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ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 2, 2022 - 12:03pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

He's a Democrat.


We can switch parties at the primary if we want to. I've done that a couple of times to vote for friends but I would not do it to vote for Liz.

A lot of Democrats are planning to switch but I know from history that not as many do as say they do. Liz has sent out postcards telling people that they can switch and how to do it.

From a taking-the-long-view view, voting for Liz is the worst option, especially if she wins. Because it literally endorses all the bad shit she will do day in and day out. As I tell my friends, if I want to give her kudos for her position on the coup attempt, I'll send her a Hallmark card. The very best. Beyond that, she's the most effective legislator of the bunch, probably one of the most effective in the entire house. From where I sit, the total whackjobs would be better to send than a calm, confident Liz. Their votes will be essentially the same but the number of people they can persuade to come along is vastly different.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 2, 2022 - 11:08am

 rgio wrote:
So who do you vote for?  One of the conspiracy-toting MAGA disciples?  For all of her far-right policies, Liz seems to be the only reasonable person on that stage.

He's a Democrat.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 2, 2022 - 9:44am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Super fun! Highlights from the debate. By the way, Liz is going to have to do it without my vote. She's still going to be very bad for a very long time if she gets past this point.

So who do you vote for?  One of the conspiracy-toting MAGA disciples?  For all of her far-right policies, Liz seems to be the only reasonable person on that stage.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jul 2, 2022 - 9:30am

Accounts of Trump angrily demanding to go to Capitol on January 6 circulated in Secret Service over past year

CNN)Then-President Donald Trump angrily demanded to go to the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, and berated his protective detail when he didn't get his way, according to two Secret Service sources who say they heard about the incident from multiple agents, including the driver of the presidential SUV where it occurred.

The sources tell CNN that stories circulated about the incident — including details that are similar to how former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson described it to the House select committee investigating January 6 — in the months immediately afterward the US Capitol attack and before she testified this week.

While the details from those who heard the accounts differ, the Secret Service sources say they were told an angry confrontation did occur. And their accounts align with significant parts of Hutchinson's testimony, which has been attacked as hearsay by Trump and his allies who also have tried to discredit her overall testimony.

...

Democratic Rep. Zoe Lofgren of California, a member of the committee, said that the agents can come to the panel and dispute the claims under oath.

"No one is denying that the President wanted to go to the Capitol where this armed mob was attacking the Congress and trying to overturn the election," Lofgren said in an interview on CNN's AC360 on Wednesday night. "That is the main point shocking as the story about the limousine lurch was. The real legal import was that he wanted to go up there and nobody is disputing that."


Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jul 1, 2022 - 7:36pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


Worse: She's a Cheney!


Well, that goes without saying.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 1, 2022 - 7:34pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:


Yeah, I appreciate what she's doing on this committee, but she's still a fascist.


Worse: She's a Cheney!
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jul 1, 2022 - 7:22pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


Super fun! Highlights from the debate. By the way, Liz is going to have to do it without my vote. She's still going to be very bad for a very long time if she gets past this point.


Yeah, I appreciate what she's doing on this committee, but she's still a fascist.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 1, 2022 - 7:19pm

 rgio wrote:

From what little coverage I saw, Liz is talking about her oath, and the front-runner is talking about the stolen election...except when asked about it in a debate setting.



Super fun! Highlights from the debate. By the way, Liz is going to have to do it without my vote. She's still going to be very bad for a very long time if she gets past this point.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 1, 2022 - 12:39pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

So I was listening to the Wyoming GOP debates for Cheney's seat, and was struck by (many many things, but) how amongst the contenders, no one mentions or acknowledges "January 6," it's "the J6 situation" or just J6. Denatured nomenclature... can't have another "day which will live in infamy" or "never forget" December 7 September 11 January 6 phenomenon.


From what little coverage I saw, Liz is talking about her oath, and the front-runner is talking about the stolen election...except when asked about it in a debate setting.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 1, 2022 - 11:17am

So I was listening to the Wyoming GOP debates for Cheney's seat, and was struck by (many many things, but) how amongst the contenders, no one mentions or acknowledges "January 6," it's "the J6 situation" or just J6. Denatured nomenclature... can't have another "day which will live in infamy" or "never forget" December 7 September 11 January 6 phenomenon.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 1, 2022 - 5:10am

 kurtster wrote:

.
It would seem based upon this, with the subject of were or were not troops authorized by Trump, that Miller acted on his own to not use any regardless of what Trump wanted for the reasons mentioned above. This makes his cred and integrity doubtful at the least.  Maybe insubordinate.


If Trump had authorized Troops, does it seem reasonable that he would sit alone in a room while all of this goes on?  No calls?  No yelling at the insubordinate Miller?  No tweets about the failures of others to follow his brilliant plan to protect the capital?  I mean...he was tweeting a fair amount that day...

Tweets from the Donald - January 6, 2021

03:28:36 - Looks like they are setting up a big voter dump against the Republican candidates. Waiting to see how many votes they need?

05:08:24 - Just happened to have found another 4000 ballots from Fulton County. Here we go!

05:43:42 - Get smart Republicans. FIGHT! https://t.co/3fs1oPVnAx

06:00:50 - If Vice President @Mike_Pence comes through for us, we will win the Presidency. Many States want to decertify the mistake they made in certifying incorrect & even fraudulent numbers in a process NOT approved by their State Legislatures (which it must be). Mike can send it back!

8:06:45 - Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd is so happy with the fake voter tabulation process that he can't even get the words out straight. Sad to watch!

8:17:22 - States want to correct their votes, which they now know were based on irregularities and fraud, plus corrupt process never received legislative approval. All Mike Pence has to do is send them back to the States, AND WE WIN. Do it Mike, this is a time for extreme courage!

8:22:26 - THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, OUR COUNTRY, NEEDS THE PRESIDENCY MORE THAN EVER BEFORE - THE POWER OF THE VETO. STAY STRONG!

9:00:12 - They just happened to find 50,000 ballots late last night. The USA is embarrassed by fools. Our Election Process is worse than that of third world countries!

9:15:07 - The States want to redo their votes. They found out they voted on a FRAUD. Legislatures never approved. Let them do it. BE STRONG!

9:16:30 - Even Mexico uses Voter I.D.

10:44:31 - These scoundrels are only toying with the @sendavidperdue (a great guy) vote. Just didn't want to announce quite yet. They've got as many ballots as are necessary. Rigged Election!


13:00 - INITIAL BARRICADES ARE BROKEN THROUGH BY PROTESTORS AT THE CAPITAL

14:24:22 - Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!

14:38:58 - Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!

15:13:26 - I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!


No doubt with all the lying and attacking his Vice President for not doing something he couldn't do, he simply forgot to mention the 10,000 National Guard troops he approved to prevent this from happening.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 11:40pm

So trump claims he "authorized" 10,000 troops on January 5 to be deployed on the AM of January 6. If he thinks it would be possible to set up any kind of security involving that number of troops on that time frame, he is clearly too incompetent to be Commander in Chief.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 8:28pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:


It's CNN; it MUST be bullshit.


Miller was not alone in regarding Trump's comment about the need for 10,000 troops as an off-hand comment.


https://www.washingtonpost.com...

In fact, the Defense Department never acted on Trump’s remarks, according to our reporting, as department officials did not regard the offhand comment to be a “direct order,” as Meadows claimed.

Miller and other senior Pentagon officials did not relay the 10,000 figure to anyone outside the Defense Department, according to a former U.S. official who was familiar with the matter. “They didn’t act on it, because based on discussions with federal and local law enforcement leadership, they didn’t think a force of that size would be necessary,” the former official told The Fact Checker.

Indeed, the official Defense Department planning and execution memo on the Jan. 6 events also makes no mention of any such discussion. Instead, it notes the possible activation of 340 National Guard troops to assist the D.C. government with traffic control — a move that came about after a Dec. 31 request by Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D).




Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 7:10pm

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 6:32pm

 kurtster wrote:

My that was fast.  Your kurtster alarm must have gone off.

Yeah, it's your favorite flavor.  Your head is big and fat from over eating it is why ...


Just happened to be here; don't take yourself too seriously.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 6:25pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:
It's CNN; it MUST be bullshit.
 
My that was fast.  Your kurtster alarm must have gone off.

Yeah, it's your favorite flavor.  Your head is big and fat from over eating it is why ...
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 6:22pm

 kurtster wrote:

Here, chew on this ... from a source I am loathe to use, but ...

May 11, 2021
CNN - Former acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller is expected to tell Congress Wednesday that he was concerned sending US troops to Capitol on January 6 would have encouraged the conspiracy of a possible “military coup,” according to his prepared testimony obtained by CNN.
...
Miller, who is scheduled to testify publicly for the first time about the insurrection, also maintains that if he had sent troops to the Capitol any time before noon that day it would have “created the biggest constitutional crisis since Watergate,” according to a source familiar with his thinking. The military has been criticized for not responding faster to aid US Capitol Police in pushing back protestors.

“My concerns regarding the appropriate and limited use of the military in domestic matters were heightened by commentary in the media about the possibility of a military coup or that advisors to the President were advocating the declaration of martial law,” his prepared testimony for the House Oversight Committee states.
It would seem based upon this, with the subject of were or were not troops authorized by Trump, that Miller acted on his own to not use any regardless of what Trump wanted for the reasons mentioned above.  Miller is a captive of and clearly afraid of the media and let it influence his decisions, despite what he was told to do by POTUS.  This makes his cred and integrity doubtful at the least.



It's CNN; it MUST be bullshit.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 6:20pm

Here, chew on this ... from a source I am loathe to use, but ...

May 11, 2021
CNN - Former acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller is expected to tell Congress Wednesday that he was concerned sending US troops to Capitol on January 6 would have encouraged the conspiracy of a possible “military coup,” according to his prepared testimony obtained by CNN.
...
Miller, who is scheduled to testify publicly for the first time about the insurrection, also maintains that if he had sent troops to the Capitol any time before noon that day it would have “created the biggest constitutional crisis since Watergate,” according to a source familiar with his thinking. The military has been criticized for not responding faster to aid US Capitol Police in pushing back protestors.

“My concerns regarding the appropriate and limited use of the military in domestic matters were heightened by commentary in the media about the possibility of a military coup or that advisors to the President were advocating the declaration of martial law,” his prepared testimony for the House Oversight Committee states.

.
It would seem based upon this, with the subject of were or were not troops authorized by Trump, that Miller acted on his own to not use any regardless of what Trump wanted for the reasons mentioned above. This makes his cred and integrity doubtful at the least.  Maybe insubordinate.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 2:29pm

More from the Politifact piece:


No basis for 10,000, 20,000 number

As PolitiFact previously reported, what Trump described in February 2021 as a formal request for 10,000 troops was actually an offhand remark to then-acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller. Miller said he took it as hyperbole based on Trump’s expectation for a massive crowd. There’s no evidence the remark was handled as an official authorization.

A Vanity Fair reporter who followed Miller during the last week of Trump’s administration detailed the remark in a report. The report said that on Jan. 5, 2021, Miller and his chief of staff Kash Patel were meeting with Trump about an issue related to Iran. (A Defense Department inspector general’s reportappeared to place the meeting on Jan. 3.)

The Vanity Fair report said the conversation suddenly "switched gears":

"The president, Miller recalled, asked how many troops the Pentagon planned to turn out the following day. "We’re like, ‘We’re going to provide any National Guard support that the District requests,’" Miller responded. "And (Trump) goes, ‘You’re going to need 10,000 people.’ No, I’m not talking bullshit. He said that. And we’re like, ‘Maybe. But you know, someone’s going to have to ask for it.’" At that point Miller remembered the president telling him, "‘You do what you need to do. You do what you need to do.’ He said, ‘You’re going to need 10,000.’ That’s what he said. Swear to God."



kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2022 - 2:24pm

From the Politifact piece I linked to:

There’s still no record of any such authorization being made, or of Pelosi standing in the way. The D.C. National Guard reports "solely to the president of the United States," per its website.

"This is not true," Pelosi’s deputy chief of staff, Drew Hammill, told PolitiFact June 10. "The Speaker of the House doesn’t have the power to do this. No request was made for the National Guard before Jan. 6."

"No congressional official, or body, has the authority to activate the National Guard to the U.S. Capitol. Only the president," added Jane. L Campbell, president and CEO of the U.S. Capitol Historical Society. "If the president calls the National Guard to the U.S. Capitol, no congressional official has the authority to decline its service."


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