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Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Immigration Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 20, 21, 22  Next
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ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2019 - 7:40am



 Lazy8 wrote:
ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Unrelated, I'm sure it's just me but the decades of complaining that immigrants are going to take our jobs... now they're talking about only letting people in based on "merit," i.e.: only if they actually prove themselves able to take our jobs.

Even NPR was describing the latest turn of the wheel as a "positive" proposal. This appalls me; it's a vast social engineering scheme where the executive branch of the government gets to decide what kinds of people we need to add to the country. Not based on character or potential or empathy or creativity or ambition or any of a million other characteristics that can't be measured, but by...training.

We aren't talking about expanding the pathetically tiny quotas we have now. These are being accepted as the natural order of the universe, the baseline from which we restrict further.

I could question the legitimacy of adding a further hoop to the  process. I could question the competence of the executive branch of the US government to decide what trades we will need from here out—people live a long time, circumstances and technology and economies evolve and demand for labor changes over time. I could question the understanding of history that makes someone think that leaving desperate people adrift —that we, in the luxury liner, don't have a human obligation to rescue the shipwrecked—is an acceptable, even laudable policy objective. I could do all that. I doubt it would even make a dent.

So let me do this instead: yo, MAGAnauts! Do you think you make a net positive contribution to our society? You do, right? Your unique contribution is valuable on many levels...right?

Right?

Would this policy let you in?

Would it let your mother in?

Let that sink in. All the way in.
 

Most of our ancestors were, literally, outcasts. So the answer to your questions is clearly no.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 22, 2019 - 6:56am

ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Unrelated, I'm sure it's just me but the decades of complaining that immigrants are going to take our jobs... now they're talking about only letting people in based on "merit," i.e.: only if they actually prove themselves able to take our jobs.

Even NPR was describing the latest turn of the wheel as a "positive" proposal. This appalls me; it's a vast social engineering scheme where the executive branch of the government gets to decide what kinds of people we need to add to the country. Not based on character or potential or empathy or creativity or ambition or any of a million other characteristics that can't be measured, but by...training.

We aren't talking about expanding the pathetically tiny quotas we have now. These are being accepted as the natural order of the universe, the baseline from which we restrict further.

I could question the legitimacy of adding a further hoop to the  process. I could question the competence of the executive branch of the US government to decide what trades we will need from here out—people live a long time, circumstances and technology and economies evolve and demand for labor changes over time. I could question the understanding of history that makes someone think that leaving desperate people adrift —that we, in the luxury liner, don't have a human obligation to rescue the shipwrecked—is an acceptable, even laudable policy objective. I could do all that. I doubt it would even make a dent.

So let me do this instead: yo, MAGAnauts! Do you think you make a net positive contribution to our society? You do, right? Your unique contribution is valuable on many levels...right?

Right?

Would this policy let you in?

Would it let your mother in?

Let that sink in. All the way in.
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: May 21, 2019 - 9:29am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Those are both good articles, thanks.

==============

Unrelated, I'm sure it's just me but the decades of complaining that immigrants are going to take our jobs... now they're talking about only letting people in based on "merit," i.e.: only if they actually prove themselves able to take our jobs.
 
I'm sure this image has been here at some point, but:

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: May 21, 2019 - 9:24am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Those are both good articles, thanks.

==============

Unrelated, I'm sure it's just me but the decades of complaining that immigrants are going to take our jobs... now they're talking about only letting people in based on "merit," i.e.: only if they actually prove themselves able to take our jobs.

 
i was thinking the same thing on that latter point. 
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 21, 2019 - 9:18am

Those are both good articles, thanks.

==============

Unrelated, I'm sure it's just me but the decades of complaining that immigrants are going to take our jobs... now they're talking about only letting people in based on "merit," i.e.: only if they actually prove themselves able to take our jobs.
Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: May 20, 2019 - 9:09pm

Our behavior in the days before WW2 was shameful.

It's shameful now.

The Heartbreaking, Lifesaving Practice of Welcoming 'Unaccompanied' Child Migrants

A history lesson for Americans


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: May 20, 2019 - 11:19am

It's the shape of the skull...
Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Oroville, Ca
Gender: Male


Posted: May 19, 2019 - 2:29pm








 Lazy8 wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Ok. We now have open borders. Anyone can come in for any reason. How do we manage it ? How do we manage uncontrolled growth without unlimited resources ?

The point is not to manage it, as we did for long stretches of our history—and still do.

There is an open border between the state of Washington and the state of Oregon. Different laws on both sides, different tax structures, different minimum wage laws, different drivers license tests. You can cross between them any time you want—even if to do so is sometimes a crime, as in when you're on parole or under indictment. If you break a law in Oregon and flee to Washington the police in Washington will (usually) catch you and send you back, even if you are a Washington resident. If you live in one state and work in another (as I do) there are straightforward ways to sort out the taxes. Ditto with insurance, professional licensing, child support and alimony, college tuition...an endless list. It's not that hard.

Mean annual household income is about $10K/year less in Oregon than in Washington—yet Oregon has not emptied into Washington, just as Mexico hasn't emptied into the US, despite it being so easy—no big beautiful wall in the way! They can just walk right in! Hoards of them—rapists, drug dealers, the works!

If you really want to see your concerns addressed in detail I suppose you could read the book, but I'll do my best while I'm stealing an Oregonian's job while collecting unemployment and living off welfare. Was there anything else I was supposed to be doing? Oh yeah—raping and dealing drugs. Dammit, knew I was forgetting something! Maybe next post.
Wasn't urban planning the great lesson learned from the uncontrolled growth of the 60's and 70's; the urban sprawl that came without planning and infrastructure to make it work
properly.

One of the lessons we learned in the '60s and '70s was how seldom urban planners get it right and how often (and how disastrously) they get it wrong, but we're not talking about where to cite shopping centers or how much parking to require around a roller skating rink. These are not remotely similar disciplines but even if they were I wouldn't trust them to make the right calls here.
There is that nasty little 4 letter word that no one wants to use ... PLAN. Planning takes time and coordination of people, property and resources. There is an old saying that I still use when
appropriate ... piss poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.Ever heard that one before ?

I saw it on a bumper sticker. I was recommending an actual book, but feel free to find reference material that's meaningful to you.
A utopia requires a closed system to protect it.  A welfare state requires a closed system in order to work properly due to finite resources.  So we let in anyone to come and take from us what ever they want without investing and then move on to greener pastures when the proverbial well runs dry and leave the locals who built up everything behind and suffering ?  How do you say no to anything when you have open borders ?  How do you deal with people who want to cause harm ?  How do you deal with the infirmed, the disabled, the uneducated who show up and say take care of me ? 

These are not rhetorical questions.  How about some answers ?  If you want open borders, you'd better have the answers.

Proclaiming opens borders is the same thing as inviting the Vampire into your house.  I happened to be working on the following song when I took a break and came over here to take a peak at the RAFT.

If you want a utopian solution then yes, these are rhetorical questions. There are no utopian solutions.

Some of these problems don't have solutions because they are imaginary, the product of a fevered paranoia about foreigners that seems to be built into the human psyche. That flock-of-ravenous-locusts thing, for instance. We can actually measure things like a propensity toward criminal behavior and we have. Over and over. Immigrants are no more likely than natives to commit crimes (except undocumented immigrants: they are significantly less likely to commit crimes). How do we deal with criminals? Same way we do now: arrest, prosecution, imprisonment.

Funny how nativists always seem to grow an affection for the welfare state when they think foreigners might use it. Foreign nationals not on a citizenship track (non-green-card holders) are not eligible for any federal assistance...even tho (if they are working) they are paying for it. This would be a great incentive for them to buy private insurance...if they were allowed to.

This isn't a new phenomenon. The US was built by waves of immigration, always met with a nativist opposition. My ancestors certainly were—with their swarthy complexions, their incomprehensible language, their terrifying foreign religion, their filthy habits and disgusting foods smelling up the place. I bet yours were too. There is no way to prove that this time you're wrong about how it will turn out...but you (the people barring the door to newcomers) always have been.

Every single time.

But you don't get off the hook so easily either. If you want to maintain and extend a system that causes real human suffering and stands in the way of real people improving their lives you need to justify it.  Make your case. Justify standing in the way of people trying to improve their lives. Justify locking them (and their children) in cages.

But don't just justify it to me, justify it to your own ancestors. Put the same barriers in front of them and see if they make it in. See if their descendants get to survive the bigotry and hostility...only to assimilate and be welcomed to man the barricades against the next set.

I realize that emotional appeals to our basest fears are hard to counter with actual data. That requires reading and interpreting said data. All those words! And numbers! I also realize that the comprehensive approach I want has virtually no chance of happening, but I have to do my part to shift the Overton Window far enough to make room for even the most modest reform.
 


 


miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: May 19, 2019 - 5:30am



Today's Anti-Immigration Script Was Written 100 Years Ago by America's Elite

Reason's Nick Gillespie talks to Historian Daniel Okrent whose new book, The Guarded Gate, recounts the history of bigotry, eugenics, and the "intellectual justification" of anti-immigration policies.



Nfld_Waterwitch

Nfld_Waterwitch Avatar

Location: Granite Rock in the Atlantic
Gender: Female


Posted: Apr 25, 2019 - 8:10am


I really enjoyed this. Great points well said. Educational as well.


 Lazy8 wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Ok. We now have open borders. Anyone can come in for any reason. How do we manage it ? How do we manage uncontrolled growth without unlimited resources ?

The point is not to manage it, as we did for long stretches of our history—and still do.

There is an open border between the state of Washington and the state of Oregon. Different laws on both sides, different tax structures, different minimum wage laws, different drivers license tests. You can cross between them any time you want—even if to do so is sometimes a crime, as in when you're on parole or under indictment. If you break a law in Oregon and flee to Washington the police in Washington will (usually) catch you and send you back, even if you are a Washington resident. If you live in one state and work in another (as I do) there are straightforward ways to sort out the taxes. Ditto with insurance, professional licensing, child support and alimony, college tuition...an endless list. It's not that hard.

Mean annual household income is about $10K/year less in Oregon than in Washington—yet Oregon has not emptied into Washington, just as Mexico hasn't emptied into the US, despite it being so easy—no big beautiful wall in the way! They can just walk right in! Hoards of them—rapists, drug dealers, the works!

If you really want to see your concerns addressed in detail I suppose you could read the book, but I'll do my best while I'm stealing an Oregonian's job while collecting unemployment and living off welfare. Was there anything else I was supposed to be doing? Oh yeah—raping and dealing drugs. Dammit, knew I was forgetting something! Maybe next post.
Wasn't urban planning the great lesson learned from the uncontrolled growth of the 60's and 70's; the urban sprawl that came without planning and infrastructure to make it work
properly.

One of the lessons we learned in the '60s and '70s was how seldom urban planners get it right and how often (and how disastrously) they get it wrong, but we're not talking about where to cite shopping centers or how much parking to require around a roller skating rink. These are not remotely similar disciplines but even if they were I wouldn't trust them to make the right calls here.
There is that nasty little 4 letter word that no one wants to use ... PLAN. Planning takes time and coordination of people, property and resources. There is an old saying that I still use when
appropriate ... piss poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.Ever heard that one before ?

I saw it on a bumper sticker. I was recommending an actual book, but feel free to find reference material that's meaningful to you.
A utopia requires a closed system to protect it.  A welfare state requires a closed system in order to work properly due to finite resources.  So we let in anyone to come and take from us what ever they want without investing and then move on to greener pastures when the proverbial well runs dry and leave the locals who built up everything behind and suffering ?  How do you say no to anything when you have open borders ?  How do you deal with people who want to cause harm ?  How do you deal with the infirmed, the disabled, the uneducated who show up and say take care of me ? 

These are not rhetorical questions.  How about some answers ?  If you want open borders, you'd better have the answers.

Proclaiming opens borders is the same thing as inviting the Vampire into your house.  I happened to be working on the following song when I took a break and came over here to take a peak at the RAFT.

If you want a utopian solution then yes, these are rhetorical questions. There are no utopian solutions.

Some of these problems don't have solutions because they are imaginary, the product of a fevered paranoia about foreigners that seems to be built into the human psyche. That flock-of-ravenous-locusts thing, for instance. We can actually measure things like a propensity toward criminal behavior and we have. Over and over. Immigrants are no more likely than natives to commit crimes (except undocumented immigrants: they are significantly less likely to commit crimes). How do we deal with criminals? Same way we do now: arrest, prosecution, imprisonment.

Funny how nativists always seem to grow an affection for the welfare state when they think foreigners might use it. Foreign nationals not on a citizenship track (non-green-card holders) are not eligible for any federal assistance...even tho (if they are working) they are paying for it. This would be a great incentive for them to buy private insurance...if they were allowed to.

This isn't a new phenomenon. The US was built by waves of immigration, always met with a nativist opposition. My ancestors certainly were—with their swarthy complexions, their incomprehensible language, their terrifying foreign religion, their filthy habits and disgusting foods smelling up the place. I bet yours were too. There is no way to prove that this time you're wrong about how it will turn out...but you (the people barring the door to newcomers) always have been.

Every single time.

But you don't get off the hook so easily either. If you want to maintain and extend a system that causes real human suffering and stands in the way of real people improving their lives you need to justify it.  Make your case. Justify standing in the way of people trying to improve their lives. Justify locking them (and their children) in cages.

But don't just justify it to me, justify it to your own ancestors. Put the same barriers in front of them and see if they make it in. See if their descendants get to survive the bigotry and hostility...only to assimilate and be welcomed to man the barricades against the next set.

I realize that emotional appeals to our basest fears are hard to counter with actual data. That requires reading and interpreting said data. All those words! And numbers! I also realize that the comprehensive approach I want has virtually no chance of happening, but I have to do my part to shift the Overton Window far enough to make room for even the most modest reform.
 


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 22, 2019 - 12:10pm


islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 16, 2019 - 7:50am



 kurtster wrote:

As do I.  I believe I mentioned something similar to this over the years in my rants about Sanctuary Cities, but no matter.

Yep, send them to SF in particular and the Bay Area in general, which includes San José (otherwise known as Silicone Valley).  They were the first to declare themselves SC's and embrace the arrival and protection of illegal immigrants and open defiance of the Federal government and the laws of the land.  Where better for these people ?  This area is one of the wealthiest in the US and self declared most compassionate places in the US when it comes to the plight of the impoverished and downtrodden.  The weather is also more agreeable than say somewhere in the Midwest.  These people have never seen winter.  Exposing them to winter would be cruel and unusual punishment, imho.  The City of San Francisco has even given illegals the right to vote in local elections several years ago.  No place is more prepared to deal with illegals than the SF Bay Area and the State of California in general.  1 million new arrivals right before the 2020 Census will also give California another Congressional seat !  It's a win win !  As you mentioned, one of the underlying yet constantly denied motivations is to increase the Democratic Party voting base.  Better to keep it contained in one place though where the new constituency voice will not be watered down and hold the D's feet to the fire of their own making.

As someone born and raised in the SF Bay Area (and a refugee from), I approve !


 

So, either you've had a change of heart and now agree that immigrants can be a potential benefit to their new settlement region, or you think that they will cause so many problems for your perceived political enemies that you are willing to waffle on your previously stated core belief that borders matter and this is the most important thing.

I know which one I think applies, and I know what it implies about your character.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 15, 2019 - 8:59pm



 kurtster wrote:
It just ain't that simple.

You and your pale blue dot can bite me.
 
Forgive if I am wrong but I think that is precisely what it is doing.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 15, 2019 - 7:57pm

It just ain't that simple.

You and your pale blue dot can bite me.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Apr 15, 2019 - 7:04pm




kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 15, 2019 - 6:46pm


 Lazy8 wrote:
kurtster wrote:
Ok. We now have open borders. Anyone can come in for any reason. How do we manage it ? How do we manage uncontrolled growth without unlimited resources ?

The point is not to manage it, as we did for long stretches of our history—and still do.

There is an open border between the state of Washington and the state of Oregon. Different laws on both sides, different tax structures, different minimum wage laws, different drivers license tests. You can cross between them any time you want—even if to do so is sometimes a crime, as in when you're on parole or under indictment. If you break a law in Oregon and flee to Washington the police in Washington will (usually) catch you and send you back, even if you are a Washington resident. If you live in one state and work in another (as I do) there are straightforward ways to sort out the taxes. Ditto with insurance, professional licensing, child support and alimony, college tuition...an endless list. It's not that hard.

Mean annual household income is about $10K/year less in Oregon than in Washington—yet Oregon has not emptied into Washington, just as Mexico hasn't emptied into the US, despite it being so easy—no big beautiful wall in the way! They can just walk right in! Hoards of them—rapists, drug dealers, the works!

If you really want to see your concerns addressed in detail I suppose you could read the book, but I'll do my best while I'm stealing an Oregonian's job while collecting unemployment and living off welfare. Was there anything else I was supposed to be doing? Oh yeah—raping and dealing drugs. Dammit, knew I was forgetting something! Maybe next post.st modest reform.

  
Manage is what you do with any system or operation.  Even with a solution, it still must be managed or administered by someone / thing.  Am I missing something ?

The situation your describe with Oregon and Washington exists and works because it is in a closed system, within the borders of the United States of America.  This arrangement does not extend beyond our borders.  It works because there is an agreement with the citizens that this is how things are to work.  There is not the same kind of relationship with other countries and their citizens.  Used to be all I needed to get to Mexico or Canada was my driver's license.  Now I need a passport.  Come 2020, I will have to prove I am a citizen in order to board a commercial airliner within the US.  I am losing these freedoms and other freedoms that I have known all my life.  If we open our borders will I regain these freedoms ?  I can once again presume that I am supposed to be here rather than have to prove it ?  That is if I want certain things.  Open borders removes the requirement for credentials altogether.  Do we get the same in return when we leave the USA ? 

Mexico hasn't emptied into our country because Mexicans simply get put back across the border when caught.  There is no court process, they go straight back.  That is the law.  The law is not the same for citizens of non contiguous countries.  In reality, Mexicans basically cross the border back and forth at will regardless of any laws.  There are many, many day workers that cross the border in the morning and return at night.  Mexicans are the least of our problems.  It is the country of Mexico that is the problem.  It encourages / allows migration through Mexico to the US in violation of its own laws.  Or at least it did until it faced the threat of a closed US border.

I have let this reply sit open for over a week now wondering how to state my thoughts properly.  All I seem to be doing is going in circles arguing the same old same old with the same old responses.  Yes life in the USA has changed in my lifetime, with simple basic freedoms lost forever, such as the freedom to travel within the US without question.  Used to be you could walk up to a ticket counter in an airport and say that you want a ticket to anywhere within the US, plop down your cash, get your ticket and hop on.  No ID, no questions, you could even give your ticket to someone else without a hassle. The only reason for having a fake ID was for underagers to try and buy alcohol or sneak into a bar or an R rated movie.  Didn't need any ID to get a job.  Just filled out the app listed your experience and two or three references and either you got hired or you didn't.  The systems in place worked and everyone present in the US was presumed to be here legally without any questions.  Simple unrecognized freedoms at the time provided by a properly working border and immigration system.  These basic freedoms are now long gone and will never be recovered.  For perspective, anyone under the age of 40 cannot even conceive of a US like this.  These personal freedoms were already lost by the time they came of age and largely because our border and immigration systems are totally broken and dysfunctional.  Can't lose something you never had ...

I was born when Truman was still POTUS and WW II was still large in the rear view mirror.  One of the major references to WW II that was commonly recognized was the expression, your papers please ...  It meant one thing and one thing only.  You were in a place where there were few, if any freedoms ...
But you don't get off the hook so easily either. If you want to maintain and extend a system that causes real human suffering and stands in the way of real people improving their lives you need to justify it.  Make your case. Justify standing in the way of people trying to improve their lives. Justify locking them (and their children) in cages.

But don't just justify it to me, justify it to your own ancestors. Put the same barriers in front of them and see if they make it in. See if their descendants get to survive the bigotry and hostility...only to assimilate and be welcomed to man the barricades against the next set.

I realize that emotional appeals to our basest fears are hard to counter with actual data. That requires reading and interpreting said data. All those words! And numbers! I also realize that the comprehensive approach I want has virtually no chance of happening, but I have to do my part to shift the Overton Window far enough to make room for even the most modest reform.

  
Having a working immigration system causes human suffering ?  Hmmm.  Well in some ways.  You're going to have to be more specific before I can even try to answer that.  My first thought is the 10 million or so who are waiting in line for up to 10 years to enter legally are suffering more than those who jump the line and come here on their own terms and expect to have everything handed to them.

My ancestors.  Right.  Every time I use that perspective, islander and some others come screaming in from nowhere and read me the riot act for even thinking that I have a right to argue from the perspective of my family heritage and how it has shaped my views of this country.  I am called bigoted and racist for even thinking that my heritage matters when discussing anything about this country.  There was bigotry within my own family.  When my parents got married in 1951, my Father's Mother did not attend their wedding because my Mother was not of English heritage.  My Father was 100% English and she is half Swedish with the rest being a mix of various western European ethnicities.  The family bloodline was broken and polluted by their union in my Grandmother's mind.  It caused problems for many years. 

A sidebar to the above ... next year will be the 400th anniversary of The Pilgrims arriving in Plymouth, Massachusetts and the first surviving permanent settlement of this country by Europeans.  My father's family arrived in Kennebunkport, Maine some 20 years later.  I cannot wait to hear how this is proclaimed to be a negative event in US and world history by the usual suspects.  I predict a vile denunciation of this event.

Data you say ?  There is no data that means anything other than what comes directly from the border itself.  You cannot even ask if someone is a citizen of this country, unless you wish to impose hardship on an actual citizen.  The numbers are so skewed as to be meaningless.  We are even arguing over asking the simple question on the 2020 Census, are you a US citizen ?  We have been saying for the past 20 years that there is roughly 20 million illegals present in the US.  I have a real hard time believing that number has remained constant and not increased over that time period.  Perhaps you can provide some insight.

You invoke the Overton Window, a term that I was unfamiliar with until you brought it up.  Evidently I have been using that approach myself in trying to have discussions on trying to define, discuss and come up with resolutions for dealing with illegal immigration.  I want our immigration system fixed, by Congress, as it should be, whatever the fix is.  Just do it and enforce it, whatever it ends up being.  Until then, enforce the laws we already have.  Isn't this how you approach gun laws (as do I) ... enforce the laws we already have before adding more that will never be enforced.  That is what I see Trump doing.  Enforcing the existing laws to show how ridiculous they are in order to bring about a real and meaningful fix to the problem.

Now I can post and close out this window, but not before I reply to sird's thoughts which essentially stole my thunder with his thoughts.  These will be posted simultaneously just to keep things simple, for me.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 15, 2019 - 6:46pm

 sirdroseph wrote:
 haresfur wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


this is a ridiculously bad idea

even attempting political punishment is just wrong

on the other hand, immigrants may be immigrating right out of those cities

but the san francisco bay area?

they're in pretty bad shape and would be difficult for someone with little or no resources to survive

it's one of the few places in the us a dog could step on a human turd

really sad
 

Better than keeping them incarcerated or dumping them in a Texas bus station 

 
It is, I think it is actually a brilliant idea.  Hard to believe Trump thought of it.{#Lol}  Seriously though, send them where they are actually wanted.  Make it very public to show the  migrants being generously transported to their new homes and give everyone a graphical idea of the numbers and let the "compassionate" take care of them.   Tongue is a bit in cheek of course, but apparently many of the mayors of these cities agree with me and say they would welcome them.  I think this is very noble of them actually and they are not being hypocritical by accepting the challenge.{#Clap}   They will never do this though too many people freaking out, using children as pawns they say.  I always thought using children as pawns was a prerequisite for politics, but hey anything to drum up some emotion=votes.  And speaking of votes, there is another dimension that the politicians are really thinking about and that is demographics.  Democrats would prefer random infiltration evenly around the country so they can eventually have complete control instead of just concentrated urban areas, this is what really bothers the Democrats regarding this plan.  Congress has done nothing to mitigate this 50 plus year old dilemma, let's keep poking them with sticks until they do something. 

 
As do I.  I believe I mentioned something similar to this over the years in my rants about Sanctuary Cities, but no matter.

Yep, send them to SF in particular and the Bay Area in general, which includes San José (otherwise known as Silicone Valley).  They were the first to declare themselves SC's and embrace the arrival and protection of illegal immigrants and open defiance of the Federal government and the laws of the land.  Where better for these people ?  This area is one of the wealthiest in the US and self declared most compassionate places in the US when it comes to the plight of the impoverished and downtrodden.  The weather is also more agreeable than say somewhere in the Midwest.  These people have never seen winter.  Exposing them to winter would be cruel and unusual punishment, imho.  The City of San Francisco has even given illegals the right to vote in local elections several years ago.  No place is more prepared to deal with illegals than the SF Bay Area and the State of California in general.  1 million new arrivals right before the 2020 Census will also give California another Congressional seat !  It's a win win !  As you mentioned, one of the underlying yet constantly denied motivations is to increase the Democratic Party voting base.  Better to keep it contained in one place though where the new constituency voice will not be watered down and hold the D's feet to the fire of their own making.

As someone born and raised in the SF Bay Area (and a refugee from), I approve !


sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 13, 2019 - 12:22pm

 miamizsun wrote:


this is a ridiculously bad idea

even attempting political punishment is just wrong

on the other hand, immigrants may be immigrating right out of those cities

but the san francisco bay area?

they're in pretty bad shape and would be difficult for someone with little or no resources to survive

it's one of the few places in the us a dog could step on a human turd

really sad

 
Yes I think the state of San Francisco is very sad indeed.  How do you think they ended up in this mess?
sirdroseph

sirdroseph Avatar

Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 13, 2019 - 12:19pm

 haresfur wrote:


 miamizsun wrote:


this is a ridiculously bad idea

even attempting political punishment is just wrong

on the other hand, immigrants may be immigrating right out of those cities

but the san francisco bay area?

they're in pretty bad shape and would be difficult for someone with little or no resources to survive

it's one of the few places in the us a dog could step on a human turd

really sad
 

Better than keeping them incarcerated or dumping them in a Texas bus station 

 
It is, I think it is actually a brilliant idea.  Hard to believe Trump thought of it.{#Lol}  Seriously though, send them where they are actually wanted.  Make it very public to show the  migrants being generously transported to their new homes and give everyone a graphical idea of the numbers and let the "compassionate" take care of them.   Tongue is a bit in cheek of course, but apparently many of the mayors of these cities agree with me and say they would welcome them.  I think this is very noble of them actually and they are not being hypocritical by accepting the challenge.{#Clap}   They will never do this though too many people freaking out, using children as pawns they say.  I always thought using children as pawns was a prerequisite for politics, but hey anything to drum up some emotion=votes.  And speaking of votes, there is another dimension that the politicians are really thinking about and that is demographics.  Democrats would prefer random infiltration evenly around the country so they can eventually have complete control instead of just concentrated urban areas, this is what really bothers the Democrats regarding this plan.  Congress has done nothing to mitigate this 50 plus year old dilemma, let's keep poking them with sticks until they do something. 


haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 12, 2019 - 4:01pm



 miamizsun wrote:


this is a ridiculously bad idea

even attempting political punishment is just wrong

on the other hand, immigrants may be immigrating right out of those cities

but the san francisco bay area?

they're in pretty bad shape and would be difficult for someone with little or no resources to survive

it's one of the few places in the us a dog could step on a human turd

really sad


 

Better than keeping them incarcerated or dumping them in a Texas bus station 
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