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ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 8, 2021 - 9:36pm



 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

I'd love for them to make a go of it, but I don't think I want anyone to be plastering "bankrupt" notices on the door in a year, either. And leave me to restore the building after it's been outfitted to have fryers and hoods in it. Oy. But I'm trying to nudge them into making good decisions without saying "you can't do that here."
 

Update:

 
For the best.
Debbie (my wife, for those who don't know her) always wanted to open a bakery... or a Bed and Breakfast.
I sat her down...
and talked to her about all the work involved  in such ventures.
There's no doubt she could pull any of those things off. But she would die trying to make it perfect.
She continues to bake... shes the best out there. I help her make the bed.


 
I've seen those pies... 

These peoples' business plan had her working 70 hour weeks. THAT PART was realistic. The rest was fantasy.

KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 8, 2021 - 9:17pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

I'd love for them to make a go of it, but I don't think I want anyone to be plastering "bankrupt" notices on the door in a year, either. And leave me to restore the building after it's been outfitted to have fryers and hoods in it. Oy. But I'm trying to nudge them into making good decisions without saying "you can't do that here."
 

Update:

 
For the best.
Debbie (my wife, for those who don't know her) always wanted to open a bakery... or a Bed and Breakfast.
I sat her down... and talked to her about all the work involved  in such ventures.
There's no doubt she could pull any of those things off. But she would die trying to make it perfect.
She continues to bake... shes the best out there. I help her make the bed.

islander

islander Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 8, 2021 - 7:13pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
My sister and I own the building that our parents bought and operated a bicycle shop out of for many years, and then the new owner of the bike shop just closed his doors in December. So now we're looking for tenants. Some folks recently moved here from Ohio and think our town needs a bakery. They've never run a business before; he's an avid home baker and she's worked in institutional kitchens (hospitals, schools) so anyway I spent the afternoon-to-midnight reviewing their business plan and making notes. It's partly "you need to get us this information before we'll rent to you/allow you begin remodeling" and partly "oh, honey, this is not realistic market research." 

I'd love for them to make a go of it, but I don't think I want anyone to be plastering "bankrupt" notices on the door in a year, either. And leave me to restore the building after it's been outfitted to have fryers and hoods in it. Oy. But I'm trying to nudge them into making good decisions without saying "you can't do that here."
 

Update:
My sister and I are not good at this, so when they kept on chugging along, I said to myself, they need financing and no bank will loan them money on this business plan. 

Boy was I wrong. I didn't ask what the terms were, but the first bank said okay, but the people said the rate was pretty high so they went to another bank and got approved for a lower % plus approved for a line of credit to cover operating expenses. When I got that email my heart sank and thinking about it just made me physically shaky. A couple of days ago, my sister let them in with an electrician to go over what would be required and he ballpark estimated $5000. The bakery guy blanched at that and so did my sister... nothing like that was in the budget! So my sister was optimistic until that point. She realized that they had already earmarked every dollar in their loan amount so they were already going to have to make cuts and changes. She emailed me that she was feeling anxious and I agreed.  We had them down for a face-to-face and told them we weren't going to rent to them. They stumbled for a couple of beats and then said "we figured that was what this was about." They'd been seeking other financing (I guess the second offer wasn't too attractive after all) and the place they checked with did tell them they needed to slow down and get some more research. They also had talked to the local Small Business Development guy who I put them in touch with months ago, and he had told them the same thing. So we were the third people today to tell them to put the brakes on this plan. SBD guy did say that once they'd really done all the things on the to-do list that I gave them, they'd be much better prepared to get this thing going. 

tl;dr: We turned down some renters. So anyway, we have some retail space available. 
 
Right thing to do. And really in your interests as well. If they failed it wouldn't be a simple easy their gone and you get to keep the improvements thing. It would be months (years?) of off and on payments, threats, bounced checks, legal notices and on and on.  Now you can keep it open for a renter who won't be a drag, and you have good karma to boot.  Maybe they rework the plan and come back around, either way, you've done good for everyone involved.

haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 8, 2021 - 7:09pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
My sister and I own the building that our parents bought and operated a bicycle shop out of for many years, and then the new owner of the bike shop just closed his doors in December. So now we're looking for tenants. Some folks recently moved here from Ohio and think our town needs a bakery. They've never run a business before; he's an avid home baker and she's worked in institutional kitchens (hospitals, schools) so anyway I spent the afternoon-to-midnight reviewing their business plan and making notes. It's partly "you need to get us this information before we'll rent to you/allow you begin remodeling" and partly "oh, honey, this is not realistic market research." 

I'd love for them to make a go of it, but I don't think I want anyone to be plastering "bankrupt" notices on the door in a year, either. And leave me to restore the building after it's been outfitted to have fryers and hoods in it. Oy. But I'm trying to nudge them into making good decisions without saying "you can't do that here."
 

Update:
My sister and I are not good at this, so when they kept on chugging along, I said to myself, they need financing and no bank will loan them money on this business plan. 

Boy was I wrong. I didn't ask what the terms were, but the first bank said okay, but the people said the rate was pretty high so they went to another bank and got approved for a lower % plus approved for a line of credit to cover operating expenses. When I got that email my heart sank and thinking about it just made me physically shaky. A couple of days ago, my sister let them in with an electrician to go over what would be required and he ballpark estimated $5000. The bakery guy blanched at that and so did my sister... nothing like that was in the budget! So my sister was optimistic until that point. She realized that they had already earmarked every dollar in their loan amount so they were already going to have to make cuts and changes. She emailed me that she was feeling anxious and I agreed.  We had them down for a face-to-face and told them we weren't going to rent to them. They stumbled for a couple of beats and then said "we figured that was what this was about." They'd been seeking other financing (I guess the second offer wasn't too attractive after all) and the place they checked with did tell them they needed to slow down and get some more research. They also had talked to the local Small Business Development guy who I put them in touch with months ago, and he had told them the same thing. So we were the third people today to tell them to put the brakes on this plan. SBD guy did say that once they'd really done all the things on the to-do list that I gave them, they'd be much better prepared to get this thing going. 

tl;dr: We turned down some renters. So anyway, we have some retail space available. 
 
Bummer but it will probably save you grief in the long run.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 8, 2021 - 7:05pm



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
My sister and I own the building that our parents bought and operated a bicycle shop out of for many years, and then the new owner of the bike shop just closed his doors in December. So now we're looking for tenants. Some folks recently moved here from Ohio and think our town needs a bakery. They've never run a business before; he's an avid home baker and she's worked in institutional kitchens (hospitals, schools) so anyway I spent the afternoon-to-midnight reviewing their business plan and making notes. It's partly "you need to get us this information before we'll rent to you/allow you begin remodeling" and partly "oh, honey, this is not realistic market research." 

I'd love for them to make a go of it, but I don't think I want anyone to be plastering "bankrupt" notices on the door in a year, either. And leave me to restore the building after it's been outfitted to have fryers and hoods in it. Oy. But I'm trying to nudge them into making good decisions without saying "you can't do that here."
 

Update:
My sister and I are not good at this, so when they kept on chugging along, I said to myself, they need financing and no bank will loan them money on this business plan. 

Boy was I wrong. I didn't ask what the terms were, but the first bank said okay, but the people said the rate was pretty high so they went to another bank and got approved for a lower % plus approved for a line of credit to cover operating expenses. When I got that email my heart sank and thinking about it just made me physically shaky. A couple of days ago, my sister let them in with an electrician to go over what would be required and he ballpark estimated $5000. The bakery guy blanched at that and so did my sister... nothing like that was in the budget! So my sister was optimistic until that point. She realized that they had already earmarked every dollar in their loan amount so they were already going to have to make cuts and changes. She emailed me that she was feeling anxious and I agreed.  We had them down for a face-to-face and told them we weren't going to rent to them. They stumbled for a couple of beats and then said "we figured that was what this was about." They'd been seeking other financing (I guess the second offer wasn't too attractive after all) and the place they checked with did tell them they needed to slow down and get some more research. They also had talked to the local Small Business Development guy who I put them in touch with months ago, and he had told them the same thing. So we were the third people today to tell them to put the brakes on this plan. SBD guy did say that once they'd really done all the things on the to-do list that I gave them, they'd be much better prepared to get this thing going. 

tl;dr: We turned down some renters. So anyway, we have some retail space available. 
Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 4, 2021 - 5:04am

 miamizsun wrote:


 Coaxial wrote:

Finally got the lowdown today from the biopsy...Squamous Cell Carcinoma...More cutting later this month.{#Meditate}
 

good thing you got on this  

early detection/diagnosis = better outcomes  

stay vigilant  
 
Thanks.{#High-five}
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3261.3 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 4, 2021 - 4:47am



 Coaxial wrote:

Finally got the lowdown today from the biopsy...Squamous Cell Carcinoma...More cutting later this month.
{#Meditate}
 

good thing you got on this  

early detection/diagnosis = better outcomes  

stay vigilant  
Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 4, 2021 - 4:29am

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:


 Coaxial wrote:

Finally got the lowdown today from the biopsy...Squamous Cell Carcinoma...More cutting later this month.{#Meditate}
 

Well if its on the face...  consider it a facelift.
Well, not that good of humor... hoping for good results there.
 
Thanks, luckily it is on my forearm, halfway between my wrist and elbow, on the arm that gets most of the sun while driving.{#Good-vibes}
KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2021 - 8:15am



 Coaxial wrote:

Finally got the lowdown today from the biopsy...Squamous Cell Carcinoma...More cutting later this month.
{#Meditate}
 

Well if its on the face...  consider it a facelift.
Well, not that good of humor... hoping for good results there.
Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 3, 2021 - 4:21am

Thanks. Thankfully the spot changed into something worrisome very recently and I was scheduled for my yearly skin check at the right time. I'm all set for early on the 25th to have it completely removed.{#Good-vibes}
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 2, 2021 - 9:04pm



 Coaxial wrote:

Finally got the lowdown today from the biopsy...Squamous Cell Carcinoma...More cutting later this month.
{#Meditate}
 
Glad you caught it. Recover thoroughly and quickly 

I just had my annual skin check (Australia is the skin cancer capital of the world). Not an ideal place for British complexions so many people opt for annual checks. I probably don't meet the high risk criteria but seems like cheap insurance even though the government doesn't recommend universal screening (read that as not cost-effective).

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 2, 2021 - 8:15pm



 Coaxial wrote:

Finally got the lowdown today from the biopsy...Squamous Cell Carcinoma...More cutting later this month.
{#Meditate}

GIT IT OUT

 

Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 2, 2021 - 8:03pm

 Coaxial wrote:
Saw my dermatologist...He did a little freezing and a little cutting...Yee haw!
 
Finally got the lowdown today from the biopsy...Squamous Cell Carcinoma...More cutting later this month.{#Meditate}
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 1, 2021 - 8:59pm



 Coaxial wrote:
 

Yeah it took us a few days  to realize it was going to be the last one. Paid FULL RETAIL too. :lol:
Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 1, 2021 - 6:24pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 black321 wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 haresfur wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
My sister and I own the building that our parents bought and operated a bicycle shop out of for many years, and then the new owner of the bike shop just closed his doors in December. So now we're looking for tenants. Some folks recently moved here from Ohio and think our town needs a bakery. They've never run a business before; he's an avid home baker and she's worked in institutional kitchens (hospitals, schools) so anyway I spent the afternoon-to-midnight reviewing their business plan and making notes. It's partly "you need to get us this information before we'll rent to you/allow you begin remodeling" and partly "oh, honey, this is not realistic market research." 

I'd love for them to make a go of it, but I don't think I want anyone to be plastering "bankrupt" notices on the door in a year, either. And leave me to restore the building after it's been outfitted to have fryers and hoods in it. Oy. But I'm trying to nudge them into making good decisions without saying "you can't do that here."
 
Sounds like a bit of a risk, but good quality baked goods seem to be popular now. The question is whether they can make them commercially (think consistency) and whether people in the town are willing to pay for quality. A bakery/cafe just opened here and sells croissants for something like $12. Seems really steep to me but they are busy. How much of the equipment will go to you if they fail? 

 

We'd put it in the contract that they can/must take most of it. There would be some exhaust fans installed in an exterior wall; those would have to stay. One part of their business plan is really intriguing to me and wouldn't expose them or us to so much risk, but they want to take on baking. The business plan doesn't state what they think their costs will be or what they think the prices will be, but they do hope to "start" with an average 100 customers at an average of $10 each. I want to rent the place, I want a good bakery in town, I want them to succeed. I just don't think this is gonna fly and I don't want to be the landlord that was the problem... "we could have made it but the rents were so high..." etc.
 
Did you taste?
Retail is all about the quality....how you position above the mass/online competitor.
If it tastes no better than a safeway donut, why bother?

Surprised the bike shop closed...bike sales have been through the roof during the pandemic.

 

I have not tasted these but he's doing a yeast recipe donut which already sets it apart from the grocery store.

The bike shop was heading toward retirement already, and he preordered a smaller number of bikes during January... those are scheduled several months out. By March, the pandemic hit, so they said they'd be late getting orders shipped and allowed dealers to opt out or modify their pre-orders. Which he did. Then when he sold out immediately, they declined to sell him any more bikes unless he got a full container (many more bikes than he could possibly take in in one shipment) so he declined. Hindsight knows he could have had the best year in history, since there were no bikes available within 1000 miles of us this summer (Specialized brand, anyway). My son's bike was stolen in June (also a big spike in that activity) and we waited patiently for more to arrive but none ever did. By mid-summer it was clear that he was just going to spool it up. He was very busy repairing bikes that were last ridden during the Reagan years anyway, so new sales weren't critical.

In October, a bike that he'd special ordered in February arrived. He almost refused the shipment because the buyer had found something somewhere else, but decided to put it on the floor anyway. My wife happened to stop in to see if they had any tire pumps remaining since ours was shot, and happened to ask if any bikes came in. Well it just so happens...

After almost 50 years, and completely by random happenstance, the last bicycle sold by Larsen's Bicycles was to the grandson of the people who started the shop.
 
Buzz must be pretty proud of that fact.{#Good-vibes}
haresfur

haresfur Avatar

Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 1, 2021 - 3:53pm



 rgio wrote:


 

 
Youtube and the internet....lessons and sales for almost nothing.

Your comment made me think of this as proof anything (good) can take off on the internet.... Rancho Gordo

 
Been watching Steve's Rancho Gordo business take off over a few years on my foodie site. Then it went nuts with some pandemic publicity. The waiting list for his bean club is up to something like 11,000. I would dearly love one of his bean pots.
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 1, 2021 - 12:13pm



 rgio wrote:


Your comment made me think of this as proof anything (good) can take off on the internet.... Rancho Gordo

 
Exactly. I sort of think they don't have that kind of Napa panache but with the huge surge in cooking at home, I think they should jump in with both feet. We'll see...

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 1, 2021 - 12:11pm



 black321 wrote:


suppose you also need to weigh retail leases are a buyers market in most towns...given all the failures. 


 

Our town, especially. Lots of lawyers and hair salons on the main street these days. Only one hardware store, and a drugstore, otherwise not much traditional retail. A realtor has offered to buy it (no price stated) to put in some general retail downstairs and Air B&B upstairs. That's kind of an interesting idea, but it would require some serious remodeling. Could out-earn the professional offices that are up there now though. I assume it's a lowball offer; so we're just filing that idea away for now. Might come to that though.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 1, 2021 - 11:58am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:




I have not tasted these but he's doing a yeast recipe donut which already sets it apart from the grocery store.

The bike shop was heading toward retirement already, and he preordered a smaller number of bikes during January... those are scheduled several months out. By March, the pandemic hit, so they said they'd be late getting orders shipped and allowed dealers to opt out or modify their pre-orders. Which he did. Then when he sold out immediately, they declined to sell him any more bikes unless he got a full container (many more bikes than he could possibly take in in one shipment) so he declined. Hindsight knows he could have had the best year in history, since there were no bikes available within 1000 miles of us this summer (Specialized brand, anyway). My son's bike was stolen in June (also a big spike in that activity) and we waited patiently for more to arrive but none ever did. By mid-summer it was clear that he was just going to spool it up. He was very busy repairing bikes that were last ridden during the Reagan years anyway, so new sales weren't critical.

In October, a bike that he'd special ordered in February arrived. He almost refused the shipment because the buyer had found something somewhere else, but decided to put it on the floor anyway. My wife happened to stop in to see if they had any tire pumps remaining since ours was shot, and happened to ask if any bikes came in. Well it just so happens...

After almost 50 years, and completely by random happenstance, the last bicycle sold by Larsen's Bicycles was to the grandson of the people who started the shop.
 
guess if it had to end, pretty cool way for the history of the bike shop to end.
suppose you also need to weigh retail leases are a buyers market in most towns...given all the failures. 


rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 1, 2021 - 10:36am



 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


 rgio wrote:


 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
My sister and I own the building that our parents bought and operated a bicycle shop out of for many years, and then the new owner of the bike shop just closed his doors in December. So now we're looking for tenants. Some folks recently moved here from Ohio and think our town needs a bakery. They've never run a business before; he's an avid home baker and she's worked in institutional kitchens (hospitals, schools) so anyway I spent the afternoon-to-midnight reviewing their business plan and making notes. It's partly "you need to get us this information before we'll rent to you/allow you begin remodeling" and partly "oh, honey, this is not realistic market research." 

I'd love for them to make a go of it, but I don't think I want anyone to be plastering "bankrupt" notices on the door in a year, either. And leave me to restore the building after it's been outfitted to have fryers and hoods in it. Oy. But I'm trying to nudge them into making good decisions without saying "you can't do that here."
 
My initial question....can they afford for it to fail?

If this is something "we always wanted to do" and they have the financial ability to get it off the ground, then get a deposit that will cover any repairs and move ahead.   If nobody else wants the space, NOT letting them take the risk could be expensive (for you).

If they need this to pay their bills, I'd be a lot more interested in the length of their runway and the quality of their products.  If I were them...I'd make you something to eat right now and drop it off...but that's me.

If they know what they're doing (ie food is good...), people will be looking for places to go very soon.  Good luck.
 

Absolutely, if this were some sort of wealthy person's retirement lark I wouldn't be losing any sleep. Just have the lawyer draw up a real good contract and sit back. But the success of the plan assumes the wife is going to put in 6 12 hour days and the dad 6 6 hour days in addition to his day job as a school bus driver. 

One part of their business plan includes a bulk foods store with pre-packaged "kits" of grains and ingredients for home bakers that he assembles himself. I conveyed to them that the potential for local/regional/national sales is limitless, and the risk is vastly less than a bakery. Couple that with cooking demonstrations and sales of specialty kitchen items, I think that's a lower-risk, higher margin business that they can train someone to operate in their absence and actually semi-retire from. Less waste and spoilage, less competition, less downside. We'll see what they think.
 
Youtube and the internet....lessons and sales for almost nothing.

Your comment made me think of this as proof anything (good) can take off on the internet.... Rancho Gordo

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