Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Nov 6, 2020 - 5:32am
rgio wrote:
westslope wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Yes it is, appealing a court ruling to allow observers in to watch the counting process.
What are they trying to hide ?
Too bad that you are so new to elections kurtster.
So it's important that we agree on facts in the appeal.
Kurt, I assume your appeal is related to the Philadelphia counting, and the judgment in favor of the Trump campaign to allow observers to be closer.
The counting in PA is online live. We can all watch it from a distance. Sure, you can't see that much, but there are cameras everywhere. If you were in the building, there are CCTV's that you can see dozens of views.
Yesterday in court, the Trump lawyers asked that their 15 observers (in the building, and wandering but restricted to 20 feet from the workers) be allowed to get closer. The judge ruled that they could go to 6 feet.
Lawyers for the City of Philadelphia (sure, they're probably Democrats) originally filed an appeal out of concerns for the observers being "in the way" and being too close during the Pandemic. The City then decided to just get on with it and the counting re-started.
Your comment is conveniently lacking accuracy. Observers were always in the building...Trump's lawyers admitted that in court. What they wanted was to get closer. Why? Not because they are trying to see anything they couldn't see from 20 feet, they just want to create a sense of unfairness to support the President's narative that the election was being stolen.
Last night he proved he is unworthy of the job. There is no proof of fraud. NONE. It's over. Take the loss with some dignity and stop trying to destroy the country you profess to love.
Thank you for taking the time to break that down. I was not in a frame of mind to do so last night.
Yes it is, appealing a court ruling to allow observers in to watch the counting process.
What are they trying to hide ?
Too bad that you are so new to elections kurtster.
So it's important that we agree on facts in the appeal.
Kurt, I assume your appeal is related to the Philadelphia counting, and the judgment in favor of the Trump campaign to allow observers to be closer.
The counting in PA is online live. We can all watch it from a distance. Sure, you can't see that much, but there are cameras everywhere. If you were in the building, there are CCTV's that you can see dozens of views.
Yesterday in court, the Trump lawyers asked that their 15 observers (in the building, and wandering but restricted to 20 feet from the workers) be allowed to get closer. The judge ruled that they could go to 6 feet.
Lawyers for the City of Philadelphia (sure, they're probably Democrats) originally filed an appeal out of concerns for the observers being "in the way" and being too close during the Pandemic. The City then decided to just get on with it and the counting re-started.
Your comment is conveniently lacking accuracy. Observers were always in the building...Trump's lawyers admitted that in court. What they wanted was to get closer. Why? Not because they are trying to see anything they couldn't see from 20 feet, they just want to create a sense of unfairness to support the President's narative that the election was being stolen.
Last night he proved he is unworthy of the job. There is no proof of fraud. NONE. It's over. Take the loss with some dignity and stop trying to destroy the country you profess to love.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Nov 5, 2020 - 8:08pm
R_P wrote:
kurtster wrote:
That is the issue I originally raised before any further discussion went forward.
No, it's a reply (with a red herring) to someone else raising an issue/making a post. And you pretend to not know what Steeler was talking about, even though that is obvious. Thou doth protest too much.
Exactly. I took too many words to say what you succinctly stated. Thanks.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Nov 5, 2020 - 8:07pm
kurtster wrote:
That is the issue I originally raised before any further discussion went forward.
I just replied to your one word statement. Where in it did you raise any concerns about "Trumpâs declaration of massive fraud." ?
You are the one who changed the course of the discussion, not me. That is the point I raised from the beginning and you have consistently avoided even recognizing it and instead claiming I was avoiding something else that you never said to begin with. You are projecting.
Even Ray Charles could see what you are attempting to do here which is being dishonest in your handling of this conversation.
Good night.
My one-word post of âDisgracefulâ came almost immediately following Trumpâs statement declaring massive fraud in several states. If you are contending you did not know to what I was referring, well, that is your story. Your response then would be a non sequitur. Moreover, I cannot believe you seriously are maintaining that the observer issue is more important than Trumpâs declaration of massive fraud. You now inexplicably seem to be arguing that your issue is unrelated to the larger issue. I explained that your suspicions based on the lawsuit regarding observer access do not constitute evidence of fraud. That is addressing your side issue. Rgio addressed it as well. I have not researched it and do not intend to do so.
In sum, you are being disingenuous, and beginning to sound as desperate as Trump. The time has come. The con is coming to an end. History will judge him harshly for his behavior of the last few days. He is a loser. Not because he is going to lose this election, but because of his total lack of ethics and willingness to drag the country into an abyss.
That is the issue I originally raised before any further discussion went forward.
No, it's a reply (with a red herring) to someone else raising an issue/making a post. And you pretend to not know what Steeler was talking about, even though that is obvious. Thou dost protest too much.
You are 100% avoiding the discussion about blocking observers. What you mention above has nothing to do with this action.
The observers need no cause or evidence of anything to be present. They are lawfully allowed to be there from the very beginning of the process all the way through to its conclusion. Period.
No rabbit hole. Just the simple facts.
You must think that I am very stupid to continue with your obfuscation of the issue I am raising.
You are the one who asked: what do they have to hide?
The issue I raised is Trump’s declaration of massive fraud. You chose to avoid discussing that and focused on this side issue of a lawsuit regarding observers.
We shall see what evidence Trump provides in support of his statement that there is ongoing massive fraud in several states. I suspect it will be much the same as the ‘evidence” provided to support his claim that the 3 million more votes that Clinton received in 2016 were the result of fraud.
Let us review the original thought shall we ?
kurtster wrote:
steeler wrote:
Disgraceful.
Yes it is, appealing a court ruling to allow observers in to watch the counting process.
What are they trying to hide ?
That is the issue I originally raised before any further discussion went forward.
I just replied to your one word statement. Where in it did you raise any concerns about "Trump’s declaration of massive fraud." ?
You are the one who changed the course of the discussion, not me. That is the point I raised from the beginning and you have consistently avoided even recognizing it and instead claiming I was avoiding something else that you never said to begin with. You are projecting.
Even Ray Charles could see what you are attempting to do here which is being dishonest in your handling of this conversation.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Nov 5, 2020 - 7:27pm
kurtster wrote:
You are 100% avoiding the discussion about blocking observers. What you mention above has nothing to do with this action.
The observers need no cause or evidence of anything to be present. They are lawfully allowed to be there from the very beginning of the process all the way through to its conclusion. Period.
No rabbit hole. Just the simple facts.
You must think that I am very stupid to continue with your obfuscation of the issue I am raising.
You are the one who asked: what do they have to hide?
The issue I raised is Trumpâs declaration of massive fraud. In response, you chose to avoid discussing that and focused on this side issue of a lawsuit regarding observers.
We shall see what evidence Trump provides in support of his statement that there is ongoing massive fraud in several states. I suspect it will be much the same as the âevidenceâ provided to support his claim that the 3 million more votes that Clinton received in 2016 were the result of fraud.
Your man is an inveterate and unrepentant liar who has sunk to new lows. He is a disgrace. If there were any doubts about that, he removed them with his statement tonight.
Appealing a court order to let lawful observers actually do what they are legally supposed to do ?
Again, what are they trying to hide ? And why do you endorse the appeals by deliberately not commenting on them ?
Sorry to point this out, but for at least half of the country, there is a pandemic that is infecting more and more people every day. There are observers from both parties, but they were kept at a safe distance.
What exactly do you think people won't do with someone 6 feet away that the workers could get away with at 20 feet?
Appeal all you want. Send lawyers every 15 mins. The counts will eventually be known. Just stop it with the conspiracy theories and BS about fraud. There has been NOTHING ILLEGAL about the election process. Every other President ever would commend all of the state and local workers who helped keep our democracy viable in the face of a pandemic. Trump instead blames everyone for crimes which he has not a single bit of evidence. He continues to show he is only in it for himself. I guess the threat of prison will do that to you?
Knowing that he's imploding....pacing...yelling...calling everyone he can think of for help...angry....cursing...alone....is at least a small bit of solace for his 4 years of hate.
PS - None of this will matter tomorrow when he loses Arizona, Georgia and Pennsylvania. The final totals are likely to be 306 to 232. BYE DON
Appealing a court order to let lawful observers actually do what they are legally supposed to do ?
Again, what are they trying to hide ? And why do you endorse the appeals by deliberately not commenting on them ?
I am not interested, and in no mood, to go down rabbit holes with you. Trump has not just alleged but declared there has been massive fraud orchestrated by Democrats in several states. In a lawsuit, evidence would be be required. It obviously is not anywhere near enough to say, well, they seemed intent on not allowing observers so what are they trying to hide. That does not switch the burden of proof to those defending the counting of ballots to prove there was no fraud. It is incumbent on Trump to provide evidence of massive fraud in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Georgia — and maybe Arizona and Nevada and North Carolina.
it is way past time to stand for democracy.
You are 100% avoiding the discussion about blocking observers. What you mention above has nothing to do with this action.
The observers need no cause or evidence of anything to be present. They are lawfully allowed to be there from the very beginning of the process all the way through to its conclusion. Period.
No rabbit hole. Just the simple facts.
You must think that I am very stupid to continue with your obfuscation of the issue I am raising.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Nov 5, 2020 - 7:14pm
miamizsun wrote:
steeler wrote:
Carter Center Statement on Voting by Mail for 2020 U.S. Elections
May 06, 2020ATLANTA (May 6, 2020) â The United States faces a series of critical challenges because of the COVID-19 pandemic, including serious impediments to holding safe, secure, and inclusive elections in November. Many voters across the U.S. are likely to find themselves in areas where the pandemic has not abated and where the health risks involved in going to polling locations will be unacceptably high.
To address this threat, The Carter Center urges federal and state governments to expand access to vote-by-mail options and to provide adequate funding as quickly as possible to allow for the additional planning, preparation, equipment, and public messaging that will be required.
The nonpartisan 2005 Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, noted among its many findings and recommendations that because it takes place outside the regulated environment of local polling locations, voting by mail creates increased logistical challenges and the potential for vote fraud, especially if safeguards are lacking or when candidates or political party activists are allowed to handle mail-in or absentee ballots.
However, the Carter-Baker Commission found that where safeguards for ballot integrity are in place â for example in Oregon, where the entire state has voted by mail since 1998 â there was little evidence of voter fraud. The commissionâs main recommendations on vote-by-mail and absentee voting were to increase research on vote-by-mail (and early voting) and to eliminate the practice of allowing candidates or party workers to pick up and deliver absentee ballots. Fortunately, since 2005, many states have gained substantial experience in vote-by-mail and have shown how key concerns can be effectively addressed through appropriate planning, resources, training, and messaging.
âI urge political leaders across the country to take immediate steps to expand vote-by-mail and other measures that can help protect the core of American democracy â the right of our citizens to vote,â said former President Carter.
i think they're on the same page as barr no? and that this may be an exception for covid?
as i understand it or how it works here is that people request a ballot or request to start voting absentee
their ballot is sent to their address versus just using a list that may or may not be accurate and proactively sending them out without some sort of verification
am i close?
The point was that Barr was talking out of his ass when he characterized the report of the Carter/Baker commission. Otherwise known as distorting or lying.
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Nov 5, 2020 - 7:12pm
kurtster wrote:
And so are you.
Appealing a court order to let lawful observers actually do what they are legally supposed to do ?
Again, what are they trying to hide ? And why do you endorse the appeals by deliberately not commenting on them ?
I am not interested, and in no mood, to go down rabbit holes with you. Trump has not just alleged but declared there has been massive fraud orchestrated by Democrats in several states. In a lawsuit, evidence would be be required. It obviously is not anywhere near enough to say, well, they seemed intent on not allowing observers so what are they trying to hide. That does not switch the burden of proof to those defending the counting of ballots to prove there was no fraud. It is incumbent on Trump to provide evidence of massive fraud in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Georgia â and maybe Arizona and Nevada and North Carolina.
"Biden continues to close the gap with Trump in Georgia, where the margin has shrunk to 1,902 votes. The secretary of stateâs office has said that 16,105 ballots remain to be counted.
With more votes coming in from Monroe County in eastern Pennsylvania, Trumpâs margin in the state is down to 42,000 â with at least 208,000 ballots left to count statewide."
Carter Center Statement on Voting by Mail for 2020 U.S. Elections
May 06, 2020ATLANTA (May 6, 2020) â The United States faces a series of critical challenges because of the COVID-19 pandemic, including serious impediments to holding safe, secure, and inclusive elections in November. Many voters across the U.S. are likely to find themselves in areas where the pandemic has not abated and where the health risks involved in going to polling locations will be unacceptably high.
To address this threat, The Carter Center urges federal and state governments to expand access to vote-by-mail options and to provide adequate funding as quickly as possible to allow for the additional planning, preparation, equipment, and public messaging that will be required.
The nonpartisan 2005 Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, noted among its many findings and recommendations that because it takes place outside the regulated environment of local polling locations, voting by mail creates increased logistical challenges and the potential for vote fraud, especially if safeguards are lacking or when candidates or political party activists are allowed to handle mail-in or absentee ballots.
However, the Carter-Baker Commission found that where safeguards for ballot integrity are in place â for example in Oregon, where the entire state has voted by mail since 1998 â there was little evidence of voter fraud. The commissionâs main recommendations on vote-by-mail and absentee voting were to increase research on vote-by-mail (and early voting) and to eliminate the practice of allowing candidates or party workers to pick up and deliver absentee ballots. Fortunately, since 2005, many states have gained substantial experience in vote-by-mail and have shown how key concerns can be effectively addressed through appropriate planning, resources, training, and messaging.
âI urge political leaders across the country to take immediate steps to expand vote-by-mail and other measures that can help protect the core of American democracy â the right of our citizens to vote,â said former President Carter.
i think they're on the same page as barr no? and that this may be an exception for covid?
as i understand it or how it works here is that people request a ballot or request to start voting absentee
their ballot is sent to their address versus just using a list that may or may not be accurate and proactively sending them out without some sort of verification
Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth
Posted:
Nov 5, 2020 - 6:29pm
miamizsun wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Yes it is, appealing a court ruling to allow observers in to watch the counting process.
What are they trying to hide ?
remember what barr said?
Carter Center Statement on Voting by Mail for 2020 U.S. Elections
May 06, 2020
ATLANTA (May 6, 2020) â The United States faces a series of critical challenges because of the COVID-19 pandemic, including serious impediments to holding safe, secure, and inclusive elections in November. Many voters across the U.S. are likely to find themselves in areas where the pandemic has not abated and where the health risks involved in going to polling locations will be unacceptably high.
To address this threat, The Carter Center urges federal and state governments to expand access to vote-by-mail options and to provide adequate funding as quickly as possible to allow for the additional planning, preparation, equipment, and public messaging that will be required.
The nonpartisan 2005 Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, noted among its many findings and recommendations that because it takes place outside the regulated environment of local polling locations, voting by mail creates increased logistical challenges and the potential for vote fraud, especially if safeguards are lacking or when candidates or political party activists are allowed to handle mail-in or absentee ballots.
However, the Carter-Baker Commission found that where safeguards for ballot integrity are in place â for example in Oregon, where the entire state has voted by mail since 1998 â there was little evidence of voter fraud. The commissionâs main recommendations on vote-by-mail and absentee voting were to increase research on vote-by-mail (and early voting) and to eliminate the practice of allowing candidates or party workers to pick up and deliver absentee ballots. Fortunately, since 2005, many states have gained substantial experience in vote-by-mail and have shown how key concerns can be effectively addressed through appropriate planning, resources, training, and messaging.
âI urge political leaders across the country to take immediate steps to expand vote-by-mail and other measures that can help protect the core of American democracy â the right of our citizens to vote,â said former President Carter.
