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mzpro5

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Location: Budda'spet, Hungry
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 13, 2012 - 6:02am

 hippiechick wrote:

The interpretation would not be "Though shalt not take another life"?

 



No.

The "murder" stipulation allows killing in the name of a righteous cause. Thus the Hebrews were "allowed" to kill those that stood in thier way to take over Canaan/Israel, the "Promised Land".
sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 13, 2012 - 5:45am

I don't need a book to tell me when it is alright to kill. I have something far more valuable than all of the books in the world, common sense. 
hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Mar 13, 2012 - 5:40am

 mzpro5 wrote:


Which brings us back to buzz's point. The correct translation of the commandment is "Thou shalt not murder" not "Thou shalt not kill"..

 
The interpretation would not be "Though shalt not take another life"?
mzpro5

mzpro5 Avatar

Location: Budda'spet, Hungry
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 13, 2012 - 5:36am

 hippiechick wrote:

I learned that murder is a legal term, as opposed to kill. You can kill someone, but it may not be murder.

 



Which brings us back to buzz's point.

The correct translation of the commandment is "Thou shalt not murder" not "Thou shalt not kill"..
hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Mar 13, 2012 - 4:53am

 buzz wrote:

kill is an incorrect translation. it is actually murder.

 
I learned that murder is a legal term, as opposed to kill. You can kill someone, but it may not be murder.
Umberdog

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Location: In my body.
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 8:14pm

 buzz wrote:
kill is an incorrect translation. it is actually murder.
 
What's the difference, when killing can be justified through intellectual paradigms? Like religion, for example. All you are doing is trading one word for another... but it's the same thing happening. The euphemism makes it okay.
brandonjosborn

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Location: My Own Skin
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 8:07pm

 buzz wrote:

kill is an incorrect translation. it is actually murder.

 
I didn't go there because I felt it would make a difficult entanglement of semantics difficulter.  In terms of the judaochristianislamic tradition, the difference between kill and murder is that of sanction (either way) by the deity.  IF Moses lied, then that difference is a point of human reason.  IF Moses didn't lie, and he believed he was divinely instructed, then my prior argument of vagary and ambiguity still holds as lack of evidence for an omni-inspired revelation.
buzz

buzz Avatar

Location: up the boohai


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 8:01pm

 brandonjosborn wrote:

Coming up with ideas to help people be happy; by committing certain acts toward one another which are supportive, and omitting other acts which are destructive is what civilization is about.  The difference between ethics and morality is that ethics are reasonable considerations of what those various acts should be, while morality is an imposed set of behaviors not derived through reason but, by a claim of divine revelation.

Whether or not Moses lied about his experience (if he even existed), it would behoove us to ask as many questions about those 10 commandments as we could think of "What does 'kill' mean, and when is it acceptable?", because, there's been a LOT of killing done in the name of that god - and he never stepped in to stop any of it - so, does that imply that god approved of the inquisition and the crusades and the Croat's murder of dozens of thousands of moslem men and the rape of 20,000 moslem women?  Or, does it mean that particular god can or cares to do nothing about those sorts of violations?  Or, does it mean that, whatever the case (god or no), we are responsible to think our way through whatever seems to be a good list of ideas for preserving life and advancing civilization - because it benefits everyone to do so?

The fact that these commands were ambiguous and (claimed to be) selectively issued to a very small group of people, who went on to wreak absolute havoc in their region - such havoc that, even today, the bloodshed continues, ("By their fruits ye shall know them"), seems to me evidence for great doubt that those commandments were handed down from an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and / or omnibenevolent being.

 
kill is an incorrect translation. it is actually murder.
brandonjosborn

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Location: My Own Skin
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:51pm

 kurtster wrote:


So what if Moses lied when he came down from the mountain top and actually came up with the 10 Commandments all by himself and there really is/was no "god" ?  Would that make them any less worthy or less valid ?

 
Coming up with ideas to help people be happy; by committing certain acts toward one another which are supportive, and omitting other acts which are destructive is what civilization is about.  The difference between ethics and morality is that ethics are reasonable considerations of what those various acts should be, while morality is an imposed set of behaviors not derived through reason but, by a claim of divine revelation.

Whether or not Moses lied about his experience (if he even existed), it would behoove us to ask as many questions about those 10 commandments as we could think of "What does 'kill' mean, and when is it acceptable?", because, there's been a LOT of killing done in the name of that god - and he never stepped in to stop any of it - so, does that imply that god approved of the inquisition and the crusades and the Croat's murder of dozens of thousands of moslem men and the rape of 20,000 moslem women?  Or, does it mean that particular god can or cares to do nothing about those sorts of violations?  Or, does it mean that, whatever the case (god or no), we are responsible to think our way through whatever seems to be a good list of ideas for preserving life and advancing civilization - because it benefits everyone to do so?

The fact that these commands were ambiguous and (claimed to be) selectively issued to a very small group of people, who went on to wreak absolute havoc in their region - such havoc that, even today, the bloodshed continues, ("By their fruits ye shall know them"), seems to me evidence for great doubt that those commandments were handed down from an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and / or omnibenevolent being.
Umberdog

Umberdog Avatar

Location: In my body.
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:53am

 kurtster wrote:
Only if you consider chocalate to be a religious experience.

... and there are many who do  ...
  
I love chocolate... but not that deeply. No... it was deeper than even chocolate, in a chocolatey high kind of way.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:48am

 Umberdog wrote:
Wow... that got deep.

 

Only if you consider chocalate to be a religious experience.

... and there are many who do  ...


Umberdog

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Location: In my body.
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:44am

Wow... that got deep.
oldviolin

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Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:43am

 buzz wrote:

sometimes i just lick their creamy centers

 
is that an istic thing?
buzz

buzz Avatar

Location: up the boohai


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:40am

 oldviolin wrote:

I know right? Eating your words is so...well...embarrassing...

 
sometimes i just lick their creamy centers
oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:37am

 buzz wrote:

i'd rather have chocolate flow from the fountain

 
I know right? Eating your words is so...well...embarrassing...
oldviolin

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Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:36am

 MsJudi wrote:

About 10 seconds before inventions were invented. Wink

 
I thought you were going to say about 10 seconds after time was invented...{#Cool}
buzz

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Location: up the boohai


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:34am

 oldviolin wrote:

probably when words flow from fountains

 
i'd rather have chocolate flow from the fountain
mzpro5

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Location: Budda'spet, Hungry
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:31am


oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:30am

 buzz wrote:

when will it be perfected?

 
probably when words flow from fountains
oldviolin

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Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 12, 2012 - 7:29am

 Proclivities wrote:

No way to know for sure, but it was probably at night.

 
ah, an intuit in the crowd...
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