Manafort has at least three scheduled trials upcoming. The next one, in a couple of weeks, is for bank fraud and tax-related crimes, which is possibly what that "filing" is about. One of his other trials is for money laundering, obstruction of justice, and acting as an unregistered foreign agent of Ukraine. His lawyers have also requested that Mueller's separate investigation into the campaign's possible collusion with Russia not be mentioned at these two trials because it is not relevant to his trials. It is also very possible that there is little or no evidence of collusion, but that's not what Manafort's next two trials are about anyhow.
Other sources are reporting it; maybe your browser filters out results from CNN:
Nope, no CNN filters. Here is the google search question and results. Since time has passed, my article has moved from page 3 to page 1 and there is now a second article from The National Review, but it's only 4 hours old. Nothing else going into page 3 again.
Sorry for not having a better source. No one else is even reporting this. I had to go three pages deep in google to find this.
Manafort has at least three scheduled trials upcoming. The next one, in a couple of weeks, is for bank fraud and tax-related crimes, which is possibly what that "filing" is about. One of his other trials is for money laundering, obstruction of justice, and acting as an unregistered foreign agent of Ukraine. His lawyers have also requested that Mueller's separate investigation into the campaign's possible collusion with Russia not be mentioned at these two trials because it is not relevant to his trials. It is also very possible that there is little or no evidence of collusion, but that's not what Manafort's next two trials are about anyhow.
Other sources are reporting it; maybe your browser filters out results from CNN:
Special counsel Robert Mueller said in a court filing Friday that his prosecutors will not present evidence regarding Trump campaign collusion with Russia at an upcoming trial for former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort.
“The government does not intend to present at trial evidence or argument concerning collusion with the Russian government,” reads a filing submitted by Mueller’s team in federal court in Virginia on Friday.
The filing sheds light on one of the largest questions looming over the Manafort case. Mueller’s prosecutors have indicted Manafort in federal court in Virginia and Washington, D.C., on a slew of charges related to his consulting work for former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.
Manafort is accused in the unverified Steele dossier of directing the Trump campaign’s efforts to coordinate with the Kremlin to help Trump in the 2016 election. The dossier, which was funded by the Hillary Clinton campaign and DNC, claims that Manafort worked with former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page on the effort. Both Page and Manafort have said they have never met each other.
Mueller has leaned heavily on Manafort since his indictments. Mueller used the witness tampering charge to revoke Manafort’s bail in June. Manafort is now being held in solitary confinement in a Virginia jail while he awaits trial.
. Perhaps Mueller doesn't have any evidence of collusion to show ...
Sorry for not having a better source. No one else is even reporting this. I had to go three pages deep in google to find this.
Sorry for not using the reply button to respond, but RP's server is flaking out and not sending any data back when I try to hit respond...
Again, your posted video of people hassling Trump supporters and your comment "But this stuff is cool, right?" felt like something coming out of left field, without logical reference to other, recent posts. I still don't know what inspired you to post it or what your post was specifically in response to, if anything. If you want to talk about Trump-related incivility and harassment on this thread, have at it. As you likely know, you will get responses pointing out that pro-Trump people have done obnoxious things, and that Trump has dramatically lowered restraint and consideration in public discourse. He's spoken out against political correctness, but he's also gone straight to hatred, rage and bigotry. He is not uniting this country. He is reveling in the ripping apart of the social fabric. It's not entirely Trump's fault that both sides are being rude, but he's definitely contributing to that breakdown of restraint and consideration.
Again, I draw a distinction between Trump administration personnel getting confronted and Trump supporters getting confronted (or hassled). The first set of incidents strike me as indicative of public attitudes towards Trump administration and part of the price that government officials have to pay for carrying out policy decisions. It happened to Obama administration officials and their Congressional supporters: remember all the raucous town hall meetings about the ACA where Congressmen and Senators were confronted by angry crowds demanding that they not take away people's Medicare? That public rage was revelatory because it showed that people valued their health care and felt that Obama and Co. were going to trash it.
I find Maxine Waters a loudmouth and agitator. That kind of talk has a place but when that's all a politician has to say, it's tiresome. I don't pay her much attention. I can't respond to everything posted nor do I want to. Yes, others post a lot of stuff snarking at Trump or Trump supporters. A lot of it I agree with but I don't bother responding to it. I was under the impression that you did want people to respond to your post of that video, btw.
I don't care a great deal about videos showing everyday people sparring with each other. "Trump sucks" vs. "Trump won, suck on it"...so what? What am I supposed to learn from watching that kind of video? If you want to extend the conversation by commenting on that type of video, go ahead. If you just post "But this stuff is cool, right?" , what do you want people to say? You remember the 60s and 70s so you'll remember that people confronted each other angrily and disrespectfully in the past. At some point (like a lot of Trump's tweets) that stuff just becomes pointless spectacle.
If you asked me what sources I consider reputable, I missed that question. Sorry about that. Yes, I think the WSJ is mostly credible (apart from the editorial page) although you did post a WSJ piece about non-hacking of GOP servers that was so remarkably free of details that it felt like a spoof (IIRC I was able to verify that it really was a WSJ piece). The Washington Times and National Review, yes I'd regard them as reliable—really, most mainstream media sources (even FOX) provided the stories contain verifiable facts backed by reliable sources and refrain from editorializing. The NYT, WaPo and Vox back up their reporting with facts and reliable sources (although all news organizations grapple with anonymous sources. When one of their stories gets disputed or disproven, those organizations investigate and publish their findings—retractions too, when it's called for. Right-leaning publications that have investigative integrity and publicly hold themselves accountable, fine. Alex Jones and others who say any old s%&& and fail to admit they were wrong or missing facts—sorry, no.
If you have trouble finding articles from established news organizations (even conservative ones) that back up your opinions, maybe you need to examine and/or change your opinions.
Oh, and this: "Trump's psychobabble pisses of the people that piss me off. Too bad, so sad. He is POTUS. He was legitimately elected."
I guess I have higher expectations of my President than you do. I think the prez should be coherent, acquainted with the facts, and not inclined to lie all the time. If Obama or Clinton babbled like Trump does, I'd want them examined for a stroke or TIA. I would not expect a stadium of their supporters to clap and cheer. Trump was legitimately elected, yes, but given his laziness, narcissism, obsessive-compulsive mendacity and world-class incompetence, that's a sign of how much some people of this country have failed themselves. If you had to work for or with someone like Trump you'd be out of your mind with shock, rage and fear. Finally: I can't help you with illegal immigration. You are not alone with your opinion, I'll say that. But I will tell you this: illegal immigration peaked a long time ago. And this nation has far, far bigger problems than illegal immigration.
Yer right, it was out of left field because no one here ever puts up the other side of the coin. That was the only point of it. Reactions were asked for in a snarky way, but in no way trying to provoke a fight with anyone. Its been years since I quit that doing that. It goes nowhere good. Seeing if it made anyone uncomfortable was more my interest if you really need to know. What has become acceptable to who. That's about as deep as it goes.
Water's talk is ok when she is in The House speaking with the protection of speaking on the Floor that it provides. But she was out in the street last time where one could certainly say that she was inciting violence. Who again has lost the sense of decorum, order ?
You can call Trump a whole lot of things but lazy is not one of them. He's the James Brown of Presidents. He's the hardest working prez in my lifetime, which begins with Truman. This weekend, yeah he was playing golf, but he was on the phone the whole time talking to everyone and anyone regarding the SCOTUS. He even called every senator on the Judiciary Committee. Everyone took his call except one senator. Kamala Harris refused his call. This was reported by Jonathan Roberts as an obtw going to commercial.
I take away two things. Three actually. One, he's working when he's golfing. Two, he's reaching out to everyone on all sides trying to make a decision. Since he is not beholden to any political patrons who can tell him who to choose because we own you, he's listening and working it out in a way that would gain the most cooperation to get it done. And it's his decision, period.
Third, I will remember that Kamala Harris was the one senator who could not do her constitutional duty which is to participate in the advice and consent of the Senate in regards to choosing a SCOTUS justice. I will remember that she is bigger than the Constitution. She refused to do the duty she raised her hand to do and still takes the paycheck. She is not willing to do whatever it takes to get along. I will hold this little thing against her from now until the cows come home. I'm sure that only a Trump supporter would even care, but so what. It's what matters to me.
I am very encouraged lately by Trump's performance. Yeah, I may support him, but I still am watching him very carefully. I'm seeing him make adjustments and getting things right, especially given all the obstacles placed in front of him. Trump is the bad tasting medicine no one wants to take. Look what he is doing with NATO. He's finally getting the freeloaders to pony up their share of the freight bill. Other presidents have tried and failed over the past 30 years. He's actually getting it done. Good for us and them and bad for Russia. This so called trade war we are engaged in ? Are you even aware that Trump's ultimate goal is to end tariffs completely ? He has to make it so ridiculous that everyone can no longer deny who is zooming who and how. Then we can play nice and say why don't we just make all this stuff go away ? And this is the best possible time for us to do this. Our economy is zooming and we can outlast everyone else, if that is what it takes. The goal is worthy. A tariff free world. Kinda like what Reagan did to the USSR with Starwars. We have the power to bankrupt everyone. Remember that Trump was a business major at Wharton. Say what you want, but you can't phone it in there to get a degree. You have to do the work. He may act stupid, but it's an act. It's disarming and also confusing which plays right into his hands. People tend to pay more attention to crazy people than normal people. But no one ever wants to find out how crazy they are. The smart ones will find out what they want and be more willing to do what they want just to get them to go away. I learned this in my 20's while working the streets of Cleveland for 10 years in the 70's and early 80's. Trump is a two time billionaire and now POTUS. I don't know very many stupid people who have accomplished that.
This is just my personal analysis on what I have been observing. You won't find a reference for it anywhere. These are my own thoughts. So take or leave my thoughts here at face value. You are free to call me crazy, reckless, gullible and even misinformed. Like I say, I'm not here to try and persuade anybody of anything anymore other than vinyl is better than CD's. At the very least I get catharsis from doing this. It's now more a feedback loop than anything else that I have created for myself that has evolved over time. That is why I never direct much of anything at anyone here when I post stuff anymore. That may be why you think I come from left field. I go to great lengths to try to not make anything personal. I try to only address someone else in a reply if anything comes my way. Doesn't always work that way, but that's my goal.
Sorry for not using the reply button to respond, but RP's server is flaking out and not sending any data back when I try to hit respond...
Again, your posted video of people hassling Trump supporters and your comment "But this stuff is cool, right?" felt like something coming out of left field, without logical reference to other, recent posts. I still don't know what inspired you to post it or what your post was specifically in response to, if anything. If you want to talk about Trump-related incivility and harassment on this thread, have at it. As you likely know, you will get responses pointing out that pro-Trump people have done obnoxious things, and that Trump has dramatically lowered restraint and consideration in public discourse. He's spoken out against political correctness, but he's also gone straight to hatred, rage and bigotry. He is not uniting this country. He is reveling in the ripping apart of the social fabric. It's not entirely Trump's fault that both sides are being rude, but he's definitely contributing to that breakdown of restraint and consideration.
Again, I draw a distinction between Trump administration personnel getting confronted and Trump supporters getting confronted (or hassled). The first set of incidents strike me as indicative of public attitudes towards Trump administration and part of the price that government officials have to pay for carrying out policy decisions. It happened to Obama administration officials and their Congressional supporters: remember all the raucous town hall meetings about the ACA where Congressmen and Senators were confronted by angry crowds demanding that they not take away people's Medicare? That public rage was revelatory because it showed that people valued their health care and felt that Obama and Co. were going to trash it.
I find Maxine Waters a loudmouth and agitator. That kind of talk has a place but when that's all a politician has to say, it's tiresome. I don't pay her much attention. I can't respond to everything posted nor do I want to. Yes, others post a lot of stuff snarking at Trump or Trump supporters. A lot of it I agree with but I don't bother responding to it. I was under the impression that you did want people to respond to your post of that video, btw.
I don't care a great deal about videos showing everyday people sparring with each other. "Trump sucks" vs. "Trump won, suck on it"...so what? What am I supposed to learn from watching that kind of video? If you want to extend the conversation by commenting on that type of video, go ahead. If you just post "But this stuff is cool, right?" , what do you want people to say? You remember the 60s and 70s so you'll remember that people confronted each other angrily and disrespectfully in the past. At some point (like a lot of Trump's tweets) that stuff just becomes pointless spectacle.
If you asked me what sources I consider reputable, I missed that question. Sorry about that. Yes, I think the WSJ is mostly credible (apart from the editorial page) although you did post a WSJ piece about non-hacking of GOP servers that was so remarkably free of details that it felt like a spoof (IIRC I was able to verify that it really was a WSJ piece). The Washington Times and National Review, yes I'd regard them as reliable—really, most mainstream media sources (even FOX) provided the stories contain verifiable facts backed by reliable sources and refrain from editorializing. The NYT, WaPo and Vox back up their reporting with facts and reliable sources (although all news organizations grapple with anonymous sources. When one of their stories gets disputed or disproven, those organizations investigate and publish their findings—retractions too, when it's called for. Right-leaning publications that have investigative integrity and publicly hold themselves accountable, fine. Alex Jones and others who say any old s%&& and fail to admit they were wrong or missing facts—sorry, no.
If you have trouble finding articles from established news organizations (even conservative ones) that back up your opinions, maybe you need to examine and/or change your opinions.
Oh, and this:
"Trump's psychobabble pisses of the people that piss me off. Too bad, so sad. He is POTUS. He was legitimately elected."
I guess I have higher expectations of my President than you do. I think the prez should be coherent, acquainted with the facts, and not inclined to lie all the time. If Obama or Clinton babbled like Trump does, I'd want them examined for a stroke or TIA. I would not expect a stadium of their supporters to clap and cheer. Trump was legitimately elected, yes, but given his laziness, narcissism, obsessive-compulsive mendacity and world-class incompetence, that's a sign of how much some people of this country have failed themselves. If you had to work for or with someone like Trump you'd be out of your mind with shock, rage and fear.
Finally: I can't help you with illegal immigration. You are not alone with your opinion, I'll say that. But I will tell you this: illegal immigration peaked a long time ago. And this nation has far, far bigger problems than illegal immigration.
Yes, you have a right to change the subject. You often do, it seems to me, in an attempt to distract the focus of this thread from valid and substantive critiques of Trump and his policies. Many times I have responded to your posts by addressing your thoughts point by point and with links backing up my counter-arguments up. I rarely if ever get a response from you. About two weekends ago,
I think, you said something to the effect that you didn't provide supporting evidence to your thoughts because
you were outnumbered and you'd be rebutted by so many anti-Trumpers that you'd be overwhelmed.
I found that response frustrating: a valid argument is a valid argument, whether it's posted by 20 people or just one.
No, it was more like what could I use as a credible source ? What would be accepted by everyone ? The NYT, The WAPO, or Vox , or what exactly ? None of those are going to be useful for any point I'm trying to make. Nearly anything that I might use, even the WSJ would be challenged as nothing more than a right wing mouthpiece and denounced as propaganda, not a credible source. There is a dearth of outlets that people on the left would admit to being credible when it comes to Trump. Fox ? Ya, I've lost before I start and no one would even look at it let alone consider it. The Washington Times or Examiner ?
I asked you specifically what sources you would consider credible and you never answered.
How often have any of my thoughts been considered to be a valid argument ? Maybe one out of twenty ? Look at my exchange with Coax. I answered his questions and still he said I didn't. I mentioned what Trump was saying was shtick. And then what was wrong with America ? I went for the lowest common denominator ... that life has become so mean and complicated that a kid needed an attorney to open a lemonade stand in their front yard and perhaps if it wasn't like that we wouldn't have scenarios where children of illegal immigrants wouldn't be separated from their parents, as that was what he thought was the most pressing problem we have. I thought that I had a valid thought and answer. He didn't. Said he couldn't fathom what I was thinking about. I did not even start a conversation with him, he just jumped on my response to you and we went from there. i din't say that I wasn't talking to him in my response to you, I simply responded to him seriously and honestly.
So I have 20 different points of view and thought processes to address, where you twenty only have one and will address it 20 different ways. You do the math and the English and the paraphrasing and everything it takes to address twenty different disagreeing takes on one subject. All twenty of you might not even be correct, but it doesn't matter if you all think you are. I have said over and over again, I am not here to persuade or change thoughts. That is impossible and a fools errand, especially when coming from my point of view here.
And what of the many who post headlines or excerpts without comment ? Why do you only challenge me and not them as well ? There are two peeps in particular who spam this place all day long with these types of things, but you single me out and give them a pass.
The video that you posted of attacks on Trump fans just seemed to me like a distraction and/or a refusal to respond to the criticisms leveled at Trump. Again, you provided no explanation about why you posted it. You can change the subject here, sure, and start a new subject
but if you just post a video without any comment that would invite a response from others,
your post just feels like an attempt to distract. If you want to talk about disrespect leveled at Trump supporters, feel free to talk about it. The erosion of respect and civil discourse in this country is a dangerous trend and as your post shows, the trouble is coming from the left as well as the right.
I guess that you missed the question under the video.
kurtster wrote:
But this stuff is cool, right ?
That was the part that you posted your response to.
kcar wrote:
kurtster wrote:
But this stuff is cool, right ?
If all you have to post are videos like this and comments about Barbra Streisand's possible hypocrisy, you really don't have anything substantive to say.
To which I replied with ...
kurtster wrote:
I put this up to counter all the stuff that only shows incivility by those who might support Trump. Anyone who would pop in here for the first time and look around would think that there is no such thing as incivility directed at those who support Trump or that it is totally justifiable because it is directed at Trump and those who would support Trump. Its nice to see that unlike you, there are some here who do find it objectionable.
You only questioned me putting it up, not its content.
And you objected to my bolded above as an unfair remark.
If you want to talk about disrespect leveled at Trump supporters, feel free to talk about it. The erosion of respect and civil discourse in this country is a dangerous trend and as your post shows, the trouble is coming from the left as well as the right.
Yeah, right. Look at the thoughts when Sanders got tossed from the restaurant. Most, not all, but most supported the restaurant saying Sanders deserved what she gets for doing her job. She is fair game. Has anyone here even denounced Maxine Water's here for her calls immediately after the Sanders thing to basically hunt down members of the Trump administration ? Not one word. I was going to bring it up shortly after I posted the video we are discussing. I thought not in the end thinking of all the crap I would get over that.
PS—btw you mentioned in a previous post that your position on illegal immigration was based on the resources and benefits taken away from deserving law-abiding people and given to illegal immigrants. "The pie is only so big" I think you wrote. As I have written to you before, immigrants both legal and illegal actually help grow that pie by contributing to the economy; one reliable way to boost the productivity of the economy is to increase the number of workers in it. Illegal immigration is a slight aggregate net plus for the American economy.
Yes and no. My position on illegal immigration is that it is simply wrong and against our laws and a disrespect of our sovereignty and borders. No borders, no country. Been saying that for decades. Long before I noticed Trump as anything. Since the 60's. Been against the idea of anchor babies again since the 60's because of my awareness from growing up in California in the 50's and 60's. But ... yes the pie is only so big. I don't care if illegals contribute positively, they shouldn't be here in the first place and we are ruining our social well being in fights over defending them vs defending the laws that say they are here illegally. That is as far as I am going to go on this, now. I have gone in circles on this subject here for 12 years and I get tired of being called a bigot, racist and xenophobe for even using the term illegal immigrant.
PPS—you also mentioned in another post that Trump's word salad was a schtick designed to please his base. I think you may be right but that notion freaks anti-Trumpers out: there are times when his words don't make any goddamned sense. Wouldn't his fans like a President who doesn't babble pointlessly while riffing? More importantly, Trump's riffs during his rallies are filled with lies and falsehoods yet his supporters don't seem willing to call him on it. Are his supporters that trapped in a bubble that the truth doesn't matter to them, that they don't care that Trump is actually making life worse for most of them?
Trump's psychobabble pisses of the people that piss me off. Too bad, so sad. He is POTUS. He was legitimately elected. But no worries ... ITMFA
This is me and this is what you get anymore as I am considered little more than a right wing troll here that most wish would go away, forever. I act accordingly.
I even have to defend buying a freaking turntable in a political thread. That is how fucking petty and personal it gets.
No, scott I'm not playing butthurt, it's just saying ...
So let's get back to what is important, right ? ITMFA and Russia, Russia, Russia and fuck this country, support your local Sanctuary City instead.
First, I cannot change the subject ? Really ? "Trump" covers a lot of things, not one thing, one at a time. And then we have the any thing the least bit favorable will be met with some sort of crap rather quickly regardless.
Did I enter into a fight with anyone ? I don't think so. I only responded to you and nobody else because you made a statement directed at me. I think "You only questioned me putting it up, not its content." is a fair statement in response to you. Otherwise I would not have responded to you either. Coax and I had a reasonable conversation when he replied to my reply to you. We didn't agree on much but there wasn't any name calling or vitriol involved. It went really downhill after that.
And on the last one ... I only traded an F for an F. One can and the other cannot ? Really ? And the DF's is plural making it impersonal to boot.
Finally I brought up my legal standing as defined by the government, permanently disabled and living in poverty for the past 9 years. Sympathy or pity is not what I'm after here, or I would have brought this up in this context years ago. Yeah it is well known I have cancer, but no one knew about my financial standing. Only because I'm tired of everything and don't care anymore. I have never complained about my lot in life here, just mentioned how certain policies might affect people in general and sometimes me personally. Still that makes me a member of two legally defined classes with standing. Only one other person here that also would qualify that I know of and my plight is nothing compared to his. So while people will speculate on behalf of "these" people in warm and fuzzy feel good platitudes in a condescending we know what's best for you way, I'm speaking up now as one of them and can speak for myself. You all (I'm being careful here) cannot tell me I don't know what it means to live in poverty and speak legitimately on that basis about how events affect the poor and disabled in current and relevant terms. Y'all are just guessing what it's like. Buying a turntable does not disqualify me.
Yes, you have a right to change the subject. You often do, it seems to me, in an attempt to distract the focus of this thread from valid and substantive critiques of Trump and his policies. Many times I have responded to your posts by addressing your thoughts point by point and with links backing up my counter-arguments up. I rarely if ever get a response from you. About two weekends ago, I think, you said something to the effect that you didn't provide supporting evidence to your thoughts because you were outnumbered and you'd be rebutted by so many anti-Trumpers that you'd be overwhelmed. I found that response frustrating: a valid argument is a valid argument, whether it's posted by 20 people or just one.
The video that you posted of attacks on Trump fans just seemed to me like a distraction and/or a refusal to respond to the criticisms leveled at Trump. Again, you provided no explanation about why you posted it. You can change the subject here, sure, and start a new subject but if you just post a video without any comment that would invite a response from others, your post just feels like an attempt to distract. If you want to talk about disrespect leveled at Trump supporters, feel free to talk about it. The erosion of respect and civil discourse in this country is a dangerous trend and as your post shows, the trouble is coming from the left as well as the right.
I wish you good luck and good fortune in all your endeavors and aspects of your life, Kurt. Shine on, you crazy diamond.
PS—btw you mentioned in a previous post that your position on illegal immigration was based on the resources and benefits taken away from deserving law-abiding people and given to illegal immigrants. "The pie is only so big" I think you wrote. As I have written to you before, immigrants both legal and illegal actually help grow that pie by contributing to the economy; one reliable way to boost the productivity of the economy is to increase the number of workers in it. Illegal immigration is a slight aggregate net plus for the American economy.
PPS—you also mentioned in another post that Trump's word salad was a schtick designed to please his base. I think you may be right but that notion freaks anti-Trumpers out: there are times when his words don't make any goddamned sense. Wouldn't his fans like a President who doesn't babble pointlessly while riffing? More importantly, Trump's riffs during his rallies are filled with lies and falsehoods yet his supporters don't seem willing to call him on it. Are his supporters that trapped in a bubble that the truth doesn't matter to them, that they don't care that Trump is actually making life worse for most of them?
This is not fair, nor is it acceptable,” the pre-teen, petulant president wrote on Twitter
(OK, I added the words in italics). He isn't aware that criticizing others is only useful if they respect your opinion. And who uses Twitter to steer international politics? The Cheeto-in-Chief.
I hear you brother... I was the Phillies first round draft pick back in 1978 for my blistering fastball and devastating knee-buckling curve.
Took a pass though as I wanted to be able to smoke weed without being hassled.
Time Magazine called to say that I was PROBABLY going to be named “Man (Person) of the Year,” like last year, but I would have to agree to an interview and a major photo shoot.
I hear you brother... I was the Phillies first round draft pick back in 1978 for my blistering fastball and devastating knee-buckling curve.
Took a pass though as I wanted to be able smoke weed without being hassled.
You've got to be true to yourself.
This does give a little more window into your fear of over reaching government, and also the source of your bitterness which fueled the sarcasm we all came to love in the TBTB thread.
Maybe I would have attained a higher financial status in life had I not made the decision to never have a job that involved random testing. I put personal happiness in front of personal financial gain. I walked that talk. I also do not begrudge those that chose differently and put money first in their lives. Just hope that they are happy and not mean or condescending to people that chose different ways to live their lives and have not been a burden to society along that life path.
I hear you brother... I was the Phillies first round draft pick back in 1978 for my blistering fastball and devastating knee-buckling curve.
Took a pass though as I wanted to be able to smoke weed without being hassled.
Sorry to bring this up again, but you did respond to me (and in a rather snarky way—that really isn't a good idea, btw, esp. when I've stood up for you in the past).
I didn't find your posting of that video of people harassing Trump supporters relevant, mainly because you said nothing about why you posted it. In fact,
it sure looks to me like to me that you were trying to pick a fight when you posted that video: you didn't post it response to another post or the subjects under discussion at the time.
The rest of us were discussing and mocking Trump:
you changed the subject to harassment of pro-Trumpers.
I don't recall RPers commenting in this thread about the incivility of Trump's supporters (the supposed reason for your countering that notion with your video of anti-Trump incivility), but perhaps they have made those comments. I'm far more interested in talking about policy and the Mueller investigation. The protests directed at the staff of Trump's administration are mildly interesting because the people are protesting Trump's policies, often spontaneously, at individuals carrying out Trump's decisions. The video you posted about people harassing everyday people who are wearing signs of support for Trump isdisturbing: people have a right to support Trump and not be harassed because of it.
"Its nice to see that unlike you, there are some here who do find it objectionable."
You will not find any statement from me on these boards approving of people throwing a drink at a Trump supporter or stealing a MAGA hat. That kind of behavior is disturbing, obnoxious and stupidly counter-productive. I don't have a problem with people showing incivility towards Trump and his administration personnel: that is part of the price of having power and wielding it, especially in a careless and callous manner. Trump, I think we can agree, is the last person who deserves civility and respect: he spews hatred, intolerance and abuse at almost anyone who doesn't kiss his butt.
"You only questioned me putting it up, not its content."
Again, you failed to state how the video of people harassing Trump's supporters was relevant to this thread. In fact, most of the posts here are focused on Trump's statements and policies and NOT on Trump's supporters or any incivility shown towards them. When Red_Dragon posted "ITMFA", YOU were the one who wrote "Yeah, bring on Pence 46 !
DF's" So it looks like you're being rude here all on your own, fella.
Since you're parsing ...
First, I cannot change the subject ? Really ? "Trump" covers a lot of things, not one thing, one at a time. And then we have the any thing the least bit favorable will be met with some sort of crap rather quickly regardless.
Did I enter into a fight with anyone ? I don't think so. I only responded to you and nobody else because you made a statement directed at me. I think "You only questioned me putting it up, not its content." is a fair statement in response to you. Otherwise I would not have responded to you either. Coax and I had a reasonable conversation when he replied to my reply to you. We didn't agree on much but there wasn't any name calling or vitriol involved. It went really downhill after that.
And on the last one ... I only traded an F for an F. One can and the other cannot ? Really ? And the DF's is plural making it impersonal to boot.
Finally I brought up my legal standing as defined by the government, permanently disabled and living in poverty for the past 9 years. Sympathy or pity is not what I'm after here, or I would have brought this up in this context years ago. Yeah it is well known I have cancer, but no one knew about my financial standing. Only because I'm tired of everything and don't care anymore. I have never complained about my lot in life here, just mentioned how certain policies might affect people in general and sometimes me personally. Still that makes me a member of two legally defined classes with standing. Only one other person here that also would qualify that I know of and my plight is nothing compared to his. So while people will speculate on behalf of "these" people in warm and fuzzy feel good platitudes in a condescending we know what's best for you way, I'm speaking up now as one of them and can speak for myself. You all (I'm being careful here) cannot tell me I don't know what it means to live in poverty and speak legitimately on that basis about how events affect the poor and disabled in current and relevant terms. Y'all are just guessing what it's like. Buying a turntable does not disqualify me.
If all you have to post are videos like this and comments about Barbra Streisand's possible hypocrisy, you really don't have anything substantive to say.
kurtster wrote:
I put this up to counter all the stuff that only shows incivility by those who might support Trump. Anyone who would pop in here for the first time and look around would think that there is no such thing as incivility directed at those who support Trump or that it is totally justifiable because it is directed at Trump and those who would support Trump. Its nice to see that unlike you, there are some here who do find it objectionable.
You only questioned me putting it up, not its content.
I haven't see anyone objecting to anything that calls for incivility towards Trump and his supporters, until now. Why is that ? I guess because most think it either doesn't exist or it is justified.
I am not afraid to denounce assholes who are attributed to be Trump supporters when brought up here should I see it.
Sorry to bring this up again, but you did respond to me (and in a rather snarky way—that really isn't a good idea, btw, esp. when I've stood up for you in the past).
I didn't find your posting of that video of people harassing Trump supporters relevant, mainly because you said nothing about why you posted it. In fact, it sure looks to me like to me that you were trying to pick a fight when you posted that video: you didn't post it response to another post or the subjects under discussion at the time. The rest of us were discussing and mocking Trump: you changed the subject to harassment of pro-Trumpers. I don't recall RPers commenting in this thread about the incivility of Trump's supporters (the supposed reason for your countering that notion with your video of anti-Trump incivility), but perhaps they have made those comments. I'm far more interested in talking about policy and the Mueller investigation. The protests directed at the staff of Trump's administration are mildly interesting because the people are protesting Trump's policies, often spontaneously, at individuals carrying out Trump's decisions. The video you posted about people harassing everyday people who are wearing signs of support for Trump isdisturbing: people have a right to support Trump and not be harassed because of it.
"Its nice to see that unlike you, there are some here who do find it objectionable."
You will not find any statement from me on these boards approving of people throwing a drink at a Trump supporter or stealing a MAGA hat. That kind of behavior is disturbing, obnoxious and stupidly counter-productive. I don't have a problem with people showing incivility towards Trump and his administration personnel: that is part of the price of having power and wielding it, especially in a careless and callous manner. Trump, I think we can agree, is the last person who deserves civility and respect: he spews hatred, intolerance and abuse at almost anyone who doesn't kiss his butt.
"You only questioned me putting it up, not its content."
Again, you failed to state how the video of people harassing Trump's supporters was relevant to this thread. In fact, most of the posts here are focused on Trump's statements and policies and NOT on Trump's supporters or any incivility shown towards them. When Red_Dragon posted "ITMFA", YOU were the one who wrote
"Yeah, bring on Pence 46 !
DF's"
So it looks like you're being rude here all on your own, fella.
