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Turn it On, Salvador - It's The SS Carroway   

Posted by winter - Jun 27, 2014 - 6:08pm
So I'm just going to cop to it up front: I lurk. I used to post here, kind of a lot, and lately not so much.

I'm still interested enough to poke my head in and see what's funny, what's sad, and what's being re-argued for the nine billionth time. I drop a little surrealism in my favorite thread, if I can find it. But for most of the many of you I've become friends with, I'm by and large content to keep up on Facebook. And given that the community here has rolled on just fine in my entirely unremarkable absence, that seems to have worked out well.

But I've been thinking about something that's been a topic of conversation on and off ever since FB became the new MySpace and RPeeps started fleeing here for there. Steeler touched on it in a recent journal, and I thought about it as I did my lurking routine, and I had a thought. (It's okay - I took a nap after. These things happen to men of a certain age. One adjusts.) 

What does FB really offer that the Forum doesn't?

Is it really just as simple as being able to limit your interactions to those you'd rather interact with? Certainly that's part of it.

There are certain people I'd rather not have around, and if I can simple up my e-life with a little e-voidance, so be it. Yes, that makes the FB experience less of a community and more of a social circle: you only end up hearing from the people you like. If you want to meet someone new on FB, they'd better be a friend of a friend or no go, Mercutio.

On the other hand, from my introverted perspective, that's kind of a non-starter as arguments go: I'm not likely to seek out strangers to befriend, and any that seek me out aren't likely to find me welcoming. But that's neither you nor the person next to you so much as my "man in the mirror". For most I suspect there's some fun to be had from adding new voices to the choir, despite my desire to "neither recruited nor a recruiter be". And why not? We are social animals.

But I think that's not the biggest draw. The biggest draw is that Facebook has no memory.

I don't mean that literally, of course. What we post stays posted, like a string of sturdy wood poles on wire back to the horizon. But if you want to go looking for something Aunt Mavis posted last week about how the Kennedys assassinated themselves, you have to actually put in the effort to look for it. Odds are that even if it makes the ineffable algorithmic cut for FB's "top stories", it's not going to hover in your feed for more than a couple of hours. She grinds her axe, and those who are interested say their piece, and everyone moves on to the next thing. 

It's like a cocktail party. You walk in, greet the hosts, hang up your coats, and walk smack into a heated discussion about abortion. Not your cup of tea, so you make chit-chat about last night's episode of "That Show Everyone Watches". Or a book you just read, or what happened at work today, or even why people were fools to believe the banks needed to be deregulated. The party goes on. Everyone gets a little of what they want.

But here we can see debates about guns, or whether Obama/Bush/Clinton...Hammurabi is good or evil, or how we can straighten out the economy, or who wrote history when we were watching stuff happen, and it's harder to walk away. Even if you don't participate in the conversation, it's still there in your feed: Aunt Mavis is still grinding away days later, there's that bore at the party who won't move off her favorite topic no matter who or how many steer the talk elsewise, and there you have it. It's proved to be quite the caterpillar in the buttermilk (19:10).

Granted that no one has to look in those threads if they'd rather not. But they are still there. Even when they fade for a bit, someone brings them back. Thousands on thousands of threads, as damn near unkillable as an army of Terminators. They'll always be back, because someone will resurrect them either for shits and giggles or to actually re-animate a battle fought over the same stale ground with the same weapons that didn't win the last time but have now been re-branded for optimal efficacy.

It's a cocktail party gone mad. The echoes of Todd's tirade about the Fed and Dani's diatribe damning the 9/11 Commission hang in the air until everyone has to plug their ears and shout to be heard. Even if we try to walk away someone keeps talking: they have the answers, they lived the good old days with Percival, Perseus, Ike the Well-Liked, and Bilbo Baggins, they just found this new truth that ties it all together so any fool can see, they get what you're doing and can show you on the tablets which logical commandment you just broke and how many virgin sheep's throats need slit to make amends. And there's no host here to cut them off. So just one more round, barkeep, and then we're all homeward bound and halfway to bed. Scout's honor!

I sound harsh. And maybe I'm being a bit harsh, because having played in this sandbox a few years myself I feel a bit unhappy that it's less than I'd like it to be. I miss this place (hence the lurking). And I wish I could look past all the pointless, pointless bickering that seems to exist more for its own sake than to bring forth some rough clarity, "its hour come round at last". But I have an inceasingly low tolerance for all that, and too much of it brings out the worst in me. Life is too short to be so angry, I'm told.

So how do we make the ground safer for play? We all know the guy who hammered the boards into a box and poured the sand has a merry-go-round to run, and Ol' Noodly bless him for it. So there's no looking to him to answer for the rules of play. (I'd call that a metaphor for life under gods, but that's a song for a better singer.)

Maybe we need fewer threads: General Conversation, Politics, Books, etc. Say ten or so, maybe thirteen if you feel the need of a superstitious thrill. That way whatever pet axe needs grinding doesn't get honed to an atom-splitting edge while the steely rasp wears its way through everyone's ears.

Maybe we need a consensus that what falls off the RAFT stays off the RAFT: never the same river, right? No more strange aeons for what may eternal lie. (Although there is something often non-Euclidean about the angles I've seen here. )

Even the most contentious journals - I remember arriving here when some had replies in the triple-digit range - had a hard time breaking the Franklin rule. They were "boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past". 

Maybe we need both. Or neither. I'm better with questions than answers (not that anyone looked to me for the latter, thankfully). I just think that this persistence, this inability to achieve escape velocity from the ever-deeper gravity wells of certain topics, is the key.

On Facebook, it's harder to remember who was an ass.
49 comments on this journal entry. Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
miamizsun

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Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)


Posted: Jun 30, 2014 - 3:26pm

calling

spiritus mundi
FourFortyEight

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Location: The Dirty South


Posted: Jun 30, 2014 - 9:26am

FWIW, it's nice to read something from you again. {#Cheers}
kurtster

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Location: drifting


Posted: Jun 30, 2014 - 9:21am

Indeed.  There must be some effort to welcome newbies.  I try but I fall short.

How about a Welcome Wagon thread ?  The purpose would be for new arrivals to say hi and get a welcome and as a place for direction and guidance.

Make it a sticky and place it somewhere in the core of the Forum Guidelines as is the done for the LRC ?   
Beaker

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Posted: Jun 30, 2014 - 8:40am

Just noticed a bunch of new comments here ... I think we all have valid points and great observations.  

I do find it a bit distressing to read that Scott was once told there was no need to make any effort to welcome newcomers.  Wrong-o folks (whoever you were that said that to Scott).  How quickly you've forgotten what the near-universal newbie forum experience is like.  It truly pays to be welcoming and go that extra bit.  If you can make the effort to say g'morn to each other every day, you can make the effort to wave hi to a newbie, give them any needed pointers, and invite them to ask any questions they wish.

Every business, friends list, volunteer org and forum needs a continual influx of newcomers.  Do your part.

 

EDIT Of course, I'll also admit to being the guy who rolled up the welcome banner (a la Blazing Saddles) within minutes (hours?) of the arrival of one specific newbie.  I think most here concur, in that case, that was quite okay to do.  
kurtster

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Location: drifting


Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 4:46pm

I didn't take the theme of this as an attack on the poly threads, but it was mentioned so I commented on it.  I did go and read the link about the waning of online forums.  It seems that they mostly sprang up based on an immediate need and progressed on from that initial spark, then declined but in what appears based on the article, naturally due to a host of reasons.  But the common theme was that FB seemed to suck people away the most, just as it seems to be the case here.  So based on that, I might conclude that it would be FB itself that draws people away more than the behaviour of those who are here.  I can only guess as this is really the only Internet place that I have participated.  Granted I have gone to some technical sites for specific information on things, but once I got what I needed, left.

Here it seems that this forum is more based upon wants and desires than needs which leads it into many directions and would seem to provide for its durability and so far, longevity and a real community.  We can discuss nearly anything here, away from friends, family and employers.  That is a bond in itself.  And once again the trust.

Lastly, on the thought of digging up old threads, my thoughts are known, its not for me to say.  Its up to others to comment or not.
n4ku

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Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 3:35pm

When I joined in early 2003, there was only Comments. It took a while before I felt like I was noticed and welcomed. I almost didn't stick around. But I did. I figured I was going to have to prove myself worthy of admission.

That's the way every dial up BBS I ever joined was like.  The online world is as it has always been. Kind of like church.
winter
see clearly, act boldly, love fiercely, live richly
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Location: in exile, as always


Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 3:31pm

I've seen similar things, Scott. Sometimes we are too protective of our little clubhouse: someone has to impress us, it seems, to really be welcomed in. I don't remember it being that way when I got here.

And Alex - I am on FB all the damn time, it seems to me. I see your posts. :)
ScottFromWyoming
I eat pints
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Location: Powell


Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 3:25pm

Well the Comments thread used to be more front-and-center and so got a lot of random detritus. The AU was harder to pick out so when someone came into some other thread, we could say "come hang out at the AU so we can just talk" and I think we did that almost daily. But, anyway, nobody does that anymore. Several years ago someone came here, poked around for a few days, then left. A few people were talking about them being interesting but they didn't stick around. I went back thru their posts and then said, well, nobody actually welcomed them here, said anything other than a curt reply to a newcomer's posts. I got a pretty harsh blowback along the lines of "it's not our place to welcome anyone, they already have as much right as any of us to be here" with a little "Scott's playing forum cop again." So, message delivered. God bless haresfur and 2cats, glmace et al for sticking with the place despite our group insistence that we're not going to invite anyone new to join our reindeer games. 
 
Sorry for that rantyness, it just came out so hey.  
winter
see clearly, act boldly, love fiercely, live richly
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Location: in exile, as always


Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 2:57pm

An article from a couple of years ago that seems on point here.

Some of the replies here sound like I'm saying "ban the political threads". Far from it, although FWIW I'd think one could find a better quality of discussion among the similarly-interested than here. I suggested perhaps they be consolidated along with all the rest into a few threads, or maybe the less popular ones allowed to stay dead when they fall off the RAFT. Let the marketplace of ideas speak, in a sense: allocate the resources where the people want them. If the RAFT fills with political threads, so be it. If all the chatty-silly-fun ones rise like cream to be skimmed, so be it. As it is anyone with a pet peeve can dig up some thread from five years back and resurrect it - and the drama that went with it. The rest of everyone gets to watch the whole thing play out again and wonder what the point is.

And I have to wonder if that's what the community actually wants. I don't have numbers, but I suspect there's more people here for the light-hearted fellowship than the deep dive into the rough-and-tumble world of ideas.

Let me try this another way.

Several have mentioned the fun of meeting new people here. A good point - we were all newbies here once upon a time, And I've enjoyed making friends here as much as anyone. But if you want to meet new people who are not necessarily like-minded, you don't start off by saying, "Hi, I'm Emily, I'm an atheist fiscal conservative who wishes she didn't need government approval to make my AK-47 full auto when I use copies of Todd Akin's campaign posters for target practice. I don't tolerate fools, I enjoy working on and driving my vintage Harley, and if I could go back in time I'd firebomb the Council of Nicaea. Let's be pals!"

You put your best foot forward. You keep it general and non-controversial and polite until you get to know someone. Unless, of course, you are welcoming a new member of the Atheist Fiscal Conservative Full-Auto Shooters and Harley Appreciators Against the Council of Nicaea and Todd Akin Club. (Dibs on founding the AFCFASHACNTAC, BTW, FYI, YMV.) And then once you get to know them and build some trust you can start showing your other, less readily accessible facets.

I don't think this community has its best foot forward. Newcomers to the RAFT wander into an array of specialized threads, some controversial, some not. Hard to find a safe place to start. So why not make the default the general conversation threads (like Comments, say), and then if someone wants to look for a more specific topic they can dig deeper.

 
n4ku

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Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 1:25pm

Everyone seems to be in such a rush to tell winter that he is wrong.

Kind of makes me think he is right to back away.
kurtster

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Location: drifting


Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 10:14am

Late to the party, as usual, but its my lot in life ... I wondered where everyone went.

A great thought provoking journal and a worthy and civil conversation to boot.  And I wondered where you went just in the past couple of days I will add.  Missed you and your thoughts I rediscovered while poking around looking up things.

So much has been said that I agree with, except the call for a moderator.   For the most part, we all arrived here for the same reasons.  This is an adult party and as adults, we seem to find ways to work through and past many obstacles.  Like Lazy, I don't wish to deal with the inane.  I keep thinking about actually going to FB, but ... I dunno, I just don't think I have the patience to start another garden.  Going for the garden analogy, it would seem that FB is a garden of annuals that requires constant seasonal replanting while here is the garden of perennials that lasts and with nurture will grow and evolve (with patience) into a synergistic splendor or bounty of lasting beauty.  But I haven't done FB, so this is pure speculation on my part.

We could prolly get into a debate as to who is more introverted, but who wants to win that debate ?

I do find your last line in your journal most interesting.  Sure people can be and are asses, but many change and evolve.  To go through life with the attitude that once a ... , always a ... , seems to be cheating yourself of the same kind of growth and opportunity to mature and evolve.  This is not an indictment, just an observation.

People get moody.  And over a period of time, one can recognize that and take it as a passing thing and wait for that pissy or woe is me or whatever mood it may be to pass and let the person return to their normal state.  I've often said that just because someone shows up for work everyday and has perfect attendance, doesn't mean that they should.  People get sick and while they can show up, not break things and go home, they are not doing a proper service to those around them or those that they may be serving.  But its more than getting sick and respecting your peers, there are times when the mind breaks down and requires mental flossing.  I think that here represents the charitable side where attendance is not the primary requirement, its the quality over the long term that more matters.

The part about the RAFT, like others, I don't get how just the mere appearance or reappearance of a thread can upset someone so much as to want to leave.  There are plenty of channels on the guide, but does the mere appearance of a program make one wish to find another provider of content ?  To get political, does the mere appearance of Fox News or MSNBC on the guide make you want to toss out the whole thing ?  We have free will as adults, just don't click and if you do and know you will be offended, then unclick and move on.  You can bemoan about what it was that offended you, but likely only those who share your views will care or notice.  And that's ok, too.  Its when one gets fixated and cannot purge it and lets it spill over into places (read threads) that are unrelated then there is a problem.  But whose problem is it ?  Those who are sharing recipes and are offended when someone blasts in saying that they hate Bush because he hates broccoli or the person who brings it in ?  I don't like cheese, but does or should recipes or conversations regarding cheese offend me ?  I could be a real douche bag and start a cheese haters thread, but why and moreover why bother.  For free will, common sense and respect for others to work requires restraint and personal responsibility.  This is one of the many things that I have learned here, just from being here for the time that I have been here.

I'm here and still here for most of the reasons laid out by Lazy.  Like Scott, I would be more than willing to share my home and table and break bread with nearly everyone I find here and have with some.  I find that kind of trust refreshing and revitalizing as mentioned by mutepoint in this crazy day and age when there is so much to be wary of.  I would like to share examples of that kind of trust I have found here, but to do so would be breaking those trusts.  And I don't want to leave out steeler who shares my similar interests in defending the poly threads and their right to exist. ov, your a treasure.  And A who popped in while I was typing {#Wave}

I dunno ... while many have left, some are returning.  The bar keeps being lifted rather than being lowered.  This is a mature community in respect to the life span of anything similar, if there is anything similar.  That some are returning is hopeful for the long term here.  And there is some occasional fresh blood as well.  I feel that those who have stayed and persevered are kindred and worthy of respect for that.  Like anything, this place has evolved.  The only constant in life is change.  Other than Bill keeping the lights on for us, we control our own destiny here.  I am still hopeful that the qualities that make this place still worthwhile will remain, even as interests, needs and current events and curiosities change.

My 2 ¢ 

peace ... y'all.

Just to add one more thought.  Instead of a cocktail party, I see this place more like this place ... The Madonna Inn ...
Alexandra
Living with passion
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Location: PNW


Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 8:35am

First of all - great journal, winter. I've certainly noticed your absence. Hell, I don't even see you that much on FB either. You've been missed! So thanks for popping up with one of your stellar missives.
 
Secondly, you know what I miss? There don't seem to be a whole lot of personal, chit-chatty conversations anymore—aside from the usual suspects in the morning. Perhaps people don't have the time they once did (in other jobs, other things going on in their lives) to "come out and play" but most days I find the RAFT going very slowly or not at all - like a big ghost town.
 
And, since I've never been a political debater here, when I see that those (or just any "newsy" threads) are often the only threads continually bumping and no one just talking about life or their kids or their travels (remember the journals where someone gave us a nice beautiful snapshot of their vacations/travels etc? I miss those!)——well, that's what makes me wander away. I'm seeking just the "social visit" aspects, and talk of music (which goes without saying).
 
That's what I miss about the old days. The "regular" chit chat about life, and the funny stuff.
winter
see clearly, act boldly, love fiercely, live richly
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Location: in exile, as always


Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 8:16am

That's a fair point. I don't see them, don't know them, not being here much, but that doesn't take away from their value as community members and general good people.
ScottFromWyoming
I eat pints
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Location: Powell


Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 8:14am

It's worth pointing out that there are "new" people here who are as valuable to the RP community (read: me) as some of those who've left. 
winter
see clearly, act boldly, love fiercely, live richly
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Location: in exile, as always


Posted: Jun 29, 2014 - 7:05am

I'm not questioning the value of meeting new people or new ideas, and I certainly don't bemoan the deeper friendships to be found here. But let's do the math: we can all name a dozen or so Peeps who've left/wandered off over the years. Our lists don't wholly overlap, and most of those folks are still online enough to be on FB. I have to think that's a warning sign, and it's not just "here be trolls".

It seems like these things snowball. A few leave, and those who mostly prefer them leave, and then those who prefer those who mostly prefer the first batch of leavers leave, and so on ad that bite 'em. Me being me, I wonder what can be done to stop the snowball and put the flakes back in the drifts.

Maybe it is an inevitable life cycle: a forum starts up, it becomes more active and popular, then over time it fades to insignificance. I don't know. 
ScottFromWyoming
I eat pints
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Location: Powell


Posted: Jun 28, 2014 - 11:56pm

So anyway, this summer, as with every summer since Charlie was born, we will meet up with people we know only thru RP. Sometimes they stay at our house, sometimes we stay at theirs... we've had a couple of dozen or so different RP people stay with us way out here in the middle of nowhere. I do have some e-friends who I've met on Facebook and have agreed that we should grab a beer if we're ever in their town... but it won't ever progress to a point where a bunch of us will get together because while we all might have e-friends, they're different e-friends so we don't have even that in common. Here, we have the music of course, plus our posting histories that makes us real to other people... real enough that we don't have any qualms about opening up our homes.
 
But anyway, I work the facebook but haven't met many new friends there. Which is the whole point, I think.

Lazy, Montana Folk Festival's in 2 weeks, are you going over this year?
 
ScottFromWyoming
I eat pints
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Location: Powell


Posted: Jun 28, 2014 - 11:43pm

I do see people and discussions metamorphosing over time. Some for the better, but not all. Rarely do I think we're doing a total rehash, and even if we are, I get to read some well-put-together posts from corners I would never read if the discussion were not right under my nose.
 
The glacial pace of some conversations is really something special here. Locked threads on other forums (or admins telling someone not to dredge up an old thread) is alien to me... but my go-to example of the "long" conversation happened in a song's comments. A brief discussion took several years.
 
 
winter
see clearly, act boldly, love fiercely, live richly
winter Avatar

Location: in exile, as always


Posted: Jun 28, 2014 - 9:43pm

n4ku - I've fought the idea of moderators over the years, but I've come around to thinking as you do. It's a shame we can't count on basic decent behavior and civility as a default, but there it is: it's been shown time and again, and to the great detriment of the community. However, it's not likely that BillG is going to go along with such a plan. I've said it before that as important as the Forum is to those who use it, I think that for BillG it's an afterthought at best. And it should be - he's a DJ running a radio station. He's not trying to be the next Reddit.

Lazy8 - I like a deeper conversation, too. I'm an introvert - give me a quiet chat with a few dear friends over any thousand crowded bars full of noise and nonsense. But (if I may be excused a changed metaphor) this is more like the bar than the dinner party. It's music and chitchat and spilled drinks and attention spans dancing between a dozen different things. And I suspect the intense and persistent convos that go on here have worn out their welcomes a few times over with those more interested in the social than the philosophical. (That's not a judgment, by the way. To each her own. Plenty of people would rather keep to a lighter line in their conversations here: there's a reason we don't talk politics or religion at the dinner table.) Sure, talk about something deeper and more interesting, but maybe not the same thing the same way every day from now until the stars fade.

I see the traditionally controversial threads and no one seems to be changing their minds or even their arguments. People don't, mostly. Why should here be different? Sure, the 9/11 Truth thread fell off the radar ages ago when the person who made it his pet bulletin board moved on to somewhere more crusade-friendly. But it has its replacements: different battle, same war. And I've no stomach to keep slogging through that same sad swamp.

Certainly the trolls are an issue and have been. Leaving aside that one person's troll is another's charmingly blunt provocateur, there are always those whose personalities just don't click with our own. And there's the flip side of that, obviously. There's some here I could do altogether without, and there's some here who'd be content to see me fall into a well with some gunpowder and a match. 

Maybe this is the dinner table. Maybe this is the place where we don't dig deep and go for the gusto. Maybe this is fun and fellowship without the heavy thinking. Maybe we need moderators to play grownup when we don't. 

Or I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.  

I still lurk around, and I still like most of the posters here. But it seems to me like the whole thing continues to circle the drain because nothing changes but the date. And I wish that weren't so. So I think about what might make things better.
Lazy8
human
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Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana


Posted: Jun 28, 2014 - 8:48pm

You obviously weren't getting what you wanted out of this place, but what was that, exactly?

You're one of the more interesting people I've, er, met online so it pains me that the discussions that I engage in here seem to be driving you off.

I found something I had been missing here. Some background: I have been exploring the social possibilities of the internet since 1989. Back before there was a web. Back when to be connected to the internet meant working (at a computer) for a large corporation or a major university, or possibly the military. Before anonymity, when you were interacting with people from all over the planet, most of whom had PhDs or had at least earned the trust of people in charge of large budgets. Most of us who were, um, there remember it as a golden age, an age of (mostly) civility, of intelligent discussions with intelligent people. I remember arguing with (and having my mind changed by) people like economist David Director Friedman. Back then the things that interested me were brewing beer, riding motorcycles, and reading science fiction—things that very few people around me cared about. Making contact with people with similar interests had a profound effect on me and a lot of others. Our obscure tastes/interests/obsessions no longer isolated us, they united us.

I'm a member of the first online motorcycle club, the Denizens of Doom. We still communicate via a listserve on a server humming away in somebody's basement. The less-curmudgeonly of us have a Facebook group. The original meeting place (the usenet group rec.motorcycles) still exists but very few of us frequent it anymore. With the widespread accessibility of the internet the signal to noise ratio went right to hell. We don't have to deal with spam or trolls anymore, but we also never meet anybody new. And eventually enough of us will die off that the conversation will stop.

I miss that feeling of camaraderie; the open, intelligent, respectful conversation. I found some of it here.

For me (alongside the music that attracted me in the first place) this is a place for the mind to play. I never did the chatter in the Alternate Universe that so many others miss so much, I like engaging on real issues. I had to be dragged kicking and screaming to Facebook but now that I'm there I, um...like it. I like keeping up with my nieces and nephews and kids and high school classmates. But that's not the same.

If I try to discuss, say, the ethics of theism on Facebook I will shock and horrify many of my friends, not all of whom would have the patience or tolerance for a discussion of religion that  did not affirm their own beliefs. I really don't need the drama in my life of having to explain myself to all of them. I can find an interest group on FB where everybody already agrees with me, but what will I learn there? This place has at least the potential to interact with people I find interesting but don't necessarily agree with, at least not yet.

Which means we won't all agree. And when new people wander in old discussions get revisited. The price of fresh blood.

Is that really what's bothering you, or is it something about the nature of the debate? When I talk to ex-RPsians what they mention first about why they left is trolls. Just one, if persistent and unpleasant enough, can sour the taste of the whole community. But what I find most repellent is inanity.

I'd much rather disagree with someone clever than agree with someone who can't think for himself. Go ahead and insult me, just don't be tedious about it. When I see the RAFT full of posts on interesting topics but the last poster is someone prone to poorly-thought-out cliches I'm unlikely to pop in for a look. Bad conversation can drive out good.

Maybe all online communities have a life cycle that includes a decline into irrelevance. Maybe we've hit that. I'd love to be able to revive the photo captioning thread, read more surrealist humor, name some more bands. Maybe get introduced to some more interesting people. Which seems like the best thing this place has done for me.
n4ku

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Posted: Jun 28, 2014 - 10:22am

What this place has always needed is a few moderators.

BAM.
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