miamizsun wrote: did he say horde lands? I think Putin is going to turn this into a war of attrition rather than a hot war. Every time he so much as moves a finger, Ukraine and NATO shiver in fear (even if it's just some of them). That wears people down. Point being, Putin is trying to maximise his leverage. Play off the EU against each other, drive a wedge between NATO members, still sell gas (Europe needs it, at least for the time being), keep the money coming in, play the strong patriot in front of his people in the face of a foreign threat, win the next round of elections, kill his opponents, that sort of thing. I didn't realise the demographics of the Russian people were so precipitous. That changes things quite a bit.
yeah putin has literally put russia into a well known and legendary quagmire in a few months when that ground thaws, any vehicle is going to be sitting/operating in a giant mudhole (maybe a lesson from ww2?) i agree he is trying to max out his leverage and i think he wants negotiate some sort of deal while saving face
demographics are a huge problem for russia and big players around the globe china is the fastest aging country on the planet, their one child policy worked very well and is going to be a major challenge
generally i agree with much of this information in his presentation (esp the demographics) have a look and make of it what you will enjoy (for educational purposes only)
I think Putin is going to turn this into a war of attrition rather than a hot war. Every time he so much as moves a finger, Ukraine and NATO shiver in fear (even if it's just some of them). That wears people down. Point being, Putin is trying to maximise his leverage. Play off the EU against each other, drive a wedge between NATO members, still sell gas (Europe needs it, at least for the time being), keep the money coming in, play the strong patriot in front of his people in the face of a foreign threat, win the next round of elections, kill his opponents, that sort of thing.
I didn't realise the demographics of the Russian people were so precipitous. That changes things quite a bit.
In post WWII Russia, Stalin banned the possession of any western music. All records allowed in the country had to be of Russian composers. But there was an underground hungry for Western popular music—everything from jazz and blues to rock & roll. But smuggling vinyl was dangerous, and acquiring the scarce material to make copies of those records that did make it into the country was expensive and very risky. An ingenuous solution to this problem began to emerge in the form of “bone music," or sometimes called "bones 'n' ribs" music, or simply Ribs. A young 19 year-old sound engineer Ruslan Bogoslowski in Leningrad changed the game when he created a device to bootleg western albums so he could distribute them across Russia. Problem was he couldn't find material to bootleg his pressings onto, vinyl was scare as were all petroleum products after the war. Then, one day he stumbled upon a pile of discarded X-rays. It worked. At the time, Russian law mandated that all X-rays had to be destroyed after 1 year of storage because they were flammable so he dug through trash bins and paid off orderlies for x-rays and for 20 years he handmade about 1,000,000 bootlegs onto X-ray film of everything from classical to the Beach Boys, eventually spending five years imprisoned in Siberia for this rebellion. For over 20 years, Bone Music was the only way Russian music lovers could get western music, which they played at "music and coffee parties" in their kitchens, away from the KGB ears and eyes. So I had to find one. This is a 78 rpm recording of the Indian Song "Awaara" by Raj Kapoor on an exposed Chest X-ray. Probably around 1951. Each Rib, was handmade, and one of a kind. Bone Music. A testament to the underground courage to subvert authority, rebellion, and the love of music. The spirit of rock n roll.
And from the comments on the reddit page, another one:
it was for their own good comrade! western culture, especially music, is evil!
Bones And Grooves: The Weird Secret History Of Soviet X-Ray Music
...Stephen Coates, the leader of a British band called The Real Tuesday Weld, happened on this secret history by accident.
He apparently made a documentary.
Wow. Fascinating. Went through all of it. Did find a Ted Talk by Coates I haven't listened to yet though.
A take away from the NPR interview that struck me as relevant to things of today. Especially the interviewer's question which is bolded below.
... talking to people who bought these records when they were young — even the tiniest thread of melody, of this forbidden sound, was so exciting. And it led to a different world, really, a world of freedom, [even though the music was] not obviously anti-Soviet. You would think, "Why would that mambo be regarded as something worth forbidding?"
I was actually thinking that myself. It opens up all kinds of questions about what people think is dangerous, doesn't it?
It really does. And of course, in some [cases] it's obvious: rock 'n' roll, jazz, the music of America, the music of the UK. But with other stuff, it got very strange in the Soviet Union.
I'll leave that there and move on.
There are some current attempts to build home record lathes, Phonocut being the biggest and best attempt so far. It is very good, yet has yet to make it into production and the initial cost of $1100 when I first became aware of it has now jumped to around $10k since going to their website just now and poking around.
Thanks for bringing up this important part of music history. I may have heard about these bone records before way back when in the 60's but if I did, they were long ago forgotten as just a piece of trivia about life in the USSR along with the cold, the terrible food, housing and long lines for bread and toilet paper.
In post WWII Russia, Stalin banned the possession of any western music. All records allowed in the country had to be of Russian composers. But there was an underground hungry for Western popular music—everything from jazz and blues to rock & roll. But smuggling vinyl was dangerous, and acquiring the scarce material to make copies of those records that did make it into the country was expensive and very risky. An ingenuous solution to this problem began to emerge in the form of “bone music," or sometimes called "bones 'n' ribs" music, or simply Ribs. A young 19 year-old sound engineer Ruslan Bogoslowski in Leningrad changed the game when he created a device to bootleg western albums so he could distribute them across Russia. Problem was he couldn't find material to bootleg his pressings onto, vinyl was scare as were all petroleum products after the war. Then, one day he stumbled upon a pile of discarded X-rays. It worked. At the time, Russian law mandated that all X-rays had to be destroyed after 1 year of storage because they were flammable so he dug through trash bins and paid off orderlies for x-rays and for 20 years he handmade about 1,000,000 bootlegs onto X-ray film of everything from classical to the Beach Boys, eventually spending five years imprisoned in Siberia for this rebellion. For over 20 years, Bone Music was the only way Russian music lovers could get western music, which they played at "music and coffee parties" in their kitchens, away from the KGB ears and eyes. So I had to find one. This is a 78 rpm recording of the Indian Song "Awaara" by Raj Kapoor on an exposed Chest X-ray. Probably around 1951. Each Rib, was handmade, and one of a kind. Bone Music. A testament to the underground courage to subvert authority, rebellion, and the love of music. The spirit of rock n roll.
And from the comments on the reddit page, another one:
Very interesting. I certainly do remember how non Soviet music was banned and knew of the underground distribution of music from the outside. IIRC Billy Joel was one of the first major acts to perform in Russia. Never knew about the repurposing of X Ray plates. Pure genius.
Today, Russia is a major source of Mint copies for 60's 1st pressings of Rock music. Mostly from European countries and also a lot of Japanese items as well. Amazing that they were somehow safely kept hidden for decades. Also many stories of counterfeit pressings, both vinyl and CD's. This just reinforces that they do have the wherewithal and ability to counterfeit vinyl.
Here are just two Russian seller's listings I found at random just by searching Led Zep I. Many more of them with mind blowing inventories.
In post WWII Russia, Stalin banned the possession of any western music. All records allowed in the country had to be of Russian composers. But there was an underground hungry for Western popular musicâeverything from jazz and blues to rock & roll. But smuggling vinyl was dangerous, and acquiring the scarce material to make copies of those records that did make it into the country was expensive and very risky.
An ingenuous solution to this problem began to emerge in the form of âbone music," or sometimes called "bones 'n' ribs" music, or simply Ribs.
A young 19 year-old sound engineer Ruslan Bogoslowski in Leningrad changed the game when he created a device to bootleg western albums so he could distribute them across Russia. Problem was he couldn't find material to bootleg his pressings onto, vinyl was scare as were all petroleum products after the war. Then, one day he stumbled upon a pile of discarded X-rays. It worked. At the time, Russian law mandated that all X-rays had to be destroyed after 1 year of storage because they were flammable so he dug through trash bins and paid off orderlies for x-rays and for 20 years he handmade about 1,000,000 bootlegs onto X-ray film of everything from classical to the Beach Boys, eventually spending five years imprisoned in Siberia for this rebellion.
For over 20 years, Bone Music was the only way Russian music lovers could get western music, which they played at "music and coffee parties" in their kitchens, away from the KGB ears and eyes.
So I had to find one. This is a 78 rpm recording of the Indian Song "Awaara" by Raj Kapoor on an exposed Chest X-ray. Probably around 1951. Each Rib, was handmade, and one of a kind.
Bone Music. A testament to the underground courage to subvert authority, rebellion, and the love of music. The spirit of rock n roll.
And from the comments on the reddit page, another one:
for me this was sort of difficult to follow (due to accent) while driving, but once seated at home i found it worthwhile
highlights really poor thinking (or thought process) of the extremes typical pre-modern and post-modern framework authoritarian rule and an unabashed lack of fidelity to objective science what could go wrong? ;-)
and this guy is supposedly very influential to putin...
um, I wasn't trying to make anyone feel stupid, just pointing out that the Soviet Union collapsed thirty years ago, Azerbaijan was an independent nation before the Soviet Union was even created, has a population that is 97% Muslim and is overwhelmingly of Turkic ethnicity. Sure it has a Soviet past, but it's certainly not Russian. People who come from small countries like I do get their feathers ruffled pretty quickly when big neighbours try to subsume them within their cultural hegemony, so proclaiming your love of Russia then posting a video of Azerbaijan jarred with me. That's all.
I think Putin is going to turn this into a war of attrition rather than a hot war. Every time he so much as moves a finger, Ukraine and NATO shiver in fear (even if it's just some of them). That wears people down. Point being, Putin is trying to maximise his leverage. Play off the EU against each other, drive a wedge between NATO members, still sell gas (Europe needs it, at least for the time being), keep the money coming in, play the strong patriot in front of his people in the face of a foreign threat, win the next round of elections, kill his opponents, that sort of thing. I didn't realise the demographics of the Russian people were so precipitous. That changes things quite a bit.
