[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Regarding Birds - Jiggz - Jul 12, 2024 - 1:41am
 
Joe Biden - Jiggz - Jul 12, 2024 - 1:39am
 
Europe - thisbody - Jul 11, 2024 - 10:38pm
 
Strange signs, marquees, billboards, etc. - thisbody - Jul 11, 2024 - 10:36pm
 
2024 Elections! - R_P - Jul 11, 2024 - 9:46pm
 
Wordle - daily game - geoff_morphini - Jul 11, 2024 - 9:46pm
 
Things You Thought Today - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jul 11, 2024 - 9:13pm
 
NYTimes Connections - Steely_D - Jul 11, 2024 - 8:57pm
 
The Obituary Page - ScottFromWyoming - Jul 11, 2024 - 6:38pm
 
Climate Change - R_P - Jul 11, 2024 - 3:48pm
 
Guns - Red_Dragon - Jul 11, 2024 - 3:44pm
 
Florida - Red_Dragon - Jul 11, 2024 - 3:15pm
 
Radio Paradise Comments - GeneP59 - Jul 11, 2024 - 2:58pm
 
NY Times Strands - ptooey - Jul 11, 2024 - 2:39pm
 
Gotta Get Your Drink On - Antigone - Jul 11, 2024 - 2:36pm
 
Project 2025 - Red_Dragon - Jul 11, 2024 - 2:12pm
 
Trump - dischuckin - Jul 11, 2024 - 2:10pm
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jul 11, 2024 - 2:05pm
 
Outstanding Covers - Proclivities - Jul 11, 2024 - 1:34pm
 
New Music - R_P - Jul 11, 2024 - 1:31pm
 
Israel - R_P - Jul 11, 2024 - 1:10pm
 
USA! USA! USA! - R_P - Jul 11, 2024 - 8:45am
 
Record Store Day - Proclivities - Jul 11, 2024 - 8:18am
 
Rhetorical questions - Coaxial - Jul 11, 2024 - 7:03am
 
Name My Band - oldviolin - Jul 11, 2024 - 5:52am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Jul 11, 2024 - 5:40am
 
What makes you smile? - Steely_D - Jul 11, 2024 - 5:12am
 
Song of the Day - oldviolin - Jul 11, 2024 - 5:05am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - oldviolin - Jul 11, 2024 - 5:04am
 
Derplahoma! - sunybuny - Jul 11, 2024 - 4:39am
 
Russia - thisbody - Jul 11, 2024 - 3:11am
 
France - thisbody - Jul 11, 2024 - 3:04am
 
Britain - thisbody - Jul 10, 2024 - 11:36pm
 
AH! There's an elephant in the room! - Red_Dragon - Jul 10, 2024 - 6:22pm
 
Mixtape Culture Club - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jul 10, 2024 - 4:43pm
 
Good Idea / Bad Idea - ScottFromWyoming - Jul 10, 2024 - 4:39pm
 
How's the weather? - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jul 10, 2024 - 4:35pm
 
What the hell OV? - oldviolin - Jul 10, 2024 - 4:32pm
 
China - Red_Dragon - Jul 10, 2024 - 4:28pm
 
RP Daily Trivia Challenge - ScottFromWyoming - Jul 10, 2024 - 2:56pm
 
SCOTUS - Red_Dragon - Jul 10, 2024 - 2:20pm
 
Musky Mythology - miamizsun - Jul 10, 2024 - 9:25am
 
Twitter and democracy - R_P - Jul 10, 2024 - 8:40am
 
July 2024 Photo Theme - Summer - Antigone - Jul 10, 2024 - 4:08am
 
Vinyl Only Spin List - kurtster - Jul 10, 2024 - 12:10am
 
Baseball, anyone? - Bill_J - Jul 9, 2024 - 8:58pm
 
The Truth About (Modern) Popular Music - ScottFromWyoming - Jul 9, 2024 - 8:51pm
 
Is RP stuck in a loop? - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 3:51pm
 
COVID-19 - oldviolin - Jul 9, 2024 - 2:18pm
 
Favorite Quotes - oldviolin - Jul 9, 2024 - 2:11pm
 
The Sound of Falling Water - KurtfromLaQuinta - Jul 9, 2024 - 2:04pm
 
Spambags on RP - GeneP59 - Jul 9, 2024 - 1:37pm
 
RP is stuck in repetitive loop of songs! WTH? - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 1:29pm
 
Make Scott laugh - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 11:33am
 
Eclectic Sound-Drops - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 11:23am
 
RightWingNutZ - R_P - Jul 9, 2024 - 11:09am
 
The Day the Sausage Died - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 10:43am
 
Philosophy (Meaty Metaphysical Munchables!) - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 10:41am
 
Best Funk ? - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 10:22am
 
Get the Quote - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 10:19am
 
Internet connection - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 9:59am
 
Ukraine - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 9:53am
 
Nature's Creatures - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 9:13am
 
If not RP, what are you listening to right now? - david8 - Jul 9, 2024 - 7:30am
 
Breaking News - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 5:21am
 
Is there any DOG news out there? - thisbody - Jul 9, 2024 - 4:48am
 
Anti-War - R_P - Jul 8, 2024 - 8:33pm
 
Media Bias - Beaker - Jul 8, 2024 - 8:07pm
 
Those Lovable Policemen - Red_Dragon - Jul 8, 2024 - 7:28pm
 
Other Medical Stuff - rgio - Jul 8, 2024 - 4:00pm
 
American Justice - rgio - Jul 8, 2024 - 1:47pm
 
Artificial Intelligence - ScottFromWyoming - Jul 8, 2024 - 9:51am
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - ColdMiser - Jul 8, 2024 - 7:33am
 
favorite love songs - Steely_D - Jul 8, 2024 - 5:00am
 
Music Requests - Beaker - Jul 7, 2024 - 12:10pm
 
Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Health Care Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 263, 264, 265, 266, 267  Next
Post to this Topic
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 7:54pm

 dmax wrote:

Health Care isn't a right, I agree. When I talk with my boys about where our donations go, I tend to say stupid stuff like "people need food. they don't HAVE to have even shelter, but they have to have food. that's where everything starts, and that's why we support he food bank."

Shelter, health care, nice clothes, education, good job - these are all wonderful things, provided in the best way that we can if we're a benevolent society. But they aren't rights.

and, BTW, why have employers pay health care? Seems like it's adding a weird criterion for getting coverage. Shouldn't employers pay a decent wage, and health care is provided at a decent cost? But don't tie them together. That's somewhat arbitrary and is also a ballast on the financial freedom of the company. I bet it kills many upstart ideas.

 
I agree.  Perhaps employers providing it is part of the problem.  The system is definitely broken, but I really don't think more government involvement is the solution, but that seems to be the drum they're beating these days and people are starting to buy into it.

arighter2

arighter2 Avatar

Location: dubuque
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 7:52pm

 oldslabsides wrote:

Um no - I don't think it's a right.

I'm grateful I work for a company that provides it.
  Not saying you shouldn't get your bennies for selling out to the man, but if you think those deserving are simply those that can afford, you're supporting a system in which the Bernard Madoff's of the world are entitled to the best health care, and millions of honest working folk can go without. Do you honestly think  there is justice in that?

(former member)

(former member) Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 7:48pm

 oldslabsides wrote:

Um no - I don't think it's a right.

I'm grateful I work for a company that provides it.
 
Health Care isn't a right, I agree. When I talk with my boys about where our donations go, I tend to say stupid stuff like "people need food. they don't HAVE to have even shelter, but they have to have food. that's where everything starts, and that's why we support he food bank."

Shelter, health care, nice clothes, education, good job - these are all wonderful things, provided in the best way that we can if we're a benevolent society. But they aren't rights.

and, BTW, why have employers pay health care? Seems like it's adding a weird criterion for getting coverage. Shouldn't employers pay a decent wage, and health care is provided at a decent cost? But don't tie them together. That's somewhat arbitrary and is also a ballast on the financial freedom of the company. I bet it kills many upstart ideas.


arighter2

arighter2 Avatar

Location: dubuque
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 7:37pm

 hippiechick wrote:

The whole country benefits from having a healthy population. People who don't have health insurance do not have preventative healthcare, and end up in the emergency room anyway, where the costs are much higher.

People who are physically ill, and mentally ill, are a burden on society.

I'll betcha that you would squawk long and loud if the gas company took away your health bennies. Does that mean you think it's a right? Why do you think you are entitled to medical care when other people are not?
  Thanks. I feel so much better about myself now. When I'm working tomorrow in an old rock quarry under the hot sun seperating wood to be used on the  pallets that bring goods to folk like you and Slabby, l'll think of y'all.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 7:21pm

 hippiechick wrote:

The whole country benefits from having a healthy population. People who don't have health insurance do not have preventative healthcare, and end up in the emergency room anyway, where the costs are much higher.

People who are physically ill, and mentally ill, are a burden on society.

I'll betcha that you would squawk long and loud if the gas company took away your health bennies. Does that mean you think it's a right? Why do you think you are entitled to medical care when other people are not?
 
Um no - I don't think it's a right.

I'm grateful I work for a company that provides it.

hippiechick

hippiechick Avatar

Location: topsy turvy land
Gender: Female


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 7:14pm

 oldslabsides wrote:
Perhaps I'm wrong on this, but I have the impression that a large percentage of folks seem to think that health care is a right.  If so, when exactly did it become one?

 
The whole country benefits from having a healthy population. People who don't have health insurance do not have preventative healthcare, and end up in the emergency room anyway, where the costs are much higher.

People who are physically ill, and mentally ill, are a burden on society.

I'll betcha that you would squawk long and loud if the gas company took away your health bennies. Does that mean you think it's a right? Why do you think you are entitled to medical care when other people are not?

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 6:43pm

Perhaps I'm wrong on this, but I have the impression that a large percentage of folks seem to think that health care is a right.  If so, when exactly did it become one?
(former member)

(former member) Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 5:14pm

 samiyam wrote:

My local health care clinic set up and supports a weekly farmer's market for access to affordable fresh and organic vegetables. 
 
Plate o shrimp! Mine too. Series of farmers' markets throughout the area. Love em.
jadewahoo

jadewahoo Avatar

Location: Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 4:51pm

 katzendogs wrote:
I see nothing addressing illegal immigrant health care in here.

 
Oh, the USA will provide expensive, useless drugs (with side effects 10 x worse than the condition they are designed to treat) and needless surgeries to Canucks who are wintering in Scottsdale and Sedona just as readily as they do to their own populace. As long as they can pay...

bokey

bokey Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 4:37pm

 katzendogs wrote:
I see nothing addressing illegal immigrant health care in here.

 
That's what we have taxes for. It's already been addressed.


katzendogs

katzendogs Avatar

Location: Pasadena ,Texas
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 4:26pm

I see nothing addressing illegal immigrant health care in here.
samiyam

samiyam Avatar

Location: Moving North


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 4:18pm

 dmax wrote:
Went to a lecture last night by a guy named Christensen, who's supposedly the national expert on health care economics and stuff. Here's something by him.

Fascinating discussion of this topic. Began by talking about steel and rebar and how the market shifted drastically when larger mills got too set in their path and then were swallowed by mini-mills. Not bad management, just an inexorable trek to obsolescence.

Then, a discussion of health care premiums as a percent of the family income. was 7 percent, then 14, and in about 6 yrs will likely be about 30+%. This is, like the large steel companies, a predictable march towards unsustainability.

In fact, the only way to keep costs down is to develop cost-effective and routinely efficient strategies for health-care delivery. Any discovery process has three stages: intuitive discovery -> generalities that allow for comprehensive discussion of the problem -> specific rules for addressing the issue. There are medical problems that fall into those categories: Type 1 diabetes requires intuitive care, not strict rules. But, treatment of a sore throat has been honed to a set of specific rules that are patient-friendly and cost-effective. Those rules must be implemented to be efficient and cost-effective in situations where care is properly defined. It isn't, generally, because doing more results in more billing, doesn't it?

And, hospitals have positioned themselves as extremely expensive situations. Rather than a streamlined, efficient, cost-effective method of delivering a small cluster of products, they insist on a setup that is inherently hyper-expensive so that it can provide "anything." Small clinics geared towards, e.g., hernia repair, are about 1/3 the cost - for the same product. They are the only way to keep health care costs from skyrocketing.

Unsustainable skyrocketing care costs are also the result of inefficiencies in variations in ordering lab, prescribing medicine, and the general multi-site runaround that seems to be common. 

However, the way to keep costs under control and avoid the unsustainable price rise is anathema to fee-for-service medicine. If the provider makes money by ordering or providing a service, then preventative care is against their financial interests, no? They make less money if they recommend fruits and vegetables and more if they do an angioplasty. It's just how the FFS world is.

So, this gentleman predicted that fixed-pre-payment is the only reasonable method of keeping our culture healthy and preventing the current rise in health care costs. This is different from HMOs. It's a system wherein patients pay a fixed amount per month, and the health care system receiving those premiums knows that it is in their best financial interest to keep the patient from unnecessarily utilizing services, so as to be good stewards of the premiums paid (and that includes giving high-quality care so as to not lose premium dollars to lawsuits, right?).

And therefore he predicts that in the next 6 years, we will see the collapse of the FFS (fee-for-service, the old steel mill model) medical system as we see it today, and a move towards fixed-pre-payment services (the more efficient mini-mills for steel) across the country, competing to keep patients healthy (quality data are readily available as advertising attractants to subscribers) while providing a personable experience and integrating their providers, lab, imaging, etc. (Services in separate locations increase inefficiency/waste and drive up costs, and so are automatically less favorable.) He names a few medical care systems across the country that are already doing this. Those that aren't (the fee-for-service world) are about to have the rug yanked out from under them as they figure out integration, cost-effectiveness, integrated services, and the electronic medical record.

May we live in interesting times... 



 
My local health care clinic set up and supports a weekly farmer's market for access to affordable fresh and organic vegetables. 

(former member)

(former member) Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 4:07pm

Went to a lecture last night by a guy named Christensen, who's supposedly the national expert on health care economics and stuff. Here's something by him.

Fascinating discussion of this topic. Began by talking about steel and rebar and how the market shifted drastically when larger mills got too set in their path and then were swallowed by mini-mills. Not bad management, just an inexorable trek to obsolescence.

Then, a discussion of health care premiums as a percent of the family income. was 7 percent, then 14, and in about 6 yrs will likely be about 30+%. This is, like the large steel companies, a predictable march towards unsustainability.

In fact, the only way to keep costs down is to develop cost-effective and routinely efficient strategies for health-care delivery. Any discovery process has three stages: intuitive discovery -> generalities that allow for comprehensive discussion of the problem -> specific rules for addressing the issue. There are medical problems that fall into those categories: Type 1 diabetes requires intuitive care, not strict rules. But, treatment of a sore throat has been honed to a set of specific rules that are patient-friendly and cost-effective. Those rules must be implemented to be efficient and cost-effective in situations where care is properly defined. It isn't, generally, because doing more results in more billing, doesn't it?

And, hospitals have positioned themselves as extremely expensive situations. Rather than a streamlined, efficient, cost-effective method of delivering a small cluster of products, they insist on a setup that is inherently hyper-expensive so that it can provide "anything." Small clinics geared towards, e.g., hernia repair, are about 1/3 the cost - for the same product. They are the only way to keep health care costs from skyrocketing.

Unsustainable skyrocketing care costs are also the result of inefficiencies in variations in ordering lab, prescribing medicine, and the general multi-site runaround that seems to be common. 

However, the way to keep costs under control and avoid the unsustainable price rise is anathema to fee-for-service medicine. If the provider makes money by ordering or providing a service, then preventative care is against their financial interests, no? They make less money if they recommend fruits and vegetables and more if they do an angioplasty. It's just how the FFS world is.

So, this gentleman predicted that fixed-pre-payment is the only reasonable method of keeping our culture healthy and preventing the current rise in health care costs. This is different from HMOs. It's a system wherein patients pay a fixed amount per month, and the health care system receiving those premiums knows that it is in their best financial interest to keep the patient from unnecessarily utilizing services, so as to be good stewards of the premiums paid (and that includes giving high-quality care so as to not lose premium dollars to lawsuits, right?).

And therefore he predicts that in the next 6 years, we will see the collapse of the FFS (fee-for-service, the old steel mill model) medical system as we see it today, and a move towards fixed-pre-payment services (the more efficient mini-mills for steel) across the country, competing to keep patients healthy (quality data are readily available as advertising attractants to subscribers) while providing a personable experience and integrating their providers, lab, imaging, etc. (Services in separate locations increase inefficiency/waste and drive up costs, and so are automatically less favorable.) He names a few medical care systems across the country that are already doing this. Those that aren't (the fee-for-service world) are about to have the rug yanked out from under them as they figure out integration, cost-effectiveness, integrated services, and the electronic medical record.

May we live in interesting times... 


starcloud

starcloud Avatar

Location: Geo Update: 35.568622, -121.10409 you're close enough
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 19, 2009 - 7:39pm

 manbirdexperiment wrote:

what a bunch of oxymorons 
 
not intended, but thank you anyway
Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: La Villa Toscana
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 19, 2009 - 7:30pm

 starcloud wrote:
haven't had health insurance for uh . . . 10 years, and my latest client is health care for all (imagine that) how ironic!

 
what a bunch of oxymorons 
starcloud

starcloud Avatar

Location: Geo Update: 35.568622, -121.10409 you're close enough
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 19, 2009 - 7:27pm

haven't had health insurance for uh . . . 10 years, and my latest client is health care for all (imagine that) how ironic!


n4ku

n4ku Avatar

Location: --... ...--


Posted: Jun 18, 2009 - 9:37pm

The Daily Show With Jon StewartMon - Thurs 11p / 10c
Heal or No Heal
thedailyshow.com
Daily Show
Full Episodes
Political HumorJason Jones in Iran


Inamorato

Inamorato Avatar

Location: Twin Cities
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 14, 2009 - 8:04am

In case there is any question about the priorities of the American health care system...

 

Nurse called out of surgery and laid off


Associated Press 
Updated: 04/14/2009 09:44:08 AM CDT
MADISON, Wis. — A Dean Health System nurse was called out of surgery so a manager could tell her she was being laid off. 

Dean Health said the surgery was minor and the patient wasn't affected, but the manager who summoned the nurse from surgery violated medical protocol. 

Dean Health spokesman Paul Pitas said the incident happened at Dean's West Clinic in Madison on Wednesday or Thursday. 

Pitas said there was a period of time in which a nurse wasn't present during the procedure. He said while there were other clinical staff present, the absence of a nurse is a violation of patient care procedures. 

The Madison-based health care provider announced Wednesday that it planned to "immediately" lay off 90 employees. 

Pitas declined to name the employees involved or what type of surgery the nurse was attending when she was called away.


AliGator

AliGator Avatar



Posted: Nov 21, 2008 - 10:59pm

I've referred to health care in France on several occasions here at RP. I lived there for 13 years (read: one-third of my life and most of my adult life) and had my babies there. I cannot say enough good things about health care in France, but the most important thing I can say is that I never worried about it.

NPR has done a series about health care in Europe; here's a link to the bit about France. I realize that this is a few months old, but it just came across my radar.

The US could do worse than to imitate the French model. And yes, I knew the system over there was running a deficit before I read this article, but still, it works. If the price of a GP visit rises from 20 euros to 25 or even 30, it's still affordable.

It's not a perfect system, but it sure beats what we currently have here.
Servo

Servo Avatar

Location: Down on the Farm
Gender: Male


Posted: Oct 31, 2008 - 10:09am

 OlderThanDirt wrote:
Just curious.  Those started around here about 5 years or so ago, and a lot of people we know had to find new doctors.  I've wondered how it is working out for the doctors that went that route.  My guess is probably pretty well.
 
FYI it hasn't gone very well at all for several specialties.  I've heard way too many (true) stories about OB/GYNs who have had to stop practicing medicine because the malpractice insurance was bankrupting them, quite literally.  More than a few were left so in debt that they couldn't even afford to retrain for another specialty.  Their decades of medical training and practice went to seed, possibly permanently. {#Sad}


Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 263, 264, 265, 266, 267  Next