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redwoodcat

redwoodcat Avatar

Location: Santa Cruz, CA


Posted: Jul 12, 2019 - 10:33am



 BillG wrote:


 TonyApuzzo wrote:
What is the sampling rate of the FLAC Channel?  Is it 44.1 kHz (as I suspect)?  Or is it 48 kHz?  The reason I'm asking is that I am trying to get bit-perfect streaming to my main stereo system and am trying to figure out the best device to use... I don't really expect to hear an audible difference but my geek side wants to have the purest audio path possible :-)

 
Almost all of source files (ripped from CDs, mostly) are 44.1, so it doesn't really make sense to use anything else. 

 

I note that when I hook my headphone amp/DAC up to my iPad (HRT HeadStreamer, via the Apple USB camera adapter)  it initially goes into 48k mode. But after I start up the RP app, in ALAC mode, and start playing the stream then the DAC flips into 44.1k mode. Nice to know that it’s doing the right thing. Thanks Bill for also supporting Apple’s version of FLAC.
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 3:12pm



 geeteaare wrote:

Thanks for the reply.
I tried, "Streamwhatyouhear". and it did stream the FLAC stream through Tune in on the Sonos. I'm guessing your FLAC stream via the internet player is 16 bit? Comparing it to the 320AAC stream was interesting to say the least..
I'm on the Sonos site. It states that Sonos will play stored music via FLAC (16 bit?)however, will only support streaming radio formats, MP3, AAC, and WMA in 16 bit.
Can we assume what you're working on is a 16 bit FLAC  streaming url?  
Regards, 
MN 

https://support.sonos.com/s/article/79?language=en_US


 

Yes. A 16bit FLAC stream via Icecast.

I'm not sure if it will work via Sonos, but I suspect that it probably will. 
geeteaare



Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 11:42am


Thanks for the reply.
I tried, "Streamwhatyouhear". and it did stream the FLAC stream through Tune in on the Sonos. I'm guessing your FLAC stream via the internet player is 16 bit? Comparing it to the 320AAC stream was interesting to say the least..
I'm on the Sonos site. It states that Sonos will play stored music via FLAC (16 bit?)however, will only support streaming radio formats, MP3, AAC, and WMA in 16 bit.
Can we assume what you're working on is a 16 bit FLAC  streaming url?  
Regards, 
MN 



https://support.sonos.com/s/article/79?language=en_US



 BillG wrote:


 geeteaare wrote:


 BillG wrote:


 BillG wrote:
Someone posted this from an invalid account:

RP is fabulous in 320 AAC but I long for flac. I'm run a Moode RPi 3+ renderer that handles the JB Radio 2's 6.1 mb flac stream (fastest free stream on these web) without software on my end. Could RP consider usinng that format? It works great except it lacks pics and song info (JBR2 includes on their AAC stream).

 

I'm not aware of any way to do a true FLAC stream, playable via a URL in a normal stream player.  All of the "streams" I'm aware of are actually just playlists. 

I don't see anything on JB Radio's site about FLAC. If you point me to some info, I'll take a look at what they're doing. 

Before replying, please either validate your account or create a new one & validate that. Looks like you slipped in through a bug in our system.
 

Is it possible to download a block in FLAC and allow the Android phone to find that block in the Sonus app?
MN
 

No. Sorry. 

However, we're working on a way to provide a FLAC stream link for Sonos & other players. Looks like that will be available soon. 
 


BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 10:47am



 geeteaare wrote:


 BillG wrote:


 BillG wrote:
Someone posted this from an invalid account:

RP is fabulous in 320 AAC but I long for flac. I'm run a Moode RPi 3+ renderer that handles the JB Radio 2's 6.1 mb flac stream (fastest free stream on these web) without software on my end. Could RP consider usinng that format? It works great except it lacks pics and song info (JBR2 includes on their AAC stream).

 

I'm not aware of any way to do a true FLAC stream, playable via a URL in a normal stream player.  All of the "streams" I'm aware of are actually just playlists. 

I don't see anything on JB Radio's site about FLAC. If you point me to some info, I'll take a look at what they're doing. 

Before replying, please either validate your account or create a new one & validate that. Looks like you slipped in through a bug in our system.
 

Is it possible to download a block in FLAC and allow the Android phone to find that block in the Sonus app?
MN
 

No. Sorry. 

However, we're working on a way to provide a FLAC stream link for Sonos & other players. Looks like that will be available soon. 
geeteaare



Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 9:47am



 BillG wrote:


 BillG wrote:
Someone posted this from an invalid account:

RP is fabulous in 320 AAC but I long for flac. I'm run a Moode RPi 3+ renderer that handles the JB Radio 2's 6.1 mb flac stream (fastest free stream on these web) without software on my end. Could RP consider usinng that format? It works great except it lacks pics and song info (JBR2 includes on their AAC stream).

 

I'm not aware of any way to do a true FLAC stream, playable via a URL in a normal stream player.  All of the "streams" I'm aware of are actually just playlists. 

I don't see anything on JB Radio's site about FLAC. If you point me to some info, I'll take a look at what they're doing. 

Before replying, please either validate your account or create a new one & validate that. Looks like you slipped in through a bug in our system.
 

Is it possible to download a block in FLAC and allow the Android phone to find that block in the Sonus app?
MN
dpozzi

dpozzi Avatar

Location: Marcos Juarez, Argentina
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 8, 2019 - 7:25am



 BillG wrote:


 BillG wrote:
Someone posted this from an invalid account:

RP is fabulous in 320 AAC but I long for flac. I'm run a Moode RPi 3+ renderer that handles the JB Radio 2's 6.1 mb flac stream (fastest free stream on these web) without software on my end. Could RP consider usinng that format? It works great except it lacks pics and song info (JBR2 includes on their AAC stream).

 

I'm not aware of any way to do a true FLAC stream, playable via a URL in a normal stream player.  All of the "streams" I'm aware of are actually just playlists. 

I don't see anything on JB Radio's site about FLAC. If you point me to some info, I'll take a look at what they're doing. 

Before replying, please either validate your account or create a new one & validate that. Looks like you slipped in through a bug in our system.
 
Hi Bill, you can try in this URL: http://199.189.87.9:10999/flac
nickt1

nickt1 Avatar

Location: Methven NewZealand
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 2, 2019 - 5:28pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
 BillG wrote:


 nickt1 wrote:


 BillG wrote:


 westslope wrote:
Some feedback and a question.

I listened to the streamng FLAC the other day on the new (beta) site.  It was good. 

But frankly, I could not tell the difference with the 320k AAC stream which I have been using for a long time now.  The description on the web-site — "truly awesome sound quality" — is accurate.

I listened to the FLAC stream on a 2.1 system.  


So out of curiosity, what difference with the 320k AAC stream should I hear on the FLAC stream?  
 

The difference between 320k AAC & FLAC is very subtle. Not audible at all on a lot of material, and audible only on very good equipment in any circumstances. 

I find it to be a bit more open and clearly defined, with a very solid bottom end. But I'll bet I'd flunk a blind a/b test a lot of the time. 


 
Yes the difference between FLAC  and 320 AAC is subtle. Flac(Lossless) has more dynamic range as the music is not compressed and provides more ambient cues outside the normal listening range to give a more convincing and live sound.
In saying that you also need a system capable of reproducing those sounds to get the benefit.

 

Actually, the dynamic range is the same. Data compression and dynamics compression are different things, and the AAC algorithm does not apply any dynamic range compression. However, it does remove or alter some subtle allegedly-inaudible components of the audio that, to my ears, make the audio slightly less lifelike. 

I have a good DAC and amp (Naim) , and a pretty decent pair of speakers (Polk). On those I can't hear the difference at all. But I also have an excellent set of headphones (Beyer DT 1770). On those, at least on well-recorded material, the difference is clearly audible. 
 


number7

number7 Avatar

Location: Far side of nowhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 25, 2019 - 6:30pm

Will there be a FLAC stream available for secondary players?
I sure hope so. OGG is great but FLAC has just that extra nuance and I use a great sound system.

On another note I have had a lot of trouble using your new player and FLAC. It gets part way through a song and stops. Sometimes it comes back, sometimes.
If I refresh the page it often plays through or if I skip the song that works too.
I use Firefox & have not tried a different browser.
Instead I usually go back to AIMP & OGG Too bad really.
I does not always happen but often enough & sometime once an evening.

Bottom line.
I am hoping to have FLAC and a selection of your new steams available for using in AIMP . I have not tried your mellow mix yet but love the Groovy mix & Rock mix though your playlists are not as deep as I would like & maybe a little short.
Don't get me wrong I am a devoted listener.
I think....since 2000.
When I find someone that loves music and will listen, I sing the song of Radio Paradise.
Peace and Love to everyone that gives us rp.

BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 21, 2019 - 1:09pm



 BillG wrote:
Someone posted this from an invalid account:

RP is fabulous in 320 AAC but I long for flac. I'm run a Moode RPi 3+ renderer that handles the JB Radio 2's 6.1 mb flac stream (fastest free stream on these web) without software on my end. Could RP consider usinng that format? It works great except it lacks pics and song info (JBR2 includes on their AAC stream).

 

I'm not aware of any way to do a true FLAC stream, playable via a URL in a normal stream player.  All of the "streams" I'm aware of are actually just playlists. 

I don't see anything on JB Radio's site about FLAC. If you point me to some info, I'll take a look at what they're doing. 

Before replying, please either validate your account or create a new one & validate that. Looks like you slipped in through a bug in our system.
BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 21, 2019 - 1:06pm

Someone posted this from an invalid account:

RP is fabulous in 320 AAC but I long for flac. I'm run a Moode RPi 3+ renderer that handles the JB Radio 2's 6.1 mb flac stream (fastest free stream on these web) without software on my end. Could RP consider usinng that format? It works great except it lacks pics and song info (JBR2 includes on their AAC stream).

BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 21, 2019 - 6:51am



 nickt1 wrote:


 BillG wrote:


 westslope wrote:
Some feedback and a question.

I listened to the streamng FLAC the other day on the new (beta) site.  It was good. 

But frankly, I could not tell the difference with the 320k AAC stream which I have been using for a long time now.  The description on the web-site — "truly awesome sound quality" — is accurate.

I listened to the FLAC stream on a 2.1 system.  


So out of curiosity, what difference with the 320k AAC stream should I hear on the FLAC stream?  
 

The difference between 320k AAC & FLAC is very subtle. Not audible at all on a lot of material, and audible only on very good equipment in any circumstances. 

I find it to be a bit more open and clearly defined, with a very solid bottom end. But I'll bet I'd flunk a blind a/b test a lot of the time. 


 
Yes the difference between FLAC  and 320 AAC is subtle. Flac(Lossless) has more dynamic range as the music is not compressed and provides more ambient cues outside the normal listening range to give a more convincing and live sound.
In saying that you also need a system capable of reproducing those sounds to get the benefit.

 

Actually, the dynamic range is the same. Data compression and dynamics compression are different things, and the AAC algorithm does not apply any dynamic range compression. However, it does remove or alter some subtle allegedly-inaudible components of the audio that, to my ears, make the audio slightly less lifelike. 

I have a good DAC and amp (Naim) , and a pretty decent pair of speakers (Polk). On those I can't hear the difference at all. But I also have an excellent set of headphones (Beyer DT 1770). On those, at least on well-recorded material, the difference is clearly audible. 
nickt1

nickt1 Avatar

Location: Methven NewZealand
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 20, 2019 - 11:51pm



 BillG wrote:


 westslope wrote:
Some feedback and a question.

I listened to the streamng FLAC the other day on the new (beta) site.  It was good. 

But frankly, I could not tell the difference with the 320k AAC stream which I have been using for a long time now.  The description on the web-site — "truly awesome sound quality" — is accurate.

I listened to the FLAC stream on a 2.1 system.  


So out of curiosity, what difference with the 320k AAC stream should I hear on the FLAC stream?  
 

The difference between 320k AAC & FLAC is very subtle. Not audible at all on a lot of material, and audible only on very good equipment in any circumstances. 

I find it to be a bit more open and clearly defined, with a very solid bottom end. But I'll bet I'd flunk a blind a/b test a lot of the time. 


 
Yes the difference between FLAC  and 320 AAC is subtle. Flac(Lossless) has more dynamic range as the music is not compressed and provides more ambient cues outside the normal listening range to give a more convincing and live sound.
In saying that you also need a system capable of reproducing those sounds to get the benefit.

BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 8, 2019 - 9:25am



 aspicer wrote:


 BillG wrote:

FLAC is currently available only via our Android & iOS apps, AppleTV, FireTV & our MacOS desktop app.

It will be available via our web player (all modern browsers & platforms) soon. We're investigating ways to make it work on hardware & software stream players, but that will probably take a while.
 
Would love to see FLAC/lossless streaming become part of not only Sonos but the Naim Audio stream that is currently 320.  Is that in the works also Bill? Fingers crossed...!  As always, a HUGE RP fan - thanks for all you do.

 

We'd be happy to work with Sonos, Naim & any other hardware manufacturers. Unfortunately, our system currently requires software at the receive end for it to work. We may eventually find a workaround for that — but other advanced features, like song skipping, will definitely require client-side (receiver) software.
aspicer

aspicer Avatar

Location: Chicago, IL
Gender: Male


Posted: Jan 7, 2019 - 2:24pm



 BillG wrote:

FLAC is currently available only via our Android & iOS apps, AppleTV, FireTV & our MacOS desktop app.

It will be available via our web player (all modern browsers & platforms) soon. We're investigating ways to make it work on hardware & software stream players, but that will probably take a while.
 
Would love to see FLAC/lossless streaming become part of not only Sonos but the Naim Audio stream that is currently 320.  Is that in the works also Bill? Fingers crossed...!  As always, a HUGE RP fan - thanks for all you do.

BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 28, 2018 - 1:12pm



 TonyApuzzo wrote:
What is the sampling rate of the FLAC Channel?  Is it 44.1 kHz (as I suspect)?  Or is it 48 kHz?  The reason I'm asking is that I am trying to get bit-perfect streaming to my main stereo system and am trying to figure out the best device to use... I don't really expect to hear an audible difference but my geek side wants to have the purest audio path possible :-)

 
Almost all of source files (ripped from CDs, mostly) are 44.1, so it doesn't really make sense to use anything else. 

TonyApuzzo

TonyApuzzo Avatar

Location: Boulder, CO


Posted: Dec 28, 2018 - 12:52pm

What is the sampling rate of the FLAC Channel?  Is it 44.1 kHz (as I suspect)?  Or is it 48 kHz?  The reason I'm asking is that I am trying to get bit-perfect streaming to my main stereo system and am trying to figure out the best device to use... I don't really expect to hear an audible difference but my geek side wants to have the purest audio path possible :-)

westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Dec 15, 2018 - 8:55am



 BillG wrote:


 westslope wrote:
Some feedback and a question.

I listened to the streamng FLAC the other day on the new (beta) site.  It was good. 
..................

I find it to be a bit more open and clearly defined, with a very solid bottom end. But I'll bet I'd flunk a blind a/b test a lot of the time. 


 
I know I would flunk a blind test!  I will have to retry with headphones.  My hearing ain't great but I can still hear a pin drop in the bush at 80 metres.

Thanks Bill! 

In passing, the slide shows that accompany the web player are simply mindblowing.   The overall quality of the photography is top notch.   I often put the web-player/slide show on the HTPC system during dinner parties.

csutto

csutto Avatar



Posted: Dec 13, 2018 - 10:29pm


Thanks for your quick reply Bill.  RP is second to none.  No other station has excited me with the music played, since CFNY in Toronto in the early 80's (before they caved to commercialism). 

RP is clearly superior in that it’s not just “what great “new” music am I going to learn today”,  but what new music will I learn and what older music did I miss  and from which genre, all beautifully mixed. 


BillG wrote:


 csutto wrote:
I’m listening to RP through the iOS app and have my phone connected to a Chord Mojo dac. Regardless of which bitrate I select (low to flac), there is no audible difference and the Mojo bitrate indicator displays red (44k).

Just wondering if Im missing something or if this is correct?

Newbie
 

The current iOS app doesn't immediately update the audio when you change nitrates (the android app does, as does our new web player — & the next iOS version). You can force a change via PSD -> sync to web stream. 

44. 1 is the sample rate, which is an entirely separate thing.

44.1 k is the standard sample rate for CDs & 99% of the available digital recordings. Even if you're using a player capable of much higher resolution, chances are that the source material you're listening to is a 44.1k 16bit master.  

 


BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 13, 2018 - 8:39pm



 westslope wrote:
Some feedback and a question.

I listened to the streamng FLAC the other day on the new (beta) site.  It was good. 

But frankly, I could not tell the difference with the 320k AAC stream which I have been using for a long time now.  The description on the web-site — "truly awesome sound quality" — is accurate.

I listened to the FLAC stream on a 2.1 system.  


So out of curiosity, what difference with the 320k AAC stream should I hear on the FLAC stream?  
 

The difference between 320k AAC & FLAC is very subtle. Not audible at all on a lot of material, and audible only on very good equipment in any circumstances. 

I find it to be a bit more open and clearly defined, with a very solid bottom end. But I'll bet I'd flunk a blind a/b test a lot of the time. 


BillG

BillG Avatar

Location: Left Coast
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 13, 2018 - 8:34pm



 csutto wrote:
I’m listening to RP through the iOS app and have my phone connected to a Chord Mojo dac. Regardless of which bitrate I select (low to flac), there is no audible difference and the Mojo bitrate indicator displays red (44k).

Just wondering if Im missing something or if this is correct?

Newbie
 

The current iOS app doesn't immediately update the audio when you change nitrates (the android app does, as does our new web player — & the next iOS version). You can force a change via PSD -> sync to web stream. 

44. 1 is the sample rate, which is an entirely separate thing.

44.1 k is the standard sample rate for CDs & 99% of the available digital recordings. Even if you're using a player capable of much higher resolution, chances are that the source material you're listening to is a 44.1k 16bit master.  
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