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2020 Elections - Ohmsen - Oct 31, 2020 - 3:48am
 
Counting with Pictures - ScottN - Oct 30, 2020 - 8:59pm
 
Things You Thought Today - Manbird - Oct 30, 2020 - 7:48pm
 
Trump Lies - Manbird - Oct 30, 2020 - 7:45pm
 
COVID-19 - Manbird - Oct 30, 2020 - 6:57pm
 
Radio Paradise NFL Pick'em Group - Manbird - Oct 30, 2020 - 6:47pm
 
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Joe Biden - R_P - Oct 30, 2020 - 3:32pm
 
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Media Bias - miamizsun - Oct 30, 2020 - 3:56am
 
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Supreme Court: Who's Next? - R_P - Oct 29, 2020 - 3:05pm
 
Questions. - pigtail - Oct 29, 2020 - 10:49am
 
Photos you have taken of your walks or hikes. - Antigone - Oct 29, 2020 - 6:05am
 
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The Obituary Page - ScottN - Oct 28, 2020 - 9:49pm
 
Add a "Modern mix" - darrio - Oct 28, 2020 - 6:59pm
 
what the hell, miamizsun? - oldviolin - Oct 28, 2020 - 6:10pm
 
Today in History - miamizsun - Oct 28, 2020 - 4:27pm
 
HALF A WORLD - oldviolin - Oct 28, 2020 - 8:53am
 
TWO WORDS - rgio - Oct 28, 2020 - 6:57am
 
Baseball, anyone? - miamizsun - Oct 28, 2020 - 4:31am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Oct 27, 2020 - 7:21pm
 
how do you feel right now? - kurtster - Oct 27, 2020 - 6:23pm
 
VTuner drop Radio Paradise’s main mix? - BillG - Oct 27, 2020 - 3:56pm
 
Environment - Ohmsen - Oct 27, 2020 - 2:39pm
 
Recommended documentaries - Ohmsen - Oct 27, 2020 - 2:33pm
 
Republican Party - Steely_D - Oct 27, 2020 - 1:28pm
 
• • • BRING OUT YOUR DEAD • • •  - oldviolin - Oct 27, 2020 - 11:45am
 
Great guitar faces - GINRUSH - Oct 27, 2020 - 11:27am
 
david bromberg - Antigone - Oct 27, 2020 - 6:09am
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Oct 26, 2020 - 7:27pm
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - R_P - Oct 26, 2020 - 4:59pm
 
::odd but intriguing:: - miamizsun - Oct 26, 2020 - 4:42pm
 
New Zealand - R_P - Oct 26, 2020 - 3:09pm
 
Favorite Quotes - westslope - Oct 26, 2020 - 2:04pm
 
Films you're excited about. - oldviolin - Oct 25, 2020 - 7:06pm
 
Rock Movies/Documentaries - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 25, 2020 - 6:29pm
 
Philosophy (Meaty Metaphysical Munchables!) - oldviolin - Oct 25, 2020 - 3:02pm
 
Quick! I need a chicken... - oldviolin - Oct 25, 2020 - 2:54pm
 
How's the weather? - haresfur - Oct 25, 2020 - 2:25pm
 
What's that smell? - Antigone - Oct 25, 2020 - 9:49am
 
De onde você ouve a Radio Paradise? Cidade/Local no Brasil - crishtiane - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:33pm
 
RPeeps I miss. - KurtfromLaQuinta - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:51pm
 
RightWingNutZ - R_P - Oct 24, 2020 - 5:01pm
 
The Dragons' Roost - Red_Dragon - Oct 24, 2020 - 3:53pm
 
More reggae, less Marley please - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:22am
 
What The Hell Buddy? - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:17am
 
Lyrics That Remind You of Someone - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:10am
 
Dialing 1-800-Manbird - oldviolin - Oct 24, 2020 - 10:09am
 
Music Videos - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:50am
 
Ambient Music - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:41am
 
Live Music - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:11am
 
The 1960s - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 9:03am
 
The war on funk is over! - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:57am
 
Play the Blues - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 8:56am
 
Prog Rockers Anonymous - Ohmsen - Oct 24, 2020 - 7:40am
 
Index » Radio Paradise/General » General Discussion » Oil Apocalypse, Global WARNING, Renewable energy
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Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Sep 11, 2020 - 2:37pm



 cc_rider wrote:

In most residential cases, I do not think it is worth it. There are too many different kinds of plastic, way too difficult for the average person to keep track of. However, I think there are opportunities in places like sports venues, where it's possible to control what comes in. If every plastic container was the same type, sorting would be much simpler.

Lighter-weight (plastic) packaging can be more beneficial, or at least, 'less harmful' than some other types. Like returnable glass bottles: they realized they were burning more gas hauling empties, so they switched to thinner/lighter glass - then of course to plastic. Weight savings equals less fuel burned.

Similar argument with plastic grocery bags. One pound of plastic grocery bags might be maybe 100 bags? One pound of paper bags is a fraction of that. Plus paper bags are high-grade wood pulp - recycled paper isn't strong enough. You have to harvest and process those trees, ship them, etc. There's a legitimate argument that those annoying plastic bags are better, overall, than paper - some even say better than reusable bags.

I'd like to see more investment in industrial hemp products. Hemp is superior to wood pulp in many, many ways.

c.

 

Nah - Lazy has already debunked that efficiency. Hemp is just a tree-hugger's pipe dream.
cc_rider

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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 11, 2020 - 12:32pm



 black321 wrote:
so is recycling plastic worth it? 
obviously minimizing plastic is preferred, but that is so very difficult in today's world.
once again, is our focus on all things efficient (plastic being lighter, cheaper, easier to process...) backfiring?
 
In most residential cases, I do not think it is worth it. There are too many different kinds of plastic, way too difficult for the average person to keep track of. However, I think there are opportunities in places like sports venues, where it's possible to control what comes in. If every plastic container was the same type, sorting would be much simpler.

Lighter-weight (plastic) packaging can be more beneficial, or at least, 'less harmful' than some other types. Like returnable glass bottles: they realized they were burning more gas hauling empties, so they switched to thinner/lighter glass - then of course to plastic. Weight savings equals less fuel burned.

Similar argument with plastic grocery bags. One pound of plastic grocery bags might be maybe 100 bags? One pound of paper bags is a fraction of that. Plus paper bags are high-grade wood pulp - recycled paper isn't strong enough. You have to harvest and process those trees, ship them, etc. There's a legitimate argument that those annoying plastic bags are better, overall, than paper - some even say better than reusable bags.

I'd like to see more investment in industrial hemp products. Hemp is superior to wood pulp in many, many ways.
c.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 11, 2020 - 10:49am

so is recycling plastic worth it? 
obviously minimizing plastic is preferred, but that is so very difficult in today's world.
once again, is our focus on all things efficient (plastic being lighter, cheaper, easier to process...) backfiring?
cc_rider

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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 11, 2020 - 7:56am



 Red_Dragon wrote:
 
As an engineer who's designed a LOT of plastic parts, I routinely specify things like 'XXX Grade virgin PC/ABS - maximum 10% regrind permissible'.

Often it's a specific company (Bayer is a big one - yes, the aspirin people), PC is polycarbonate, ABS is Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene, PC/ABS is a blend of both. Plus color and finish specifications.
'Regrind' is pieces from the molding process - runners, etc. that can be tossed back into the batch. If you ever built a plastic model, it's the 'tree' the parts were still attached to. 'Regrind' is limited because the plastic loses some of its properties with every re-processing - just as the article states.

To be fair, virtually every part I design has strict cosmetic requirements - think Apple products. Pure materials are required for process control and aesthetics.

I'm not sure why nobody is pursuing, or at least hasn't publicized, using plastic refuse as fuel. It started out as oil, right? We know it burns - light a piece of styrofoam sometime - so why not process it back from whence it came? Worst case it's a zero-sum game - you generate enough fuel to power the process - but that's still better than endlessly filling up landfills.
c.



Red_Dragon

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Posted: Sep 11, 2020 - 7:13am

How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 5:28am

 oldslabsides wrote:

No, that's not what is implied.  What is implied is exactly what I said: people should get a clue and rearrange their lives to fit the realities of a world wherein there are too many of them demanding too much of a finite set of resources.  Sadly, I doubt that's gonna happen.

 

Life is being rearranged as we speak.  Has been going on in earnest for the past 5 or so years, since oil spiked the last time.  Began about 10 years earlier after 9-11.  Not because of 9-11, but about that time when the following recession hit.  People lost jobs due to offshoring, automation, technology improvements, whatever. 

Rearranging 300 million people takes some time to do, especially when we don't even know what the jobs of the future are going to be and where they will be.  Alternative fuel and power source development are well underway but realistically it will take several decades to get away from petroleum as the primary source.  And I do believe it will happen, but only when the alternatives are practical and affordable.  The market place will determine that.  We already have real alternatives as miamizsun has tried to point out with the Thorium reactors, others will follow, it is happening.

But planes will not fly on batteries, trucks will not roll on batteries, and neither will busses.  We have an oil glut and it will continue.  The US has 25% of the world's oil reserves according to a recent study.  The trucking industry is in the process of switching to natural gas.  That will cause problems for refiners with a falling demand for diesel.  You cannot make gasoline without making diesel.  That is the reason that gas is less expensive in the winter, diesel production goes up to meet home heating needs, resulting in an oversupply of gasoline.  And vice versa in the summer with summer car travel.  Eventually the US will become an exporter of diesel fuel due to oversupply.

I have seen electric charging stations in California as well as here in Ohio.  In Cal, they are being used, but here in Ohio, they are not, because electric cars are impractical in areas that experience hard winters and long commutes in the cold.  The heaters in these electric cars still run on gasoline, just as the auxiliary heaters in VW's did some 40 years ago.  The more things change, the more they remain the same.

But I have faith.  When the range of an electric car hits 100 miles on a charge, then there will be a demand for them, but 40 miles, just ain't doin it and won't.  But my point and the point of many others is that we need cheap oil to survive the transition.  The transition has begun and will not stop, even if oil gets cheap.  The goal of reducing pollution is the driving force.  The cost of pollution is very high, as in spent nuclear fuel rods, coal ash and sulfur from refining crude.  And CFL's are the Windows ME of lighting, speaking about pollution.  I am already well into LED's for my lighting needs, paying a higher price for a better and greener product.  Think how long it took to switch over from bias ply tires to radials.  Took decades, but it happened.

Politics and the rest of the world not withstanding ... 




sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 2:12am

 oldslabsides wrote:

No, that's not what is implied.  What is implied is exactly what I said: people should get a clue and rearrange their lives to fit the realities of a world wherein there are too many of them demanding too much of a finite set of resources.  Sadly, I doubt that's gonna happen.

 
You have it all wrong, it is Obama's fault as soon as we throw him out gas prices will go down, our lawns will turn greener and we will all live happily ever after.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar



Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 10:22pm

 kurtster wrote:

Somehow my reply this morning disappeared.

In it I asked if that implied that the government should tell us where to live.  That was oversimplistic.  But no less oversimplistic than stating that more than a 30 mile commute is irresponsible.

There are so many reasons why it cannot happen except in urban centers in the Northeastern US.  America is not built vertically with 1,000 people living in apartment buildings except in a few places.  Home ownership cements people into locations that may have been close to employment at one time, but changing jobs changes commutes for example.  Your solution would not work in SoCal for example.  People would kill for a 30 mile commute, yet the reality of finding afforable housing takes people far away from their jobs requiring long commutes.  Public transportation is a joke in SoCal.  It exists, but it does not go places people go. 

Housing lotteries were common in the 80's there due to a shortage of housing.  Your vision requires everyone to move into cities and give up rural life altogether.  I abhor city living.  The noise, crime, pollution, high costs of food and the hassle of traffic and getting around just plain sucks and is not worth it, for me.  I haven't owned a vehicle that gets less than 30 mpg for over 20 years.  I've done my due diligence.  I made it out to a rural setting and will not give it up.  If and when I get a vehicle that gets 40 mpg, I want to move farther out, not closer. 

 
No, that's not what is implied.  What is implied is exactly what I said: people should get a clue and rearrange their lives to fit the realities of a world wherein there are too many of them demanding too much of a finite set of resources.  Sadly, I doubt that's gonna happen.
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 5:43pm

 oldslabsides wrote:

We need to use even less.  I'm hoping that at some point it occurs to a significant portion of suburbia that a thirty-mile commute is ridiculous and they start relocating closer to their places of employment.

 
Somehow my reply this morning disappeared.

In it I asked if that implied that the government should tell us where to live.  That was oversimplistic.  But no less oversimplistic than stating that more than a 30 mile commute is irresponsible.

There are so many reasons why it cannot happen except in urban centers in the Northeastern US.  America is not built vertically with 1,000 people living in apartment buildings except in a few places.  Home ownership cements people into locations that may have been close to employment at one time, but changing jobs changes commutes for example.  Your solution would not work in SoCal for example.  People would kill for a 30 mile commute, yet the reality of finding afforable housing takes people far away from their jobs requiring long commutes.  Public transportation is a joke in SoCal.  It exists, but it does not go places people go. 

Housing lotteries were common in the 80's there due to a shortage of housing.  Your vision requires everyone to move into cities and give up rural life altogether.  I abhor city living.  The noise, crime, pollution, high costs of food and the hassle of traffic and getting around just plain sucks and is not worth it, for me.  I haven't owned a vehicle that gets less than 30 mpg for over 20 years.  I've done my due diligence.  I made it out to a rural setting and will not give it up.  If and when I get a vehicle that gets 40 mpg, I want to move farther out, not closer. 
Proclivities

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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 7:23am

 kurtster wrote:

Pardon my hyperbole.  Domestic oil consumption has peaked, bottom line.

 
I figured you were being hyperbolic.  Yes, consumption is lower than a few years ago, but I don't know if that means it won't increase again; at these prices, it doesn't seem likely though.
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 7:19am

 Proclivities wrote:

There is no way that our present crude oil consumption is "less than ever".  The growing population and resulting number of drivers, alone, would disprove that.  It's lower than 2005-07, but higher than 1985, for example.

 
Pardon my hyperbole.  Domestic oil consumption has peaked, bottom line.
Proclivities

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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 7:07am

 kurtster wrote:

We are already using less than ever here in the states.  Demand peaked several years ago.

 
There is no way that our present crude oil consumption is "less than ever".  The growing population and resulting number of drivers, alone, would disprove that.  It's lower than 2005-07, but higher than 1985, for example.

petro chart


Red_Dragon

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Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 6:55am

 kurtster wrote:

We are already using less than ever here in the states.  Demand peaked several years ago.

 
We need to use even less.  I'm hoping that at some point it occurs to a significant portion of suburbia that a thirty-mile commute is ridiculous and they start relocating closer to their places of employment.
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 6:51am

 oldslabsides wrote:

I like high gas prices in the sense that eventually people will start figuring out how to use less of the stuff.

 
We are already using less than ever here in the states.  Demand peaked several years ago.
hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 6:46am

 hippiechick wrote: 


Red_Dragon

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Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 6:45am

 kurtster wrote:


Joe Kennedy III calls for ending ‘cheap oil’

As gas prices continue to soar around the country, Joe Kennedy III, the Democratic candidate for Rep. Barney Frank’s seat, wrote an online letter to supporters calling for an end to “cheap oil.”



 
I like high gas prices in the sense that eventually people will start figuring out how to use less of the stuff.
kurtster

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Location: drifting
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 6:34am

 jagdriver wrote:
Obama Likes High Gasoline Prices, But Won't Admit It

So Congress extended the payroll tax cut.... great. What they're not talking about is how that money is being rerouted directly to the oil companies. Never mind tensions in Iran and that Libya isn't back up to full production; many U.S. refineries are simultaneously offline and U.S. oil producers are getting a better price for refined products in Asia... at OUR expense!

Barack doesn't understand that the current high prices at the pump cannot be tolerated for long. Drop him a line and wake him up.

EDIT: And find the cheapest gas price in your area.

 

Joe Kennedy III calls for ending ‘cheap oil’

As gas prices continue to soar around the country, Joe Kennedy III, the Democratic candidate for Rep. Barney Frank’s seat, wrote an online letter to supporters calling for an end to “cheap oil.”


hippiechick

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Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Apr 19, 2012 - 6:32am

Gulf Seafood Deformities Raise Questions Among Scientists And Fisherman (VIDEO)


jagdriver

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Location: Now with a New York state of mind
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2012 - 2:31pm

Obama Likes High Gasoline Prices, But Won't Admit It

So Congress extended the payroll tax cut.... great. What they're not talking about is how that money is being rerouted directly to the oil companies. Never mind tensions in Iran and that Libya isn't back up to full production; many U.S. refineries are simultaneously offline and U.S. oil producers are getting a better price for refined products in Asia... at OUR expense!

Barack doesn't understand that the current high prices at the pump cannot be tolerated for long. Drop him a line and wake him up.

EDIT: And find the cheapest gas price in your area.


fuh2

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Location: Mexican beach paradise
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 13, 2007 - 3:16pm