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Best guitarists - Proclivities - Sep 21, 2019 - 7:25am
 
Things You Thought Today - Ohmsen - Sep 21, 2019 - 7:24am
 
Phillip K. DIck - Ohmsen - Sep 21, 2019 - 5:38am
 
What Do You Want From RP? - Ohmsen - Sep 21, 2019 - 4:26am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - Ohmsen - Sep 21, 2019 - 4:09am
 
Questions. - buzz - Sep 20, 2019 - 10:21pm
 
Guns - kurtster - Sep 20, 2019 - 8:28pm
 
Pink Floyd Set? - kurtster - Sep 20, 2019 - 7:54pm
 
Name My Band - haresfur - Sep 20, 2019 - 7:48pm
 
Good Night and Good Luck - SeriousLee - Sep 20, 2019 - 5:22pm
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - SeriousLee - Sep 20, 2019 - 5:21pm
 
What are you doing RIGHT NOW? - SeriousLee - Sep 20, 2019 - 5:19pm
 
Apple's iOS 13 now supports telling Siri to listen to Rad... - BillG - Sep 20, 2019 - 3:54pm
 
Baseball, anyone? - SeriousLee - Sep 20, 2019 - 3:17pm
 
What Did You See Today? - KurtfromLaQuinta - Sep 20, 2019 - 2:02pm
 
volcano! - R_P - Sep 20, 2019 - 2:02pm
 
Marijuana: Baked News. - westslope - Sep 20, 2019 - 12:38pm
 
Trump - westslope - Sep 20, 2019 - 11:00am
 
Solar / Wind / Geothermal / Efficiency Energy - aflanigan - Sep 20, 2019 - 10:59am
 
Holy Frack! - R_P - Sep 20, 2019 - 10:33am
 
Climate Change - R_P - Sep 20, 2019 - 9:45am
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - SeriousLee - Sep 20, 2019 - 9:34am
 
Play the Blues - oldviolin - Sep 20, 2019 - 9:24am
 
HALF A WORLD - oldviolin - Sep 20, 2019 - 9:17am
 
Things I wish for ..... - oldviolin - Sep 20, 2019 - 8:17am
 
YouTube: Music-Videos - oldviolin - Sep 20, 2019 - 6:35am
 
Live Music - R_P - Sep 19, 2019 - 7:56pm
 
The Global War on Terror - westslope - Sep 19, 2019 - 6:59pm
 
The House I Want (Today) - Isabeau - Sep 19, 2019 - 2:43pm
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - nickferrante10 - Sep 19, 2019 - 2:33pm
 
September 19th is International Talk Like A Pirate Day - oldviolin - Sep 19, 2019 - 1:15pm
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - oldviolin - Sep 19, 2019 - 12:54pm
 
Health Care - black321 - Sep 19, 2019 - 12:48pm
 
Bob Dylan - R_P - Sep 19, 2019 - 12:02pm
 
Environment - R_P - Sep 19, 2019 - 11:39am
 
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests - miamizsun - Sep 19, 2019 - 11:32am
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Sep 19, 2019 - 10:33am
 
E.O. Wilson: The Creation - oldviolin - Sep 19, 2019 - 8:59am
 
Canada - sirdroseph - Sep 19, 2019 - 8:50am
 
No RP on Amazon Echo in UK - Jim_Messenger - Sep 19, 2019 - 4:29am
 
RP App for Android - jarro - Sep 19, 2019 - 4:26am
 
Player in Firefox not stable - jarro - Sep 19, 2019 - 4:15am
 
Chair & Posture - haresfur - Sep 18, 2019 - 6:18pm
 
Room 3a - haresfur - Sep 18, 2019 - 6:15pm
 
Food Texture Issues - miamizsun - Sep 18, 2019 - 4:03pm
 
Cooking for Friends.... - oldviolin - Sep 18, 2019 - 12:03pm
 
Celebrity Face Recognition - oldviolin - Sep 18, 2019 - 11:39am
 
Nuclear power - saviour or scourge? - westslope - Sep 18, 2019 - 11:00am
 
Trump Lies - R_P - Sep 18, 2019 - 10:47am
 
Poetry Forum - oldviolin - Sep 18, 2019 - 10:04am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Sep 18, 2019 - 8:22am
 
Mixtape Culture Club - miamizsun - Sep 18, 2019 - 6:59am
 
Brexit - Coaxial - Sep 18, 2019 - 5:55am
 
Counting with Pictures - yuel - Sep 18, 2019 - 12:53am
 
The Obituary Page - Red_Dragon - Sep 17, 2019 - 2:58pm
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Sep 17, 2019 - 12:29pm
 
What makes you smile? - PoundPuppy - Sep 17, 2019 - 11:46am
 
Drones - R_P - Sep 17, 2019 - 11:23am
 
Democratic Party - westslope - Sep 17, 2019 - 11:02am
 
The Electoral College - westslope - Sep 17, 2019 - 10:50am
 
What the world needs now is .... - Proclivities - Sep 17, 2019 - 8:50am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Sep 16, 2019 - 6:40pm
 
Australia has Disappeared - haresfur - Sep 16, 2019 - 3:28pm
 
What song is this... Yoshida Brothers ? - nf_able - Sep 16, 2019 - 1:32pm
 
2020 Elections - miamizsun - Sep 16, 2019 - 11:25am
 
Favorite Quotes - oldviolin - Sep 16, 2019 - 11:03am
 
Thoughts in the Middle of the Night - oldviolin - Sep 16, 2019 - 10:33am
 
Bear! - Proclivities - Sep 16, 2019 - 6:35am
 
9/11 - westslope - Sep 15, 2019 - 10:11pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - Isabeau - Sep 15, 2019 - 8:25pm
 
THE CARS featuring TODD RUNDGREN - kurtster - Sep 15, 2019 - 8:03pm
 
Immigration - R_P - Sep 15, 2019 - 4:00pm
 
Interesting or Weird Cover Versions - SeriousLee - Sep 15, 2019 - 10:52am
 
What are you listening to now? - SeriousLee - Sep 15, 2019 - 10:33am
 
FLAC stream - amokbunny - Sep 15, 2019 - 4:21am
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » About RP » When form overtakes function and destroys a site.
Post to this Topic
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2019 - 8:45am



 ptooey wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 BillG wrote:
Most of the missing features mentioned in this thread — user search, display of all posts by a user, ability to link to specific posts, and a few others — should now be operational. You might have to reload this tab to have them show up.

If you're still using the forum on the legacy site for any of those reasons, I encourage you to give the new site a try.
 

:cheers: ;-) 
 
 
I confess I never did learn HOW to link to an old post, but others did it often. Maybe someone can give me a tutorial.
 
Easier now than it used to be. If you mouse-hover over the 'when posted' info on the upper left of the post in question, the url can be copied. Paste that into YOUR post and wa-LAH.


Edit - thusly...  https://radioparadise.com/comm...
 

Ooh! :cheers:
ptooey

ptooey Avatar

Location: right behind you. no, over there.
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2019 - 8:09am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 BillG wrote:
Most of the missing features mentioned in this thread — user search, display of all posts by a user, ability to link to specific posts, and a few others — should now be operational. You might have to reload this tab to have them show up.

If you're still using the forum on the legacy site for any of those reasons, I encourage you to give the new site a try.
 

:cheers: ;-) 
 
 
I confess I never did learn HOW to link to an old post, but others did it often. Maybe someone can give me a tutorial.
 
Easier now than it used to be. If you mouse-hover over the 'when posted' info on the upper left of the post in question, the url can be copied. Paste that into YOUR post and wa-LAH.


Edit - thusly...  https://radioparadise.com/comm...
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2019 - 7:33am



 BillG wrote:
Most of the missing features mentioned in this thread — user search, display of all posts by a user, ability to link to specific posts, and a few others — should now be operational. You might have to reload this tab to have them show up.

If you're still using the forum on the legacy site for any of those reasons, I encourage you to give the new site a try.
 

:cheers: ;-) 
 
 
I confess I never did learn HOW to link to an old post, but others did it often. Maybe someone can give me a tutorial.
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2019 - 6:48am

Most of the missing features mentioned in this thread — user search, display of all posts by a user, ability to link to specific posts, and a few others — should now be operational. You might have to reload this tab to have them show up.

If you're still using the forum on the legacy site for any of those reasons, I encourage you to give the new site a try.
KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: May 4, 2019 - 10:28pm

Currawong wrote:

The inability to link to old posts is a real problem. Finding what people said, especially you, is important.  I used to admin a huge forum where we'd get a LOT of repeat questions, and members had bookmarked relevant posts, so you'd get either a link to the answer, or a "search the thread for X and Y" and they'd be able to find it easily.

"the whole universe has moved to endless scrolling" — No, that's just not true. Most significantly, no major forum has it that I know of. Many news sites use it because it keeps people reading, which is better for web metrics, which are important for selling advertising. The longer someone is on your site, the more ads you can sell for more money. Ditto why Youtube and Facebook have autoplay on videos.  It is completely useless for a forum where interaction is rarely continuous. It only ends up inhibiting interaction, not enhancing it.

If it's feasible, you should seriously consider moving to modern forum software like XenForo. The improvement in functionality would make people very happy I reckon.

 
I strongly beg to differ, re your comments about endless scrolling. 

I'm a long-time forum reader (on several sites) and sure, the first time I ran into endless scrolling on a favorite forum, it was a wtf moment.  Then, after more use - especially intensive use as I follow a hot topic, I got used to it - and appreciated its value. 

The value of endless scrolling even shines on a forum that by its nature HAS to have moderators stepping in at all hours and constantly deleting off-topic or even, legally iffy posts.  When the mods do that, the post count obviously changes - and moving back and forth between page 33 and 34 say, on a site without endless scrolling WILL produce annoying results as you miss posts as the order/number changes. 

I've seen the light - endless scrolling is a good feature and a terrific evolution for active forums.  Having endless scrolling doesn't mean you can't easily link to important posts.  It's quite doable.

Here's a prime example of a major forum using the mature front-end vBulletin.  It's a very active forum, with tens of thousands of users, and millions of views, which transitioned to endless scrolling in the last year or so.  And a reader can still jump around by 'pages' while reading its topics.  Linking to the url of a given post remains easy.

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news-13/


BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: May 4, 2019 - 8:30pm



 Currawong wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts.

First, on the iOS app. The change to the current version was necessary in order to accommodate changes Apple made to Airplay2. The previous app version was completely incompatible with Airplay2, which is a very popular (and all-around excellent) addition to the iOS universe.

Apple's support for the FLAC format is iffy, at best. The changes we made to the way the app plays audio — necessary for Airplay2 support — create some major challenges re: FLAC. It appears that the only truly workable fix for those problems is to switch to using ALAC rather than FLAC on iOS. That requires a bunch of work on the back end that is currently in progress. For now, the best solution is to use the 'Ultra' bitrate (320k AAC — a very, very small step down in quality) and the 'precise' skip setting. That will eliminate the issues you describe.

I know that there have been a number of issues with the iOS app. Keep in mind that the incompatibility with Airplay2 is not something we anticipated or were warned about. Suddenly our existing app was severely broken for large numbers of users, and we had to fast-track the development of a completely different version. That sort of thing rarely goes smoothly, but we're doing the best we can.


The changes to the website were not made capriciously or in the name of form over function. They were made to address three issues:

1. 'Skip' functionality was not possible using the previous player format

2. The previous site could not support flexible layouts — adapting gracefully to different screen sizes.

3. The previous site was hand-coded by me. I needed to transition our website into something that was built on a standardized framework (in our case Angular) that could be handed off to a developer.

We also had a number of improvements to the site that we wanted to add — improvements that have been positively received by most listeners.

As for linking to old posts, why would you need/want to do that? Scroll down to the post in question, reply to it, and it goes to the top of the topic. We certainly wouldn't be inclined to retain pagination — when the whole online universe has moved to endless scrolling — just to retain the ability to link to a particular range of posts. On the song comments, pagination was removed several years ago.

As for the player tab crashing, that's not at all a common occurrence. No recent other complaints about that, and I haven't personally experience it for a long, long time.

We'll be adding a 'favorites export' function, which should work much better than trying to copy/paste stuff from our site.


Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed reply. 

I recall now you mentioning Airplay2. I had gone back to try and find your original reply, but couldn't. I'll have a go with 320k caching instead, since it's only for in the car. If you haven't already, please bring back the Rock Mix. I was enjoying that before it disappeared.

I'm happy to hear about the Favourites export function. The rest of the web player I like (I'm using it now) so if I get any weird behaviour, I'll see if I can't extract an error message.

The inability to link to old posts is a real problem. Finding what people said, especially you, is important.  I used to admin a huge forum where we'd get a LOT of repeat questions, and members had bookmarked relevant posts, so you'd get either a link to the answer, or a "search the thread for X and Y" and they'd be able to find it easily.

"he whole universe has moved to endless scrolling" — No, that's just not true. Most significantly, no major forum has it that I know of. Many news sites use it because it keeps people reading, which is better for web metrics, which are important for selling advertising. The longer someone is on your site, the more ads you can sell for more money. Ditto why Youtube and Facebook have autoplay on videos.  It is completely useless for a forum where interaction is rarely continuous. It only ends up inhibiting interaction, not enhancing it.

If it's feasible, you should seriously consider moving to modern forum software like XenForo. The improvement in functionality would make people very happy I reckon.
 

The current forum format works really well for my particular use case: mobile browser (usually), & an almost exclusive focus on new posts & topics. 

I agree that for other flavors of usage it's less than ideal. There are still some bits we can finish & things we can tweak. It's easy for forum-related issues to get put on the back burner, as it's used by only a small percentage of RP users (< 1%). Not an excuse, just an explanation... 

I'll look into XenForo. 
Currawong

Currawong Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: May 4, 2019 - 8:04pm

Thanks for your thoughts.

First, on the iOS app. The change to the current version was necessary in order to accommodate changes Apple made to Airplay2. The previous app version was completely incompatible with Airplay2, which is a very popular (and all-around excellent) addition to the iOS universe.

Apple's support for the FLAC format is iffy, at best. The changes we made to the way the app plays audio — necessary for Airplay2 support — create some major challenges re: FLAC. It appears that the only truly workable fix for those problems is to switch to using ALAC rather than FLAC on iOS. That requires a bunch of work on the back end that is currently in progress. For now, the best solution is to use the 'Ultra' bitrate (320k AAC — a very, very small step down in quality) and the 'precise' skip setting. That will eliminate the issues you describe.

I know that there have been a number of issues with the iOS app. Keep in mind that the incompatibility with Airplay2 is not something we anticipated or were warned about. Suddenly our existing app was severely broken for large numbers of users, and we had to fast-track the development of a completely different version. That sort of thing rarely goes smoothly, but we're doing the best we can.


The changes to the website were not made capriciously or in the name of form over function. They were made to address three issues:

1. 'Skip' functionality was not possible using the previous player format

2. The previous site could not support flexible layouts — adapting gracefully to different screen sizes.

3. The previous site was hand-coded by me. I needed to transition our website into something that was built on a standardized framework (in our case Angular) that could be handed off to a developer.

We also had a number of improvements to the site that we wanted to add — improvements that have been positively received by most listeners.

As for linking to old posts, why would you need/want to do that? Scroll down to the post in question, reply to it, and it goes to the top of the topic. We certainly wouldn't be inclined to retain pagination — when the whole online universe has moved to endless scrolling — just to retain the ability to link to a particular range of posts. On the song comments, pagination was removed several years ago.

As for the player tab crashing, that's not at all a common occurrence. No recent other complaints about that, and I haven't personally experience it for a long, long time.

We'll be adding a 'favorites export' function, which should work much better than trying to copy/paste stuff from our site.


Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed reply. 

I recall now you mentioning Airplay2. I had gone back to try and find your original reply, but couldn't. I'll have a go with 320k caching instead, since it's only for in the car. If you haven't already, please bring back the Rock Mix. I was enjoying that before it disappeared.

I'm happy to hear about the Favourites export function. The rest of the web player I like (I'm using it now) so if I get any weird behaviour, I'll see if I can't extract an error message.

The inability to link to old posts is a real problem. Finding what people said, especially you, is important.  I used to admin a huge forum where we'd get a LOT of repeat questions, and members had bookmarked relevant posts, so you'd get either a link to the answer, or a "search the thread for X and Y" and they'd be able to find it easily.

"he whole universe has moved to endless scrolling" — No, that's just not true. Most significantly, no major forum has it that I know of. Many news sites use it because it keeps people reading, which is better for web metrics, which are important for selling advertising. The longer someone is on your site, the more ads you can sell for more money. Ditto why Youtube and Facebook have autoplay on videos.  It is completely useless for a forum where interaction is rarely continuous. It only ends up inhibiting interaction, not enhancing it.

If it's feasible, you should seriously consider moving to modern forum software like XenForo. The improvement in functionality would make people very happy I reckon.
SeriousLee

SeriousLee Avatar

Location: Dans l'milieu d'deux milles livres


Posted: May 4, 2019 - 1:21pm

 Skydog wrote:

I check in once in a great while but don't listen anymore. No computer problems, it's just that I can't stand the sound of The Who, The Doors, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Talking Heads, Peter Gabriel & R.E.M anymore. I used to be able to tolerate it but it just keeps getting worse.
Oh and there's that Cloud Cult problem too, uh oh...I see up on top that The National is playing now
Bye-bye {#Cowboy}

 
You had me up to LZ.

PF? TH? Dems are fighting words!{#Beat}

Gabriel and REM, I can take or leave.

CC, well that's an acquired taste. And I've acquired it. {#Cheesygrin}

Miss you, Skydog. {#Cheers}
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2019 - 6:56pm



 kcar wrote:

 
Not sure that my observation belongs in this thread, but what the hey. The forum on the new site isn't as good or functional as the forum on the old site. It's not clear to me, for instance, why the new site's forum doesn't allow you to view other users' old posts except the very latest post. As for linking to old posts, it's helpful when you're discussing something in the forum to point RPers to past statements on a topic.
 
I also tried to find a way to search the new site for RPers by user name but I couldn't find it. So if you is trying to review another RPer's past statements and opinions on a subject, you can't.
 
If you compromise the ability to search and refer to the history of a discussion, you compromise the depth of the discussion and indirectly encourage people to talk at each other, not to each other. They will also tend to repeat themselves if they're not given feedback/pushback from other posters.
 
Perhaps the new forum has improved since I last used it, but I (and IIRC other RPers such as kurtster) use the new site to listen to new music and open the old site in a separate tab to read and post in the forum. 
 
As for the iOS app—wow, I had no idea Apple had made things so hard for you, Bill. I hope you've been able to overcome those issues. At one point I threw up my hands in despair when trying to cache music on my iPhone 6—the UI indicated the app was attempting to cache but the app never stored anything from what I could tell. Around the same time, for some reason the segues from song to song were way off so tracks were overlapping each other for around 5 seconds. Perhaps matters have improved...fingers crossed.
 
Good luck to you guys. I think the new site is pretty good. Bill, I encourage you and Rebecca and whoever else to take a strong interest in maintaining and improving the ability of RPers to communicate with each other and view each other's thoughts. If you take that capacity away, you compromise the sense of community that RP promotes and your site might eventually turn into another free resource that people should donate to, but don't.

 

Some good points. Most of them are features that weren't deliberately dropped, just kind of lost on the transition (like searching for members & seeing their post history). Those can certainly be added back. 
Skydog

Skydog Avatar



Posted: May 3, 2019 - 5:35pm

 Currawong wrote:
For some time now I have been using, and championing Radio Paradise, recommending to many people as a great means to discover new music. Unfortunately, I will be doing so no longer. 
 
I check in once in a great while but don't listen anymore. No computer problems, it's just that I can't stand the sound of The Who, The Doors, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Talking Heads, Peter Gabriel & R.E.M anymore. I used to be able to tolerate it but it just keeps getting worse.
Oh and there's that Cloud Cult problem too, uh oh...I see up on top that The National is playing now
Bye-bye {#Cowboy}
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 3, 2019 - 5:14pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 BillG wrote:


 
As for linking to old posts, why would you need/want to do that?  Scroll down to the post in question, reply to it, and it goes to the top of the topic. 
 

 
It's sometimes nice to be able to refer to an individual post as  a way to point to a conversation that took place. We tend to recycle old threads rather than start a new one every damn time an idea pops into our heads, but maybe we should get over that.

 
 
Not sure that my observation belongs in this thread, but what the hey. The forum on the new site isn't as good or functional as the forum on the old site. It's not clear to me, for instance, why the new site's forum doesn't allow you to view other users' old posts except the very latest post. As for linking to old posts, it's helpful when you're discussing something in the forum to point RPers to past statements on a topic.
 
I also tried to find a way to search the new site for RPers by user name but I couldn't find it. So if you is trying to review another RPer's past statements and opinions on a subject, you can't.
 
If you compromise the ability to search and refer to the history of a discussion, you compromise the depth of the discussion and indirectly encourage people to talk at each other, not to each other. They will also tend to repeat themselves if they're not given feedback/pushback from other posters.
 
Perhaps the new forum has improved since I last used it, but I (and IIRC other RPers such as kurtster) use the new site to listen to new music and open the old site in a separate tab to read and post in the forum. 
 
As for the iOS app—wow, I had no idea Apple had made things so hard for you, Bill. I hope you've been able to overcome those issues. At one point I threw up my hands in despair when trying to cache music on my iPhone 6—the UI indicated the app was attempting to cache but the app never stored anything from what I could tell. Around the same time, for some reason the segues from song to song were way off so tracks were overlapping each other for around 5 seconds. Perhaps matters have improved...fingers crossed.
 
Good luck to you guys. I think the new site is pretty good. Bill, I encourage you and Rebecca and whoever else to take a strong interest in maintaining and improving the ability of RPers to communicate with each other and view each other's thoughts. If you take that capacity away, you compromise the sense of community that RP promotes and your site might eventually turn into another free resource that people should donate to, but don't.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2019 - 12:08pm



 BillG wrote:


 
As for linking to old posts, why would you need/want to do that?  Scroll down to the post in question, reply to it, and it goes to the top of the topic. 
 

 
It's sometimes nice to be able to refer to an individual post as  a way to point to a conversation that took place. We tend to recycle old threads rather than start a new one every damn time an idea pops into our heads, but maybe we should get over that.
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2019 - 11:59am



 Currawong wrote:
For some time now I have been using, and championing Radio Paradise, recommending to many people as a great means to discover new music. Unfortunately, I will be doing so no longer. The changes to the site, and the mobile app have so fundamentally broken what was great that it no longer functionally useful beyond being a background radio player (which it just failed at, as the tab I was using for playback crashed).

I recently posted detailed feedback about major caching issues with the iOS app in the feedback thread, and while the person who appears to be the developer replied in kind, I was rather disheartened by Bill's reply which seems to prioritise form over function — in fact, the very function he has been promoting for what is now probably years.

As I cannot link to that post due to both the new and old sites being functionally broken, I realised what the problem was, unfortunately one that has overtaken many sites and businesses. Since Bill just announced that he has made his funding goal for the year, maybe he'll just see this as griping and ignore what I have to say, though I hope not. 

If you talk to web site designers, you'll often hear the complaint that a customer wants some or other functionality that they have seen elsewhere, even though that would make the site hard to use, hard to navigate, or break it under certain conditions.  This is essentially what has happened to Radio Paradise, with the move to fancy formatting destroying critical functionality.

The start of this was introducing endlessly scrolling thread and ratings views. By removing pagination in the forums, it is impossible to find and link to an individual post (and thus, the replies) with no indication where you are in a thread. Now the one means to get around the issues - the link to the legacy site — is gone (and, I don't doubt, the legacy site itself will be removed eventually), we are essentially stuck with this mess.  Even using Google, the links to individual posts on the legacy site no longer work.

Likewise, the list of rated tracks, because it is endlessly scrolling, you can no longer cut-and-paste the list to put into other services, such as TIDAL, Qobuz or similar. This was one of the most handy features of the site for me, because then I could use the rating system to create playlists of newly discovered music in these services. 

While I can ignore the forums, it is difficult to ignore version 3 of the app, which has almost completely broken cache functionality if you attempt to cache FLAC. Blocks either don't load or take a very long time to load, and the skip function ends up playing between a few seconds and half the song before the switch. To fix this, I'm supposed to restart my device. Really? While driving? Yesterday was the final straw, the listed track being completely different to what was being played.  

The post Bill made in reply to mine (again, I can't find it) was about everything being focussed around playlists these days that doesn't work with his (?) idea of having the smooth flow of one song into another. However, this breaks the very user functionality (caching and skipping songs) that he had focussed on for the past few years. I don't see why the RP app shouldn't be playlist-focussed, since that would enable the very functionality that kept me listening and using the app.  

I'm very sad to see that this great online radio station has gone the way it has.  One could very well argue that hey, you aren't paying for anything here, why complain? But the point is, I really have been hoping for the success of this station, and it is my hope that Bill thinks more carefully about the choices he makes and whether they actually make the station and site greater in the long run, or just feel aesthetically pleasing. 
 

Thanks for your thoughts.

First, on the iOS app. The change to the current version was necessary in order to accommodate changes Apple made to Airplay2. The previous app version was completely incompatible with Airplay2, which is a very popular (and all-around excellent) addition to the iOS universe.

Apple's support for the FLAC format is iffy, at best. The changes we made to the way the app plays audio — necessary for Airplay2 support — create some major challenges re: FLAC. It appears that the only truly workable fix for those problems is to switch to using ALAC rather than FLAC on iOS. That requires a bunch of work on the back end that is currently in progress. For now, the best solution is to use the 'Ultra' bitrate (320k AAC — a very, very small step down in quality) and the 'precise' skip setting. That will eliminate the issues you describe. 

I know that there have been a number of issues with the iOS app. Keep in mind that the incompatibility with Airplay2 is not something we anticipated or were warned about. Suddenly our existing app was severely broken for large numbers of users, and we had to fast-track the development of a completely different version. That sort of thing rarely goes smoothly, but we're doing the best we can.


The changes to the website were not made capriciously or in the name of form over function. They were made to address three issues:

1. 'Skip' functionality was not possible using the previous player format

2. The previous site could not support flexible layouts — adapting gracefully to different screen sizes. 

3. The previous site was hand-coded by me. I needed to transition our website into something that was built on a standardized framework (in our case Angular) that could be handed off to a developer. 

We also had a number of improvements to the site that we wanted to add — improvements that have been positively received by most listeners.

As for linking to old posts, why would you need/want to do that?  Scroll down to the post in question, reply to it, and it goes to the top of the topic. We certainly wouldn't be inclined to retain pagination — when the whole online universe has moved to endless scrolling — just to retain the ability to link to a particular range of posts. On the song comments, pagination was removed several years ago. 

As for the player tab crashing, that's not at all a common occurrence. No recent other complaints about that, and I haven't personally experience it for a long, long time. 

We'll be adding a 'favorites export' function, which should work much better than trying to copy/paste stuff from our site. 
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2019 - 7:18am

I always appreciate thoughtful feedback. As Miami suggests below, there is indeed a method to our madness. I'll follow up with a response later today. 
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2019 - 5:55am

i'm guessing there's a very good reason for the evolution of rp

hang in there

{#Music}
Currawong

Currawong Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: May 2, 2019 - 7:13pm

For some time now I have been using, and championing Radio Paradise, recommending to many people as a great means to discover new music. Unfortunately, I will be doing so no longer. The changes to the site, and the mobile app have so fundamentally broken what was great that it no longer functionally useful beyond being a background radio player (which it just failed at, as the tab I was using for playback crashed).

I recently posted detailed feedback about major caching issues with the iOS app in the feedback thread, and while the person who appears to be the developer replied in kind, I was rather disheartened by Bill's reply which seems to prioritise form over function — in fact, the very function he has been promoting for what is now probably years.

As I cannot link to that post due to both the new and old sites being functionally broken, I realised what the problem was, unfortunately one that has overtaken many sites and businesses. Since Bill just announced that he has made his funding goal for the year, maybe he'll just see this as griping and ignore what I have to say, though I hope not. 

If you talk to web site designers, you'll often hear the complaint that a customer wants some or other functionality that they have seen elsewhere, even though that would make the site hard to use, hard to navigate, or break it under certain conditions.  This is essentially what has happened to Radio Paradise, with the move to fancy formatting destroying critical functionality.

The start of this was introducing endlessly scrolling thread and ratings views. By removing pagination in the forums, it is impossible to find and link to an individual post (and thus, the replies) with no indication where you are in a thread. Now the one means to get around the issues - the link to the legacy site — is gone (and, I don't doubt, the legacy site itself will be removed eventually), we are essentially stuck with this mess.  Even using Google, the links to individual posts on the legacy site no longer work.

Likewise, the list of rated tracks, because it is endlessly scrolling, you can no longer cut-and-paste the list to put into other services, such as TIDAL, Qobuz or similar. This was one of the most handy features of the site for me, because then I could use the rating system to create playlists of newly discovered music in these services. 

While I can ignore the forums, it is difficult to ignore version 3 of the app, which has almost completely broken cache functionality if you attempt to cache FLAC. Blocks either don't load or take a very long time to load, and the skip function ends up playing between a few seconds and half the song before the switch. To fix this, I'm supposed to restart my device. Really? While driving? Yesterday was the final straw, the listed track being completely different to what was being played.  

The post Bill made in reply to mine (again, I can't find it) was about everything being focussed around playlists these days that doesn't work with his (?) idea of having the smooth flow of one song into another. However, this breaks the very user functionality (caching and skipping songs) that he had focussed on for the past few years. I don't see why the RP app shouldn't be playlist-focussed, since that would enable the very functionality that kept me listening and using the app.  

I'm very sad to see that this great online radio station has gone the way it has.  One could very well argue that hey, you aren't paying for anything here, why complain? But the point is, I really have been hoping for the success of this station, and it is my hope that Bill thinks more carefully about the choices he makes and whether they actually make the station and site greater in the long run, or just feel aesthetically pleasing.