[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

One small 'beef' i have with RP - huck1 - Jan 27, 2022 - 3:50am
 
Guns - westslope - Jan 26, 2022 - 10:58pm
 
COVID-19 - westslope - Jan 26, 2022 - 10:40pm
 
Wordle - daily game - Steely_D - Jan 26, 2022 - 10:06pm
 
In My Room - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jan 26, 2022 - 8:48pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jan 26, 2022 - 7:47pm
 
music that makes you dance with big wavy gestures - R_P - Jan 26, 2022 - 7:00pm
 
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests - Red_Dragon - Jan 26, 2022 - 6:38pm
 
Supreme Court: Who's Next? - Red_Dragon - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:31pm
 
King Crimson - miamizsun - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:24pm
 
Neil Young - R_P - Jan 26, 2022 - 12:34pm
 
Submissions is broken - rgio - Jan 26, 2022 - 12:08pm
 
Lyrics that are stuck in your head today... - black321 - Jan 26, 2022 - 11:17am
 
Name My Band - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 10:55am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - black321 - Jan 26, 2022 - 10:38am
 
Audio Processing - Azimuth48 - Jan 26, 2022 - 9:55am
 
Photos you haven't taken of other people... - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 8:39am
 
RP and Life - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 8:28am
 
Movie Quote - Steely_D - Jan 26, 2022 - 8:25am
 
Get the Quote - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 8:19am
 
What are you listening to now? - oldviolin - Jan 26, 2022 - 7:35am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 7:22am
 
Today in History - Bill_J - Jan 26, 2022 - 6:41am
 
Best movies ever? - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:53am
 
Old Time and Folk - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:25am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - sunybuny - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:16am
 
Won’t support you until - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:06am
 
Live Concert Streams - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 4:44am
 
Best Funk ? - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 4:30am
 
Jazz - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 4:06am
 
What Did You Do Today? - Steely_D - Jan 25, 2022 - 9:44pm
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - fractalv - Jan 25, 2022 - 8:17pm
 
Tax the Rich! - ScottFromWyoming - Jan 25, 2022 - 3:51pm
 
What is the meaning of this? - oldviolin - Jan 25, 2022 - 2:01pm
 
Russia - R_P - Jan 25, 2022 - 1:28pm
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - VV - Jan 25, 2022 - 1:15pm
 
New Music - R_P - Jan 25, 2022 - 1:04pm
 
Headphones for the hard of hearing? - westslope - Jan 25, 2022 - 12:27pm
 
Got a good recipe you care to share ??? - ScottFromWyoming - Jan 25, 2022 - 11:43am
 
Bitcoin - rgio - Jan 25, 2022 - 5:48am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - miamizsun - Jan 25, 2022 - 4:50am
 
Europe - Ohmsen - Jan 25, 2022 - 2:16am
 
Things You Thought Today - haresfur - Jan 24, 2022 - 11:14pm
 
Trump - westslope - Jan 24, 2022 - 4:59pm
 
Weather Out Your Window - Manbird - Jan 24, 2022 - 2:34pm
 
Evolution! - R_P - Jan 24, 2022 - 2:11pm
 
Happy Birthday! - Manbird - Jan 24, 2022 - 2:07pm
 
France - Ohmsen - Jan 24, 2022 - 11:07am
 
Joe Biden - Steely_D - Jan 24, 2022 - 9:59am
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - islander - Jan 24, 2022 - 6:53am
 
Germany - westslope - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:24pm
 
Republican Party - Steely_D - Jan 23, 2022 - 7:54pm
 
The Obituary Page - Bill_J - Jan 23, 2022 - 6:20pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - triskele - Jan 23, 2022 - 2:40pm
 
Jimi Hendrix Memorial - Ohmsen - Jan 23, 2022 - 1:52pm
 
Pictures I've taken and like. No promises! - oldviolin - Jan 23, 2022 - 12:34pm
 
Australia and New Zealand Music - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:45am
 
Counting with Pictures - Proclivities - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:37am
 
Play the Blues - Ohmsen - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:35am
 
The war on funk is over! - Ohmsen - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:22am
 
Classical? - oldviolin - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:16am
 
I play the drums... - Ohmsen - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:01am
 
Jam! (why should a song stop) - Ohmsen - Jan 23, 2022 - 10:12am
 
What Makes You Sad? - geoff_morphini - Jan 23, 2022 - 10:12am
 
The Dragon's Roots - triskele - Jan 22, 2022 - 3:30pm
 
A motivational quote - GeneP59 - Jan 22, 2022 - 11:40am
 
What are you doing RIGHT NOW? - GeneP59 - Jan 22, 2022 - 11:15am
 
Make Scott laugh - Manbird - Jan 22, 2022 - 10:07am
 
ptooey Must Go! - islander - Jan 22, 2022 - 7:59am
 
• • • What Makes You Happy? • • •  - oldviolin - Jan 21, 2022 - 10:42pm
 
Kids say the funniest things - oldviolin - Jan 21, 2022 - 9:42pm
 
Star Trek - Manbird - Jan 21, 2022 - 8:46pm
 
Thank You Radio Paradise. - Manbird - Jan 21, 2022 - 6:14pm
 
DQ (as in 'Daily Quote') - Manbird - Jan 21, 2022 - 4:21pm
 
RightWingNutZ - westslope - Jan 21, 2022 - 4:21pm
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » RightWingNutZ Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 127, 128, 129  Next
Post to this Topic
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 5, 2022 - 1:32am

 Steely_D wrote:
 Lazy8 wrote:

Aye, there's the rub: the tone that makes the news. That is, the tone (not even the substance, but the tone) that's fashionable within your bubble. That, dear reader, is on you. You don't have to stay in a bubble. When someone tells you what someone else thinks and what you should think about that and them you could actually go and check. Listen to/read that person's own words, in context, and decide for yourself: is that what they really think, and what do I think about that myself? It has never, in the entire history of mankind, been easier to do this. You also seem unable to discern that there are libertarians who aren't in the GOP. No, really! There are people who aren't in your tribe who aren't in The Enemy Tribe. And that it's possible to not belong to a tribe at all. That it's possible to define your politics on their own terms, from principles, rather than as a reaction to (what you perceive of) someone else's politics. We aren't particularly welcome in the GOP either, btw—but that's a story for another day. As for factions within libertarianism...libertarianism has vastly more factions than you can probably comprehend. It's hard to even say which of them is the more radical, when there isn't a central orthodoxy but a set of central principles. This has not, apparently, penetrated your bubble. All of this assumes that you actually care that your view of the world is accurate and that the walls of your bubble aren't mirrored. If not...rock on. You absolutely won't see us coming.

Sorry, but all I heard there was a patronizing, and somewhat insulting, tone. Not my cup of tea, thanks. I can understand why you’re not welcome.
 
{#Neutral} well, I hope he was talking to the general you and not you specifically. 

The biggest danger we are facing at the moment is not the left/right divide, but on how we conduct politics. IMO this is the most fundamental challenge to face. We have all grown up in stable states where it is easy to take civil discourse for granted and assume our political structures are anchored in a solid bedrock of custom and legal constitutions. They are not.

My problem with the libertarian side of things in general is that the philosophy in its wider sense is predicated on a stable society where we all go about respecting each other rights and we find civil ways of resolving conflicts but I see no reason in either history or human nature as to why that state of affairs would automatically come into being under a libertarian regime. I get the distinct impression that libertarians expect humans to suddenly develop some kind of class consciousness by which we can all agree on rights and duties and live in peace and harmony (and yes, the reference to Marx was deliberate), despite obvious disparities in wealth, culture and values. 

On the other hand, this is not a criticism unique to libertarianism alone, as all political movements are necessarily predicated on some kind of political consensus, bar the outright authoritarian regimes that rule entirely by force and coercion. I'm kind of hoping we all want to avoid the latter but lately I've not been so sure.
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Jan 4, 2022 - 10:15pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

.....

We aren't particularly welcome in the GOP either, btw—but that's a story for another day.

......

I was going to say.

Young Socialists (Trots) were not particularly welcome in the left-leaning NDP in Canada.



Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 4, 2022 - 9:51pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

Aye, there's the rub: the tone that makes the news. That is, the tone (not even the substance, but the tone) that's fashionable within your bubble. That, dear reader, is on you.

You don't have to stay in a bubble. When someone tells you what someone else thinks and what you should think about that and them you could actually go and check. Listen to/read that person's own words, in context, and decide for yourself: is that what they really think, and what do I think about that myself? It has never, in the entire history of mankind, been easier to do this.

You also seem unable to discern that there are libertarians who aren't in the GOP. No, really! There are people who aren't in your tribe who aren't in The Enemy Tribe. And that it's possible to not belong to a tribe at all. That it's possible to define your politics on their own terms, from principles, rather than as a reaction to (what you perceive of) someone else's politics.

We aren't particularly welcome in the GOP either, btw—but that's a story for another day.

As for factions within libertarianism...libertarianism has vastly more factions than you can probably comprehend. It's hard to even say which of them is the more radical, when there isn't a central orthodoxy but a set of central principles. This has not, apparently, penetrated your bubble.

All of this assumes that you actually care that your view of the world is accurate and that the walls of your bubble aren't mirrored. If not...rock on.

You absolutely won't see us coming.

Sorry, but all I heard there was a patronizing, and somewhat insulting, tone. Not my cup of tea, thanks. I can understand why you’re not welcome.


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 4, 2022 - 5:35pm

 Steely_D wrote:
Sorry, but the tone of contemporary libertarianism (this is the tone that makes the news, of course, where it's woven inextricably into the GOP - like socialism is woven into the Democratic perspective) is that self-reliance is indeed a tribal blood sport - hopefully.

Just like moderate GOP and moderate Dems wish they could tease themselves out from the extremists in their parties, I'm betting that there's a faction of moderate Libertarians who would prefer that they were the guiding force. (Same true for Greens, who have their share of media-drawing nut jobs.)

Aye, there's the rub: the tone that makes the news. That is, the tone (not even the substance, but the tone) that's fashionable within your bubble. That, dear reader, is on you.

You don't have to stay in a bubble. When someone tells you what someone else thinks and what you should think about that and them you could actually go and check. Listen to/read that person's own words, in context, and decide for yourself: is that what they really think, and what do I think about that myself? It has never, in the entire history of mankind, been easier to do this.

You also seem unable to discern that there are libertarians who aren't in the GOP. No, really! There are people who aren't in your tribe who aren't in The Enemy Tribe. And that it's possible to not belong to a tribe at all. That it's possible to define your politics on their own terms, from principles, rather than as a reaction to (what you perceive of) someone else's politics.

We aren't particularly welcome in the GOP either, btw—but that's a story for another day.

As for factions within libertarianism...libertarianism has vastly more factions than you can probably comprehend. It's hard to even say which of them is the more radical, when there isn't a central orthodoxy but a set of central principles. This has not, apparently, penetrated your bubble.

All of this assumes that you actually care that your view of the world is accurate and that the walls of your bubble aren't mirrored. If not...rock on.

You absolutely won't see us coming.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jan 4, 2022 - 2:38pm


Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 4, 2022 - 1:53pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

Populism is the only flavor of politics in fashion, with which bogeyman to blame for all our problems being the only difference.

The job of libertarians in this mess is to get people to think about politics in more than one dimension, to make it less of a tribal blood sport and more about the kind of future we want. 

Sorry, but the tone of contemporary libertarianism (this is the tone that makes the news, of course, where it's woven inextricably into the GOP - like socialism is woven into the Democratic perspective) is that self-reliance is indeed a tribal blood sport - hopefully.

Just like moderate GOP and moderate Dems wish they could tease themselves out from the extremists in their parties, I'm betting that there's a faction of moderate Libertarians who would prefer that they were the guiding force. (Same true for Greens, who have their share of media-drawing nut jobs.)

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2022 - 11:16pm

 Steely_D wrote:
I’m thinking that the “Left” (which is, really, anything not “Right”) is really more of a vehicle for two things: 1) properly, the idea that the government should be helping those who need it with services to keep someone afloat when life screws them over, or rules to keep big businesses from taking advantage of the little guy; and, 2) improperly, some version of entitlement wherein folks “get what they deserve” because they think they’ve been already screwed over, and this includes income without effort.

None of that is a religion, but helping one another is central to most religions - and antithetical to capitalism, the spinal column of the “Right.”

If all there is—as you insist—is left and right then we are doomed to lurch from ditch to ditch, the excesses of each feeding the other. The ditches grow deeper and the damage gets worse with each crash, but we get no farther down the road.

There is no capitalist faction left between the two incumbent parties. Their policies on trade, for instance, have become indistinguishable. They both presume to know better than buyers and sellers about what should be bought and sold, and to and from whom, and for how much. Populism is the only flavor of politics in fashion, with which bogeyman to blame for all our problems being the only difference.

The job of libertarians in this mess is to get people to think about politics in more than one dimension, to make it less of a tribal blood sport and more about the kind of future we want. 
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Jan 3, 2022 - 3:35pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

Some of that happened in 2016, when some Trump supporters painted him as a closeted libertarian, but the way he governed disabused anyone paying attention of that notion.

Since then the LP has grown by leaps and bounds, at least at the state and local level. Long time libertarian priorities are going mainstream. My state party has grown by roughly 30% per election, and we're on track to stand up 5 new county affiliates this year. January 6th gave us a bit more momentum; my local affiliate now includes the state GOP's former lawyer.
......

Glad to read that.  Libertarians are more likely than other political actors to raise issues regarding incentives, disincentives, unanticipated consequences and blow back from policy decisions.    The modern welfare state is here to stay but is really due for a serious overhaul and I do not see that initiative coming from traditional left-wing, leftist or liberal quarters.

Part of the 'perception issue' is that libertarians come in all shapes, sizes and flavours.     Educated, not so educated, well-read, not so well-read, dogmatic versus pragmatic.

Looks like the Canadian federal state is about to throw a tonne of money at survivors of First Nation residential schools.   I strongly believe that is a terrible idea and expect much of those funds to go straight to expensive, destructive self-medication.  Canada is currently funneling lots of resources into FN communities and that should continue and perhaps even increase.  The delivery mechanism is key.  

Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2022 - 8:47am

 Lazy8 wrote:

On the left the politics is the religion.


I’m thinking that the “Left” (which is, really, anything not “Right”) is really more of a vehicle for two things: 1) properly, the idea that the government should be helping those who need it with services to keep someone afloat when life screws them over, or rules to keep big businesses from taking advantage of the little guy; and, 2) improperly, some version of entitlement wherein folks “get what they deserve” because they think they’ve been already screwed over, and this includes income without effort.

None of that is a religion, but helping one another is central to most religions - and antithetical to capitalism, the spinal column of the “Right.”



oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2022 - 8:10am

 Manbird wrote:
 Red_Dragon wrote:


So long, asshole.


rude truth tooth
 
nail
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2022 - 8:04am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I suspect that globally, this article might find sympathetic readers, but around here it will just cause heads to buzz and be dismissed as quickly as possible. That is, to me it seems like the majority of the 2010s' self-described libertarians are in fact now folded back into the GOP and have Fuck Joe Biden flags in the Trump style fluttering behind their pickup trucks.

Some of that happened in 2016, when some Trump supporters painted him as a closeted libertarian, but the way he governed disabused anyone paying attention of that notion.

Since then the LP has grown by leaps and bounds, at least at the state and local level. Long time libertarian priorities are going mainstream. My state party has grown by roughly 30% per election, and we're on track to stand up 5 new county affiliates this year. January 6th gave us a bit more momentum; my local affiliate now includes the state GOP's former lawyer.

You're right that this particular echo chamber will roll its eyes at the posted article. Right-wing authoritarianism is an article of faith on the left: if you're not with us you're Hitler, and the left's authoritarian instincts are as invisible as water is to fish.

This is a long game. If we're going to grow it won't just be by absorbing the unaffiliated, some of that growth will come at the expense of dinosaur parties. As that happens they will bring along some residue of their former view;s, something we will have to work on.

And yes, we're absorbing more Republicans than Democrats at the moment. Religion is rightly viewed as central to the GOP's base, but politics is just the vehicle for the religion. On the left the politics is the religion. Both are capable of stunning feats of reality-denial, but getting a religious person to change his/her politics is easier than getting someone to abandon both at the same time.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2022 - 7:32am

 miamizsun wrote:

AUTHORITARIANISM

In 2022, Pay Attention to Right-Wing Authoritarianism

For decades, libertarians have focused on illiberalism coming from the political left. 

But authoritarianism has taken root among many conservatives across the world.

| 12.30.2021 3:46 PM



I suspect that globally, this article might find sympathetic readers, but around here it will just cause heads to buzz and be dismissed as quickly as possible. That is, to me it seems like the majority of the 2010s' self-described libertarians are in fact now folded back into the GOP and have Fuck Joe Biden flags in the Trump style fluttering behind their pickup trucks.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 3, 2022 - 4:50am

AUTHORITARIANISM

In 2022, Pay Attention to Right-Wing Authoritarianism

For decades, libertarians have focused on illiberalism coming from the political left. 

But authoritarianism has taken root among many conservatives across the world.

| 12.30.2021 3:46 PM

Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Owl Creek Bridge
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 2, 2022 - 3:38pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:


So long, asshole.


rude truth
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jan 2, 2022 - 1:21pm

 Manbird wrote:

Twitter permanently suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene's personal account

"That’s fine, I’ll show America we don’t need them and it’s time to defeat our enemies," she posted to her account on social media platform GETTR.





So long, asshole.
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 2, 2022 - 12:05pm

 Steely_D wrote:


she is in florida?
i didn't see her




"probably photoshopped!" -mb

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jan 2, 2022 - 11:33am

 Manbird wrote:

Twitter permanently suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene's personal account

"That’s fine, I’ll show America we don’t need them and it’s time to defeat our enemies," she posted to her account on social media platform GETTR.




If, in fact, she and others like her do not need Twitter, then, logically, this is not a big deal, much less a call to war.

Lots of enemies of the people these days.


Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Owl Creek Bridge
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 2, 2022 - 10:22am

Twitter permanently suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene's personal account

"That’s fine, I’ll show America we don’t need them and it’s time to defeat our enemies," she posted to her account on social media platform GETTR.



Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Dec 31, 2021 - 4:31pm

 Steely_D wrote:




Well, you have to remember that their mental and emotional development ceased at about 13.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 31, 2021 - 4:27pm


Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 127, 128, 129  Next