the heat. Friends who live out in the country have metal blinds that seal over the windows. I have sealed or put screen over most of the openings into my crawl space, but there is still a chance embers could find their way into edge of the metal roof. I should get plugs for the drain pipes so I can fill the gutters with water. Sprayers on the roof and under the eves would be a good idea. I have a huge water tank but it would only work until power goes out since I'm not about to stick around tending a generator.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2019 - 10:15pm

 haresfur wrote:


 westslope wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

I noticed that.  Kinda weird.  Amazing how some buildings went unscathed while everything else got leveled.  Hope they recover to a new normal, what ever that may be.
 

Yes, I would be curious to learn if there was any rhyme or reason to the houses that survived intact.    Up here in BC wildfire country, all houses surrounded by irrigated lawns/fields were saved.
 
Around here it is about playing the odds. There is a lot you can do to make your place fire ready. But some is just random. Embers can fly a km ahead of the main fire front. One of those in the wrong place can do you in. 
 
It could also be a matter of insulation on a well fireproofed building keeping the internal heat down below the lowest flash point of something inside the building.  Or just plain luck.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2019 - 7:10pm



 westslope wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

I noticed that.  Kinda weird.  Amazing how some buildings went unscathed while everything else got leveled.  Hope they recover to a new normal, what ever that may be.
 

Yes, I would be curious to learn if there was any rhyme or reason to the houses that survived intact.    Up here in BC wildfire country, all houses surrounded by irrigated lawns/fields were saved.
 
Around here it is about playing the odds. There is a lot you can do to make your place fire ready. But some is just random. Embers can fly a km ahead of the main fire front. One of those in the wrong place can do you in. 

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Feb 18, 2019 - 4:35pm



 kurtster wrote:

I noticed that.  Kinda weird.  Amazing how some buildings went unscathed while everything else got leveled.  Hope they recover to a new normal, what ever that may be.
 

Yes, I would be curious to learn if there was any rhyme or reason to the houses that survived intact.    Up here in BC wildfire country, all houses surrounded by irrigated lawns/fields were saved.
Prodigal_SOB

Prodigal_SOB Avatar

Location: Back Home Again in Indiana
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2019 - 4:00pm

 BillG wrote:
Yeah, really brings home the extent of the damage. And in a bizarre twist, if you zoom all the way in to street view (desktop version only) it suddenly pops back to the 'before' images.
 

  Yeah, street view is great.  I can make the interstate they built next door disappear with it too.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2019 - 2:50pm

 BillG wrote:

Yeah, really brings home the extent of the damage. And in a bizarre twist, if you zoom all the way in to street view (desktop version only) it suddenly pops back to the 'before' images.
 
I noticed that.  Kinda weird.  Amazing how some buildings went unscathed while everything else got leveled.  Hope they recover to a new normal, what ever that may be.
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2019 - 2:03pm



 kurtster wrote:
was poking around at work looking at maps and ended up here.  Satellite images of after the fire ...  
{#Meditate}


CLICKY
 
Yeah, really brings home the extent of the damage. And in a bizarre twist, if you zoom all the way in to street view (desktop version only) it suddenly pops back to the 'before' images.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2019 - 1:44pm



 kurtster wrote:
was poking around at work looking at maps and ended up here.  Satellite images of after the fire ...  
{#Meditate}


CLICKY
 

I know it wouldn't be any sort of guarantee but if I owned a pool, I'd sure as hell have a way to use it for protection. Some houses in the neighborhood also have water... above-ground pools? Cisterns? 
 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 18, 2019 - 1:10pm

was poking around at work looking at maps and ended up here.  Satellite images of after the fire ...  {#Meditate}

CLICKY
Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Oroville, Ca
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 17, 2019 - 8:38pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 Steely_D wrote:


 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

 
The paper said today that PG&E are filing for bankruptcy.

 
I had dinner with a friend who works for them, an ex-firefighter, a few months ago. He was certain they were doomed.

 

Yeah, and it's not just the electric. I sort of defend them over the fires even though they obviously were happy to let people say they weren't allowed to maintain a safe zone. But they were criminally stupid about their gas lines too.
 

As fucked up about their maintenance and all the other negative issues they sure help lower income people - They are incredibly generous with their discounts, working with people who can't pay their bills. They will do just about anything to avoid shutting off somebody's power. They really help us out. Most utilities will cut you off and send the collectors after tyour in a heartbeat, specially the . cable and comm companies. AT&T is a pitbull. Sorry. Shouldn't compare to animals - just plain asscocks. 
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 16, 2019 - 11:17am



 Steely_D wrote:


 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

 
The paper said today that PG&E are filing for bankruptcy.

 
I had dinner with a friend who works for them, an ex-firefighter, a few months ago. He was certain they were doomed.

 

Yeah, and it's not just the electric. I sort of defend them over the fires even though they obviously were happy to let people say they weren't allowed to maintain a safe zone. But they were criminally stupid about their gas lines too.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 16, 2019 - 10:38am



 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

 
The paper said today that PG&E are filing for bankruptcy.

 
I had dinner with a friend who works for them, an ex-firefighter, a few months ago. He was certain they were doomed.

miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 16, 2019 - 6:32am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

These fires are not new and have nothing to do with global warming.  


 

That's a bit of wishful thinking. Devastating fires used to be once a generation, give or take. Now they're 2 or 3 a year, simultaneous.

But yeah, PG&E. In a weird sort of flip-flop of your and my usual positions, I tend to blame the hippies, NIMBY landowners, newcomers and 7th-generation Californians: I remember lawsuit after lawsuit stopping PG&E from mowing their rights-of-way.
 
The paper said today that PG&E are filing for bankruptcy.

 

Yeah, it's interesting. Is ConEd going to buy it up? Who's going to run it? I assume it's a way for them to not pay out in the lawsuits but keep bringing the juice.
 

clue

vanguard owns about half of their muni debt


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jan 15, 2019 - 6:58pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Yeah, it's interesting. Is ConEd going to buy it up? Who's going to run it? I assume it's a way for them to not pay out in the lawsuits but keep bringing the juice.

 
I'm betting it winds up being a state-run utility.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 15, 2019 - 6:28pm



 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

These fires are not new and have nothing to do with global warming.  


 

That's a bit of wishful thinking. Devastating fires used to be once a generation, give or take. Now they're 2 or 3 a year, simultaneous.

But yeah, PG&E. In a weird sort of flip-flop of your and my usual positions, I tend to blame the hippies, NIMBY landowners, newcomers and 7th-generation Californians: I remember lawsuit after lawsuit stopping PG&E from mowing their rights-of-way.
 
The paper said today that PG&E are filing for bankruptcy.

 

Yeah, it's interesting. Is ConEd going to buy it up? Who's going to run it? I assume it's a way for them to not pay out in the lawsuits but keep bringing the juice.
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