Trump
- westslope - Dec 10, 2019 - 1:35pm
Books read recently
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RP forum post editing
- westslope - Dec 10, 2019 - 1:33pm
Post your favorite 'You Tube' Videos Here
- Manbird - Dec 10, 2019 - 1:29pm
Things for which you would sell ManBird's soul
- Manbird - Dec 10, 2019 - 1:27pm
Things that piss me off
- westslope - Dec 10, 2019 - 1:26pm
What Puts You In the Christmas Mood?
- haresfur - Dec 10, 2019 - 12:58pm
Strange & Cool Music
- Proclivities - Dec 10, 2019 - 12:28pm
Bug Reports & Feature Requests
- penn07 - Dec 10, 2019 - 11:27am
Mars
- miamizsun - Dec 10, 2019 - 8:39am
Critical Thought
- miamizsun - Dec 10, 2019 - 8:34am
Counting with Pictures
- ScottN - Dec 10, 2019 - 8:29am
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group
- islander - Dec 10, 2019 - 6:10am
Radio Paradise Comments
- Coaxial - Dec 10, 2019 - 5:01am
Evolution!
- R_P - Dec 9, 2019 - 11:09pm
Afghanistan
- haresfur - Dec 9, 2019 - 6:25pm
Automotive Lust
- Red_Dragon - Dec 9, 2019 - 3:23pm
TV shows you watch
- haresfur - Dec 9, 2019 - 3:15pm
Vinyl Only Spin List
- kurtster - Dec 9, 2019 - 3:07pm
This Just In
- miamizsun - Dec 9, 2019 - 2:59pm
Tech & Science
- miamizsun - Dec 9, 2019 - 2:57pm
Art Show
- miamizsun - Dec 9, 2019 - 2:34pm
Gotta Get Your Drink On
- kcar - Dec 9, 2019 - 1:59pm
What The Hell Buddy?
- buddy - Dec 9, 2019 - 1:29pm
RP Windows Desktop Notification Applet
- gvajda - Dec 9, 2019 - 7:43am
Graphs, Charts & Maps
- ScottFromWyoming - Dec 8, 2019 - 6:13pm
Food
- ScottFromWyoming - Dec 8, 2019 - 4:20pm
What makes you smile?
- PoundPuppy - Dec 8, 2019 - 2:30pm
What are you listening to now?
- SeriousLee - Dec 8, 2019 - 9:21am
Winter time is here !
- miamizsun - Dec 8, 2019 - 8:20am
Today in History
- miamizsun - Dec 8, 2019 - 8:19am
Mixtape Culture Club
- Lazy8 - Dec 7, 2019 - 10:43pm
Economix
- Lazy8 - Dec 7, 2019 - 8:32pm
What Did You Do Today?
- Red_Dragon - Dec 7, 2019 - 6:20pm
What are you reading now?
- miamizsun - Dec 7, 2019 - 12:40pm
Impeachment Time:
- miamizsun - Dec 7, 2019 - 11:54am
Climate Change
- miamizsun - Dec 7, 2019 - 11:42am
how do you feel right now?
- Coaxial - Dec 7, 2019 - 7:52am
RP App for Android
- jarro - Dec 7, 2019 - 2:22am
Things You Thought Today
- triskele - Dec 6, 2019 - 4:36pm
FOUR WORDS
- triskele - Dec 6, 2019 - 4:35pm
THREE WORDS
- triskele - Dec 6, 2019 - 4:34pm
TWO WORDS
- triskele - Dec 6, 2019 - 4:34pm
ONE WORD
- triskele - Dec 6, 2019 - 4:33pm
What songs make you cry...
- Red_Dragon - Dec 6, 2019 - 3:43pm
Talk Behind Their Backs Forum
- buddy - Dec 6, 2019 - 2:22pm
Republican Sulking Forum
- buddy - Dec 6, 2019 - 1:16pm
Nice set Bill....
- buddy - Dec 6, 2019 - 12:46pm
Strips, cartoons, illustrations
- R_P - Dec 6, 2019 - 10:27am
Breaking News
- Prodigal_SOB - Dec 6, 2019 - 8:43am
Maybe it's just the beer talking...
- Proclivities - Dec 6, 2019 - 6:27am
FLAC Streaming Problem
- BillG - Dec 6, 2019 - 3:34am
http://stream.radioparadise.com/aac-320 stream cutting out
- BillG - Dec 6, 2019 - 3:33am
The Perfect Government
- miamizsun - Dec 5, 2019 - 3:28pm
New Music
- miamizsun - Dec 5, 2019 - 2:55pm
Infinite cat
- kcar - Dec 5, 2019 - 1:45pm
The Wall
- miamizsun - Dec 5, 2019 - 1:40pm
Democratic Party
- miamizsun - Dec 5, 2019 - 1:37pm
Way Cool Video
- miamizsun - Dec 5, 2019 - 6:54am
The Middle East
- Red_Dragon - Dec 5, 2019 - 6:40am
Best Song Comments.
- sunybuny - Dec 5, 2019 - 6:23am
Echoy voice overs
- TheKing2 - Dec 5, 2019 - 1:13am
Poetry Forum
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Make Scott laugh
- haresfur - Dec 4, 2019 - 4:25pm
Capital Punishment
- R_P - Dec 4, 2019 - 4:04pm
website not showing current playlist
- BillG - Dec 4, 2019 - 4:04pm
What did you have for lunch?
- miamizsun - Dec 4, 2019 - 2:42pm
• • • BACON • • •
- miamizsun - Dec 4, 2019 - 1:29pm
RP Rock Mix on Amazon Alexa
- r3 - Dec 4, 2019 - 12:15pm
Cake or Pie?
- Proclivities - Dec 4, 2019 - 10:06am
Derplahoma Questions and Points of Interest
- Red_Dragon - Dec 4, 2019 - 9:14am
2020 Elections
- Red_Dragon - Dec 4, 2019 - 7:23am
aflanigan is a pissant, two bit, knee crawlin, slip slidi...
- miamizsun - Dec 4, 2019 - 5:01am
Why does my hundreds of "My Favorites" not play in the ne...
- Nilsslin - Dec 4, 2019 - 5:00am
Positive Thoughts and Prayer Requests
- miamizsun - Dec 4, 2019 - 4:54am
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Index »
Radio Paradise/General »
General Discussion »
Those Lovable Policemen
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Page: 1, 2, 3 ... 43, 44, 45 Next |
R_P


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Posted:
Nov 7, 2019 - 2:42pm |
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R_P


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Posted:
Oct 1, 2019 - 10:52am |
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R_P


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Posted:
Aug 8, 2019 - 12:17pm |
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R_P


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Posted:
Jul 13, 2019 - 11:50am |
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Border Patrol Chief Carla Provost Was a Member of Secret Facebook GroupWhen news broke that thousands of current and former Border Patrol agents were members of a secret Facebook group filled with racist, vulgar, and sexist content, Carla Provost, chief of the agency, was quick to respond. âThese posts are completely inappropriate and contrary to the honor and integrity I see â and expect â from our agents day in and day out,â Provost said in a statement. âAny employees found to have violated our standards of conduct will be held accountable.â (...)
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R_P


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Posted:
Jul 12, 2019 - 10:56am |
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A Florida cop planted meth on random drivers, police say. One lost custody of his daughter.Wester, who was fired last September, was arrested Wednesday and charged with 52 counts of racketeering, false imprisonment, official misconduct, fabricating evidence and possession of controlled substances, among other charges. Heâs accused of indiscriminately targeting innocent drivers and hauling them off to jail after planting meth or marijuana in their vehicles while feigning a âsearch."
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R_P


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Posted:
Jul 8, 2019 - 9:28am |
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miamizsun

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP) Gender:  
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Posted:
Jul 7, 2019 - 7:25am |
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R_P wrote: a secret facebook group?
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Red_Dragon


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Posted:
Jul 7, 2019 - 7:15am |
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R_P


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Posted:
Jul 5, 2019 - 2:54pm |
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R_P


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R_P


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Posted:
Jun 16, 2019 - 1:02pm |
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kurtster

Location: drifting Gender:  
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Posted:
Apr 25, 2019 - 11:46am |
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islander wrote:Here's a nickle. That's well said. thank you.
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islander

Location: Seattle Gender:  
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Posted:
Apr 25, 2019 - 11:31am |
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kurtster wrote: Here in Ohio, most police chiefs are appointed by mayors and approved by city councils. Our county sheriffs are elected. So the chiefs are tied to politics, at least here in Ohio which is where the case we are talking about occurred. While the woman's arrest was a case of mistaken identity, the protocols that are in place that dictated the aftermath are mostly a result of zero tolerance, imo.
The weekend is no excuse for any lapses, especially when the welfare of a new born and their mother is involved. Resolving this situation should become a highest priority, that is unless the police assume that the woman is who they think she is and she deserves all the maltreatment she gets. It is this attitude that is really at the heart of the matter. The system believes that everyone is guilty until they prove their innocence. Go into court for even a petty offense and when you go to the clerk's window to pay your fine, more often than not, you get treated like a dirt bag. The only place you get presumed innocent is in the court room itself, and then it is only because they have to.
I see nothing that shows any sloppy work on the part of police. They were just doing their job given the information at hand. The woman is definitely entitled to redress and compensation. Her children were seized from her, she lost her job and most importantly she now has an arrest for heroin trafficking that will follow her for the rest of her life. While the charges were dropped, one's arrest record is almost always never changed. Her next encounter with any law enforcement will immediately show this arrest detail and her treatment will immediately change in a bad way.
The System, is a faceless entity that is monolithic, uncaring and unresponsive to outside influences. It only recognizes names and numbers. Humans are its commodity and nothing more. The only thing it reacts to is money and power. You cannot punish the system. All you can do is charge the system with a debt that it must pay. Who pays that debt does not matter to the system. It will continue along its merry way and let the legal experts decide who pays what to whom. The members of the system are just as stuck in it as are their charges (us) and have little control over it. The system rarely (read never) learns from its mistakes. The only learning that goes on is at the gatekeeper level. Those who capture and admit us to the entry point which takes me back to zero tolerance. If you have never been formally admitted into the system, it is hard to understand what it really is. Once in, you no longer have any control over your life until it releases you, completely. As in all fines, sentences and restrictions have been satisfied and lifted.
So in the case of this woman, I would deem her an award of $1 million dollars, after legal fees. She may find herself unemployable after this arrest through no fault of her own based simply on her arrest record. This amount should be sufficient to set her up for the rest of her life. What she ends up doing with the money is of no one's concern. They take her as she is and can not judge her and her abilities or lack of. No one is going to be fired over this other than the woman herself. More than likely insurance companies will pay the money, so the government will not suffer any losses nor learn any lessons. We will see more of these situations as time progresses, not less as the long arm of the law gets longer and longer.
The only things that governments understand is money and even that is debatable. Let's keep this simple.
My 2¢
Here's a nickle. That's well said.
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kurtster

Location: drifting Gender:  
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Posted:
Apr 25, 2019 - 11:17am |
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Lazy8 wrote: Not sure what you're proposing as this ideal fix. Police departments don't generally answer to civil government; police chiefs are (everywhere I've ever lived anyway) separately elected and can't be fired. They are unaccountable by design.
That is also a political remedy. It works if the majority gets outraged, but this kind of abuse happens to minorities. In this case, a minority of one.
What we need is a remedy that can punish law enforcement—an over-arching authority that can prosecute the people who normally make prosecution decisions. Seems like maybe a role for state government.
This has nothing to do with division. In fact one-party states (like California or Wyoming) are probably more vulnerable to abuse of power than places with contested politics.
It also isn't clear that this case is abuse of power, other than the law she was arrested under itself, which isn't the cops' fault. This is more a garden-variety blunder, a case of mistaken identity. Sloppy work is not abuse of power, that implies intent and I don't see that here. But carelessness with power also needs to be held to account and law enforcement doesn't have a very good track record there either.
Here in Ohio, most police chiefs are appointed by mayors and approved by city councils. Our county sheriffs are elected. So the chiefs are tied to politics, at least here in Ohio which is where the case we are talking about occurred. While the woman's arrest was a case of mistaken identity, the protocols that are in place that dictated the aftermath are mostly a result of zero tolerance, imo. The weekend is no excuse for any lapses, especially when the welfare of a new born and their mother is involved. Resolving this situation should become a highest priority, that is unless the police assume that the woman is who they think she is and she deserves all the maltreatment she gets. It is this attitude that is really at the heart of the matter. The system believes that everyone is guilty until they prove their innocence. Go into court for even a petty offense and when you go to the clerk's window to pay your fine, more often than not, you get treated like a dirt bag. The only place you get presumed innocent is in the court room itself, and then it is only because they have to. I see nothing that shows any sloppy work on the part of police. They were just doing their job given the information at hand. The woman is definitely entitled to redress and compensation. Her children were seized from her, she lost her job and most importantly she now has an arrest for heroin trafficking that will follow her for the rest of her life. While the charges were dropped, one's arrest record is almost always never changed. Her next encounter with any law enforcement will immediately show this arrest detail and her treatment will immediately change in a bad way. The System, is a faceless entity that is monolithic, uncaring and unresponsive to outside influences. It only recognizes names and numbers. Humans are its commodity and nothing more. The only thing it reacts to is money and power. You cannot punish the system. All you can do is charge the system with a debt that it must pay. Who pays that debt does not matter to the system. It will continue along its merry way and let the legal experts decide who pays what to whom. The members of the system are just as stuck in it as are their charges (us) and have little control over it. The system rarely (read never) learns from its mistakes. The only learning that goes on is at the gatekeeper level. Those who capture and admit us to the entry point which takes me back to zero tolerance. If you have never been formally admitted into the system, it is hard to understand what it really is. Once in, you no longer have any control over your life until it releases you, completely. As in all fines, sentences and restrictions have been satisfied and lifted. So in the case of this woman, I would deem her an award of $1 million dollars, after legal fees. She may find herself unemployable after this arrest through no fault of her own based simply on her arrest record. This amount should be sufficient to set her up for the rest of her life. What she ends up doing with the money is of no one's concern. They take her as she is and can not judge her and her abilities or lack of. No one is going to be fired over this other than the woman herself. More than likely insurance companies will pay the money, so the government will not suffer any losses nor learn any lessons. We will see more of these situations as time progresses, not less as the long arm of the law gets longer and longer. The only things that governments understand is money and even that is debatable. Let's keep this simple. My 2¢
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islander

Location: Seattle Gender:  
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Posted:
Apr 25, 2019 - 10:39am |
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Lazy8 wrote:islander wrote:None of Y'all? I think we have a reasonably well demonstrated (and warranted) fear of abuse of power. The civil court just happens to be about the only recourse that is ever effective. Sure you could lobby your city council and see about getting some real accountability, but most within the departments won't speak our, and then there is the fear of continued harassment. As long as our politics is so completely divided, our governance will continue to fail to serve us all.
Not sure what you're proposing as this ideal fix. Police departments don't generally answer to civil government; police chiefs are (everywhere I've ever lived anyway) separately elected and can't be fired. They are unaccountable by design. That is also a political remedy. It works if the majority gets outraged, but this kind of abuse happens to minorities. In this case, a minority of one. What we need is a remedy that can punish law enforcementâan over-arching authority that can prosecute the people who normally make prosecution decisions. Seems like maybe a role for state government. This has nothing to do with division. In fact one-party states (like California or Wyoming) are probably more vulnerable to abuse of power than places with contested politics. It also isn't clear that this case is abuse of power, other than the law she was arrested under itself, which isn't the cops' fault. This is more a garden-variety blunder, a case of mistaken identity. Sloppy work is not abuse of power, that implies intent and I don't see that here. But carelessness with power also needs to be held to account and law enforcement doesn't have a very good track record there either. I don't know how it went down. But I've seen plenty of abuses of power that used a bad law because it was convenient. There are many instances (I've benefited from some of them) where law enforcement looks the other ways for some offenders, but not others. I don't have a good solution. But I can spot a trend line in the behaviors and outcomes that we are currently perpetuating. I'm up for something different, but as usual the change probably needs to start with those holding the power.
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ScottFromWyoming

Location: Powell Gender:  
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Posted:
Apr 25, 2019 - 7:55am |
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Lazy8 wrote:It also isn't clear that this case is abuse of power, other than the law she was arrested under itself, which isn't the cops' fault. This is more a garden-variety blunder, a case of mistaken identity. Sloppy work is not abuse of power, that implies intent and I don't see that here. But carelessness with power also needs to be held to account and law enforcement doesn't have a very good track record there either.
And this all comes back to lawyers. We beat the tendency for original thought out of our police and a lot of other professions, requiring them to follow protocol for fear of a lawsuit. There used to be a T-shirt popular among Vietnam vets et al, "Kill 'em all/Let God sort 'em out." Now when it comes to crime, especially when kids are involved, it's "Arrest everyone, let the lawyers sort 'em out." There seems to have been a feeling of "I'm not going to be the one to let a criminal go free" so she just had to suffer. They did everything by the book, so in their minds, there was nothing to apologize for. ============ Unrelated but not really: I wish I had documented all of the policies the Ski Patrol had to implement because "insurance requires it." Put fences up to keep people out of closed off areas. Take same fences down because they establish that we take responsibility for the area beyond the fence. Tell people not to go past the non-fence area. Don't tell people not to go there. Mark off hazardous areas. Don't mark off hazardous areas. In the end, the insurance inspector is totally happy with however we run our hill. I've gone on inspections with them and they're fine with it either way. It's the new bosses who come in, don't like the way something looks, so they change it. But it's not good enough to say "I don't like that fence there," they think they have to make up a story about the insurance company.
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Lazy8

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana Gender:  
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Posted:
Apr 25, 2019 - 7:31am |
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islander wrote:
None of Y'all? I think we have a reasonably well demonstrated (and warranted) fear of abuse of power. The civil court just happens to be about the only recourse that is ever effective. Sure you could lobby your city council and see about getting some real accountability, but most within the departments won't speak our, and then there is the fear of continued harassment. As long as our politics is so completely divided, our governance will continue to fail to serve us all.
Not sure what you're proposing as this ideal fix. Police departments don't generally answer to civil government; police chiefs are (everywhere I've ever lived anyway) separately elected and can't be fired. They are unaccountable by design. That is also a political remedy. It works if the majority gets outraged, but this kind of abuse happens to minorities. In this case, a minority of one. What we need is a remedy that can punish law enforcement—an over-arching authority that can prosecute the people who normally make prosecution decisions. Seems like maybe a role for state government. This has nothing to do with division. In fact one-party states (like California or Wyoming) are probably more vulnerable to abuse of power than places with contested politics. It also isn't clear that this case is abuse of power, other than the law she was arrested under itself, which isn't the cops' fault. This is more a garden-variety blunder, a case of mistaken identity. Sloppy work is not abuse of power, that implies intent and I don't see that here. But carelessness with power also needs to be held to account and law enforcement doesn't have a very good track record there either.
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islander

Location: Seattle Gender:  
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Posted:
Apr 25, 2019 - 6:15am |
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Lazy8 wrote:ScottFromWyoming wrote:Correct. But rule one when you've done something that might get you sued is Never Admit Fault (including saying you're sorry).
On a slightly unrelated note, I think we've established that massive punitive damages, while merited in individual cases, don't improve outcomes in the aggregate. I'm sure there are stats that show the frequency of this sort of case is actually declining, but it's harder to understand now that we have internets and can sort things out without actually leaving our desks, most of the time.
Agree that punitive damages don't help, disagree that they are ever merited. Punishment is not what civil law is for, that's what criminal law is for. Adding punishment to civil law distorts the outcomes as well as the process. The process itself is punitive, tho not intentionally. Things like discovery get abused to make it abusive, and the cost of the process is by itself a weapon. I'm also fascinated that what got the comments was the likelihood that she will sue rather than the abuse of power that caused the problem in the first place. None of y'all can see this happening to you? None of Y'all? I think we have a reasonably well demonstrated (and warranted) fear of abuse of power. The civil court just happens to be about the only recourse that is ever effective. Sure you could lobby your city council and see about getting some real accountability, but most within the departments won't speak our, and then there is the fear of continued harassment. As long as our politics is so completely divided, our governance will continue to fail to serve us all.
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cc_rider

Location: Bastrop Gender:  
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Posted:
Apr 24, 2019 - 9:53am |
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oldviolin wrote: Red_Dragon wrote: Lawyers gotta eat, same as snakes.
I think the quote is "buzzards gotta eat, same as worms..." but who's counting? "Get ready little lady, Hell is comin' to breakfast."
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ScottFromWyoming

Location: Powell Gender:  
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Posted:
Apr 24, 2019 - 9:23am |
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Lazy8 wrote:ScottFromWyoming wrote:Correct. But rule one when you've done something that might get you sued is Never Admit Fault (including saying you're sorry).
On a slightly unrelated note, I think we've established that massive punitive damages, while merited in individual cases, don't improve outcomes in the aggregate. I'm sure there are stats that show the frequency of this sort of case is actually declining, but it's harder to understand now that we have internets and can sort things out without actually leaving our desks, most of the time.
Agree that punitive damages don't help, disagree that they are ever merited. Punishment is not what civil law is for, that's what criminal law is for. Adding punishment to civil law distorts the outcomes as well as the process. The process itself is punitive, tho not intentionally. Things like discovery get abused to make it abusive, and the cost of the process is by itself a weapon. I'm also fascinated that what got the comments was the likelihood that she will sue rather than the abuse of power that caused the problem in the first place. None of y'all can see this happening to you? I just meant in the general "I can see that" sense of merit. Schadenfreudalism at work or something. re your last question: That's a given. Absolutely CAN see it happening.
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