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Joe Biden - maryte - Dec 5, 2022 - 7:30am
 
TV shows you watch - KurtfromLaQuinta - Dec 5, 2022 - 5:18am
 
Feminism: Catch the (Third?) Wave! - sirdroseph - Dec 5, 2022 - 4:12am
 
Future of Human Race (in 500 years) - Coaxial - Dec 4, 2022 - 8:49pm
 
About the map - haresfur - Dec 4, 2022 - 2:32pm
 
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Post to this Topic
phineas

phineas Avatar



Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 6:17pm

 kurtster wrote:

Really ?  Neither of these two that you mention as well as most other big box outfits do not have unionized workers.



Well said!

/s
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 4:50pm

 kurtster wrote:
This bailout is also just as bad as the student loan bailout, which is currently being fought out in the courts.

Making it a complete bailout was an idiotic idea. How would you NOT get pushback from the loan companies? They should've presented forgiveness of student loan interest and that might've gotten through without such a fuss.


Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 4:49pm

 kurtster wrote:
The Central States Pension Fund based here in Cleveburg (Jackie Presser ?), or it used to be, was used as a slush fund for all kinds of activities including funding organized crime.  The Teamsters hierarchy over the years has done more for themselves than the rank and file.

Skimming, I thought this was another Trump topic with the Trump Organization convicted of skirting taxes by providing for themselves in illegal ways. Guess that teaches me to not read closely. Carry on.

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 4:46pm

 kurtster wrote:
This bailout will only encourage more bad behaviour as others have mentioned.

Appeasement!
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 4:37pm

 islander wrote:

Edit to add:  We should pay for this by taxing Amazon/Walmart/ other major retailers who have made trillions of dollars in no small part by utilizing these workers.
 
Really ?  Neither of these two that you mention as well as most other big box outfits do not have unionized workers.

Former Teamster here.  Remember Jimmy Hoffa ?  The Central States Pension Fund based here in Cleveburg (Jackie Presser ?), or it used to be, was used as a slush fund for all kinds of activities including funding organized crime.  The Teamsters hierarchy over the years has done more for themselves than the rank and file.

This bailout will only encourage more bad behaviour as others have mentioned.

This bailout is also just as bad as the student loan bailout, which is currently being fought out in the courts.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 1:21pm

 islander wrote:

There's the bingo square right there ^^^^^^

too bad there is little apatite for government regulation/oversight.   But again, we are all for privatizing profits when things are good and socializing losses when it comes to PPP loans and other politically connected bailouts (again, disclosure: I got a small PPP loan and it was eventually forgiven - it covered about 30% of the salaries of my employees when there was no work being done and they weren't let go). 

With people living much longer, we really need to look at the way we structure work and retirement funding. There are some serious crisis items looming for the current and future generations.   We have the resource to fix this, but we have to be smarter and stop worshipping billionaires. If someone has accumulated a billion dollars, then you've benefitted greatly from our system and you owe something back to it. If you've accumulated 10 billion, you've probably exploited our system and or people and you really owe something back. 



I can see it two ways.
One,  you increase the funding requirements, or two, you improve the disclosure requirements.
The accounting is there, you can track it easily each year, though this is beyond the understanding of most employees. I would argue for better disclosure to employees so they understand the risks to their pensions...but under no situation should the public be held accountable for their failure.  It's the same political fumble as the student loan forgiveness. 

Outside of private/gov employment and public unions, pension or defined benefit plans virtually don't exist.  

As for the rest, I certainly support an extremely progressive estate state, once you get above a certain threshold of $x million. Put the $ back in the pot. 
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 1:05pm

 black321 wrote:

To Islander - the PBGC is not intended to be an insurer, but a safety net to provide some protection when plans fail (companies go bankrupt).
To Lazy - I'm not 100% certain, but I don't think it was the union that did the contributing/investing, but a multiemployer plan, where various cos with union workers contribute to the same plan...until the plan fails. 

Larger issue is it's was bad policy to allow these private pension schemes to be so drastically underfunded, and then have the public fund it when it fails. 


There's the bingo square right there ^^^^^^

too bad there is little apatite for government regulation/oversight.   But again, we are all for privatizing profits when things are good and socializing losses when it comes to PPP loans and other politically connected bailouts (again, disclosure: I got a small PPP loan and it was eventually forgiven - it covered about 30% of the salaries of my employees when there was no work being done and they weren't let go). 

With people living much longer, we really need to look at the way we structure work and retirement funding. There are some serious crisis items looming for the current and future generations.   We have the resource to fix this, but we have to be smarter and stop worshipping billionaires. If someone has accumulated a billion dollars, then you've benefitted greatly from our system and you owe something back to it. If you've accumulated 10 billion, you've probably exploited our system and or people and you really owe something back. 

islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 12:53pm

 Lazy8 wrote:

So...a union invested poorly and wound up with an underfunded pension fund, and that's all the fault of companies that (in general) had nothing whatsoever to do with the problem:

1. Don't have unionized workforces
2. Don't have pensions—they use defined contribution (401K) retirement plans rather than defined benefit (pension) plans

...and the part that bothers you about the bailout is that the beneficiaries are no longer political allies?




Well, there's a whole problem in how our retirement systems are set up and where the responsibility/accountability (or lack thereof) is, but that's not what my comment was about.  A lot of people who are relying on a pension are likely to be disappointed and left with little recourse or resource. So yeah, that is one of the places where I think it is appropriate for government to step up and help their citizens.  Should also come with reform of the pension systems and retirement systems as well, but I can't tell how far into fantasy land we want to go so I'll stop at 'try to minimize human suffering'.

While the companies I mentioned don't have unionized work forces, they do rely on a lot of unionized labor - longshoremen who handle goods at import, teamsters (mentioned directly in the article) for distribution/warehousing/etc. Walmart also famously relies on various strategies to indirectly get government subsidies as well (underpaying people so they get public assistance).  These companies and their owners (yes, I'm an owner too, I hold both WMTt and AMZ) make a lot of profit and are happy to collect subsidies and anything else they can get in their favor. So when things go bad I have no problem asking them to kick in. Again, unlikely. The .gov will just tag this to the ongoing tab and we'll all wind up paying for it it drips and drabs. 

The political affiliation isn't the part that bothers me. It's the raw hypocrisy of people who say "no socialism" and  "I got by with no help from anyone else" who then are the first one with their hand out with the slightest crisis.  These people never care about an issue until it affects them personally. And yes, this tends to be one side politically much more than the other.  I would hesitate to call the democrats my ally, but if that's the choice I have to make to support the little guy over the giant corporations (who have already had their share of bailouts), then sure put me down for less human suffering.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 10:23am

To Islander - the PBGC is not intended to be an insurer, but a safety net to provide some protection when plans fail (companies go bankrupt).
To Lazy - I'm not 100% certain, but I don't think it was the union that did the contributing/investing, but a multiemployer plan, where various cos with union workers contribute to the same plan...until the plan fails. 

Larger issue is it's was bad policy to allow these private pension schemes to be so drastically underfunded, and then have the public fund it when it fails. 

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 9:36am

 islander wrote:
I think this is the right thing to do. But it is especially ironic, as most of the beneficiaries of these policies are against 'socialism' and any government 'handouts' for people who are not them. Pretty typical "I don't care until it affects me personally" politics.

Edit to add:  We should pay for this by taxing Amazon/Walmart/ other major retailers who have made trillions of dollars in no small part by utilizing these workers.

So...a union invested poorly and wound up with an underfunded pension fund, and that's all the fault of companies that (in general) had nothing whatsoever to do with the problem:

1. Don't have unionized workforces
2. Don't have pensions—they use defined contribution (401K) retirement plans rather than defined benefit (pension) plans

...and the part that bothers you about the bailout is that the beneficiaries are no longer political allies?


islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 9:05am

 black321 wrote:


Disagree. 
Pensions are backstopped by PBGC, which is funded with "insurance" payments by those paying into pensions, but it's not 100%. 
The rules that allow these pensions to become so massively underfunded were allowed because cos lobbied for them, and now taxpayers pick up the tab...in the so called inflation reduction act.
and not like the last admin was any better...which also subsidized underfunded plans, and allowed the can to be kicked further down the road. 

p.s., are you implying most union workers are conservative/republicans?




If the PBGC were sufficient this wouldn't be a 36 billion dollar issue.  

Not all union workers, but I'd bet a substantial portion that are teamsters are.  

https://www.npr.org/2016/03/07... 
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 8:06am

 islander wrote:


I think this is the right thing to do. But it is especially ironic, as most of the beneficiaries of these policies are against 'socialism' and any government 'handouts' for people who are not them. Pretty typical "I don't care until it affects me personally" politics.

Edit to add:  We should pay for this by taxing Amazon/Walmart/ other major retailers who have made trillions of dollars in no small part by utilizing these workers.


Disagree. 
Pensions are backstopped by PBGC, which is funded with "insurance" payments by those paying into pensions, but it's not 100%. 
The rules that allow these pensions to become so massively underfunded were allowed because cos lobbied for them, and now taxpayers pick up the tab...in the so called inflation reduction act.
and not like the last admin was any better...which also subsidized underfunded plans, and allowed the can to be kicked further down the road. 

p.s., are you implying most union workers are conservative/republicans?


islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 7:50am

 black321 wrote:

On the one hand, regulators turn a blind eye to these schemes, until they get in trouble, and then a bailout. 
Might as well go all-in and nationalize everything

Biden to announce federal bailout for troubled union pension fund

WASHINGTON – President Joe Biden on Thursday will join labor leaders to announce a federal bailout for a pension fund largely benefiting Teamster workers and retirees.

The $36 billion for the Central States Pension Fund will prevent benefits from being cut more than in half for more than 350,000 truck drivers, warehouse workers, construction workers and others, according to the White House.

  • The bailout was made possible by the American Rescue Plan Act, the $1.9 trillion package passed last year in response to the pandemic.
  • Financially struggling multiemployer pension plans can apply to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation for assistance.
  • Before the act passed, more than 200 pension plans were on pace to become insolvent in the near term, according to the White House. Now, those plans are projected to remain solvent through at least 2051.
  • The $36 billion for the Central Pension Fund is the biggest boost from the program, and the largest ever federal financial assistance for troubled pension funds, according to the White House.

What's about to happen

Teamster workers and retirees will join Biden and Labor Secretary Marty Walsh at a White House event announcing the assistance. Biden has said he’s goal is to be “the most pro-union president” in U.S. history. He held the first public event of his presidential campaign at a Teamsters hall in Pittsburgh in 2019.

Critics, like George Mason University’s Charles Blahous, say the bailouts encourage “more of the irresponsible behavior that got pensions into trouble in the first place.”

Who is being helped?

Most states have workers or retires expected to benefit. The states with the most beneficiaries are:

  • Michigan: 40,300
  • Ohio: 39,900
  • Missouri: 27,800
  • Illinois: 25,000
  • Texas: 22,500
  • Wisconsin: 21,900
  • Indiana: 19,600
  • Minnesota: 19,300
  • Florida: 18,700
  • Tennessee: 14,200





I think this is the right thing to do. But it is especially ironic, as most of the beneficiaries of these policies are against 'socialism' and any government 'handouts' for people who are not them. Pretty typical "I don't care until it affects me personally" politics.

Edit to add:  We should pay for this by taxing Amazon/Walmart/ other major retailers who have made trillions of dollars in no small part by utilizing these workers.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 8, 2022 - 7:43am

On the one hand, regulators turn a blind eye to these schemes, until they get in trouble, and then a bailout. 
Might as well go all-in and nationalize everything

Biden to announce federal bailout for troubled union pension fund

WASHINGTON – President Joe Biden on Thursday will join labor leaders to announce a federal bailout for a pension fund largely benefiting Teamster workers and retirees.

The $36 billion for the Central States Pension Fund will prevent benefits from being cut more than in half for more than 350,000 truck drivers, warehouse workers, construction workers and others, according to the White House.

  • The bailout was made possible by the American Rescue Plan Act, the $1.9 trillion package passed last year in response to the pandemic.
  • Financially struggling multiemployer pension plans can apply to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation for assistance.
  • Before the act passed, more than 200 pension plans were on pace to become insolvent in the near term, according to the White House. Now, those plans are projected to remain solvent through at least 2051.
  • The $36 billion for the Central Pension Fund is the biggest boost from the program, and the largest ever federal financial assistance for troubled pension funds, according to the White House.

What's about to happen

Teamster workers and retirees will join Biden and Labor Secretary Marty Walsh at a White House event announcing the assistance. Biden has said he’s goal is to be “the most pro-union president” in U.S. history. He held the first public event of his presidential campaign at a Teamsters hall in Pittsburgh in 2019.

Critics, like George Mason University’s Charles Blahous, say the bailouts encourage “more of the irresponsible behavior that got pensions into trouble in the first place.”

Who is being helped?

Most states have workers or retires expected to benefit. The states with the most beneficiaries are:

  • Michigan: 40,300
  • Ohio: 39,900
  • Missouri: 27,800
  • Illinois: 25,000
  • Texas: 22,500
  • Wisconsin: 21,900
  • Indiana: 19,600
  • Minnesota: 19,300
  • Florida: 18,700
  • Tennessee: 14,200



black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2022 - 4:07pm

Those who have are spending their cash

Bentley CEO: ‘Never seen spending patterns’ like this before with luxury consumer

Pras Subramanian·Senior ReporterWed, November 2, 2022 at 10:24 AM

For British luxury automaker Bentley (VOW.DE), 2022 may leave a strong 2021 in the dust.

Through the first nine months of 2022, Bentley reported record operating profit of €575 million ($577,129,608), more than double the amount from a year ago. The previous full-year record high for operating profit was €389 million ($383,651,250.00). Revenue through the first nine months came in at €2.490 billion ($2,455,762,500.00), a jump of 28% from a year ago.

For Bentley CEO Adrian Hallmark, the results are astonishing because the automaker only increased sales of cars by 3%, yet profitability soared.

“The exciting part for me is that we've doubled the profit year to date, with only a 3% increase in , and that's all about quality of margin,” Hallmark says to Yahoo Finance. “It's all about these higher price cars with more personalization, order bank driven, not stock build driven; and we've got the right formula, and we're going to be ruthless about maintaining that pool.”

"I've been in this industry and in this sector for nearly 28 years. I've never seen spending patterns like it and not just in Bentley,”


miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2022 - 10:09am

 rexi wrote:

jeez, just saw this



been a subscriber to capitalisn't for a while
because luigi...
rexi

rexi Avatar

Location: Zurich, Switzerland


Posted: Oct 31, 2022 - 6:34am

A different Story of Inflation


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Oct 27, 2022 - 4:38pm

Putin Is Onto Us (NYT, Friedman)
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 26, 2022 - 12:40am

 westslope wrote:

The Russian economy has suffered.  Wealth has suffered.   The Russian economy will likely suffer for years, possibly decades to come.    

As an aside, please do note that not all Russians wanted this war.  Think of the subcultures in the USA and other rich western countries that have opposed war or the nuclear arms race and one finds the same subcultures in Russia.

The important point from the perspective of the welfare of Europeans and North Americans is that Russia can economically last for a very long time.   That has to be part of the strategic calculation on the part of US-lead NATO going forward.     Any illusions of a quick, inexpensive military victory in Ukraine should be dismissed or assigned an extremely low probability of materializing.

This conflict could easily escalate with conventional weapons alone into highly destructive and risky directions.        



Yeah, well Putin seems to long for the days of the cold war. Last one took around 40 years. That's his choice until someone figures out how to get rid of him, provided someone as bad doesn't take his place. Putin could fix this easily but he won't.

Obama ignored Russian aggression in Crimea and that just lead to aggression in the rest of Ukraine. The alternatives appear to be either Russia takes over Ukraine and probably the rest of Eastern Europe or support Ukrainian self-determination, even if it means digging in for the long haul. Yeah, it is dangerous but so are the other options.
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Oct 25, 2022 - 8:39pm

The Russian economy has suffered.  Wealth has suffered.   The Russian economy will likely suffer for years, possibly decades to come.    

As an aside, please do note that not all Russians wanted this war.  Think of the subcultures in the USA and other rich western countries that have opposed war or the nuclear arms race and one finds the same subcultures in Russia.

The important point from the perspective of the welfare of Europeans and North Americans is that Russia can economically last for a very long time.   That has to be part of the strategic calculation on the part of US-lead NATO going forward.     Any illusions of a quick, inexpensive military victory in Ukraine should be dismissed or assigned an extremely low probability of materializing.

This conflict could easily escalate with conventional weapons alone into highly destructive and risky directions.        


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