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Wordle - daily game - Proclivities - Jan 27, 2022 - 4:23am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - Coaxial - Jan 27, 2022 - 4:18am
 
One small 'beef' i have with RP - huck1 - Jan 27, 2022 - 3:50am
 
Guns - westslope - Jan 26, 2022 - 10:58pm
 
COVID-19 - westslope - Jan 26, 2022 - 10:40pm
 
In My Room - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jan 26, 2022 - 8:48pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jan 26, 2022 - 7:47pm
 
music that makes you dance with big wavy gestures - R_P - Jan 26, 2022 - 7:00pm
 
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests - Red_Dragon - Jan 26, 2022 - 6:38pm
 
Supreme Court: Who's Next? - Red_Dragon - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:31pm
 
King Crimson - miamizsun - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:24pm
 
Neil Young - R_P - Jan 26, 2022 - 12:34pm
 
Submissions is broken - rgio - Jan 26, 2022 - 12:08pm
 
Lyrics that are stuck in your head today... - black321 - Jan 26, 2022 - 11:17am
 
Name My Band - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 10:55am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - black321 - Jan 26, 2022 - 10:38am
 
Audio Processing - Azimuth48 - Jan 26, 2022 - 9:55am
 
Photos you haven't taken of other people... - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 8:39am
 
RP and Life - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 8:28am
 
Movie Quote - Steely_D - Jan 26, 2022 - 8:25am
 
Get the Quote - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 8:19am
 
What are you listening to now? - oldviolin - Jan 26, 2022 - 7:35am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 7:22am
 
Today in History - Bill_J - Jan 26, 2022 - 6:41am
 
Best movies ever? - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:53am
 
Old Time and Folk - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:25am
 
Won’t support you until - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 5:06am
 
Live Concert Streams - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 4:44am
 
Best Funk ? - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 4:30am
 
Jazz - Ohmsen - Jan 26, 2022 - 4:06am
 
What Did You Do Today? - Steely_D - Jan 25, 2022 - 9:44pm
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - fractalv - Jan 25, 2022 - 8:17pm
 
Tax the Rich! - ScottFromWyoming - Jan 25, 2022 - 3:51pm
 
What is the meaning of this? - oldviolin - Jan 25, 2022 - 2:01pm
 
Russia - R_P - Jan 25, 2022 - 1:28pm
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - VV - Jan 25, 2022 - 1:15pm
 
New Music - R_P - Jan 25, 2022 - 1:04pm
 
Headphones for the hard of hearing? - westslope - Jan 25, 2022 - 12:27pm
 
Got a good recipe you care to share ??? - ScottFromWyoming - Jan 25, 2022 - 11:43am
 
Bitcoin - rgio - Jan 25, 2022 - 5:48am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - miamizsun - Jan 25, 2022 - 4:50am
 
Europe - Ohmsen - Jan 25, 2022 - 2:16am
 
Things You Thought Today - haresfur - Jan 24, 2022 - 11:14pm
 
Trump - westslope - Jan 24, 2022 - 4:59pm
 
Weather Out Your Window - Manbird - Jan 24, 2022 - 2:34pm
 
Evolution! - R_P - Jan 24, 2022 - 2:11pm
 
Happy Birthday! - Manbird - Jan 24, 2022 - 2:07pm
 
France - Ohmsen - Jan 24, 2022 - 11:07am
 
Joe Biden - Steely_D - Jan 24, 2022 - 9:59am
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - islander - Jan 24, 2022 - 6:53am
 
Germany - westslope - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:24pm
 
Republican Party - Steely_D - Jan 23, 2022 - 7:54pm
 
The Obituary Page - Bill_J - Jan 23, 2022 - 6:20pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - triskele - Jan 23, 2022 - 2:40pm
 
Jimi Hendrix Memorial - Ohmsen - Jan 23, 2022 - 1:52pm
 
Pictures I've taken and like. No promises! - oldviolin - Jan 23, 2022 - 12:34pm
 
Australia and New Zealand Music - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:45am
 
Counting with Pictures - Proclivities - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:37am
 
Play the Blues - Ohmsen - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:35am
 
The war on funk is over! - Ohmsen - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:22am
 
Classical? - oldviolin - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:16am
 
I play the drums... - Ohmsen - Jan 23, 2022 - 11:01am
 
Jam! (why should a song stop) - Ohmsen - Jan 23, 2022 - 10:12am
 
What Makes You Sad? - geoff_morphini - Jan 23, 2022 - 10:12am
 
The Dragon's Roots - triskele - Jan 22, 2022 - 3:30pm
 
A motivational quote - GeneP59 - Jan 22, 2022 - 11:40am
 
What are you doing RIGHT NOW? - GeneP59 - Jan 22, 2022 - 11:15am
 
Make Scott laugh - Manbird - Jan 22, 2022 - 10:07am
 
ptooey Must Go! - islander - Jan 22, 2022 - 7:59am
 
• • • What Makes You Happy? • • •  - oldviolin - Jan 21, 2022 - 10:42pm
 
Kids say the funniest things - oldviolin - Jan 21, 2022 - 9:42pm
 
Star Trek - Manbird - Jan 21, 2022 - 8:46pm
 
Thank You Radio Paradise. - Manbird - Jan 21, 2022 - 6:14pm
 
DQ (as in 'Daily Quote') - Manbird - Jan 21, 2022 - 4:21pm
 
RightWingNutZ - westslope - Jan 21, 2022 - 4:21pm
 
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R_P

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Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 12:38pm

Barbara F. Walter, a political scientist at the University of California, San Diego, has interviewed many people who’ve lived through civil wars, and she told me they all say they didn’t see it coming. “They’re all surprised,” she said. “Even when, to somebody who studies it, it’s obvious years beforehand.”

Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 12:23pm

 miamizsun wrote:

gerrymandering is a flagrant abuse that needs to stop


So is private money in politics.
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 12:10pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:
 marko86 wrote:


Whole heartedly agree. I believe it was Missouri a referendum passed that passed that mandated independent drawing of the lines that was immediately circumvented by the legislature. Technology is such that that one could lay out some general parameters and have a computer do it. I wonder why that has not been a thing.

Because the parties don't want to give up control.
 
gerrymandering is a flagrant abuse that needs to stop
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 11:44am

 marko86 wrote:


Whole heartedly agree. I believe it was Missouri a referendum passed that passed that mandated independent drawing of the lines that was immediately circumvented by the legislature. Technology is such that that one could lay out some general parameters and have a computer do it. I wonder why that has not been a thing.



Because the parties don't want to give up control.
marko86

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Location: North TX
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 11:30am

 Red_Dragon wrote:


Agreed. The apportionment of voting districts needs to be completely removed from the hands of political parties.



Whole heartedly agree. I believe it was Missouri a referendum passed that passed that mandated independent drawing of the lines that was immediately circumvented by the legislature. Technology is such that that one could lay out some general parameters and have a computer do it. I wonder why that has not been a thing.
westslope

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Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 11:16am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
......  I am not worried about that. I'm worried about legislatures manipulating laws so that "their side" has an advantage. I'm worried about computer-aided gerrymandering (they can draw the lines very precisely now to give themselves permanent advantage). etc

Yeah....  Must admit I am curious as to why gerrymandering seems to be such a big problem in the USA but not in other rich democracies.  Does a British-type parliament and/or proportional voting remove the incentives to gerrymander?  Does the de facto 2-party system encourage gerrymandering?

Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 8:19am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


We need to be mindful of the Trump playbook: accuse others (loudly) of whatever you're currently doing. 

Someone asked me if election integrity was a worry and I said of course. They began talking about fraudulent votes but if polling place across the country or even in 50/50 precincts see an unexplainable uptick in dead people voting, the elections clerks will be on the alert long before Mr. Trump finds out about it. I am not worried about that. I'm worried about legislatures manipulating laws so that "their side" has an advantage. I'm worried about computer-aided gerrymandering (they can draw the lines very precisely now to give themselves permanent advantage). etc


Agreed. The apportionment of voting districts needs to be completely removed from the hands of political parties.

ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 7:39am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:


We need to be mindful of the Trump playbook: accuse others (loudly) of whatever you're currently doing. 

Someone asked me if election integrity was a worry and I said of course. They began talking about fraudulent votes but if polling place across the country or even in 50/50 precincts see an unexplainable uptick in dead people voting, the elections clerks will be on the alert long before Mr. Trump finds out about it. I am not worried about that. I'm worried about legislatures manipulating laws so that "their side" has an advantage. I'm worried about computer-aided gerrymandering (they can draw the lines very precisely now to give themselves permanent advantage). etc
rgio

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Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 7:38am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
The danger as I see it is not the vigorous debate, which is a hallmark of a functioning democracy, but the erosion of faith in the system itself. Leaving aside the issue of whether the system is worthy of our faith in it or not, the pressing question is, what's your alternative?


The real perversion is that the very same people who will hold onto the second amendment as a God-given right, and who profess to be the most patriotic...are the very ones who want their leader(s) to ignore those very same documents and prescribed principals and processes so they can maintain power.  The hypocrisy is mystifying.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 7:29am

 miamizsun wrote:
 
i don't doubt that this is possibly the view from there/here/wherever 
i was going to spend a few minutes addressing what i think is over-blown and/or over-reaction to media portrayal and framing of the incident
we see what editors want us to see and drive ratings
are narratives media crack? wild comparisons to 9/11? the holocaust? building a memorial in remembrance?
at a glance some of the opinion pieces and polling seem to be way out there
however, magically and almost on cue, jacob sullum has spilled on this saving me the time and effort (thanks jake!)
fairly quick read-please have a look and stay safe
regards

Was the Capitol Riot Really the Opening Battle of a Civil War?

There are good reasons to think polls grossly exaggerate the number of Americans who support political violence.


Yes, but there is a difference between complaining the other side won unfairly in a system that is generally fair and complaining that the system itself is fundamentally 
borked. When you throw out the very foundations on which the democratic process is based, what have you got left?

The Trump narrative is to play both sides of this game: 1) the other side won cause they cheated and 2) the system is fucked anyway so we can resort to any means to regain power, without consciously admitting that the two arguments are, at heart, mutually exclusive.

just in case I have to spell this out: the other side wouldn't need to cheat if the system is fucked so they probably didn't cheat, or, alternatively, the system is not fucked, which means they couldn't have cheated.

Basically Trump's argument is the narrative of a sore loser.

The danger as I see it is not the vigorous debate, which is a hallmark of a functioning democracy, but the erosion of faith in the system itself. Leaving aside the issue of whether the system is worthy of our faith in it or not, the pressing question is, what's your alternative?

miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 7, 2022 - 4:28am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
sure, but you trivialise the general trend at your peril. The view from here is that Trump, ironically, is rapidly turning the mighty USA into another failed Latin American state, crippled by infighting and unable to get its shit together.  

i don't doubt that this is possibly the view from there/here/wherever 
i was going to spend a few minutes addressing what i think is over-blown and/or over-reaction to media portrayal and framing of the incident
we see what editors want us to see and drive ratings
are narratives media crack? wild comparisons to 9/11? the holocaust? building a memorial in remembrance?
at a glance some of the opinion pieces and polling seem to be way out there
however, magically and almost on cue, jacob sullum has spilled on this saving me the time and effort (thanks jake!)
fairly quick read-please have a look and stay safe
regards

Was the Capitol Riot Really the Opening Battle of a Civil War?

There are good reasons to think polls grossly exaggerate the number of Americans who support political violence.

NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 6, 2022 - 10:18pm

 miamizsun wrote:

using a search engine i find there are links to every election being stolen or hornswoggled!


sure, but you trivialise the general trend at your peril. The view from here is that Trump, ironically, is rapidly turning the mighty USA into another failed Latin American state, crippled by infighting and unable to get its shit together. 


miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 5, 2022 - 5:23pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:
search engine results never lie!


and they're not even really engines!
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jan 5, 2022 - 5:21pm

 miamizsun wrote:

using a search engine i find there are links to every election being stolen or hornswoggled!



search engine results never lie!
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 5, 2022 - 5:17pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
using a search engine i find there are links to every election being stolen or hornswoggled!

Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jan 5, 2022 - 5:11pm

NASCAR Rejects "Let's Go Brandon" Crypto Sponsorship, Team Pledges To Fight Back
R_P

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Posted: Jan 5, 2022 - 1:41pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
Mob rule!
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jan 5, 2022 - 1:19pm

About 37% of those surveyed said they had lost faith in American democracy, while 10% said they had never had faith in the system. Another 49% said they do have faith.  
This is the real threat.
black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 5, 2022 - 7:18am

 Lazy8 wrote:

Aye, there's the rub: the tone that makes the news. That is, the tone (not even the substance, but the tone) that's fashionable within your bubble. That, dear reader, is on you.

You don't have to stay in a bubble. When someone tells you what someone else thinks and what you should think about that and them you could actually go and check. Listen to/read that person's own words, in context, and decide for yourself: is that what they really think, and what do I think about that myself? It has never, in the entire history of mankind, been easier to do this.

You also seem unable to discern that there are libertarians who aren't in the GOP. No, really! There are people who aren't in your tribe who aren't in The Enemy Tribe. And that it's possible to not belong to a tribe at all. That it's possible to define your politics on their own terms, from principles, rather than as a reaction to (what you perceive of) someone else's politics.

We aren't particularly welcome in the GOP either, btw—but that's a story for another day.

As for factions within libertarianism...libertarianism has vastly more factions than you can probably comprehend. It's hard to even say which of them is the more radical, when there isn't a central orthodoxy but a set of central principles. This has not, apparently, penetrated your bubble.

All of this assumes that you actually care that your view of the world is accurate and that the walls of your bubble aren't mirrored. If not...rock on.

You absolutely won't see us coming.


I would agree.
Too much time/effort spent on "defining" this or that, and too little trying to understand, or even simply interpreting.
As for libertarians, i think they play an important role in the political spectrum, but i wouldn't want them to be in power, as much as i wouldn't want a true socialist in power...regardless of how sensible either sounds on paper, as there are too many opportunities for monopolizing power.
It's all about the proper balance, and mix of influences. 

miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 5, 2022 - 6:03am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I suspect that globally, this article might find sympathetic readers, but around here it will just cause heads to buzz and be dismissed as quickly as possible. That is, to me it seems like the majority of the 2010s' self-described libertarians are in fact now folded back into the GOP and have Fuck Joe Biden flags in the Trump style fluttering behind their pickup trucks.
 
obviously there are people with libertarian leanings in both parties
libertarianism is a philosophy with a couple of over-arching principles (in general if you're not following these principles, then you aren't "libertarian")

a) the acceptance of property rights - the first property right being self ownership (think anti-slavery/serfdom), no-one has a higher claim on your life, your freedom/liberty and your justly acquired/produced property than you do but your are responsible for your actions or the effects of your actions (if you build a house, that's your house, if you punch a guy, that's your crime, etc.)

b) another is the non-aggression principle - you don't initiate force against other peaceful people or have others do it on your behalf (think pro peace)

i don't think libertarians are anti-state as much as they view the initiation of force and violence as immoral
politically (here) we tend to balkanize into one of the two tribes
that makes for easier political control, framing/messaging, fear mongering, etc.

peace


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