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islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 15, 2020 - 6:32am



 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 islander wrote:


 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:




 

In time, good ideas will come to fruition. The problem is... it takes some time.
You can't legislate it into existence overnight.

 

Yet all the advancements in ICE that you proclaimed (correctly) down below were the result of... legislation.
 
Yes... but it can't come as quickly as the politicians demand.

 

And neither did the other changes.  My point is that everyone seems upset that the .gov is legislating things rather than letting 'the free market' decide. But all the examples of progress you cite are direct results of legislation (regardless of the time it took to make them good).   I'd even say the rate of progress on electrics is substantially faster than ICE. There are many non-legislative reasons for this too, but legislation has been a driving force for much of it. 
Jester

Jester Avatar

Location: Wytheville, Virginia (There's Only One!)
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 3:01pm

Heisenburg!!!

 Steely_D wrote:


See, I really liked the Aztec. Obviously never got traction with the public. They even gave one away on Survivor one year.
 


KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 12:27pm



 Steely_D wrote:


 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 Red_Dragon wrote:


 
Pontiac Aztec.
Somethings wrong over there at GM.

 

See, I really liked the Aztec. Obviously never got traction with the public. They even gave one away on Survivor one year.
 

And that winner went to prison...
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 10:26am



 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 Red_Dragon wrote:


 
Pontiac Aztec.
Somethings wrong over there at GM.

 

See, I really liked the Aztec. Obviously never got traction with the public. They even gave one away on Survivor one year.
Antigone

Antigone Avatar

Location: A house, in a Virginian Valley
Gender: Female


Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 9:35am

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 Red_Dragon wrote:


 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

And it's way better looking.

 

A dumpster fire is better-looking than an Avalanche. That is one of the most hideous vehicles ever built.
 
Pontiac Aztec.
Somethings wrong over there at GM.

 
Oh, my, that is one ugly vehicle. A veritable Franken-car.
KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 9:28am



 Red_Dragon wrote:


 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

And it's way better looking.

 

A dumpster fire is better-looking than an Avalanche. That is one of the most hideous vehicles ever built.
 
Pontiac Aztec.
Somethings wrong over there at GM.

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 9:15am



 Red_Dragon wrote:


 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

And it's way better looking.

 

A dumpster fire is better-looking than an Avalanche. That is one of the most hideous vehicles ever built.
 
One of Leonard Pitts' recent columns coined the phrase 'Chicken Fried Dumpster Fire'. Made me chuckle...
c.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 9:08am



 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

And it's way better looking.

 

A dumpster fire is better-looking than an Avalanche. That is one of the most hideous vehicles ever built.
KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 8:50am



 Red_Dragon wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I mean, of course!

 


Same idea as a Chevy Avalanche but infinitely cooler.
 
And it's way better looking.

KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 8:48am



 islander wrote:


 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:




 

In time, good ideas will come to fruition. The problem is... it takes some time.
You can't legislate it into existence overnight.

 

Yet all the advancements in ICE that you proclaimed (correctly) down below were the result of... legislation.
 
Yes... but it can't come as quickly as the politicians demand.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 8:40am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I mean, of course!

 


Same idea as a Chevy Avalanche but infinitely cooler.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 8:37am

I mean, of course!

islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 14, 2020 - 6:34am



 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 cc_rider wrote:


 Really good points.

Batteries require a ton of energy to manufacture, have limited life, and are expensive/difficult to dispose of/recycle. Not to mention, the electricity used to charge the batteries has to come from somewhere: fossils still power a big chunk of our grid. There's no such thing as a 'Zero Emissions Vehicle', not even a fuel cell-powered one. It takes energy to split them little hydrogens offa them little oxygens - where does that come from? Sure you can move the emissions around, but it's never 'zero'.

Even wind and solar energy devices require massive amounts of material and energy to produce and install. Ever seen one turbine blade being transported? By truck. Diesel-burning truck. Not to mention the support vehicles running around clearing intersections and checking overhead power lines. That's one blade, for one turbine. Not saying we shouldn't do it, just don't kid yourself how much pollution goes into making it.

If Mazda can get their SkyActiv X engine dialed in, it will be a sea change in ICE performance. I'm a big fan of Mazda - I think it's the last car company still run by actual engineers - but that engine technology is something special. In an industry where a fraction of a percent improvement is considered a win, they're looking at  10,15,20% or more increase in efficiency.

c.




 

In time, good ideas will come to fruition. The problem is... it takes some time.
You can't legislate it into existence overnight.

 

Yet all the advancements in ICE that you proclaimed (correctly) down below were the result of... legislation.
KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2020 - 9:13pm



 cc_rider wrote:


 Really good points.

Batteries require a ton of energy to manufacture, have limited life, and are expensive/difficult to dispose of/recycle. Not to mention, the electricity used to charge the batteries has to come from somewhere: fossils still power a big chunk of our grid. There's no such thing as a 'Zero Emissions Vehicle', not even a fuel cell-powered one. It takes energy to split them little hydrogens offa them little oxygens - where does that come from? Sure you can move the emissions around, but it's never 'zero'.

Even wind and solar energy devices require massive amounts of material and energy to produce and install. Ever seen one turbine blade being transported? By truck. Diesel-burning truck. Not to mention the support vehicles running around clearing intersections and checking overhead power lines. That's one blade, for one turbine. Not saying we shouldn't do it, just don't kid yourself how much pollution goes into making it.

If Mazda can get their SkyActiv X engine dialed in, it will be a sea change in ICE performance. I'm a big fan of Mazda - I think it's the last car company still run by actual engineers - but that engine technology is something special. In an industry where a fraction of a percent improvement is considered a win, they're looking at  10,15,20% or more increase in efficiency.

c.




 

In time, good ideas will come to fruition. The problem is... it takes some time.
You can't legislate it into existence overnight.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2020 - 2:28pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 cc_rider wrote:

Batteries... have limited life

 

I know when E-cars were new there was talk about needing to replace the batteries at 80,000 miles or 5 years, etc. so everyone should just plan on putting $3000 into an old car. I've never known anyone who's had to do this, do you? *knock on wood*
 

mine had a 7 year, 80k warranty...got up to about 60k no problems, until a tree fell on its roof and totaled it
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2020 - 2:04pm



 cc_rider wrote:

Batteries... have limited life

 

I know when E-cars were new there was talk about needing to replace the batteries at 80,000 miles or 5 years, etc. so everyone should just plan on putting $3000 into an old car. I've never known anyone who's had to do this, do you? *knock on wood*
cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2020 - 1:26pm



 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 westslope wrote:


 
That is what my mother said.  Mind you, she had all kinds of not nice things to say.  Far too often.  

Agree with the rest.   Please share any and all thoughts on internal combustion engines.

I am doing my best to reduce, by hiking or bicycling into the downtown village area, for example.  When I do use an automobile, I want it to be in excellent working condition, fuel-efficient with minimum emissions, safe and reliable.  

 
Sorry it took a year to respond. I didn't even realize there was a request. 

The internal combustion engine is a marvel of tech... especially these days.
Today's engines are amazing. They are so controlled by computers, that they run at the top of efficiency for the best gas mileage, emission reduction and reliability. All the time.
To give you an example... there's sensors in the water jacket that listen for detonation in any of the cylinders. When detected... the computer will ever so slightly retard the ignition in that one cylinder to kill the pinging. This is why you need to run the correct octane required for your car. If you choose to run a lower octane to save money... your car will still work. But because the computer is automatically retarding your timing to stop the detonation... you're losing power and contributing to more pollutants into the air.
It's hard to beat the carbon footprint of an internal combustion engine compared to that of a battery powered vehicle today. Not to mention the cost between the two.
Now if they ever get the batteries to work better, and to get them less rotten for the environment (mining raw materials/ disposing/ charging without using electricity/ etc.) life would be good.
This all takes time. I remember when they first legislated emissions on cars back in the mid / late 60's. It turned the engines into jokes. Horrible gas mileage with horrible performance. Especially in the mid 70's.
It took 25 years for technology to finally catch up. Even then it really took another almost 10 years to get it right. Now they are way better... more power and less pollutants at pretty much a discount price.

 Really good points.

Batteries require a ton of energy to manufacture, have limited life, and are expensive/difficult to dispose of/recycle. Not to mention, the electricity used to charge the batteries has to come from somewhere: fossils still power a big chunk of our grid. There's no such thing as a 'Zero Emissions Vehicle', not even a fuel cell-powered one. It takes energy to split them little hydrogens offa them little oxygens - where does that come from? Sure you can move the emissions around, but it's never 'zero'.

Even wind and solar energy devices require massive amounts of material and energy to produce and install. Ever seen one turbine blade being transported? By truck. Diesel-burning truck. Not to mention the support vehicles running around clearing intersections and checking overhead power lines. That's one blade, for one turbine. Not saying we shouldn't do it, just don't kid yourself how much pollution goes into making it.

If Mazda can get their SkyActiv X engine dialed in, it will be a sea change in ICE performance. I'm a big fan of Mazda - I think it's the last car company still run by actual engineers - but that engine technology is something special. In an industry where a fraction of a percent improvement is considered a win, they're looking at  10,15,20% or more increase in efficiency.

c.




KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2020 - 1:04pm



 westslope wrote:


 
That is what my mother said.  Mind you, she had all kinds of not nice things to say.  Far too often.  

Agree with the rest.   Please share any and all thoughts on internal combustion engines.

I am doing my best to reduce, by hiking or bicycling into the downtown village area, for example.  When I do use an automobile, I want it to be in excellent working condition, fuel-efficient with minimum emissions, safe and reliable.  

 
Sorry it took a year to respond. I didn't even realize there was a request. 
The internal combustion engine is a marvel of tech... especially these days.
Today's engines are amazing. They are so controlled by computers, that they run at the top of efficiency for the best gas mileage, emission reduction and reliability. All the time.
To give you an example... there's sensors in the water jacket that listen for detonation in any of the cylinders. When detected... the computer will ever so slightly retard the ignition in that one cylinder to kill the pinging. This is why you need to run the correct octane required for your car. If you choose to run a lower octane to save money... your car will still work. But because the computer is automatically retarding your timing to stop the detonation... you're losing power and contributing to more pollutants into the air.
It's hard to beat the carbon footprint of an internal combustion engine compared to that of a battery powered vehicle today. Not to mention the cost between the two.
Now if they ever get the batteries to work better, and to get them less rotten for the environment (mining raw materials/ disposing/ charging without using electricity/ etc.) life would be good.
This all takes time. I remember when they first legislated emissions on cars back in the mid / late 60's. It turned the engines into jokes. Horrible gas mileage with horrible performance. Especially in the mid 70's.
It took 25 years for technology to finally catch up. Even then it really took another almost 10 years to get it right. Now they are way better... more power and less pollutants at pretty much a discount price.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 13, 2020 - 10:23am

Yes.

From a page of Weird Ford Trucks from Brazil
Egctheow

Egctheow Avatar

Location: In over my head
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 28, 2019 - 12:48am



 Proclivities wrote:
from Sports Illustrated, Jan. 11, 1960

 

Nice one, thank you. The design of the rear end is quite mesmerising, as if they couldn't decide whether it was the front or the rear. Top is rear and bottom is front. I like the alien-esque tail lights. Are the bottom lights reverse lighting?

Could be used as a psych test, "what do you think when you look at this? a) she's getting ready for some comfy farting; b) she must be flashing, but why is he looking the other way?; c) I wonder what she's doing with her toes; d) What's in the boot?
That kind of test might tell you more about the shrink than about the patient though.
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