The pro-Russian side (and at this point I see no alternative to lumping you in this category) goes on endlessly about how provoked Russia was by countries on its borders joining NATO, and how this makes them all scareded and insecure. They never mention what those countries were responding to: an endless stream of Russian threats and demands, and its many invasions of neighboring countries (Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan), two utterly savage wars against secessionists in Chechnya, to say nothing of its history of domination of those countries during the 20th century.
Russia could have responded to those countries concerns by offering them a better deal, to join as partners (rather than vassals) into its own regional security alliance, the CSTO. Hell, Russia could have joined NATO! They responded instead the way empires do: by threatening force.
But now we have a war. One side is fighting on its own territory (territory Russia agreed to respect the sovereignty of and protect in 1992), the other is invading and annexing land of a neighbor, blasting civilian targets and infrastructure. What do we do about this?
Nothing? Let them crush their neighbor? After all, they were scarded that Latvia might invade them!
Help Russia de-nazify Ukraine by helping them depose its elected (Jewish) president? Send them weapons so they can reduce the rest of the country to rubble?
Kick Poland and Estonia and Norway and Latvia and Lithuania out of NATO? Never mind that this is not a decision that the US can make, but them joining NATO was all our fault, right?
Withdraw our support from Ukraine, forcing them to negotiate the loss of the eastern part of their country and the eventual conquest of the rest?
Location: Blinding You With Library Science! Gender:
Nov 26, 2022 - 12:16pm
Yeah, when will we learn that an empire's wars of conquest need to be stopped at the beginning, that no amount of appeasement will ever be enough? That facing that empire only gets harder over time, that the stakes keep rising?
Europe (and the world) had an opportunity in 2008, another in 2014., to stop this. Instead we listened to voices like this that remind us that conflict between nations is unpleasant and wars are terrible,...but they never mention that if they aren't stopped early then the conflict gets worse and the next war will be even more terrible.
What he (and you) are counseling is to not fight, to leave the field to the aggressor. To surrender our way to peace. Appeasement. Where does that end? What kind of world does that leave us with?
Not a world without war, but a world where war is a successful strategy. A world ruled by most ruthless.
And the people who get trampled along the way? Fuck them. They aren't us.
If the Russians take Ukraine (which may not be your preferred outcome from all this, but it definitely is the preferred outcome for the talking heads you keep promoting) then would Russia invading, say, Poland, or the Baltic countries, or Finland bother you? That seems t be on the ultra-nationalist agenda in Russia. When should we start opposing the expansion of this cruel, despotic empire?
Or should we just keep letting it take what it wants? If that isn't what you're advocating tells us what it is you are. What's your plan here?