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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » WikiLeaks Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 54, 55, 56
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beamends

beamends Avatar



Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 10:20am

 musik_knut wrote:
Many speak of seeing dark secrets come to light. But how many will be talking if innocent lives are lost as a result? It's always fun until someone loses an eye...

 
but how many lives have already been lost due to the skulduggery and resulting cock-ups? How many will be saved now people, ordinary folk (none of this is news to governments), have a much better idea of where they stand and who their friends are? The 'it'll put people in danger' is just a smokescreen to hide embarrassment, not only of having true intentions exposed, but how dumb some of the assessments are - Angela Merkel being described, in a derogatory tone,  as 'unimaginative' completely misses the point that in troubled times that's exactly what the Germans want (and it has served them well over the years). Prince Andrew being 'rude'? Tough, don't listen into other people's conversations if you don't want to find out what people really think.

It would be great if Wikileaks revealed the other side of the coin too, mind. I suspect that Mrs. Clinton would have plenty to complain about then {#Wink}
peter_james_bond

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Location: West Of The Burg
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 10:03am

From The Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/29/the-revolution-will-be-digitised?intcmp=239

WikiLeaks: the revolution has begun – and it will be digitised

The web is changing the way in which people relate to power, and politics will have no choice but to adapt too

Diplomacy has always involved dinners with ruling elites, backroom deals and clandestine meetings. Now, in the digital age, the reports of all those parties and patrician chats can be collected in one enormous database. And once collected in digital form, it becomes very easy for them to be shared.

Indeed, that is why the Siprnet database – from which these US embassy cables are drawn – was created in the first place. The 9/11 commission had made the remarkable discovery that it wasn't sharing information that had put the nation's security at risk; it was not sharing information that was the problem. The lack of co-operation between government agencies, and the hoarding of information by bureaucrats, led to numerous "lost opportunities" to stop the 9/11 attacks. As a result, the commission ordered a restructuring of government and intelligence services to better mimic the web itself. Collaboration and information-sharing was the new ethos. But while millions of government officials and contractors had access to Siprnet, the public did not.

But data has a habit of spreading. It slips past military security and it can also leak from WikiLeaks, which is how I came to obtain the data. It even slipped past the embargoes of the Guardian and other media organisations involved in this story when a rogue copy of Der Spiegel accidentally went on sale in Basle, Switzerland, on Sunday. Someone bought it, realised what they had, and began scanning the pages, translating them from German to English and posting updates on Twitter. It would seem digital data respects no authority, be it the Pentagon, WikiLeaks or a newspaper editor.

Individually, we have all already experienced the massive changes resulting from digitisation. Events or information that we once considered ephemeral and private are now aggregated, permanent, public. If these cables seem large, think about the 500 million users of Facebook or the millions of records kept by Google. Governments hold our personal data in huge databases. It used to cost money to disclose and distribute information. In the digital age it costs money not to.

But when data breaches happen to the public, politicians don't care much. Our privacy is expendable. It is no surprise that the reaction to these leaks is different. What has changed the dynamic of power in a revolutionary way isn't just the scale of the databases being kept, but that individuals can upload a copy and present it to the world. In paper form, these cables amount to some 13,969 pages, which would stack about 25m high – not something that one could have easily slipped past security in the paper age.

To some this marks a crisis, to others an opportunity. Technology is breaking down traditional social barriers of status, class, power, wealth and geography – replacing them with an ethos of collaboration and transparency.

The former US ambassador to Russia James Collins told CNN the disclosure of the cables, "will impede doing things in a normal, civilised way". Too often what is normal and civilised in diplomacy means turning a blind eye to large-scale social injustices, corruption and abuse of power. Having read through several hundred cables, much of the "harm" is embarrassment and the highlighting of inconvenient truths. For the sake of a military base in a country, our leaders accept a brutal dictator who oppresses his population. This may be convenient in the short term for politicians, but the long-term consequences for the world's citizens can be catastrophic.

Leaks are not the problem; they are the symptom. They reveal a disconnect between what people want and need to know and what they actually do know. The greater the secrecy, the more likely a leak. The way to move beyond leaks is to ensure a robust regime for the public to access important information.

Thanks to the internet, we have come to expect a greater level of knowledge and participation in most areas of our lives. Politics, however, has remained resolutely unreconstructed. Politicians, see themselves as parents to a public they view as children – a public that cannot be trusted with the truth, nor with the real power that knowledge brings.

Much of the outrage about WikiLeaks is not over the content of the leaks but from the audacity of breaching previously inviable strongholds of authority. In the past, we deferred to authority and if an official told us something would damage national security we took that as true. Now the raw data behind these claims is increasingly getting into the public domain. What we have seen from disclosures like MPs' expenses or revelations about the complicity of government in torture is that when politicians speak of a threat to "national security", often what they mean is that the security of their own position is threatened.

We are at a pivotal moment where the visionaries at the vanguard of a global digital age are clashing with those who are desperate to control what we know. WikiLeaks is the guerrilla front in a global movement for greater transparency and participation. There are projects like Ushahidi that use social networking to create maps where locals can report incidents of violence that challenge the official version of events. There are activists seeking to free official data so that citizens can see, for example, government spending in detail.

Ironically, the US state department has been one of the biggest cheerleaders for technical innovation as a means of bringing democracy to places like Iran and China. President Obama has urged repressive regimes to stop censoring the internet, yet a bill before Congress would allow the attorney general to create a blacklist of websites. Is robust democracy only good when it's not at home?

It used to be that a leader controlled citizens by controlling information. Now it's harder than ever for the powerful to control what people read, see and hear. Technology gives people the ability to band together and challenge authority. The powerful have long spied on citizens (surveillance) as a means of control, now citizens are turning their collected eyes back upon the powerful (sousveillance).

This is a revolution, and all revolutions create fear and uncertainty. Will we move to a New Information Enlightenment or will the backlash from those who seek to maintain control no matter the cost lead us to a new totalitarianism? What happens in the next five years will define the future of democracy for the next century, so it would be well if our leaders responded to the current challenge with an eye on the future.


musik_knut

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Location: Third Stone From The Sun
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 9:54am

Many speak of seeing dark secrets come to light. But how many will be talking if innocent lives are lost as a result? It's always fun until someone loses an eye...
HazzeSwede

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Location: Hammerdal
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 8:45am

 Beaker wrote:

fvck Assange.  I'll bet Putin gets to him first.  Wikileaks needs to be blown off the Innerweb.
 
The servers are 5 clicks from my place,just saying ! {#Whistle}
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 8:21am

 Beaker wrote:

A message needs to be sent.  And the way to do that is take out Assange and his followers by any means necessary.  If the current US administration is too chickenshit to do that, then I'm sure there's plenty of others who have little concern about removing Assange and his enterprise from among the living.
 

wow.  just wow.
Mugro

Mugro Avatar

Location: 1,000 shades of green (Ireland)


Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 8:17am

 Beaker wrote:



Though some heads need to roll too —- allowing that kind of unrestricted access to a relatively low level civilian means there's more to be fixed than one detail.  Of course the apparent fact that this tool smuggled it all out over 8 months on a CDRW also gives an IT security guy quite a bit of pause.

A message needs to be sent.  And the way to do that is take out Assange and his followers by any means necessary.  If the current US administration is too chickenshit to do that, then I'm sure there's plenty of others who have little concern about removing Assange and his enterprise from among the living.
 
There will be a LOT of changes. There have been some already. You can be sure that there will be increased security involved in cable traffic and less sharing of information between State and DoD. These leaks were sourced in the Department of Defense, not State. Until now, there had been sharing of information between State and Defense — the "One Team" approach. Now, not so much. 
Mugro

Mugro Avatar

Location: 1,000 shades of green (Ireland)


Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 8:15am

 rosedraws wrote:

cable dump?

and, I assume you mean the ramifications will be negative? 
 

Some ramifications positive (like perhaps finally the fall of the N. Korean regime now that the world knows that China no longer supports them), and some negative (Diplomacy is better than war, if no one can trust diplomacy, there will be more war). 
rosedraws

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Location: close to the edge
Gender: Female


Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 8:04am

 Mugro wrote:
The Wikileaks cable dump will have a game-changing, long term impact on not only U.S. Foreign Policy but that of every country's. There will be ramifications from this act that will be far reaching, many of which are impossible to predict today. 

 
 
cable dump?

and, I assume you mean the ramifications will be negative? 
Mugro

Mugro Avatar

Location: 1,000 shades of green (Ireland)


Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 7:59am

The Wikileaks cable dump will have a game-changing, long term impact on not only U.S. Foreign Policy but that of every country's. There will be ramifications from this act that will be far reaching, many of which are impossible to predict today. 

 
peter_james_bond

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Location: West Of The Burg
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 6:18am

WikiLeaks is doing us all a favor. Secrecy is a cancer; governments must be held accountable for their actions, but if the public is kept in the dark by those very same governments then democracy suffers. We, the tax payers, pay for these government clowns, we deserve to know what they are up to. Does what they say in public match what they say in private? Governments talk about transparency but it seems to be all talk and no action.

I'm not as articulate as I'd like to be. Bill Moyers, on the other hand has a wonderful way with words. Here is a speech he gave concerning government secrecy. IN THE KINGDOM OF THE HALF-BLIND


HazzeSwede

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Location: Hammerdal
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 6:10am

 beamends wrote:
I don't think anyone is really surprised, such is the US's reputation around the world. Still, Hillary Clinton jumping up and down like a spoilt brat who's had her ball taken away is fun.

 
{#Yes}  {#Lol}...here,we are mostly concerned about future"diplomatic talks" as in, will there be such a thing and who to trust, if anyone.

beamends

beamends Avatar



Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 5:58am

I don't think anyone is really surprised, such is the US's reputation around the world. Still, Hillary Clinton jumping up and down like a spoilt brat who's had her ball taken away is fun.
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2010 - 5:12am

Any thoughts on exposing our government's dirty secrets?

Julian Assange Says Document Dump Targets 'Lying, Corrupt and Murderous Leadership'

The chief Wikileaker who the U.S. promised today to
prosecute said his Internet site was just beginning to
unload its diplomatic secrets and said the documents
will skewer "lying, corrupt and murderous leadership
from Bahrain to Brazil."

Julian Assange, the Australian who heads the secret-
sharing Web site, told ABC News today he believes his
safety and freedom are in danger. He responded to
questions by email from a clandestine hideout.

He was undaunted by vows from the U.S. and
Australia to prosecute him and said the forthcoming
diplomatic cables are aimed at "lying, corrupt and
murderous leadership from Bahrain to Brazil."

"We're only one thousandth of the way in and look at
what has so far being revealed. There will be many
more," he wrote defiantly.

Assange also dismissed a warning today by Secretary
of State HillaryClinton who said the dump of secret
documents "puts peoples lives in danger," particularly
those sources who provided the U.S. with information
about abuses in foreign countries.

"U.S. officials have for 50 years trotted out this line
when they are afraid the public is going to see how
they really behave," Assange said in his email. "The
facts are that we wrote to the State Department asking
for a list of any specific concerns that might have.
They refused to assist, and said they demanded
everything, including those documents that revealed
abuses, be destroyed."


read on, see link above






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