buddy wrote:
 
There are bad people on both sides.

More impactful than COVID for the run-off is those who will be 18 by Jan 5 can vote.  There are roughly 23,000 18 year-olds who couldn't vote in November that can vote now.

 Steely_D wrote:
 
Characterized by suspiciousness, persecutory trends, or megalomania (take your pick)

File this under silly political question with no meaningful answer....

If more Republicans die of the COVID-19 virus between now and the Georgia Senate run-off elections in early January, will that favour the Republican or the Democratic Party candidates?

 Steely_D wrote:
 

Did you know, the human head weighs 10 pounds?

 Steely_D wrote:
 

lolololololol!

Say, have you heard  about Eric Swalwell (that guy who screamed endlessly about Russia & Trump!) and the Chinese spy?

Get better news sources.

 kurtster wrote:
 
Looking at what you currently say is important to you.

No you don't throw out the constitution because of a public health problem. But the courts have long recognized limits on constitutional rights. That whole shouting fire in a crowded theatre thing. Or the, no you aren't allowed to own a nuke thing. 

People accept all sorts of limits on their rights in times of war but it isn't written into the constitution that war gets a pass but pandemics don't. 

The problem is that pandemics suck. It sucks that people spread diseases that cause other people to die. It sucks that the spread multiplies so that more and more people have and spread the disease. And it especially sucks that people don't have the guts to do even the easy easier things to keep things somewhat in control.

I know that you have said you wear a mask, but that only does a little to reduce your risk unless most people wear masks. Mask wearing by most people when they can't socially distance or are in indoor spaces where the distance rules aren't good enough, does work to reduce transmission. You reduce transmission, you reduce the number of people who get covid and that reduces the number of people who end up in hospital and die. 

The trouble is that the republicans* aren't doing anything for these people and are blocking efforts to do things to mitigate the disaster. If they wanted to help, they should have sent more of the relief to the small businesses and to people directly affected rather than to large corporations that could weather the storm. I mean, it isn't great that large companies take a hit, because they do employ people. But the relief money didn't seem to make it down to the workers. 

*some republicans: remember the bipartisan woefully inadequate relief package that mitch is blocking.

There are plenty of examples in other countries to look to for ways that governments can reduce the impacts on these people. There are lots of issues with the Australian government response but the Jobseeker program made payments to businesses to keep people employed and payments to people who had lost their jobs. Did that mean that some people made choices not to accept low-paying jobs that weren't to their advantage (in their individual rights opinion)? Sure. Is that a problem because normal wages are too low? You can decide on that, but the fact is that the program mostly worked and people are better off because of it. It didn't mean all small businesses survived but it meant that more did. And now we are up to 41 days with no new cases or deaths. Do you have any idea how much that does for these people compared to uncontrolled covid spread?

It's a pandemic. You can have short term harm or lots of long term harm. Nobody wants to harm people unnecessarily, but ultimately it is about how to reduce the harm and get back to something resembling normal. Your side has no concept about how to do that and is not willing to do the things needed to help the population.

“That any member of any bar, let alone a member of the Supreme Court bar, could file such flimsy tripe in any court, let alone the Supreme Court, is an embarrassment to the legal profession. For public officials such as Paxton and his fellow Republican attorneys general to call for the wholesale disenfranchisement of the people of four states is an affront to the rule of law, an insult to an independent judiciary and a contempt of democracy.”

— George Conway, Op-Ed in today’s Washington Post

Oh no, not The Gimp!

“I may need to take back what I said about Rep. Kelly’s PA suit being the dumbest case I’ve ever seen filed on an emergency basis at the Supreme Court,” Rick Hasen, a law professor at the University of California, Irvine, wrote on the Election Law Blog. “This new one from the indicted Texas AG Ken Paxton … probably should win that prize.”

 rgio wrote:
 

Sir! Sir! Good sir!  I believe you have missed a key detail!

Do you understand WHY you have Texas joined by 18 states headed to SCOTUS — and what they list in their complaint?

 kurtster wrote:
 
Kurt, your loyalty is matched only by your ignorance.

The Constitution...which you throw around as if it was the Republican owner's manual says...

The CONSTITUTION gives the states the authority to run elections as they see fit.  Those states (many under Republican leadership) passed rules about the election process, which we followed in determining a winner.  Challenges in those states to the counts have been quickly and decisively thrown out.

Now comes Texas, who files a lawsuit against other states.  By law, those cases have to originate at the SCOTUS.  The first thing the court is going to look at is the harm done to Texas by the other states.  There is none.  Pennsylvania allowing mail-in votes hasn't harmed the people of Texas.  There is no basis for the filing.  The SCOTUS is reviewing it out of an abundance of caution, but it will not go anywhere.

Monday is the day that Congress has established for the electoral voting. Back to the Constitution for a moment...
 
That means that if the court decided to hear the case, the voting for the electoral college would have to be delayed for all states.  Given the significant impact on transition, the evidence in favor of Texas would have to be compelling...there is none.  The Constitution has spoken, and it's not on your side.

Your statements above are concerning because you literally have lost any sense of reason in favor of emotionally supporting the outcome you dearly want.  The Right should really stop using the Constitution as a shield because those who drafted it were smart enough to see you and your self-motivated leader coming.  It only exposes the scam, it won't enable it.

 Jiggz wrote:
 






"Also, and I am open to correction here, aren't Barr and the DOJ solely concerned with criminal matters?"

No. DOJ has a Civil Division:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

The United States Department of Justice Civil Division represents the United States, its departments and agencies, members of Congress, cabinet officers, and other federal employees. Its litigation reflects the diversity of government activities, involving, for example, the defense of challenges to Presidential actions; national security issues; benefit programs; energy policies; commercial issues such as contract disputes, banking insurance, patents, fraud, and debt collection; all manner of accident and liability claims; enforcement of immigration laws; and civil and criminal violations of consumer protection laws. Each year, Division attorneys handle thousands of cases that collectively involve billions of dollars in claims and recoveries. The Division confronts significant policy issues, which often rise to constitutional dimensions, in defending and enforcing various Federal programs and actions.



Barr's "To date" comment AFAICT was a followup to his decision around November 9 to loosen guidelines to DOJ attorneys  about investigating election fraud: 

Last month, Barr issued a directive to U.S. attorneys across the country allowing them to pursue any “substantial allegations” of voting irregularities before the 2020 presidential election was certified, despite no evidence at that time of widespread fraud.

That memorandum gave prosecutors the ability to go around longstanding Justice Department policy that normally would prohibit such overt actions before the election was certified. Soon after it was issued, the department’s top elections crime official announced he would step aside from that position because of the memo.

The "top elections crime official was Richard Pilger, head of the Elections Crime branch in DOJ's Public Integrity Section. 

The December 1 2020 article linked to above AFAICT provides the followup to those investigative efforts: 

Disputing President Donald Trump’s persistent, baseless claims, Attorney General William Barr declared Tuesday the U.S. Justice Department has uncovered no evidence of widespread voter fraud that could change the outcome of the 2020 election.

Barr’s comments, in an interview with the The Associated Press, contradict the concerted effort by Trump, his boss, to subvert the results of last month’s voting and block President-elect Joe Biden from taking his place in the White House.

Barr told the AP that U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but “to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”

The comments, which drew immediate criticism from Trump attorneys, were especially notable coming from Barr, who has been one of the president’s most ardent allies. Before the election, he had repeatedly raised the notion that mail-in voting could be especially vulnerable to fraud during the coronavirus pandemic as Americans feared going to polls and instead chose to vote by mail.

 kurtster wrote:
Likewise - I once took a look at something about this Q story, couldn't make any sense of it, fell asleep......whoever Q is, is entitled to their ideas and is free to publicise them but it's not my thing and I couldn't care less. I can't figure out if its a single person or a secret group numbering thousands....no idea and not interested. And what on earth is X-22?

And I agree - just let this thing play out according to the Constitution because there is provision made for all of this within it's pages. Test it. I think it's remarkable the depth of foresight it's creators had.

 VV wrote:
 
Just a quick note on the Barr thing, Veev - I think it would be worth reading Barr's actual statement. I saw further down the forum what amounted to a group chuckle that Barr had said that he'd seen nothing irregular.......what he actually said was "To date, I see no ........." . The important part that was redacted from most legacy media reporting was the "To date " part.
I think it does cast his statement in a slightly different light.
Also, and I am open to correction here, aren't Barr and the DOJ solely concerned with criminal matters?
From what I've seen all the suits filed thus far regarding the election have been civil suits and thus actually have no reason to cross Barr's desk. I don't think anyone has filed a criminal suit yet.
I think both of these are worthy of noting.

Back to the wristwatches for me...have a grand day!

 kurtster wrote:
 

"Nobody on your side is doing anything for these people. They are instead doing to them, harming them unnecessarily. "

Are you talking about Covid relief packages? The Democrats were pushing for a big package starting in March and again in September. Republicans wouldn't consider it. The GOP floated a grossly inadequate $500 billion proposal just to give Republican legislators up for a re-election a fig leaf to hide behind. 

As for government-imposed restrictions on the closure of businesses, yes those restrictions are impoverishing people and shuttering businesses. But our healthcare system is close to buckling. As I understand it, we have a nationwide shortage of hospital beds and staff due to Covid—see here and here. We got there by letting businesses like restaurants open up again and in part by listening to idiots like Trump who pretended the pandemic was almost over. 


House Democrats pass $3 trillion coronavirus relief package


FRI, MAY 15 2020
KEY POINTS

• House Democrats pass a $3 trillion coronavirus relief package.
• Republicans have opposed the bill, so it has little chance of becoming law.
• It includes relief for state and local governments, more direct payments, hazard pay for essential workers, an extension of the federal unemployment benefit and money for testing, among other provisions.

House Democrats prepare new $2.4 trillion stimulus plan with unemployment aid, direct payments


THU, SEP 24 2020
KEY POINTS

• House Democrats are putting together another coronavirus stimulus plan, which would cost about $2.4 trillion.
• The chamber could vote on the legislation, which would include unemployment benefits, direct payments, small business loans and airline aid, as soon as next week.
• Democrats aim to restart stalled aid talks with the White House.

Trump lost the election. That is as clear as night follows day. Bill Barr (who has had his nose up Trump’s ass since day one) confirmed that there was no widespread irregularity in the election and you can bet if there was one person who was motivated to find that smoking gun... it would be Barr. You would have better luck spotting a Yeti than proving mass voter fraud at this point.

It is criminal that Trump continues to try and spin his fairy tales on his minions who are more than willing to unthinkingly lap up the lies served in steaming buckets daily. You would think that there are more intelligent people inhabiting this earth but Trump’s cult-of-personality appears to be able to stifle rationality in quite a lot of people.  

The Coronavirus rages on and he continues to ignore it. Hey wasn’t Mike Pence leading that effort not that long ago? Has he taken a vacation because now might be a good time to continue that effort to at least pretend it has not been abandoned. 

Trump, Pence and the whole lot are a National joke and a f*cking disgrace.

 kurtster downplayed:
 
House Condemns QAnon Conspiracy Theories on Bipartisan Basis

 Steely_D wrote: 
I bet that the only people taking this QAnon person seriously are those on your side of this equation.

He or she or whoever it is has successfully rented space for free in your collective heads.  I don't ever see any references to this Q person other than here on these boards by people like you.  No one I know ever mentions Q.

I could care less about Q.  Q has got you all chasing your tails. 

You are not looking at the things that we are.  What you think should be important to us is only important to you.  That you believe that your POV is the only one that matters will be the undoing.  That you all don't want this to play all the way out according to how the Constitution dictates shows fear and weakness in your conviction that everything went according to Hoyle with this election.  If it did then there should be no objection to letting the process play out as written in the Constitution.

Let's make it clear, we do not throw out the Constitution because of a public health problem.  That is what is being attempted.  Look at the crap going on down south of you in L A with all of the restaurants and other small businesses.  People have had enough and are fighting back and now winning in the courts.  People are really, really angry and for reasons that you fail to understand or disagree with.  Nobody on your side is doing anything for these people.  They are instead doing to them, harming them unnecessarily.  The worst you can say about Trump on this is that he is only pretending to care.  Well no one on your side is even trying to pretend they care.  And you wonder why Trump still has support ?

 Steely_D wrote:
 
That's just as nuts/paranoid.

 Steely_D wrote:
 
From Kathleen Parker’s column in today’s Washington Post:

I can think of few who so richly deserved losing as Donald J. Trump — for his lack of character alone. If he managed some things well during his four years in the White House, he should get credit, possibly for removing barriers to the speedy development of the coronavirus vaccine. But he likely won’t be remembered for what little good he did. His poor sportsmanship upon losing fair and square has overwhelmed any public sympathy or the fare-thee-well extended to those who accept defeat gracefully.

Trump doesn’t just make himself look bad; he makes the country look bad. For this, he should be shuttled out of town riding a jackass backward, wearing a clown suit. He might take a few Republicans with him.