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Live Music - R_P - Jun 15, 2019 - 12:05pm
 
Race in America - R_P - Jun 15, 2019 - 11:46am
 
Trump - Lazy8 - Jun 15, 2019 - 11:25am
 
How's the weather? - Proclivities - Jun 15, 2019 - 11:06am
 
New Music - R_P - Jun 15, 2019 - 10:49am
 
President Elizabeth Warren - hayduke2 - Jun 15, 2019 - 10:23am
 
Trump Lies - hayduke2 - Jun 15, 2019 - 8:29am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Jun 14, 2019 - 7:55pm
 
Poetry Forum - Antigone - Jun 14, 2019 - 6:51pm
 
Photoshop Help please - echols - Jun 14, 2019 - 5:06pm
 
Rock mix miss you - Arc_Light - Jun 14, 2019 - 4:31pm
 
Fake News*  ?  ! - miamizsun - Jun 14, 2019 - 3:52pm
 
Anti-War - R_P - Jun 14, 2019 - 3:27pm
 
First World Problems - miamizsun - Jun 14, 2019 - 2:59pm
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Jun 14, 2019 - 2:47pm
 
Weird sounds - Red_Dragon - Jun 14, 2019 - 11:17am
 
Weight Loss Discussions - westslope - Jun 14, 2019 - 9:21am
 
Things You Thought Today - miamizsun - Jun 14, 2019 - 8:30am
 
Counting with Pictures - Proclivities - Jun 14, 2019 - 8:10am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Jun 14, 2019 - 8:08am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - Coaxial - Jun 14, 2019 - 6:12am
 
Getting RP in For iPad Mini 2 - BillG - Jun 14, 2019 - 6:06am
 
Basketball, anyone? Hello? Hello? - Proclivities - Jun 14, 2019 - 6:04am
 
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum - sunybuny - Jun 14, 2019 - 5:38am
 
war is a racket - islander - Jun 13, 2019 - 9:43pm
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Jun 13, 2019 - 5:39pm
 
Great guitar faces - Red_Dragon - Jun 13, 2019 - 4:26pm
 
Canada - westslope - Jun 13, 2019 - 3:55pm
 
Hockey + Fantasy Hockey - SeriousLee - Jun 13, 2019 - 3:17pm
 
Outstanding Covers - SeriousLee - Jun 13, 2019 - 3:15pm
 
• • • BRING OUT YOUR DEAD • • •  - oldviolin - Jun 13, 2019 - 2:52pm
 
Favorite Quotes - oldviolin - Jun 13, 2019 - 1:42pm
 
Thought For The Day - oldviolin - Jun 13, 2019 - 1:40pm
 
Brain-Boosting (memory enhancement) - Proclivities - Jun 13, 2019 - 1:34pm
 
Overheard - SeriousLee - Jun 13, 2019 - 1:23pm
 
Gotta Get Your Drink On - SeriousLee - Jun 13, 2019 - 1:17pm
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Jun 13, 2019 - 12:11pm
 
Cryptic Posts - Leave Them Guessing - oldviolin - Jun 13, 2019 - 12:05pm
 
Regarding dogs - oldviolin - Jun 13, 2019 - 11:08am
 
Democratic Party - Red_Dragon - Jun 13, 2019 - 10:06am
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - oldviolin - Jun 13, 2019 - 10:02am
 
Export rated songs playlist - - Jun 13, 2019 - 8:27am
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - black321 - Jun 13, 2019 - 7:19am
 
OUR CATS!! - kurtster - Jun 13, 2019 - 4:35am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Jun 12, 2019 - 2:29pm
 
Bit Rate Resolution in BlueSound? - black321 - Jun 12, 2019 - 2:08pm
 
The russian guy in "Thanks for listening" - BillG - Jun 12, 2019 - 1:52pm
 
Music Videos - sirdroseph - Jun 12, 2019 - 12:28pm
 
Environment - westslope - Jun 12, 2019 - 11:38am
 
Best Song Comments. - sirdroseph - Jun 12, 2019 - 11:34am
 
Why Everything You Believe Is Immoral, Irresponsible, Irr... - oldviolin - Jun 12, 2019 - 10:42am
 
Your Office - Coaxial - Jun 12, 2019 - 9:17am
 
Climate Change - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 12, 2019 - 8:06am
 
American Justice - westslope - Jun 12, 2019 - 7:16am
 
Immigration - sirdroseph - Jun 12, 2019 - 6:51am
 
kurtster's quiet vinyl - kurtster - Jun 12, 2019 - 6:19am
 
France - oldjack - Jun 12, 2019 - 12:45am
 
Radiohead - R_P - Jun 11, 2019 - 12:05pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - miamizsun - Jun 11, 2019 - 11:01am
 
What is Humanity's best invention? - Proclivities - Jun 11, 2019 - 7:42am
 
Movement in the doom groove - Proclivities - Jun 11, 2019 - 6:58am
 
Afghanistan - black321 - Jun 11, 2019 - 6:56am
 
Little known information...maybe even facts - NoEnzLefttoSplit - Jun 11, 2019 - 1:20am
 
What Makes You Laugh? - kurtster - Jun 10, 2019 - 11:57pm
 
WikiLeaks - R_P - Jun 10, 2019 - 4:54pm
 
So... what's been happening here lately? - kcar - Jun 10, 2019 - 4:03pm
 
Cooking for Friends.... - Proclivities - Jun 10, 2019 - 9:56am
 
Baseball, anyone? - zevon - Jun 10, 2019 - 6:10am
 
ROMANIA - rok_tm80 - Jun 10, 2019 - 5:27am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - BillG - Jun 9, 2019 - 6:27pm
 
What are you doing RIGHT NOW? - SeriousLee - Jun 9, 2019 - 3:35pm
 
What are you listening to now? - SeriousLee - Jun 9, 2019 - 2:19pm
 
Play the Blues - sirdroseph - Jun 9, 2019 - 6:37am
 
The war on funk is over! - rhahl - Jun 8, 2019 - 10:52am
 
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests - triskele - Jun 8, 2019 - 10:12am
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » About RP » When form overtakes function and destroys a site.
Post to this Topic
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2019 - 8:45am



 ptooey wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 BillG wrote:
Most of the missing features mentioned in this thread — user search, display of all posts by a user, ability to link to specific posts, and a few others — should now be operational. You might have to reload this tab to have them show up.

If you're still using the forum on the legacy site for any of those reasons, I encourage you to give the new site a try.
 

:cheers: ;-) 
 
 
I confess I never did learn HOW to link to an old post, but others did it often. Maybe someone can give me a tutorial.
 
Easier now than it used to be. If you mouse-hover over the 'when posted' info on the upper left of the post in question, the url can be copied. Paste that into YOUR post and wa-LAH.


Edit - thusly...  https://radioparadise.com/comm...
 

Ooh! :cheers:
ptooey

ptooey Avatar

Location: right behind you. no, over there.
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2019 - 8:09am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 BillG wrote:
Most of the missing features mentioned in this thread — user search, display of all posts by a user, ability to link to specific posts, and a few others — should now be operational. You might have to reload this tab to have them show up.

If you're still using the forum on the legacy site for any of those reasons, I encourage you to give the new site a try.
 

:cheers: ;-) 
 
 
I confess I never did learn HOW to link to an old post, but others did it often. Maybe someone can give me a tutorial.
 
Easier now than it used to be. If you mouse-hover over the 'when posted' info on the upper left of the post in question, the url can be copied. Paste that into YOUR post and wa-LAH.


Edit - thusly...  https://radioparadise.com/comm...
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2019 - 7:33am



 BillG wrote:
Most of the missing features mentioned in this thread — user search, display of all posts by a user, ability to link to specific posts, and a few others — should now be operational. You might have to reload this tab to have them show up.

If you're still using the forum on the legacy site for any of those reasons, I encourage you to give the new site a try.
 

:cheers: ;-) 
 
 
I confess I never did learn HOW to link to an old post, but others did it often. Maybe someone can give me a tutorial.
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2019 - 6:48am

Most of the missing features mentioned in this thread — user search, display of all posts by a user, ability to link to specific posts, and a few others — should now be operational. You might have to reload this tab to have them show up.

If you're still using the forum on the legacy site for any of those reasons, I encourage you to give the new site a try.
KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma Avatar



Posted: May 4, 2019 - 10:28pm

Currawong wrote:

The inability to link to old posts is a real problem. Finding what people said, especially you, is important.  I used to admin a huge forum where we'd get a LOT of repeat questions, and members had bookmarked relevant posts, so you'd get either a link to the answer, or a "search the thread for X and Y" and they'd be able to find it easily.

"the whole universe has moved to endless scrolling" — No, that's just not true. Most significantly, no major forum has it that I know of. Many news sites use it because it keeps people reading, which is better for web metrics, which are important for selling advertising. The longer someone is on your site, the more ads you can sell for more money. Ditto why Youtube and Facebook have autoplay on videos.  It is completely useless for a forum where interaction is rarely continuous. It only ends up inhibiting interaction, not enhancing it.

If it's feasible, you should seriously consider moving to modern forum software like XenForo. The improvement in functionality would make people very happy I reckon.

 
I strongly beg to differ, re your comments about endless scrolling. 

I'm a long-time forum reader (on several sites) and sure, the first time I ran into endless scrolling on a favorite forum, it was a wtf moment.  Then, after more use - especially intensive use as I follow a hot topic, I got used to it - and appreciated its value. 

The value of endless scrolling even shines on a forum that by its nature HAS to have moderators stepping in at all hours and constantly deleting off-topic or even, legally iffy posts.  When the mods do that, the post count obviously changes - and moving back and forth between page 33 and 34 say, on a site without endless scrolling WILL produce annoying results as you miss posts as the order/number changes. 

I've seen the light - endless scrolling is a good feature and a terrific evolution for active forums.  Having endless scrolling doesn't mean you can't easily link to important posts.  It's quite doable.

Here's a prime example of a major forum using the mature front-end vBulletin.  It's a very active forum, with tens of thousands of users, and millions of views, which transitioned to endless scrolling in the last year or so.  And a reader can still jump around by 'pages' while reading its topics.  Linking to the url of a given post remains easy.

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news-13/


BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: May 4, 2019 - 8:30pm



 Currawong wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts.

First, on the iOS app. The change to the current version was necessary in order to accommodate changes Apple made to Airplay2. The previous app version was completely incompatible with Airplay2, which is a very popular (and all-around excellent) addition to the iOS universe.

Apple's support for the FLAC format is iffy, at best. The changes we made to the way the app plays audio — necessary for Airplay2 support — create some major challenges re: FLAC. It appears that the only truly workable fix for those problems is to switch to using ALAC rather than FLAC on iOS. That requires a bunch of work on the back end that is currently in progress. For now, the best solution is to use the 'Ultra' bitrate (320k AAC — a very, very small step down in quality) and the 'precise' skip setting. That will eliminate the issues you describe.

I know that there have been a number of issues with the iOS app. Keep in mind that the incompatibility with Airplay2 is not something we anticipated or were warned about. Suddenly our existing app was severely broken for large numbers of users, and we had to fast-track the development of a completely different version. That sort of thing rarely goes smoothly, but we're doing the best we can.


The changes to the website were not made capriciously or in the name of form over function. They were made to address three issues:

1. 'Skip' functionality was not possible using the previous player format

2. The previous site could not support flexible layouts — adapting gracefully to different screen sizes.

3. The previous site was hand-coded by me. I needed to transition our website into something that was built on a standardized framework (in our case Angular) that could be handed off to a developer.

We also had a number of improvements to the site that we wanted to add — improvements that have been positively received by most listeners.

As for linking to old posts, why would you need/want to do that? Scroll down to the post in question, reply to it, and it goes to the top of the topic. We certainly wouldn't be inclined to retain pagination — when the whole online universe has moved to endless scrolling — just to retain the ability to link to a particular range of posts. On the song comments, pagination was removed several years ago.

As for the player tab crashing, that's not at all a common occurrence. No recent other complaints about that, and I haven't personally experience it for a long, long time.

We'll be adding a 'favorites export' function, which should work much better than trying to copy/paste stuff from our site.


Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed reply. 

I recall now you mentioning Airplay2. I had gone back to try and find your original reply, but couldn't. I'll have a go with 320k caching instead, since it's only for in the car. If you haven't already, please bring back the Rock Mix. I was enjoying that before it disappeared.

I'm happy to hear about the Favourites export function. The rest of the web player I like (I'm using it now) so if I get any weird behaviour, I'll see if I can't extract an error message.

The inability to link to old posts is a real problem. Finding what people said, especially you, is important.  I used to admin a huge forum where we'd get a LOT of repeat questions, and members had bookmarked relevant posts, so you'd get either a link to the answer, or a "search the thread for X and Y" and they'd be able to find it easily.

"he whole universe has moved to endless scrolling" — No, that's just not true. Most significantly, no major forum has it that I know of. Many news sites use it because it keeps people reading, which is better for web metrics, which are important for selling advertising. The longer someone is on your site, the more ads you can sell for more money. Ditto why Youtube and Facebook have autoplay on videos.  It is completely useless for a forum where interaction is rarely continuous. It only ends up inhibiting interaction, not enhancing it.

If it's feasible, you should seriously consider moving to modern forum software like XenForo. The improvement in functionality would make people very happy I reckon.
 

The current forum format works really well for my particular use case: mobile browser (usually), & an almost exclusive focus on new posts & topics. 

I agree that for other flavors of usage it's less than ideal. There are still some bits we can finish & things we can tweak. It's easy for forum-related issues to get put on the back burner, as it's used by only a small percentage of RP users (< 1%). Not an excuse, just an explanation... 

I'll look into XenForo. 
Currawong

Currawong Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: May 4, 2019 - 8:04pm

Thanks for your thoughts.

First, on the iOS app. The change to the current version was necessary in order to accommodate changes Apple made to Airplay2. The previous app version was completely incompatible with Airplay2, which is a very popular (and all-around excellent) addition to the iOS universe.

Apple's support for the FLAC format is iffy, at best. The changes we made to the way the app plays audio — necessary for Airplay2 support — create some major challenges re: FLAC. It appears that the only truly workable fix for those problems is to switch to using ALAC rather than FLAC on iOS. That requires a bunch of work on the back end that is currently in progress. For now, the best solution is to use the 'Ultra' bitrate (320k AAC — a very, very small step down in quality) and the 'precise' skip setting. That will eliminate the issues you describe.

I know that there have been a number of issues with the iOS app. Keep in mind that the incompatibility with Airplay2 is not something we anticipated or were warned about. Suddenly our existing app was severely broken for large numbers of users, and we had to fast-track the development of a completely different version. That sort of thing rarely goes smoothly, but we're doing the best we can.


The changes to the website were not made capriciously or in the name of form over function. They were made to address three issues:

1. 'Skip' functionality was not possible using the previous player format

2. The previous site could not support flexible layouts — adapting gracefully to different screen sizes.

3. The previous site was hand-coded by me. I needed to transition our website into something that was built on a standardized framework (in our case Angular) that could be handed off to a developer.

We also had a number of improvements to the site that we wanted to add — improvements that have been positively received by most listeners.

As for linking to old posts, why would you need/want to do that? Scroll down to the post in question, reply to it, and it goes to the top of the topic. We certainly wouldn't be inclined to retain pagination — when the whole online universe has moved to endless scrolling — just to retain the ability to link to a particular range of posts. On the song comments, pagination was removed several years ago.

As for the player tab crashing, that's not at all a common occurrence. No recent other complaints about that, and I haven't personally experience it for a long, long time.

We'll be adding a 'favorites export' function, which should work much better than trying to copy/paste stuff from our site.


Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed reply. 

I recall now you mentioning Airplay2. I had gone back to try and find your original reply, but couldn't. I'll have a go with 320k caching instead, since it's only for in the car. If you haven't already, please bring back the Rock Mix. I was enjoying that before it disappeared.

I'm happy to hear about the Favourites export function. The rest of the web player I like (I'm using it now) so if I get any weird behaviour, I'll see if I can't extract an error message.

The inability to link to old posts is a real problem. Finding what people said, especially you, is important.  I used to admin a huge forum where we'd get a LOT of repeat questions, and members had bookmarked relevant posts, so you'd get either a link to the answer, or a "search the thread for X and Y" and they'd be able to find it easily.

"he whole universe has moved to endless scrolling" — No, that's just not true. Most significantly, no major forum has it that I know of. Many news sites use it because it keeps people reading, which is better for web metrics, which are important for selling advertising. The longer someone is on your site, the more ads you can sell for more money. Ditto why Youtube and Facebook have autoplay on videos.  It is completely useless for a forum where interaction is rarely continuous. It only ends up inhibiting interaction, not enhancing it.

If it's feasible, you should seriously consider moving to modern forum software like XenForo. The improvement in functionality would make people very happy I reckon.
SeriousLee

SeriousLee Avatar

Location: Dans l'milieu d'deux milles livres


Posted: May 4, 2019 - 1:21pm

 Skydog wrote:

I check in once in a great while but don't listen anymore. No computer problems, it's just that I can't stand the sound of The Who, The Doors, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Talking Heads, Peter Gabriel & R.E.M anymore. I used to be able to tolerate it but it just keeps getting worse.
Oh and there's that Cloud Cult problem too, uh oh...I see up on top that The National is playing now
Bye-bye {#Cowboy}

 
You had me up to LZ.

PF? TH? Dems are fighting words!{#Beat}

Gabriel and REM, I can take or leave.

CC, well that's an acquired taste. And I've acquired it. {#Cheesygrin}

Miss you, Skydog. {#Cheers}
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2019 - 6:56pm



 kcar wrote:

 
Not sure that my observation belongs in this thread, but what the hey. The forum on the new site isn't as good or functional as the forum on the old site. It's not clear to me, for instance, why the new site's forum doesn't allow you to view other users' old posts except the very latest post. As for linking to old posts, it's helpful when you're discussing something in the forum to point RPers to past statements on a topic.
 
I also tried to find a way to search the new site for RPers by user name but I couldn't find it. So if you is trying to review another RPer's past statements and opinions on a subject, you can't.
 
If you compromise the ability to search and refer to the history of a discussion, you compromise the depth of the discussion and indirectly encourage people to talk at each other, not to each other. They will also tend to repeat themselves if they're not given feedback/pushback from other posters.
 
Perhaps the new forum has improved since I last used it, but I (and IIRC other RPers such as kurtster) use the new site to listen to new music and open the old site in a separate tab to read and post in the forum. 
 
As for the iOS app—wow, I had no idea Apple had made things so hard for you, Bill. I hope you've been able to overcome those issues. At one point I threw up my hands in despair when trying to cache music on my iPhone 6—the UI indicated the app was attempting to cache but the app never stored anything from what I could tell. Around the same time, for some reason the segues from song to song were way off so tracks were overlapping each other for around 5 seconds. Perhaps matters have improved...fingers crossed.
 
Good luck to you guys. I think the new site is pretty good. Bill, I encourage you and Rebecca and whoever else to take a strong interest in maintaining and improving the ability of RPers to communicate with each other and view each other's thoughts. If you take that capacity away, you compromise the sense of community that RP promotes and your site might eventually turn into another free resource that people should donate to, but don't.

 

Some good points. Most of them are features that weren't deliberately dropped, just kind of lost on the transition (like searching for members & seeing their post history). Those can certainly be added back. 
Skydog

Skydog Avatar



Posted: May 3, 2019 - 5:35pm

 Currawong wrote:
For some time now I have been using, and championing Radio Paradise, recommending to many people as a great means to discover new music. Unfortunately, I will be doing so no longer. 
 
I check in once in a great while but don't listen anymore. No computer problems, it's just that I can't stand the sound of The Who, The Doors, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Talking Heads, Peter Gabriel & R.E.M anymore. I used to be able to tolerate it but it just keeps getting worse.
Oh and there's that Cloud Cult problem too, uh oh...I see up on top that The National is playing now
Bye-bye {#Cowboy}
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 3, 2019 - 5:14pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 BillG wrote:


 
As for linking to old posts, why would you need/want to do that?  Scroll down to the post in question, reply to it, and it goes to the top of the topic. 
 

 
It's sometimes nice to be able to refer to an individual post as  a way to point to a conversation that took place. We tend to recycle old threads rather than start a new one every damn time an idea pops into our heads, but maybe we should get over that.

 
 
Not sure that my observation belongs in this thread, but what the hey. The forum on the new site isn't as good or functional as the forum on the old site. It's not clear to me, for instance, why the new site's forum doesn't allow you to view other users' old posts except the very latest post. As for linking to old posts, it's helpful when you're discussing something in the forum to point RPers to past statements on a topic.
 
I also tried to find a way to search the new site for RPers by user name but I couldn't find it. So if you is trying to review another RPer's past statements and opinions on a subject, you can't.
 
If you compromise the ability to search and refer to the history of a discussion, you compromise the depth of the discussion and indirectly encourage people to talk at each other, not to each other. They will also tend to repeat themselves if they're not given feedback/pushback from other posters.
 
Perhaps the new forum has improved since I last used it, but I (and IIRC other RPers such as kurtster) use the new site to listen to new music and open the old site in a separate tab to read and post in the forum. 
 
As for the iOS app—wow, I had no idea Apple had made things so hard for you, Bill. I hope you've been able to overcome those issues. At one point I threw up my hands in despair when trying to cache music on my iPhone 6—the UI indicated the app was attempting to cache but the app never stored anything from what I could tell. Around the same time, for some reason the segues from song to song were way off so tracks were overlapping each other for around 5 seconds. Perhaps matters have improved...fingers crossed.
 
Good luck to you guys. I think the new site is pretty good. Bill, I encourage you and Rebecca and whoever else to take a strong interest in maintaining and improving the ability of RPers to communicate with each other and view each other's thoughts. If you take that capacity away, you compromise the sense of community that RP promotes and your site might eventually turn into another free resource that people should donate to, but don't.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2019 - 12:08pm



 BillG wrote:


 
As for linking to old posts, why would you need/want to do that?  Scroll down to the post in question, reply to it, and it goes to the top of the topic. 
 

 
It's sometimes nice to be able to refer to an individual post as  a way to point to a conversation that took place. We tend to recycle old threads rather than start a new one every damn time an idea pops into our heads, but maybe we should get over that.
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2019 - 11:59am



 Currawong wrote:
For some time now I have been using, and championing Radio Paradise, recommending to many people as a great means to discover new music. Unfortunately, I will be doing so no longer. The changes to the site, and the mobile app have so fundamentally broken what was great that it no longer functionally useful beyond being a background radio player (which it just failed at, as the tab I was using for playback crashed).

I recently posted detailed feedback about major caching issues with the iOS app in the feedback thread, and while the person who appears to be the developer replied in kind, I was rather disheartened by Bill's reply which seems to prioritise form over function — in fact, the very function he has been promoting for what is now probably years.

As I cannot link to that post due to both the new and old sites being functionally broken, I realised what the problem was, unfortunately one that has overtaken many sites and businesses. Since Bill just announced that he has made his funding goal for the year, maybe he'll just see this as griping and ignore what I have to say, though I hope not. 

If you talk to web site designers, you'll often hear the complaint that a customer wants some or other functionality that they have seen elsewhere, even though that would make the site hard to use, hard to navigate, or break it under certain conditions.  This is essentially what has happened to Radio Paradise, with the move to fancy formatting destroying critical functionality.

The start of this was introducing endlessly scrolling thread and ratings views. By removing pagination in the forums, it is impossible to find and link to an individual post (and thus, the replies) with no indication where you are in a thread. Now the one means to get around the issues - the link to the legacy site — is gone (and, I don't doubt, the legacy site itself will be removed eventually), we are essentially stuck with this mess.  Even using Google, the links to individual posts on the legacy site no longer work.

Likewise, the list of rated tracks, because it is endlessly scrolling, you can no longer cut-and-paste the list to put into other services, such as TIDAL, Qobuz or similar. This was one of the most handy features of the site for me, because then I could use the rating system to create playlists of newly discovered music in these services. 

While I can ignore the forums, it is difficult to ignore version 3 of the app, which has almost completely broken cache functionality if you attempt to cache FLAC. Blocks either don't load or take a very long time to load, and the skip function ends up playing between a few seconds and half the song before the switch. To fix this, I'm supposed to restart my device. Really? While driving? Yesterday was the final straw, the listed track being completely different to what was being played.  

The post Bill made in reply to mine (again, I can't find it) was about everything being focussed around playlists these days that doesn't work with his (?) idea of having the smooth flow of one song into another. However, this breaks the very user functionality (caching and skipping songs) that he had focussed on for the past few years. I don't see why the RP app shouldn't be playlist-focussed, since that would enable the very functionality that kept me listening and using the app.  

I'm very sad to see that this great online radio station has gone the way it has.  One could very well argue that hey, you aren't paying for anything here, why complain? But the point is, I really have been hoping for the success of this station, and it is my hope that Bill thinks more carefully about the choices he makes and whether they actually make the station and site greater in the long run, or just feel aesthetically pleasing. 
 

Thanks for your thoughts.

First, on the iOS app. The change to the current version was necessary in order to accommodate changes Apple made to Airplay2. The previous app version was completely incompatible with Airplay2, which is a very popular (and all-around excellent) addition to the iOS universe.

Apple's support for the FLAC format is iffy, at best. The changes we made to the way the app plays audio — necessary for Airplay2 support — create some major challenges re: FLAC. It appears that the only truly workable fix for those problems is to switch to using ALAC rather than FLAC on iOS. That requires a bunch of work on the back end that is currently in progress. For now, the best solution is to use the 'Ultra' bitrate (320k AAC — a very, very small step down in quality) and the 'precise' skip setting. That will eliminate the issues you describe. 

I know that there have been a number of issues with the iOS app. Keep in mind that the incompatibility with Airplay2 is not something we anticipated or were warned about. Suddenly our existing app was severely broken for large numbers of users, and we had to fast-track the development of a completely different version. That sort of thing rarely goes smoothly, but we're doing the best we can.


The changes to the website were not made capriciously or in the name of form over function. They were made to address three issues:

1. 'Skip' functionality was not possible using the previous player format

2. The previous site could not support flexible layouts — adapting gracefully to different screen sizes. 

3. The previous site was hand-coded by me. I needed to transition our website into something that was built on a standardized framework (in our case Angular) that could be handed off to a developer. 

We also had a number of improvements to the site that we wanted to add — improvements that have been positively received by most listeners.

As for linking to old posts, why would you need/want to do that?  Scroll down to the post in question, reply to it, and it goes to the top of the topic. We certainly wouldn't be inclined to retain pagination — when the whole online universe has moved to endless scrolling — just to retain the ability to link to a particular range of posts. On the song comments, pagination was removed several years ago. 

As for the player tab crashing, that's not at all a common occurrence. No recent other complaints about that, and I haven't personally experience it for a long, long time. 

We'll be adding a 'favorites export' function, which should work much better than trying to copy/paste stuff from our site. 
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2019 - 7:18am

I always appreciate thoughtful feedback. As Miami suggests below, there is indeed a method to our madness. I'll follow up with a response later today. 
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: May 3, 2019 - 5:55am

i'm guessing there's a very good reason for the evolution of rp

hang in there

{#Music}
Currawong

Currawong Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: May 2, 2019 - 7:13pm

For some time now I have been using, and championing Radio Paradise, recommending to many people as a great means to discover new music. Unfortunately, I will be doing so no longer. The changes to the site, and the mobile app have so fundamentally broken what was great that it no longer functionally useful beyond being a background radio player (which it just failed at, as the tab I was using for playback crashed).

I recently posted detailed feedback about major caching issues with the iOS app in the feedback thread, and while the person who appears to be the developer replied in kind, I was rather disheartened by Bill's reply which seems to prioritise form over function — in fact, the very function he has been promoting for what is now probably years.

As I cannot link to that post due to both the new and old sites being functionally broken, I realised what the problem was, unfortunately one that has overtaken many sites and businesses. Since Bill just announced that he has made his funding goal for the year, maybe he'll just see this as griping and ignore what I have to say, though I hope not. 

If you talk to web site designers, you'll often hear the complaint that a customer wants some or other functionality that they have seen elsewhere, even though that would make the site hard to use, hard to navigate, or break it under certain conditions.  This is essentially what has happened to Radio Paradise, with the move to fancy formatting destroying critical functionality.

The start of this was introducing endlessly scrolling thread and ratings views. By removing pagination in the forums, it is impossible to find and link to an individual post (and thus, the replies) with no indication where you are in a thread. Now the one means to get around the issues - the link to the legacy site — is gone (and, I don't doubt, the legacy site itself will be removed eventually), we are essentially stuck with this mess.  Even using Google, the links to individual posts on the legacy site no longer work.

Likewise, the list of rated tracks, because it is endlessly scrolling, you can no longer cut-and-paste the list to put into other services, such as TIDAL, Qobuz or similar. This was one of the most handy features of the site for me, because then I could use the rating system to create playlists of newly discovered music in these services. 

While I can ignore the forums, it is difficult to ignore version 3 of the app, which has almost completely broken cache functionality if you attempt to cache FLAC. Blocks either don't load or take a very long time to load, and the skip function ends up playing between a few seconds and half the song before the switch. To fix this, I'm supposed to restart my device. Really? While driving? Yesterday was the final straw, the listed track being completely different to what was being played.  

The post Bill made in reply to mine (again, I can't find it) was about everything being focussed around playlists these days that doesn't work with his (?) idea of having the smooth flow of one song into another. However, this breaks the very user functionality (caching and skipping songs) that he had focussed on for the past few years. I don't see why the RP app shouldn't be playlist-focussed, since that would enable the very functionality that kept me listening and using the app.  

I'm very sad to see that this great online radio station has gone the way it has.  One could very well argue that hey, you aren't paying for anything here, why complain? But the point is, I really have been hoping for the success of this station, and it is my hope that Bill thinks more carefully about the choices he makes and whether they actually make the station and site greater in the long run, or just feel aesthetically pleasing.