Closer To Truth

A fantastic series exploring science, cosmology and spirituality in a pragmatic and intelligent way. 
Thoughtful conversations with scientists, philosophers and theologians. I highly recommend it. 
Have a listen to these people discuss these topics - then have a look at the way it's discussed
here (at RP). 

If you haven't seen this show...you should check it out.

http://www.atheist-experience.com/

Just a wonderful discussion show on religion and atheism. Matt Dillahunty is a particularly good host.

 Beaker wrote: 
Well that was predictable.  Sorry to you too.  Gwah, even.

I actually meant "disagreed with at times, perhaps outnumbered".  Who's presumptuous?

 Lazy8 wrote:

Thanks for sending me down my own little bunny trail.  I (respectfully, of course) completely disagree and, as often happens, when I come across something a I know isn't true for me (FOR ME) it helped me clarify what I do think, it forced me to shape and sharpen my own thoughts on the subject.  So a tip of the hat to everyone who participated. 

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 

I know, I am just giving you a hard time. It's all in fun!  I am rarely serious for too long, bad for your health.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
Fair enough.  Under the circumstances, I suppose it would be difficult for it to not be taken that way versus the sincere way that I actually meant it.  I suppose it would have been better for me to say "Eternity is a long time for someone to spend realizing they were wrong".  Yes, I know, I'm not improving your perspective of my output here... you probably view it as toxic spew.  I view it as concern.  Then again, I believe in Heaven and Hell, and you don't.

Why do I feel like Beaker right now?


Just kidding, Beaker. 

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 

Same here! Cheers!

 brandonjosborn wrote: 

I agree. Life is too short to argue the inarguable. However, it is salient to argue the negative or positive effects that Religion and belief in general bring, just not arguing what to believe or even to believe at all. Pointless conversation that one.

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 
My intent in creating this thread is that of honest discussion using thinking skills, not visceral attack skills - I have studied comparative religion for much of my life, I am an atheist - I don't believe that Thor, Pan, Ra, Jehovah, Jesus, are any more real than batman, the tooth fairy, or that bunny.  Atheism is America's Great Taboo - even "worse" than being gay.  This is an open forum to discuss ideas relating to atheism / humanism, and I'd appreciate it if any "god bashing" were taken to it's own thread - nobody's ever going to convert me to christianity, I see religion as control mechanism, and spirituality as hopeful ignorance - but, I have no interest in changing anyone's opinion concerning their relationship between themselves and what / who they perceive as deity; my intention here is to be a supportive resource for those who are thinking about and questioning the ideas of religion, faith, etc., as they relate to morality, personal actualization, mortality, and so on.

If these discussions bother anyone,  or assault their sensitivities, I would think that they would have the brains to just stay out of this thread.  IMO, this is the only life I have, I have better things to do with it than quibble over the assumptions of invisible truths.

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 

I think you actually took the prize for being condescending in this thread and the competition was very steep as you pointed out earlier, congratulations!

 Lazy8 wrote: 
My self-image doesn't require anything of the sort and I am admittedly wrong for choosing to be offended.  God wouldn't want me to be because my motivation is, in it's simplest form by self-realization, judgement.  It backs up what I've been trying to convey in opposition to statements like "religion has been the reason for conflict and destruction".  It's not the belief or religion that's caused it.  It's a weak, mortal's lack of restraint when they become offended by another's opinion.  My restraint is still weak when it comes to God-bashing, but not so weak that I cannot accept adversity.  Debate and open communication is the solution to verbal conflict and verbal conflict is where war gets started.  I am a work in progress and I accept that about myself.  Christians who truly believe want for as many others to as well and likewise, be saved after death. It isn't my intention to force an ideal on anyone out of personal gain.  I am not in misery therefore I have no selfish motivation for company.  I fear for those that don't believe in anything afterward, especially those that I admire and respect.  I don't want pain and suffering for eternity for them.  I don't want for it to be too late for them.  Eternity is a long time to spend realizing that you were wrong. 

*EDIT*  After contemplating what I typed, I cannot (again, self-realized) totally agree with my own statement that religion hasn't caused wars and conflict.  I come to this conclusion realizing that anything passionate to one is important and the denial of that passion causes conflict.  I uphold my statement about the pure form of faith-based spirituality.  Those conflicts arise from our inability to restrain ourselves.  They come from misguided reasons such as people, indeed, trying to force beliefs upon another  My intention is to defend the faith, not mankind's conflict over it. 

HC, I apologize for my statement to you and for any ill-will or disregard to YOUR feelings.  I was wrong. 

 Lazy8 wrote: 
Amen.
 
IKMIRD 

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 
Never been true in my experience. Maybe you can just choose to believe things, I can't. I tried. If I could have my life would have been a lot easier.

When we're little children we believe what we're told because we trust those who tell us, but eventually we learn that they can be wrong or dishonest for all kinds of reasons. That first instinct keeps us alive until we can think for ourselves, the second keeps us alive once we can. Maybe you can turn this off, I can't. Tell me something you can't prove and I won't believe it. If it helps you can tell yourself god made me that way.

No one is telling you atheists don't have feelings. We're all human. Your passion doesn't make what you believe true tho.

Feel free to defend your beliefs. I don't need to make you stop believing them, but if your self-image requires that others accept your beliefs you're going to get your feelings hurt unless you hang out exclusively with people who believe what you do. People like me exist and have every right to take our places in the public sphere. We aren't going away, and we won't sit quietly and say "amen" when we don't mean it.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
I have to say that I respect your statement here more than any.  If I may, though, it is absolutely your business.  If or when the time comes to engage that topic with yourself, you'll surely know.  Thank you for the exchange this morning.  Have a good day, SD.

 sirdroseph wrote: 
You're right.  My bad.  It's my own responsibility to steer clear of contempt and take heed of what I take in and yep, my fault for walking into something to be offended by.  I certainly didn't embark upon this thread to "ask an atheist" anything, truth be told.  I suppose I just wanted to discern those that are capable of engaging in this passively or aggressively in contrast to those that I perceive as itchin' to offend to satisfy my own curiosity.  I got what I was looking for.   

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 
Which is why I do not discuss this issue with believers IRL out of respect for their feelings. This is an internet forum where the post is titled Ask an Atheist. Pretty self explanatory as to what we are discussing here.
BTW, I am not an Atheist. I think that Atheist and believers are pretty arrogant. I am not smart enough to be so sure either way. My personal slant is that it is none of my business whether their is a God or not. If there is a God and he wants me to believe, then I will. If there is not, there is nothing to look for. I really try not to think much more than that about it. I am a simple man.

 hippiechick wrote: 

That's his problem, not mine.

 hippiechick wrote: 
Therein lies the source of your contempt, self-admitted.  I don't think you disbelieve, HC.  I think you believe in God, and you hate Him.

A belief is a thought, which is a story made to supply an answer to to a feeling we don't understand.

 MusicIsMotion wrote: 

WRONG