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cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 29, 2020 - 7:36am



 steeler wrote:


 sirdroseph wrote:


 
Biden’s income made a giant jump in 2017 and 2018 after he left office. Most of that was due to a large book deal and fees for speaking engagements. These are his and wife Jill’s AGI from tax returns from 1998 through 2018:

1998: $215,432 2005: $321,379 2012: $385,072
1999: $210,797 2006: $248,459 2013: $407,009
2000: $219,953 2007: $319,853 2014: $388,844
2001: $220,712 2008: $269,256 2015: $392,233
2002: $227,811 2009: $333,182 2016: $396,456
2003: $231,375 2010: $379,178 2017: $11,031,309
2004: $234,271 2011: $379,035 2018: $4,580,437

 It took our steely friend what, ten minutes? to find this information. Sure, 'income' is just one data point, but the fact it's readily available is telling.
DJT's 'accounting' is so convoluted - by design - it's impossible to determine what belongs where. Unless you're Trump, who knows where it belongs:HIS pockets.
c.


westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Sep 29, 2020 - 7:30am



 black321 wrote:


 Lazy8 wrote:
Red_Dragon wrote:

Key takeaway: damn, those are some good accountants! I wish I made enough to need them.
 
or...the guy doesnt know how to make a profit.

 
... and in the process alienated most of the street in the USA, which explains why he was looking to raise capital in Germany and Russia.  

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Sep 29, 2020 - 7:25am



 sirdroseph wrote:


 Lazy8 wrote:
Red_Dragon wrote:

Key takeaway: damn, those are some good accountants! I wish I made enough to need them.
 














And it is reported that Biden paid 3 million on his latest return which begs the question; how rich is he to where he has to pay more taxes in one year than most of us make in 50 lifetimes as a career politician.  Where did it come from?

Edit:  As long as the IRS is good with it ergo being legal, then it is none of our business or concern what any politicians tax return looks like UNLESS you are running as a Socialist.  Then yea, I want to know if you used any loopholes because you are campaigning to increase everyone's tax burden as a societal duty so you best be paying your own taxes proper.

 
Biden’s income made a giant jump in 2017 and 2018 after he left office. Most of that was due to a large book deal and fees for speaking engagements. These are his and wife Jill’s AGI from tax returns from 1998 through 2018:

1998: $215,432 2005: $321,379 2012: $385,072
1999: $210,797 2006: $248,459 2013: $407,009
2000: $219,953 2007: $319,853 2014: $388,844
2001: $220,712 2008: $269,256 2015: $392,233
2002: $227,811 2009: $333,182 2016: $396,456
2003: $231,375 2010: $379,178 2017: $11,031,309
2004: $234,271 2011: $379,035 2018: $4,580,437




black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 29, 2020 - 6:58am



 Lazy8 wrote:
Red_Dragon wrote:

Key takeaway: damn, those are some good accountants! I wish I made enough to need them.
 
or...the guy doesnt know how to make a profit.

rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 29, 2020 - 5:40am



 sirdroseph wrote:


 Lazy8 wrote:
Red_Dragon wrote:

Key takeaway: damn, those are some good accountants! I wish I made enough to need them.
 
And it is reported that Biden paid 3 million on his latest return which begs the question; how rich is he to where he has to pay more taxes in one year than most of us make in a hundred lifetimes as a career politician.  Where did it come from?

Edit:  As long as the IRS is good with it ergo being legal, then it is none of our business or concern what any politicians tax return looks like UNLESS you are running as a Socialist.  Then yea, I want to know if you used any loopholes because you are campaigning to increase everyone's tax burden as a societal duty so you best be paying your taxes.
 
The tax code is complicated, and it is easy to explain someone of significant wealth not paying taxes in a year...or two years....or five?  But there is no such thing as a Billionaire who doesn't pay taxes for 15 or 20 years.

As for the IRS, he is literally trying to run out the clock on auditors.  This isn't anything new....he's been doing it for decades.  He's done the math, and it's cheaper to pay attorneys to fight with the IRS...argue and refine and battle and clarify a return for years.  After a few years, they settle.  He isn't paying "taxes" with his returns, he's paying settlements (that represent a number between what he should have paid and what he did pay ($750).  The IRS won't usually add years into an investigation mid-stream, so he is literally not at risk for audit on new returns until the old ones settle.  Rinse, repeat.

As for the settlements, if you're willing to live with the risks and unsettling feeling of having a tax return from (making it up....say) 2005 open in 2020, you have already cheated the system.  IRS auditors (and state tax auditors) have targets.  The metrics in the IRS become settlements, not tax dollars owed.  If you can get someone who paid $750 to pay $750,000, the agent will get a win in their column for their employer (the IRS). In reality, the person may have truly owed $7.5M, but the agent is still a winner for getting more money.  The only person keeping track of the lost revenue is the tax cheat....it's their winnings from playing the game.

If anyone wants to live like a Trump...here are poor man's guide:

- Pay no taxes for a year (file the return...just claim deductions for a business that take your taxable income to zero)
- Wait until the IRS audits you (say...2 years)
- Hide, evade, dance, lie, repeat for a few years ...
- File form 656, an offer in compromise

Congratulations!  You too can pay less tax than you should, and have a tax return that shows you paid no taxes!

The IRS is underfunded, understaffed, and under-qualified to fight these battles.  Saying "as long as the IRS is OK with it" is a bit like saying the "if she was abused, why didn't she leave"?  It's not that simple.

What doesn't change is that Trump is not paying his share of taxes, and he is using his companies like an ATM to create the illusion of a billionaire.  When properties increase in value (in his chosen field), the big money comes in flipping properties.  Nobody makes a lot on operating real estate... it's selling it.  He's in deep trouble from a valuation perspective.  Corporate real estate is crap, NY real estate is total crap, and the golf industry uptick from COVID won't have a large enough impact to get his golfing properties back to the values he paid for them over the past 3 decades.

He is a crook in a bind.  
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 29, 2020 - 5:06am



 Lazy8 wrote:
Red_Dragon wrote:

Key takeaway: damn, those are some good accountants! I wish I made enough to need them.
 














And it is reported that Biden paid 3 million on his latest return which begs the question; how rich is he to where he has to pay more taxes in one year than most of us make in 50 lifetimes as a career politician.  Where did it come from?

Edit:  As long as the IRS is good with it ergo being legal, then it is none of our business or concern what any politicians tax return looks like UNLESS you are running as a Socialist.  Then yea, I want to know if you used any loopholes because you are campaigning to increase everyone's tax burden as a societal duty so you best be paying your own taxes proper.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 10:16pm



 Lazy8 wrote:
Red_Dragon wrote:

Key takeaway: damn, those are some good accountants! I wish I made enough to need them.
 

The real key takeaway: Trump is drowning in debt.


He made great money from "The Apprentice" and related ventures but he poured that profit into major money-losing ventures like golf resorts. He is personally liable for about $421 million in loans—and that's not the only 8-figure charge facing Trump. He has to pay off the mortgage on Trump Tower ($100 million) and will likely have to pay money back to the IRS (another $100 million).

Obviously this raises the question as to where he's going to get the money to pay back what he owes. That was not clear to the Times' writers.
"The Apprentice" golden goose is dead. He's apparently sold off stock holdings. I don't recall reading about the option of selling off real estate. 


From the NYT article summarizing the main piece: 




He will soon face several major bills that could put further pressure on his finances.

He appears to have paid off none of the principal of the Trump Tower mortgage, and the full $100 million comes due in 2022. And if he loses his dispute with the I.R.S. over the 2010 refund, he could owe the government more than $100 million (including interest on the original amount).

He is personally on the hook for some of these bills.

In the 1990s, Mr. Trump nearly ruined himself by personally guaranteeing hundreds of millions of dollars in loans, and he has since said that he regretted doing so. But he has taken the same step again, his tax records show. He appears to be responsible for loans totaling $421 million, most of which is coming due within four years.


Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 9:34pm

Red_Dragon wrote:

Key takeaway: damn, those are some good accountants! I wish I made enough to need them.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 9:08pm

 Trumpelstiltskin wrote:
Squirrel

KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 9:00pm



 kcar wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:
If Trump is a secret agent of Putin, why is Hunter Biden the one getting cash from Russia?
 

Because you're a really crappy shill with a tenuous grasp of reality. 
 
So Hunter Biden's graft scheme is... my fault? 

Strange logic.

Will Hunter Biden's corrupt deal with a Russian cause Joe to withdraw from the race, and you get to vote for Kamala instead?

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 8:21pm

Elite taxidermy...
"Because my hair — I don't know about you, but it has to be perfect. Perfect."
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 8:21pm



 KarmaKarma wrote:
If Trump is a secret agent of Putin, why is Hunter Biden the one getting cash from Russia?
 

Because you're a really crappy shill with a tenuous grasp of reality. 
KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 7:37pm

If Trump is a secret agent of Putin, why is Hunter Biden the one getting cash from Russia?
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 7:19pm



 R_P wrote:
 steeler wrote:
Kurtster promising 4 months ago  to respond to my points (reproduced in 2 preceding posts) about the existence of the Deep State.


 
Profits made / Profits kept

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 6:59pm



 KarmaKarma wrote:



 
Conflate much?  You forgot to include the Russian prostitutes that peed on him.

 

Hush, my little Klown Kar...




R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 6:57pm

 steeler wrote:
Kurtster promising 4 months ago  to respond to my points (reproduced in 2 preceding posts) about the existence of the Deep State.


kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 6:53pm



 steeler wrote:


 steeler wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

The establishment Deep State runaway freight train would be the one.  It has been slowed down, soon to be derailed.

Of course I know that you believe that there is no such thing ...
 

My recollection is that you were talking about a systemic upheaval beyond the uprooting of the Deep State. The post of yours unearthed by Red Dragon had you contemplating whether  Bernie or Trump might be a better choice for blowing up the system.  The changes Bernie  proposed (and continues to propose) are more reflective of a sea change. I recall you talking of that kind of catalyst. He would be slaying different dragons than Trump.

That said, you say now you were talking only about derailing the Deep State. I presume from your response that this is a work in progress, requiring 4 more years of Trump, and that we as a nation will not see or accrue the benefit until the extinction of the Deep State is completed?

The reason why I challenge this notion of a Deep State is that, for those who believe,  it seems to be an ever-expanding, shape-shifting creature, like an amoeba. Let’s see: Trump has rid us of or exposed  â€” or is about to expose — Deep State members Comey,  Brennan, Clapper, McCabe, Mueller, the members of the Mueller team, Judge Amy Berman Jackson, Judge Emmet Sullivan, FBI  lovers Strzok and Page,  Adam Schiff, the ousted Inspector General for the Intelligence Community,  former Ukraine Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, the Vindman brothers, Susan Rice, Joe Biden, President Obama, and countless others. When will we ever be rid of them? How can we ever be sure we have got rid of all of them? They seemingly multiply like pods.

And these are just the ones exposed or potentially exposed by the Trump administration. Who knows how many existed before this batch. I believe you have stated numerous times before that the Deep State has been with us long before Trump. Yet the ones being exposed now all seem to share one commonality among Trump and Deep State believers -  they have opposed or angered Trump and were and are engaged in a coup to end his presidency before he could expose their Deep State roots. So what were these and the other Deep Staters doing before  Trump became a candidate for President? 

Yes, it sounds to me like a conspiracy theory, one that benefits Trump to promote. Bogeymen everywhere. Only Trump stands between us and these political ghouls. 





 

First of 2 of  my exchanges with Kurtster  on Deep State months ago. 
 

How did I miss these posts? Thank you very much for asking the right questions. 


"Yes, it sounds to me like a conspiracy theory, one that benefits Trump to promote. Bogeymen everywhere. Only Trump stands between us and these political ghouls."


I think Kurt would like to tie all this back to the gunman on the grassy knoll. Pray that his head doesn't explode if John Durham's investigation doesn't deliver any beef at all. 
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 6:51pm

kurtster wrote:

I have not forgotten. It is not a question that I take lightly. Nor is it easy to answer. I already have some thoughts. Just need to organize them.
steeler wrote
Take your time. No need to hurry.


Kurtster promising 4 months ago  to respond to my points (reproduced in 2 preceding posts) about the existence of the Deep State.

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 6:41pm



 steeler wrote:


 kurtster wrote:
I didn't forget you. Took awhile to formulate a response.

A) Your recollection is correct. The statement "unearthed" was made 4 years ago almost to the day. I tried to get a link to the chain, but it will not work as it usually does. I reread the whole thing for a refresher. It was also made before any conventions and any candidates had locked up a nomination. Of course my thinking and certainly understandings of things have changed since then. As have others as well. Reading the chain showed how much that is so. There was much civility and actual thoughts being exchanged and the change in views and the ways they were expressed are light years away from that now.

B) As it turns out getting the DS exposed and punished is the biggest and most important thing left that can be achieved by Trump at this point in time. If Biden gets elected, we get a brand new AG and all the investigations under way at the DOJ will come to a screeching halt and everyone will walk away unscathed and probably even those fired rehired with back pay after being given their old jobs back. But then again, if you do not believe that a DS exists in the first place, what is the point and why does it even matter. You will just call it a phony distraction which is what you obviously believe based upon everything you have said here over the past 4 years.

C) That requires eternal vigilance as the framers / founders warned. If Clinton had won, none of this would have been exposed. Trump would just be another failed wanna be left on the heap. They would have succeeded and locked in their absolute power from that point on. It would be over and done with and impossible to recover from the systemic damage caused by "getting away with it" once again.

Bottom line, either you believe that there has been an ongoing coup attempt on Trump or you don't. A coup does require a conspiracy of many to attempt let alone succeed. That seems to be the dividing line. If you believe that there has been a coup against Trump, the he gets the benefit of the doubt. Conversely, if you don't and still believe in things like Russian collusion by Trump (not saying you do, but I don't know unless you tell me), then no holds are barred and whatever means available to remove him are fair game considering the nature of his unproven crime against the country.
 
I appreciate the response.

Here is the overriding problem I have with your position: You seem to have boiled this down to evidence of “a coup against Trump” proves the existence of this Deep State that you also have said has been with us and operating sub rosa and nefariously for many years before Trump began his presidential campaign in 2015. 

  As I said in my preceding post, what was this Deep State doing during all those years? Who were some of the members before this current cast of characters? What were the goals of this shadowy group? How did it recruit or indoctrinate new members? I recall you once  pointing to the military industrial complex cited by Eisenhower as being evidence of the existence of the Deep State. How was the proverbial baton passed to succeeding generations of this Deep State? 

Will the answers to these kind of questions always remain unsolved mysteries?

Right now, all the allegations against the Deep State are that it has conspired to stage a coup against Trump. The shared commonality of all the persons alleged to be members is that Trump has viewed them as enemies  â€” in most cases, largely because they have not shown themselves to be sufficiently loyal to Trump. Some of those so branded have had long and distinguished careers in service to our country and yet they somehow were exposed as being near traitors when Trump became President. Were they akin to terrorists in sleeper cells? Or did they succumb to the dark side late in their careers?

Sorry, it just does not make any sense to me, for the reasons stated.  I will save my views on the “proof” of “a coup” for later.





 

Second of 2 exchanges with Kurtster on Deep State 4 months ago.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Sep 28, 2020 - 6:39pm



 steeler wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

The establishment Deep State runaway freight train would be the one.  It has been slowed down, soon to be derailed.

Of course I know that you believe that there is no such thing ...
 

My recollection is that you were talking about a systemic upheaval beyond the uprooting of the Deep State. The post of yours unearthed by Red Dragon had you contemplating whether  Bernie or Trump might be a better choice for blowing up the system.  The changes Bernie  proposed (and continues to propose) are more reflective of a sea change. I recall you talking of that kind of catalyst. He would be slaying different dragons than Trump.

That said, you say now you were talking only about derailing the Deep State. I presume from your response that this is a work in progress, requiring 4 more years of Trump, and that we as a nation will not see or accrue the benefit until the extinction of the Deep State is completed?

The reason why I challenge this notion of a Deep State is that, for those who believe,  it seems to be an ever-expanding, shape-shifting creature, like an amoeba. Let’s see: Trump has rid us of or exposed  â€” or is about to expose — Deep State members Comey,  Brennan, Clapper, McCabe, Mueller, the members of the Mueller team, Judge Amy Berman Jackson, Judge Emmet Sullivan, FBI  lovers Strzok and Page,  Adam Schiff, the ousted Inspector General for the Intelligence Community,  former Ukraine Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, the Vindman brothers, Susan Rice, Joe Biden, President Obama, and countless others. When will we ever be rid of them? How can we ever be sure we have got rid of all of them? They seemingly multiply like pods.

And these are just the ones exposed or potentially exposed by the Trump administration. Who knows how many existed before this batch. I believe you have stated numerous times before that the Deep State has been with us long before Trump. Yet the ones being exposed now all seem to share one commonality among Trump and Deep State believers -  they have opposed or angered Trump and were and are engaged in a coup to end his presidency before he could expose their Deep State roots. So what were these and the other Deep Staters doing before  Trump became a candidate for President? 

Yes, it sounds to me like a conspiracy theory, one that benefits Trump to promote. Bogeymen everywhere. Only Trump stands between us and these political ghouls. 





 

First of 2 of  my exchanges with Kurtster  on Deep State months ago. 
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