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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Guns Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 474, 475, 476  Next
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R_P

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Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 10:53pm


kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 10:19pm

regarding the partisan divide on guns.

the left wants no guns, period.

the right wants to keep their guns as guaranteed by the 2nd amendment.

the left pretends to try and find a middle ground under the guise of gun control.

when the right brings up the blatant failures of gun control, the left just says we need more laws.

when the right brings up the failures of gun laws in places like Chicago as an example of how the most stringent laws do not work, at all, the left changes the subject and refuses to acknowledge the blatant failures let alone even discuss them.

when the right finds that the left does not want to discuss the failure of gun laws other than to say we need more laws and that will fix everything, the right does not take the left seriously on the issue.  especially when the laws on the books are hardly even enforced anymore.  only a fool would believe that more laws that will not be enforced will solve the problem.

the lack of enforcement is taken to be intentional by the right.  the lack of enforcement is done so the left can say, see we have all these laws and they do not work,  we need to confiscate the guns as it is the only sure way to fix the problem.

and here we are.

imo ...
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 9:36pm

Interesting piece in the Guardian
In 2018, CNN investigated school shootings worldwide between 2009 and 2018. The US, as it turns out, has “57 times as many shootings as the other six G7 countries combined”. What an appalling statistic.

...When you moved to a colony as a settler, Hannah Arendt observed long ago, you freed yourself from the morality of your home country and acted any way you wished, as long as you had your carbine by your side. Colonizers were “functionaries of violence”, Arendt explains, able to define themselves both by their opposition to their home country and by their brutal subjugation of the natives around them. This particular kind of colonial arrogance sounds familiar. In American mythology, we call it rugged individualism. 
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 7:05pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:

Somebody just shot up a medical complex in Tulsa; 3 more sacrifices to the gun god - plus the shooter.



Now it's 4 dead plus the shooter, who seems to have died by his own hand.
Antigone

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Location: A house, in a Virginian Valley
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Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 5:42pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:
Somebody just shot up a medical complex in Tulsa; 3 more sacrifices to the gun god - plus the shooter.
 
That’s the hospital where my friend, who was raped and beaten, was treated. She hasn’t checked in, and I’m concerned about her. She’s out of the hospital, but obviously still getting treated for her serious injuries. 
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 5:14pm

Somebody just shot up a medical complex in Tulsa; 3 more sacrifices to the gun god - plus the shooter.
islander

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Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 5:13pm

 oldviolin wrote:

Dang. I must be losing my touch...
{#Wink}


A broken clock falls on a blind squirrel once in a blue moon. 
haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 4:03pm

 Jiggz wrote:



Baseball bats? Cricket bats? Chainsaws? Hammers? Hatchets? Socks stuffed with flashlight batteries? Cars? Rocks or stones? Catapults? Rat poison? Fence posts? 2by4's? Meat cleavers? Paring knives? What about empty bottles?
Fire extinguishers?
Razor blades?
Aerosol cans that can turn into mini flamethrowers?
Swimming pool acid?


OK - that's your vision of the world you want to create and live in. I think you are misguided.

"You can only possess or carry weapons if you do so safely"....sounds ok, with exceptions, much like your firearms laws as far as I understand them.

Still doesn't solve what appears to be an almost uniquely US problem of a medicated, sad, lonely crazy person wanting to do harm to a bunch of other innocents.
I guess in your world that couldn't possibly be worth examining as a problem. 
Keep on pissing into the gale....keep infringing on the personal liberties of everyone because of the actions of very few....and enjoy what comes to you.
As I said - I think you are misguided, but I suppose the Kool-Aid was tasty.

It's my vision of the world I do live in and it's not too bad. Look, I do have some differences of opinion, like I think carrying a Swiss Army knife just because you think you might need it is no big deal and I get nervous when you leave too much to the discretion of the police but overall it works. If you are a chef heading to work with your knife roll, no big deal; if you are some rando waving a cleaver around in the central business district, the police can and will stop you. 

Yeah, lots of things can be turned into weapons but they aren't optimal weapons. The general principles are to make it hard and to minimise the damage. I'd rather face someone with an aerosol can than an AK-47.

I suppose you have a point about the medication. If a million people can't be productive members of society because they are too depressed to do anything at all, they probably won't have the energy to shoot up a school. Talk about infringing on freedom.

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 3:24pm

 oldviolin wrote:

Hatred is a product of fear, and fear is increasingly nurtured in the arena of instant information. IOW, the algorithm of fear haunts the world of knowledge by using the input of personal insecurity against it....
 
Well put.  I'll just add that fear is a primal emotion and easily exploited and nurtured as you mention.

I will note one exception, broccoli.  So many people seem to hate it.  Probably because it is good for you ... {#Wink}
R_P

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Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 1:53pm

The 25-count indictment includes both first-degree murder charges and second-degree murder charges as hate crimes, as well as three counts of attempted murder and single counts of gun and domestic terrorism charges. Mr. Gendron has pleaded not guilty.

Mr. Gendron, an avowed white supremacist, is accused of shooting 13 people, almost all of them Black, at a Tops supermarket in a largely Black section of Buffalo, New York’s second largest city. Three of those shot on that Saturday afternoon survived the attack, which was one of the worst racist massacres in recent American history.

oldviolin

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 1:21pm

 Red_Dragon wrote:
 oldviolin wrote:

Hatred is a product of fear, and fear is increasingly nurtured in the arena of instant information. IOW, the algorithm of fear haunts the world of knowledge by using the input of personal insecurity against it....
Holy shit, I get that!
 
Dang. I must be losing my touch...{#Wink}
Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 12:31pm

 oldviolin wrote:

Hatred is a product of fear, and fear is increasingly nurtured in the arena of instant information. IOW, the algorithm of fear haunts the world of knowledge by using the input of personal insecurity against it....


Holy shit, I get that!
R_P

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Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 12:08pm

 steeler wrote:
If, as it appears from your posts, this is more a uniquely American problem due, in your estimation, to a over-medicated populace, why do you think almost all other “westernized” countries have way more restrictions on gun ownership/possession?

*Cough* Portugal *Cough*

oldviolin

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Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 11:37am

 kurtster wrote:


In this context, I would go with hate is a learned thing, a function of nurture.
 
Hatred is a product of fear, and fear is increasingly nurtured in the arena of instant information. IOW, the algorithm of fear haunts the world of knowledge by using the input of personal insecurity against it....
steeler

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Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 6:14am

 Jiggz wrote:

. . .

Keep on pissing into the gale....keep infringing on the personal liberties of everyone because of the actions of very few....and enjoy what comes to you.

. . .


If, as it appears from your posts, this is more a uniquely American problem due, in your estimation, to a over-medicated populace, why do you think almost all other “westernized” countries have way more restrictions on gun ownership/possession?
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 6:04am

 Red_Dragon wrote:

Mental illness is not to blame in most cases; hate is a choice..
 
So hate has nothing to do with mental health and well being ?  Hate is a natural proper everyday function based on simple realities according to your thinking.

With mental health and psychological issues in general, I was taught way back in Psych 101 a thing about nature versus nurture.

In this context, I would go with hate is a learned thing, a function of nurture.


Jiggz



Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 4:34am

 rgio wrote:

So 3 dead kids vs. 19 dead kids don't matter?  Ask any of the parents in Texas, and they would cut off an hand to have their kids attacked with a knife over an automatic rifle.  So would the cops.  With a knife (Kurts link below), the assistant principal took down the attacker with his bare hands.  With an AR-15, 19 cops waited 40 minutes to get up the nerve to enter the room.

You can't honestly think that the number of dead doesn't matter?  It's the only thing that matters.


Did you read the article about 22 being stabbed?

He was later charged with four counts of attempted homicide and 21 counts of assault. The injured, some with serious stab wounds, were as young as 14.

All are expected to survive.

You many not be able to stop crazy, but you can minimize the damage.

It's THE argument for gun control.  A kid with 2 knives stabs 22 and they all live.  A kid with an AR-15 shoots 38 people, kills 21 and injures 17.   Your kids have to go to school tomorrow and someone is going to show up with the weapon of your choosing....a knife or an AR-15....which do you choose? 

There is no point in arguing this.  If you can't objectively see that guns are the single most important factor in the number of deaths, nor can you agree that keeping that number as small as humanly possible should be the goal of any society, it's pointless to engage in a discussion.


We are making the same point, but I would posit that because I don't believe that gun control will solve the problem whilst you do, you believe that we are at odds over this.
We aren't.

The US has this problem where soloists or small cadres seem to want to cause harm to large groups. Whilst not unique to the US it might as well be, based on sheer numbers of such attacks.

I don't believe gun control is going to remedy the cause, you seem to think it will.
You would rather treat the presenting symptom and not a possible root cause.
I believe addressing the root causes will not only alleviate the problem, but make your society better.

I think you could pretty much stop the crazy. You don't think it possible.

Which would you rather throw resources at?
I know which I would choose.

The problem is....your politicians etc are so captured by the pharma lobbyists and the kickbacks, it's going to be a hard row to hoe. I think it is worth trying.
You don't.

Or you disagree that uneccessary over-medication of the population with psycho-tropic drugs because it is profitable to a few is a problem at all.
I would then suggest you get comfortable with mass killings and so on...the scale will change if you disarm everyone for sure, but the phenomenon won't disappear.
And criminals will keep you locked down in your homes too afraid to go out....ah, but you probably enjoyed that experience.

We have vastly different visions of how we would like to live....

Peace to you. always.

Jiggz



Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 4:18am

 haresfur wrote:

Yes.

Other weapons

You can’t carry knives, including kitchen knives, Swiss army knives or box-cutters, batons, cattle prods or bayonets without a lawful excuse.

A 'lawful excuse' could include having the weapon for work, sport, recreation or a weapons collection, display or exhibition. Lawful excuse does not include self-defence.

You can only possess or carry some weapons if you do so safely.

You also can’t carry weapons like flick knives, daggers, butterfly knives or knuckle knives, swords, nunchakus, knuckle-dusters, shanghais, blow guns, imitation firearms, capsicum spray, slingshots, weighted or studded gloves, throwing stars or catapults without a special exemption or permission from police.









Baseball bats? Cricket bats? Chainsaws? Hammers? Hatchets? Socks stuffed with flashlight batteries? Cars? Rocks or stones? Catapults? Rat poison? Fence posts? 2by4's? Meat cleavers? Paring knives? What about empty bottles?
Fire extinguishers?
Razor blades?
Aerosol cans that can turn into mini flamethrowers?
Swimming pool acid?


OK - that's your vision of the world you want to create and live in. I think you are misguided.

"You can only possess or carry weapons if you do so safely"....sounds ok, with exceptions, much like your firearms laws as far as I understand them.

Still doesn't solve what appears to be an almost uniquely US problem of a medicated, sad, lonely crazy person wanting to do harm to a bunch of other innocents.
I guess in your world that couldn't possibly be worth examining as a problem. 
Keep on pissing into the gale....keep infringing on the personal liberties of everyone because of the actions of very few....and enjoy what comes to you.
As I said - I think you are misguided, but I suppose the Kool-Aid was tasty.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 1, 2022 - 1:15am

 haresfur wrote:

Yes.

Other weapons

You can’t carry knives, including kitchen knives, Swiss army knives or box-cutters, batons, cattle prods or bayonets without a lawful excuse.

A 'lawful excuse' could include having the weapon for work, sport, recreation or a weapons collection, display or exhibition. Lawful excuse does not include self-defence.

You can only possess or carry some weapons if you do so safely.

You also can’t carry weapons like flick knives, daggers, butterfly knives or knuckle knives, swords, nunchakus, knuckle-dusters, shanghais, blow guns, imitation firearms, capsicum spray, slingshots, weighted or studded gloves, throwing stars or catapults without a special exemption or permission from police.









Red_Dragon

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Posted: May 31, 2022 - 8:03pm

 R_P wrote:
Instead, while experts say some aspects of mental illness are associated with mass violence, they insist that it is truly a multi-layer and complex crisis, driven by a confluence of other factors as well, such as widespread access to firearms, stalled gun reform and exposure to increased stressors and crises. (...)

In fact, a 2018 report of the FBI on the characteristics of active shooters found that only 25% of shooters from 2000-2013 had confirmed mental illness.



Mental illness is not to blame in most cases; hate is a choice..
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