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Looting & vandalism isn't protest - KarmaKarma - Jul 5, 2020 - 7:02am
 
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Crazy conspiracy theories - Red_Dragon - Jun 30, 2020 - 5:28am
 
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China - KarmaKarma - Jun 29, 2020 - 7:10pm
 
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KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jul 5, 2020 - 7:02am


KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jul 4, 2020 - 9:48pm

If Antifa and its enablers / useful idiots can keep this mayhem up until November, Oregon might just turn into a red state.


KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jul 4, 2020 - 9:41pm


R_P

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Posted: Jul 4, 2020 - 9:25pm

KarmaKarma, looking down from lofty clouds, wrote:
Let's face it: no matter who is in the Oval office, it is impossible for most members of this site to give up their partisan hackery and seek out any possible common ground.

A reasonable person might think that intelligent people, of any political stripe, would be capable of looking at the policies and actions of a White House occupant, and rather than remain silent, they would acknowledge when they agree with a particular direction, plan or announcement.

Alas, reasonable persons seem few.

I can imagine several reasons for this, with blame falling in many places.

Because it's so much easier for many to mock, ridicule, harangue, blame, stereotype, and personalize the conflict of ideas. Yes, izzinit?

So resume your day - and do watch out for the pools of cognitive dissonance.

KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jul 4, 2020 - 9:06pm



 Furshlugginer_D wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:
Ask yourself. Who does this benefit?

https://www.zerohedge.com/poli...


 

Not gonna drive traffic to the link. This one's better. But I wanted to point out to others that it's becoming a standard practice amongst folks without substance in their argument to ask you to do the leg work by using leading questions. You see it a LOT with the QAnon folks ("Well, if he was using the word 'pizza' a lot, what else could it mean?")

The implication, in a roundabout way, is that the poster sits in a higher position of knowledge and is giving you the means for you to become smarter.

But really, something that's clear doesn't need questions and roundabout Socratic method. It needs stating, clearly, and withstanding scrutiny. A question-like statement like the one above forces you to provide an answer and therefore is immune. "I'm just asking the question!"

Trust me!   The link is double plus good!  It's officially endorsed by #NewspeakEdition11 !

Ask yourself: Who does this benefit?


 


Isabeau

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Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Jul 4, 2020 - 8:36pm



 Steely_D wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:
Ask yourself. Who does this benefit?

https://www.zerohedge.com/poli...


 

Not gonna drive traffic to the link. This one's better. But I wanted to point out to others that it's becoming a standard practice amongst folks without substance in their argument to ask you to do the leg work by using leading questions. You see it a LOT with the QAnon folks ("Well, if he was using the word 'pizza' a lot, what else could it mean?")

The implication, in a roundabout way, is that the poster sits in a higher position of knowledge and is giving you the means for you to become smarter.

But really, something that's clear doesn't need questions and roundabout Socratic method. It needs stating, clearly, and withstanding scrutiny. A question-like statement like the one above forces you to provide an answer and therefore is immune. "I'm just asking the question!"
 
"let me direct the conversation. Never answer YOUR questions, but keep imploring you to answer MINE."
otherwise known as



"Oh Look! A Squirrel!"


Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 4, 2020 - 8:34pm



 KarmaKarma wrote:
Ask yourself. Who does this benefit?

https://www.zerohedge.com/poli...


 

Not gonna drive traffic to the link. This one's better. But I wanted to point out to others that it's becoming a standard practice amongst folks without substance in their argument to ask you to do the leg work by using leading questions. You see it a LOT with the QAnon folks ("Well, if he was using the word 'pizza' a lot, what else could it mean?")

The implication, in a roundabout way, is that the poster sits in a higher position of knowledge and is giving you the means for you to become smarter.

But really, something that's clear doesn't need questions and roundabout Socratic method. It needs stating, clearly, and withstanding scrutiny. A question-like statement like the one above forces you to provide an answer and therefore is immune. "I'm just asking the question!"
KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jul 4, 2020 - 8:10pm

Ask yourself. Who does this benefit?

https://www.zerohedge.com/poli...


kcar

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Posted: Jul 4, 2020 - 2:44pm



 KarmaKarma wrote:
Welp, after watching hours and hours of protests, have to say that my views have changed - they've now hardened.  Peaceful, noisy protests are perfectly fine, especially those occurring during daylight hours.

However ... better mechanisms need to be put in place to quickly extract from the crowds instigators of violence & those who engage in vandalism.

And apparently some education of protest organizers is in order too.  They win zero friends by walking through neighborhoods late at night or after midnight, banging on their drums and bellowing through their PA horns.  

And Seattle ...?  Wow, you are one screwed up city.  Your politicians first tie the hands of the cops, then when you finally realize you screwed up, you release them and they are still restrained.  The only thing accomplished so far is multiple attempts by said protesters to see how far they can push the cops through disobedience and in your face insults.  That's not what protesting is about.  And 9 or 10 more days of this to come?  When they are up for reelection in 2021, it would be a shame if the mayor and any sympathizers were thrown out of office.
 

"The only thing accomplished so far is multiple attempts by said protesters to see how far they can push the cops through disobedience and in your face insults. That's not what protesting is about."



You mean like the armed protesters who stormed the Michigan State Capitol building?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EW...






Is that in-your-face enough for you?  

I agree with your call for "quickly extract(ing) from the crowds instigators of violence & those who engage in vandalism."
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jul 4, 2020 - 9:41am

The revolution will not be televised.
— G. Scott-Heron

As a callow lad, in my scholastic days, I read Dick Gregory’s The Shadow That Scares Me, Eldridge Cleaver’s Soul on Ice, and The Autobiography of Malcolm X, among other provocative books. Those books made an impression on an impressionable mind. I guess it fair to say I filed some of those impressions away; they stayed with me even if I did not act upon them. Suffice it to say, there were lessons to be learned.

Protests bring attention to issues. That is what they are designed to do. The hard work of effectuating the changes sought and highlighted begins afterward, if at all. And it often falls to others to nurture the spark lest it become extinguished. Social change, as we have seen, is incremental. Certain protests, like those triggered by the murder of George Floyd, are literally combustible. The stopper on that bottle of incremental change pops and the bottle explodes. This emotional outpouring cannot be easily contained nor, it can be argued, should it. There is good reason for these emotions.

This protest is more enduring than most other protests and more volatile (see also the long arc of Vietnam War protests and also the inner-city riots following the assassination of MLK). Those of us on the left side of the political spectrum know that many protests and “movements” become co-opted by a multitude of ideological agendas. Their messages can and do become diluted. The other thing about these large, emotional protests is that they can and often do become co-opted by those using them as cover to loot or engage in other forms of illicit behavior, driven by reasons that have little or nothing to do with the message that brought the great, great majority out into the streets, crying for justice and standing vigil. No question some of those out there for good reason and with good intentions let their emotions get the better of them at times. It happens.

The central point is that the original message, the catalyst not only for the protests but for the needed social change, becomes not only diluted but sometimes disparaged because of these roiling and overlapping waters. Unfortunate as this is, it is not reason to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water.

Eyes on the prize. Justice beckons. Always.

Here is hoping there may be some kernels of sound thinking amidst these meanderings.

Have a happy and safe July 4th holiday weekend!
R_P

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Posted: Jul 2, 2020 - 11:06am

 KarmaKarma wrote:
Welp, after watching hours and hours of protests, have to say that my views have changed - they've now hardened. (...)

Shocking! They were sooo reasonable before.
black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 2, 2020 - 8:47am



 cc_rider wrote:


 KarmaKarma wrote:
Welp, after watching hours and hours of protests, have to say that my views have changed - they've now hardened.  Peaceful, noisy protests are perfectly fine, especially those occurring during daylight hours.

However ... better mechanisms need to be put in place to quickly extract from the crowds instigators of violence & those who engage in vandalism.

And apparently some education of protest organizers is in order too.  They win zero friends by walking through neighborhoods late at night or after midnight, banging on their drums and bellowing through their PA horns.  

And Seattle ...?  Wow, you are one screwed up city.  Your politicians first tie the hands of the cops, then when you finally realize you screwed up, you release them and they are still restrained.  The only thing accomplished so far is multiple attempts by said protesters to see how far they can push the cops through disobedience and in your face insults.  That's not what protesting is about.  And 9 or 10 more days of this to come?  When they are up for reelection in 2021, it would be a shame if the mayor and any sympathizers were thrown out of office.
 
One of the reasons the civil rights protests were (reasonably) successful was their discipline. Under Dr. King, protesters went through training. Intensive training, with volunteers (usually white) shouting, spitting and more. There's footage of that training, and it's really hard to watch - young white people yelling the most horrible things at black folks. But that was exactly what they faced in the streets.
White protesters got the same training - in some ways they were more at risk, as 'N***** Lovers'. See 'Freedom Riders'.

Dr. King demanded non-violence - against the wishes of many voices in the movement. His leadership galvanized people like John Lewis, Ralph Abernathy, and many others to keep 'the troops' in line, well-trained and committed to non-violence. Dr. King knew any hint of aggression would be met with overwhelming force. See 'Connor, Bull'. 

We don't have a Dr. King, or a Mahatma Ghandi, to provide structure and discipline to these protests. With predictable results, sadly.
c.


 
it's unfortunate that many of the current day protesters believe King's way did not work. 
No, we didn't resolve racism, but we made progress.
Once you resort to violence you lose the otherwise sympathetic moderate,
and you give ammunition to those who oppose the cause: the racist, bigot and status quo

cc_rider

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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 2, 2020 - 8:26am



 KarmaKarma wrote:
Welp, after watching hours and hours of protests, have to say that my views have changed - they've now hardened.  Peaceful, noisy protests are perfectly fine, especially those occurring during daylight hours.

However ... better mechanisms need to be put in place to quickly extract from the crowds instigators of violence & those who engage in vandalism.

And apparently some education of protest organizers is in order too.  They win zero friends by walking through neighborhoods late at night or after midnight, banging on their drums and bellowing through their PA horns.  

And Seattle ...?  Wow, you are one screwed up city.  Your politicians first tie the hands of the cops, then when you finally realize you screwed up, you release them and they are still restrained.  The only thing accomplished so far is multiple attempts by said protesters to see how far they can push the cops through disobedience and in your face insults.  That's not what protesting is about.  And 9 or 10 more days of this to come?  When they are up for reelection in 2021, it would be a shame if the mayor and any sympathizers were thrown out of office.
 
One of the reasons the civil rights protests were (reasonably) successful was their discipline. Under Dr. King, protesters went through training. Intensive training, with volunteers (usually white) shouting, spitting and more. There's footage of that training, and it's really hard to watch - young white people yelling the most horrible things at black folks. But that was exactly what they faced in the streets.
White protesters got the same training - in some ways they were more at risk, as 'N***** Lovers'. See 'Freedom Riders'.

Dr. King demanded non-violence - against the wishes of many voices in the movement. His leadership galvanized people like John Lewis, Ralph Abernathy, and many others to keep 'the troops' in line, well-trained and committed to non-violence. Dr. King knew any hint of aggression would be met with overwhelming force. See 'Connor, Bull'. 

We don't have a Dr. King, or a Mahatma Ghandi, to provide structure and discipline to these protests. With predictable results, sadly.
c.


KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: Jul 2, 2020 - 7:59am

Welp, after watching hours and hours of protests, have to say that my views have changed - they've now hardened.  Peaceful, noisy protests are perfectly fine, especially those occurring during daylight hours.

However ... better mechanisms need to be put in place to quickly extract from the crowds instigators of violence & those who engage in vandalism.

And apparently some education of protest organizers is in order too.  They win zero friends by walking through neighborhoods late at night or after midnight, banging on their drums and bellowing through their PA horns.  

And Seattle ...?  Wow, you are one screwed up city.  Your politicians first tie the hands of the cops, then when you finally realize you screwed up, you release them and they are still restrained.  The only thing accomplished so far is multiple attempts by said protesters to see how far they can push the cops through disobedience and in your face insults.  That's not what protesting is about.  And 9 or 10 more days of this to come?  When they are up for reelection in 2021, it would be a shame if the mayor and any sympathizers were thrown out of office.
R_P

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Posted: Jul 1, 2020 - 1:57pm

A North Carolina City Bans Protests, Protecting Confederate Monument
black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 1, 2020 - 6:09am



 Isabeau wrote:


 black321 wrote:
As the violence seems to wax and wane, still trying to reconcile the attractiveness and dissonance of BLM.

Kneeling in the Church of Social Justice

America certainly has work to do on race, but ritual and symbolic acts aren't the way forward.


Those of us watching incongruously and needlessly acrid media posts and the yanking down of statues cannot help thinking the real motivator of the TWA posture is a simple joy in indignation and destruction, along with the comforts of group warmth. The white TWA adherent cherishes displaying virtue. The black TWA adherent has fallen for the Siren call of the noble victim complex, affording one the status of a Cassandra, a survivor, even the granter of absolution, as we see in some of the protest videos.


https://reason.com/2020/06/29/kneeling-in-the-church-of-social-justice/

 

So, you mean Trump's rallies and White Supremacist protests, with men prominently displaying guns are really pointless symbolism?

and

Let me count the ways ol Donnie and his Dingleberries have claimed 'they' are the victims since January 2017.
 
missing the point.
read the article, if interests you.

R_P

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Posted: Jun 30, 2020 - 10:40pm

Moar hysteria...

The Deep State Antifa Fire Department!
KarmaKarma

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Posted: Jun 30, 2020 - 10:04pm

This video was posted 2 weeks ago!  Imagine adding in the recent examples.

Also: great music!
Isabeau

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Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Jun 30, 2020 - 6:09pm



 black321 wrote:
As the violence seems to wax and wane, still trying to reconcile the attractiveness and dissonance of BLM.

Kneeling in the Church of Social Justice

America certainly has work to do on race, but ritual and symbolic acts aren't the way forward.


Those of us watching incongruously and needlessly acrid media posts and the yanking down of statues cannot help thinking the real motivator of the TWA posture is a simple joy in indignation and destruction, along with the comforts of group warmth. The white TWA adherent cherishes displaying virtue. The black TWA adherent has fallen for the Siren call of the noble victim complex, affording one the status of a Cassandra, a survivor, even the granter of absolution, as we see in some of the protest videos.


https://reason.com/2020/06/29/kneeling-in-the-church-of-social-justice/

 

So, you mean Trump's rallies and White Supremacist protests, with men prominently displaying guns are really pointless symbolism?

and

Let me count the ways ol Donnie and his Dingleberries have claimed 'they' are the victims since January 2017.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jun 30, 2020 - 6:06pm



 black321 wrote:
As the violence seems to wax and wane, still trying to reconcile the attractiveness and dissonance of BLM.

Kneeling in the Church of Social Justice

America certainly has work to do on race, but ritual and symbolic acts aren't the way forward.


Those of us watching incongruously and needlessly acrid media posts and the yanking down of statues cannot help thinking the real motivator of the TWA posture is a simple joy in indignation and destruction, along with the comforts of group warmth. The white TWA adherent cherishes displaying virtue. The black TWA adherent has fallen for the Siren call of the noble victim complex, affording one the status of a Cassandra, a survivor, even the granter of absolution, as we see in some of the protest videos.


https://reason.com/2020/06/29/kneeling-in-the-church-of-social-justice/

 
I tire of the words “woke” and “virtue signaling.”

Protest brings attention to an issue or issues. The hard work of effectuating change comes later — if ever. Those are not revelations.

Scanned the article. Will read it closely later. Thanks.

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