Steely_D wrote:
Yeah, I'm waffling on this one. But I really don't want Jim Jordan as speaker. I don't see how there will be enough moderate republicans (if there are any left) willing to support a democratic candidate. 

And as far as Nader goes, you really need rank-choice voting

 kurtster wrote:


And thus continues your streak of being painfully disingenuous. Here, watch this:

Oops, I made a mistake. Not 'sorry if you were offended', or 'that's not what I meant'. I made a mistake. It happens. I'm over it now, hope you can manage.



Also, the underlying points of it's not the Democrats problem to solve, and there are many reasonable solutions available, are clear (to anyone not wanting to argue minutia and waste time), and they still stand.

 islander wrote: 
This is about the House of Representatives, not the Senate.

I guess that they quit teaching Civics in your high school by the time you went through.

 haresfur wrote:

Reminds me of how folks told Nader that he was responsible for Gore losing, and he said that the fault really lies with those who voted for Bush, doesn’t it? We could say “hey you Dems should’ve voted for him” but remember that McCarthy brought up impeachment against Biden for no good reason, amongst all the other lousy things he’s responsible for. He doesn’t deserve his position and there are a lot of folks who didn’t/don’t want him there.

Now, the proper game plan is to split the GOP votes for Speaker, and have a unified Dem candidate, and have them take advantage of the GOP chaos.

 steeler wrote:
Certainly not at all to cast aspersions on you or the professor, but I'm not sure if we're looking at this the same way. It doesn't take a professor to know that our "democracy" has been boring a hole in this direction for a pretty long time. We now have a diseased divisiveness rooted, cultivated, and spreading like the red weed in War of the Worlds. It can be overcome, but not without a true calling in the hearts of every man woman and child. The golden rule still applies, though the twisted interpretations of it seem to be in control of the umbrella or veil of negativity and fear. Everyone wants a narrative to follow so mass communication provides one. Outside of ideological viewpoints and in some cases, axes to grind, it may be best to apply that heart thing with courage and the determination to not have personal awareness and operative measures be a product of frowning sticks and stones in the guise of indisputable information proliferated as fact or professional opinion, and fitted for public consumption through target audiences and both definitive and broader culture. Thinking for oneself becomes predicated on material elements rather than demonstrative positive evolution. This is man. This is the world of men. Specifically, this is us as citizens of the United States of America. What an ironic name for our country at this point in it's evolution of the great experiment.

The bible states in Proverbs 16: 18-20 "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud." We seem to be driven to rightness in the name of justice, power for the sake of controlling authority.
The fact is, referring to my initial pose, that we have been feeding the same monster that consumes us for a long time, and now we have the undisciplined technology and determination to see it through. It is a reckoning, purely and simply. The noise is coming through in waves. Lips are moving but no one hears what they're saying...
I encourage everyone to approach the coming days, weeks, and months with authenticity in thoughts, attitude and preoccupation. Sure. This is all my opinion. That's my point. Ride the wave. Catch the wind. Whatever.  It's change, and it's here. Do well to do well. God will be with us, whether we want it or not.

/sermon on rye or express gobbledygook.

”If you want to know what it looks like when democracy is in trouble, this is what it looks like,” said Daniel Ziblatt, professor of government at Harvard University. “It should set off alarm bells that something is not right.”

 islander wrote:

Really, though, I wonder what the process is. If Steny Hoyer ran, he might peel off 10 GOP votes. 

 islander wrote:
Our next speaker will prove once and for all...government doesn't work!  (posted by DJT himself).

Matt Gaetz is fundraising by proving that nothing in DC works.

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

Cruel Country.

Edit:  And true. There are a lot of solutions to the problem. But they need to originate from those in control of the situation. If your goal is to govern it should be obvious. If your goal is to prove that governance doesn't work, what is your incentive to show that it can?

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I hear Liz Cheney has some free time.

 islander wrote:

NB: the Speaker doesn't have to be from the majority party. Doesn't even have to be a member of Congress. I say nominate Jeff Tweedy.

 miamizsun wrote:

Easier to work with him?  He broke many promises / commitments he had made to Democrats already, why would they trust him more going forward?  Also, let's check the list:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/07/us/elections/electoral-college-biden-objectors.html , yep he's there. He voted to overturn an election. He has no place running a government he doesn't respect.  Honestly, it's about time the Democrats don't step in and save the Republicans from their own mess because 'it's the right thing'... They voted for Jeffries, why isn't the conversation about why zero Republican senators didn't break ranks and vote for the adult on the ballot. I think there are 10 or so Republican senators who are in districts that voted for Biden, who are they representing?

 miamizsun wrote:
Not with Scalese and Jordan as the current nominees.

More and more you hear that McCarthy was managing meeting to meeting...making promise after promise that he wouldn't (and couldn't) keep.  He came to "power" that way, and juggled as long as possible.

So now you have a Republican party that may never agree on someone, and anyone who might consider the job as more than a pulpit wouldn't really want to do so given the rules package approved for this congress.  This could be ugly.

What's interesting... is the thought that maybe the Dems can negotiate with enough of the "Biden district" Republicans to pick the next speaker.  As we inch closer to next year, these folks are already starting to raise money and organize for 2024.  Many of them (there are I believe 18 of them... elected R in 2022 in a district Biden won in 2020) are at risk given the dysfunction of the party, and might consider working with the Dems to seat someone and move on.  They would become the "power" on the Republican side, and make Gaetz and the MAGA wing pointless.    Major long shot, but something's gonna have to give.

 haresfur wrote:
i can agree with this
of course if we sat down over a couple of beers we could come up with a list of reasons of why he had it coming
because ___________
but at the end of the day it would probably be easier to work with him 
is the gop is going through a bit of an exorcism?
what does your magic 8 ball say?

I believe McCarthy has said he will not run again. 

Perhaps Matt Gaetz wants the Speakership. It doesn't really matter because things are going to slide into full-blown farce now. 

 haresfur wrote:
It's a vote.  The Republicans have more of them by a small majority (a handful.. +/- a few). 

It's possible that the Dems could cut a deal and grab enough votes to win...but it's very unlikely.  

 rgio wrote:

Fair enough. Make it clear that the support is contingent on Ukraine funding and funding the government through the rest of the year.

Btw, can the democrats put in a motion to oust the speaker or does it have to be a republican?

 rgio wrote: 
Or we could talk about how pulling that fire alarm was a real act of insurrection.

 haresfur wrote:
Or you wait for him to be nominated again...and cut a deal when he's humiliated and weaker (if that's actually possible).

I think that the Democrats should have voted for McCarthy as speaker. First, if the idea is that the government should first and foremost govern, then that is the best path forward. The upheaval and delays play into the hands of the right-wing. Second, it is the only chance of getting Ukraine aid passed and McCarthy would owe them one. Third, Gaetz would have bust an artery.