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haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 16, 2019 - 11:40pm



 kurtster wrote:


 haresfur wrote:

Barnaby Joyce says sun's magnetic fields cause bushfires. Science says...

"We can measure the energy we get from the sun, and it does have a natural variability. But it’s very small, and it has not shown any long-term trend over the past century, when we have seen this dramatic warming.

"It is clearly not one of the factors that has caused this warming."

 


You are obviously not reading what I have been posting. I have only been talking about the earth's magnetic field, not the sun's.

No worries though. There is no point to move forward with as you are 100% sure that CO² is the only factor responsible for both Global Warming and Climate Change and is 100% settled science.

Your mind is made up and totally closed to any possibility of other factors that could have an influence.

So if we do lower the amount of CO² in the earth's atmosphere we must watch out for the danger of triggering an ice age, which would be much more devastating than warming.


 
And another thing


I didn't say anything about being 100% sure that CO2 is the only factor responsible for climate change. I did say that for any of your claims to be worth considering, you need to come up with a physical mechanism that would link the earth's magnetic field motion to climate effects before it is worth considering as a possible factor. Otherwise it is just throwing stuff against the wall hoping something sticks. Aside from a mechanism, it would also have to correlate with the temporal trends and be backed up by measurements or models.

And yes, there are other factors such as methane and sulfur hexafluoride, but they are not as important. Methane is particularly troubling though, because the release from melting permafrost is going to have a large effect on atmospheric concentrations. 
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 16, 2019 - 7:59am



 kurtster wrote:


Your unsolicited interjections into ongoing conversations always raise the level of discourse.  By the way, degrees do not measure linear distance.  Just saying ...
 

You're really good at sarcasm. 
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 15, 2019 - 8:41pm

Degree:

  1. An individual step, or stage, in any process or scale of values.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 15, 2019 - 8:17pm



 islander wrote:


 haresfur wrote:


 kurtster wrote:


 haresfur wrote:

Barnaby Joyce says sun's magnetic fields cause bushfires. Science says...

"We can measure the energy we get from the sun, and it does have a natural variability. But it’s very small, and it has not shown any long-term trend over the past century, when we have seen this dramatic warming.

"It is clearly not one of the factors that has caused this warming."

 


You are obviously not reading what I have been posting. I have only been talking about the earth's magnetic field, not the sun's.

No worries though. There is no point to move forward with as you are 100% sure that CO² is the only factor responsible for both Global Warming and Climate Change and is 100% settled science.

Your mind is made up and totally closed to any possibility of other factors that could have an influence.

So if we do lower the amount of CO² in the earth's atmosphere we must watch out for the danger of triggering an ice age, which would be much more devastating than warming.


 
Just pointing out that you aren't the only one coming up with random bizarre concepts that have no bearing on reality. You say the earth's magnetic field has been changing but there is no scientific mechanism which relates the changes to climate. The timescale isn't even the same with the magnetic pole motion only increasing rapidly in the past few years. My point, as I said below, which you apparently didn't read - you need to come up with a mechanism where greenhouse gases are not responsible given the scientific understanding of how and why they act to warm the planet. 

The thought that stopping adding to the CO2 released to the atmosphere will spin us into an ice age is pretty hilarious. Maybe you should read up on global geochemical cycles and residence times. Tell you what, leave the hydrocarbons in the ground and if, in a few hundred years, the world, starts heading into an ice age, feel free to start burning them again.

On the other hand your ice age idea does seem to indicate that you admit that greenhouse gases are causing significant global climate change. So I suppose that's a start.

 


islander wrote:So Haresfur is going to fly into a rage (We can speculate why, but it's really impossible to tell) and search you out. He's going to lash you to a chair and then proceed to use his amazing ambidextrous skills and two sets of garden sheers to cut off the end of your fingernail one one hand, and your whole finger on the other hand. We are all outside the door and ready to burst in and stop him. But since he has such skill we can probably only grab one of his arms. Would you prefer we stop the fingernail side, or the finger side? They are pretty much the same, just different by a matter of degrees right? Maybe we should just debate it for a while, since something is probably going to happen anyway.

and then you wrote:

Cut him at the knuckle, it's a fair compromise.
 

Your unsolicited interjections into ongoing conversations always raise the level of discourse.  By the way, degrees do not measure linear distance.  Just saying ...
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 14, 2019 - 9:07pm



 haresfur wrote:


 kurtster wrote:


 haresfur wrote:

Barnaby Joyce says sun's magnetic fields cause bushfires. Science says...

"We can measure the energy we get from the sun, and it does have a natural variability. But it’s very small, and it has not shown any long-term trend over the past century, when we have seen this dramatic warming.

"It is clearly not one of the factors that has caused this warming."

 


You are obviously not reading what I have been posting. I have only been talking about the earth's magnetic field, not the sun's.

No worries though. There is no point to move forward with as you are 100% sure that CO² is the only factor responsible for both Global Warming and Climate Change and is 100% settled science.

Your mind is made up and totally closed to any possibility of other factors that could have an influence.

So if we do lower the amount of CO² in the earth's atmosphere we must watch out for the danger of triggering an ice age, which would be much more devastating than warming.


 
Just pointing out that you aren't the only one coming up with random bizarre concepts that have no bearing on reality. You say the earth's magnetic field has been changing but there is no scientific mechanism which relates the changes to climate. The timescale isn't even the same with the magnetic pole motion only increasing rapidly in the past few years. My point, as I said below, which you apparently didn't read - you need to come up with a mechanism where greenhouse gases are not responsible given the scientific understanding of how and why they act to warm the planet. 

The thought that stopping adding to the CO2 released to the atmosphere will spin us into an ice age is pretty hilarious. Maybe you should read up on global geochemical cycles and residence times. Tell you what, leave the hydrocarbons in the ground and if, in a few hundred years, the world, starts heading into an ice age, feel free to start burning them again.

On the other hand your ice age idea does seem to indicate that you admit that greenhouse gases are causing significant global climate change. So I suppose that's a start.

 

Cut him at the knuckle, it's a fair compromise.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 14, 2019 - 8:49pm



 kurtster wrote:


 haresfur wrote:

Barnaby Joyce says sun's magnetic fields cause bushfires. Science says...

"We can measure the energy we get from the sun, and it does have a natural variability. But it’s very small, and it has not shown any long-term trend over the past century, when we have seen this dramatic warming.

"It is clearly not one of the factors that has caused this warming."

 


You are obviously not reading what I have been posting. I have only been talking about the earth's magnetic field, not the sun's.

No worries though. There is no point to move forward with as you are 100% sure that CO² is the only factor responsible for both Global Warming and Climate Change and is 100% settled science.

Your mind is made up and totally closed to any possibility of other factors that could have an influence.

So if we do lower the amount of CO² in the earth's atmosphere we must watch out for the danger of triggering an ice age, which would be much more devastating than warming.


 
Just pointing out that you aren't the only one coming up with random bizarre concepts that have no bearing on reality. You say the earth's magnetic field has been changing but there is no scientific mechanism which relates the changes to climate. The timescale isn't even the same with the magnetic pole motion only increasing rapidly in the past few years. My point, as I said below, which you apparently didn't read - you need to come up with a mechanism where greenhouse gases are not responsible given the scientific understanding of how and why they act to warm the planet. 

The thought that stopping adding to the CO2 released to the atmosphere will spin us into an ice age is pretty hilarious. Maybe you should read up on global geochemical cycles and residence times. Tell you what, leave the hydrocarbons in the ground and if, in a few hundred years, the world, starts heading into an ice age, feel free to start burning them again.

On the other hand your ice age idea does seem to indicate that you admit that greenhouse gases are causing significant global climate change. So I suppose that's a start.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 14, 2019 - 4:46pm

 islander wrote:
So Haresfur is going to fly into a rage (We can speculate why, but it's really impossible to tell) and search you out. He's going to lash you to a chair and then proceed to use his amazing ambidextrous skills and two sets of  garden sheers to cut off the end of your fingernail  one one hand, and your whole finger on the other hand.  We are all outside the door and ready to burst in and stop him. But since he has such skill we can probably only grab one of his arms. Would you prefer we stop the fingernail side, or the finger side?  They are pretty much the same, just different by a matter of degrees right?  Maybe we should just debate it for a while, since something is probably going to happen anyway. 
 
You need better drugs.
.
islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 14, 2019 - 2:47pm



 kurtster wrote:


 haresfur wrote:

Barnaby Joyce says sun's magnetic fields cause bushfires. Science says...

"We can measure the energy we get from the sun, and it does have a natural variability. But it’s very small, and it has not shown any long-term trend over the past century, when we have seen this dramatic warming.

"It is clearly not one of the factors that has caused this warming."

 


You are obviously not reading what I have been posting. I have only been talking about the earth's magnetic field, not the sun's.

No worries though. There is no point to move forward with as you are 100% sure that CO² is the only factor responsible for both Global Warming and Climate Change and is 100% settled science.

Your mind is made up and totally closed to any possibility of other factors that could have an influence.

So if we do lower the amount of CO² in the earth's atmosphere we must watch out for the danger of triggering an ice age, which would be much more devastating than warming.


 

So Haresfur is going to fly into a rage (We can speculate why, but it's really impossible to tell) and search you out. He's going to lash you to a chair and then proceed to use his amazing ambidextrous skills and two sets of  garden sheers to cut off the end of your fingernail  one one hand, and your whole finger on the other hand.  We are all outside the door and ready to burst in and stop him. But since he has such skill we can probably only grab one of his arms. Would you prefer we stop the fingernail side, or the finger side?  They are pretty much the same, just different by a matter of degrees right?  Maybe we should just debate it for a while, since something is probably going to happen anyway. 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 14, 2019 - 2:27pm



 haresfur wrote:

Barnaby Joyce says sun's magnetic fields cause bushfires. Science says...

"We can measure the energy we get from the sun, and it does have a natural variability. But it’s very small, and it has not shown any long-term trend over the past century, when we have seen this dramatic warming.

"It is clearly not one of the factors that has caused this warming."

 


You are obviously not reading what I have been posting. I have only been talking about the earth's magnetic field, not the sun's.

No worries though. There is no point to move forward with as you are 100% sure that CO² is the only factor responsible for both Global Warming and Climate Change and is 100% settled science.

Your mind is made up and totally closed to any possibility of other factors that could have an influence.

So if we do lower the amount of CO² in the earth's atmosphere we must watch out for the danger of triggering an ice age, which would be much more devastating than warming.


haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 14, 2019 - 9:35am

Barnaby Joyce says sun's magnetic fields cause bushfires. Science says...

"We can measure the energy we get from the sun, and it does have a natural variability. But it’s very small, and it has not shown any long-term trend over the past century, when we have seen this dramatic warming.

"It is clearly not one of the factors that has caused this warming."

haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 13, 2019 - 12:49am



 kurtster wrote:


 haresfur wrote:



the thing is, there is no physical mechanism by which the changes in the earth's magnetic field could have a significant effect on the climate. by bringing it up, you are simply trying to deflect from the demonstrated mechanism. bottom line, you continue to deny the human impact on climate

sorry about the broken shift key
 

The atmosphere is composed of much more than just gases. It is also charged particles and their circulation within the atmosphere is most definitely affected by changes in radiation and magnetism, i.e. the jet stream. That is a physical system / mechanism, the movement of charged particles independent of the composition of gases present.

If not then what is responsible for the winds aloft ? Bovine flatulence ?




 
The point is that the changes in radiation and magnetism have insignificant effect on climate change. But, as usual, you continue to avoid coming up with any mechanism where anthropogenic increases in greenhouse gases would not be causing climate change.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 12, 2019 - 9:21pm



 haresfur wrote:



the thing is, there is no physical mechanism by which the changes in the earth's magnetic field could have a significant effect on the climate. by bringing it up, you are simply trying to deflect from the demonstrated mechanism. bottom line, you continue to deny the human impact on climate

sorry about the broken shift key
 

The atmosphere is composed of much more than just gases. It is also charged particles and their circulation within the atmosphere is most definitely affected by changes in radiation and magnetism, i.e. the jet stream. That is a physical system / mechanism, the movement of charged particles independent of the composition of gases present.

If not then what is responsible for the winds aloft ? Bovine flatulence ?




haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 12, 2019 - 7:58pm



 kurtster wrote:
 

the thing is, there is no physical mechanism by which the changes in the earth's magnetic field could have a significant effect on the climate. by bringing it up, you are simply trying to deflect from the demonstrated mechanism. bottom line, you continue to deny the human impact on climate

sorry about the broken shift key
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 12, 2019 - 6:37pm

 Isabeau wrote:


 haresfur wrote:

 kurtster wrote:


I'm surprised no one has jumped on your mention of natural causes for changing climate patterns. I've mentioned all the things that you have more than a couple of times and I immediately get responses calling me a denier. Part of why I let this sit for awhile.

Earth’s Magnetic Field Shifts, Forcing Airport Runway Change

And the fields are also dramatically weakening which allows much more radiation to reach deeper into our atmosphere and the surface.
 
 

The shift in the earth's magnetic field has nothing to do with global warming. Nor does any change in its field strength. There is no physical mechanism where the level of change would cause the level of climate effect. And if it did, it would be in addition to the anthropogenic change.

Burning hydrocarbons releases CO2. The increase in CO2 in the atmosphere has been measured for decades and is consistent with the amount of CO2 released from burning. CO2 has a known, measured effect on trapping solar radiation and leads to an increase in temperature consistent with theory. Until, you come up with a mechanism that would explain how CO2 could not be causing global warming, you are just blowing smoke out your butt.
 

Agreed on all points. However, shifting poles DO affect the jet stream, wind patterns and the El Nino conditions. That is NOT to say that has anything to do with CO2 buildup, which is definitely facilitated by humankind. I'm merely suggesting that a polar shift, in addition to climate change, has exacerbated the issue.
 
And to what extent the changes of the earth's magnetic field have exacerbated the changes we are observing.

And that is what is wrong with the whole debate.  No one is allowed to say that there may be other natural occurring affects contributing to Climate Change and Global Warming.  It is only CO² that is allowed to be discussed.  Climate Change and Global Warming are two separate issues, imo.  One does not necessarily explain the other.

I have never argued that the global climate is not changing just what may be the causes; causes other than CO².  Instead of acknowledging that there may be some natural causes involved, I promptly get canceled as a denier.  So who is denying science here ?

Anyway, thanks for having the courage to bring this up.

Isabeau

Isabeau Avatar

Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Nov 11, 2019 - 6:46am



 haresfur wrote:


 

The shift in the earth's magnetic field has nothing to do with global warming. Nor does any change in its field strength. There is no physical mechanism where the level of change would cause the level of climate effect. And if it did, it would be in addition to the anthropogenic change.

Burning hydrocarbons releases CO2. The increase in CO2 in the atmosphere has been measured for decades and is consistent with the amount of CO2 released from burning. CO2 has a known, measured effect on trapping solar radiation and leads to an increase in temperature consistent with theory. Until, you come up with a mechanism that would explain how CO2 could not be causing global warming, you are just blowing smoke out your butt.
 

Agreed on all points. However, shifting poles DO affect the jet stream, wind patternsand the El Nino conditions. That is NOT to say that has anything to do with CO2 buildup, which is definitely facilitated by humankind. I'm merely suggesting that a polar shift, in addition to climate change, has exacerbated the issue.
whatshisname

whatshisname Avatar

Location: West OZ


Posted: Nov 11, 2019 - 4:01am

Crazily around the world communities still remain divided, usually along political lines, for or against the climate change discussion .Meanwhile the stats are building up at an alarming rate. These near on daily accounts of radical weather variations are the alarm bells many wish to ignore.
The big hammer hit will come once the insurance industry (aka the worlds financial system) turns to dust after the mother of all fires/hurricanes/floods takes out much of somewhere like Europe or North America.
Then in the ensuing panic, are we going see the wheels fall off boys and girls.
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 10, 2019 - 6:19pm

This is not normal: what's different about the NSW mega fires


In NSW, our worst fire years were almost always during an El Nino event, and major property losses generally occurred from late November to February. Based on more than a century of weather observations our official fire danger season is legislated from October 1 to March 31. During the 2000s though, major fires have regularly started in August and September, and sometimes go through to April.

The October 2013 fires that destroyed more than 200 homes were the earliest large-loss fires in NSW history – again, not during an El Nino.

This year, by the beginning of November, we had already lost about as many homes as during the disastrous 2001-2002 bushfire season. We’ve now eclipsed 1994 fire losses.

haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 10, 2019 - 1:19pm



 kurtster wrote:


I'm surprised no one has jumped on your mention of natural causes for changing climate patterns. I've mentioned all the things that you have more than a couple of times and I immediately get responses calling me a denier. Part of why I let this sit for awhile.

Earth’s Magnetic Field Shifts, Forcing Airport Runway Change

And the fields are also dramatically weakening which allows much more radiation to reach deeper into our atmosphere and the surface.


 

The shift in the earth's magnetic field has nothing to do with global warming. Nor does any change in its field strength. There is no physical mechanism where the level of change would cause the level of climate effect. And if it did, it would be in addition to the anthropogenic change.

Burning hydrocarbons releases CO2. The increase in CO2 in the atmosphere has been measured for decades and is consistent with the amount of CO2 released from burning. CO2 has a known, measured effect on trapping solar radiation and leads to an increase in temperature consistent with theory. Until, you come up with a mechanism that would explain how CO2 could not be causing global warming, you are just blowing smoke out your butt.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Nov 10, 2019 - 1:14pm

 Lazy8 wrote:
The ecosystem adjusts to find a new equilibrium if you let it.
 
Except when it does not.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 10, 2019 - 10:24am

westslope wrote:
Apologies for the feral pig invasion from Canada's prairie provinces.  I suppose our winters are insufficiently cold.  Europe is much farther advanced in the feral pig invasion and it is not pretty.  Time to offer a bounty to qualified, licensed hunters?   Likely only poison and introduced diseases will eradicate these pests.  The cuteness factor will render radical solutions politically impossible.

Invasive species generally can't be eradicated, they can only be controlled. The ecosystem adjusts to find a new equilibrium if you let it.

You don't have to pay hunters, they'll pay you. And feral hogs are only cute until they tear up your crops.
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