winter wrote:
And that "same as cash" when a fee is imposed for using the card should be changed, imo.  I am a small businessman.  I have and use a credit/debit card clearing house.  It is a major expense for me.  I believe people who pay cash are entitled to a discount.  It steams me when, as I saw the other day, someone "swipe" for NINETY cents!  The only profit there was for the bank.

The "plastic money" concept may be the most successful marketing effort of all time. I advocate carrying a modest amount of cash and use that for purchases under, say, $25.  Checks are still fine too (when they don't bounce!).

 winter wrote: 
True, but a lot of smaller merchants do it all the time. The $5 minimum is really common here in convenience stores.  It depends a lot on the merchant and your relationship with them.

 winter wrote: 
CC and debit cards do not get declined any more.  But a GC does run out of funds.

I remember about 5 years ago the first time I ever had an experience where my CC was maxed out but still accepted.  I knew I was close, and it was within the monthly interest fee which posts at a certain time.  I miss calculated and holy fark.

I called the bank and said WTF, I was expecting it to be declined if I had maxed out.  They said that htey no longer declined transactions based upon available credit.  They just let it go through collecting all the overdraft fees and raising the core interest rate.  I was able to get a Mulligan and had some fees reversed.  But it only had to happen once to me.  It seems that has become the way of plastic.  Lack of available funds no longer results in a decline in most cases.  Most dangerous to those who live life near the max.

 kurtster wrote: 
Yeah, they'd get busted for that. I get why they do it, but it won't fly with the associations - they see cash and checks as their competitors, and they are pretty strict about enforcing the "same as cash" part of the contract.

 kurtster wrote: 
You make a good point about the change in spending habits. Lot harder to remember you're broke when you use plastic.

That said, isn't that a habit and mindset we should change? If you keep your accounts in order, is it any harder to remember "I have $30 in the bank" than "I have $30 in my wallet"? I think even with cash you still have to remember "there's nothing else in the bank, so this has to last until payday".

I don't know how many people I talked to who got upset because their cards were declined or they got charged for going overlimit. "How am I supposed to know how much I've spent?" "Well, you know what you're spending before we do. Keep track just like you would a checking account." 

 winter wrote: 
Hmmm.  Did not know that.  One place I know of will say that we will pay the sales tax, if you pay in cash.  I suppose that nullifies your example ?

Upon rereading your post, it is still a discount and subject to your example.

 ScottFromWyoming wrote: 
Yeah, I don't like checks either. All the bulkiness of cash with none of the security.

 ScottFromWyoming wrote: 

Yep, there certainly is a place for it.  But it does seperate the spender from seeing the value of their funds and how they dimish.  Lot different in feeling that wad shrink in your hand and waving by, by to dead presidents one at a time, than just going swipe ! damn, I thought I had more left.

The spender has the most at risk in the perception of their spending habits.  The receiver is already accepting the tranny fee and is just grateful for the sale in the first place.

It is the way of the future no doubt. 

Checks ?  About the only place I use them any more is for rent payments and maybe a car payment.  But I always keep two with me in case the need should arise.  One extra incase I screw up writing the first one.  Spelling does matter when writing a check !

 kurtster wrote: 
Your math is off on the 8%, and usually it's more like you pay $105 for a $100 card, but I see your point.

Personally I'm less worried about the data mining and privacy aspects. Sure, it's not information I'd put on a billboard, but I'm not buying anything illegal or immoral. Let the banks and merchants and marketers analyze it. I still do what I do.

I think the cashless ship has already sailed. Much like the "only metal can be money, no paper currency" ship. We could come up with some kind of feeless electronic currency, I suppose. But the days of cash are numbered, IMO. 

 islander wrote: 
If they get caught doing that (say, from a disgruntled customer reporting them) they can lose their license to accept credit cards. One of the terms of their agreement with the Visa/MC associations is that they must give the same terms for cash or plastic: no discounts, no extra fees, no minimum transaction for plastic. Back in my days with the bank I saw any number of merchants try that and get their hands slapped.

 kurtster wrote: 
A lot of smaller merchants will discount for cash as well. They can save 2-5% on their cost if you pay with cash, so if you ask, they will often offer to give you a portion of that back if you will pay with cash.

 kurtster wrote: 
Squareup is an awesome idea. I was selling cotton candy yesterday for the March of Dimes and two kids had $20 bills, the first one wiped me out of change. Another kid had a credit card but no cash (this kid's a 3rd grader, I suspect it was a gift card, didn't inspect it) but I couldn't separate him from his money. With squareup I could have zipped $3 bucks offa him like *that*. Imagine having a garage sale and those old pros come with $5 max so they don't overspend... but *szwoop* that moose head with the mange is in their trunk and I'm up $20.
 
Anyway, the alternative is checks. What a horrible concept that needs to die asap. Huge fees to the check writer, sometimes to the merchant, even if there's no overdraw involved. One local bank charges a fee if your deposit contains more than X number of checks, I think 10. If there's insufficient funds, the merchant is out the product AND risks other fees, and the check writer is subject to huge fees as well. Of course they shouldn't write bad checks but that problem's been around forever, it ain't going away. The swipe fee is a bargain to ensure the merchant they'll get paid for their product, and should also protect the customer from themselves to a certain degree. 

 winter wrote: 
True as long as there is cash.  But do remember that with cash there is no middleman transaction fee.  Every electonic transaction does have a fee.  That is the part that is being lost in the big picture.  Once cash is converted to electronic whatever, it then becomes subject to fees.

Your $100 spent on a card could net down to $95.  Everytime you use it, the person accepting it loses 3% at least.  So that $100 has had 8% skimmed right off the top.  ATM fees could drive the percentage much higher if you give up $2 per transaction taking out $20 at a pop for when you want to go back to cash in some cases.

And then there is a trail of transactions left behind which can be analyzed 8 ways to Sunday with data mining.  Cash has no middlemen and is anonymous.  A huge benefit.

 kurtster wrote: 
If nothing else, you'll always be able to buy preloaded Visa gift cards with cash.

It won't be much longer now.

Hey buddy, can you spare a swipe ?

Start accepting credit cards today.

Johnny Cash? No. I think he's quite acceptable. Most of the time.

 hobiejoe wrote: 
if I were an author and made up a name like "Standard and Poors" or "Moody's" to symbolize the general malaise and moral bankruptcy, I would never get a book published. reality has much more generous editors it seems...

*note to self* chart the local cockle banks before it is too late.

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote: 
If I was working for the "government" (you really have to wonder if these edjits could use a calender properly) it wouldn't be a Murdoch paper like the News Of The Screws any more that one went to anymore.
 
Boats have been burnt and UK politics is becoming even more extraordinary, and very, dare I say it, exciting. And then one realises the devastation that the tories are causing outside of the bubble that the well-off live in and it's utterly heartbreaking.
 
For instance, they've killed the NHS. Not many people have noticed yet, but it's gone. Lots of ads for private healthcare circulating now.
 
I could go on, but it's too depressing.
 
Harrumph

 hobiejoe wrote: 
when did you start working for the government?

Not if it's in the form of used, unmarked notes with non-sequential serial numbers, no.
 
Just leave the briefcase at the Lost Property office at platform 5, Paddington Station, on your own and make sure you aren't being followed.
 
Any funny stuff and the pictures are in The News Of The World next Sunday. Do we understand each other? Good.