[ ]   [ ]   [ ]                        [ ]      [ ]   [ ]

Mixtape Culture Club - sirdroseph - Jun 26, 2019 - 4:11am
 
Android App DLNA - - Jun 26, 2019 - 1:47am
 
Trump Lies - R_P - Jun 25, 2019 - 4:43pm
 
Back to the 70's - JrzyTmata - Jun 25, 2019 - 4:30pm
 
The Groovy Mix - bugslovertoo466 - Jun 25, 2019 - 4:05pm
 
Poetry Forum - Antigone - Jun 25, 2019 - 3:25pm
 
Democratic Party - islander - Jun 25, 2019 - 2:36pm
 
Recipes Shared at Radio Paradise - Proclivities - Jun 25, 2019 - 1:45pm
 
Stupid Questions (and Answers) - Proclivities - Jun 25, 2019 - 1:35pm
 
World Music - R_P - Jun 25, 2019 - 1:26pm
 
Climate Change - R_P - Jun 25, 2019 - 12:30pm
 
Photography Forum - Your Own Photos - oldviolin - Jun 25, 2019 - 11:00am
 
260,000 Posts in one thread? - oldviolin - Jun 25, 2019 - 10:56am
 
Trump - Red_Dragon - Jun 25, 2019 - 9:53am
 
Baseball, anyone? - ScottFromWyoming - Jun 25, 2019 - 9:51am
 
Strips, cartoons, illustrations - dischuckin - Jun 25, 2019 - 9:32am
 
President Elizabeth Warren - sirdroseph - Jun 25, 2019 - 7:32am
 
Republican Party - Red_Dragon - Jun 25, 2019 - 7:29am
 
• • • The Once-a-Day • • •  - Red_Dragon - Jun 25, 2019 - 6:20am
 
Today in History - Red_Dragon - Jun 25, 2019 - 6:10am
 
Radio Paradise Comments - Coaxial - Jun 25, 2019 - 5:36am
 
Counting with Pictures - Proclivities - Jun 24, 2019 - 10:41am
 
Flat Earth News - Red_Dragon - Jun 24, 2019 - 10:16am
 
Mellow stream - BillG - Jun 24, 2019 - 9:46am
 
Anti-War - black321 - Jun 24, 2019 - 8:33am
 
Anyone have Popcorn Hour? - Proclivities - Jun 24, 2019 - 7:44am
 
ear worm - need help lol - Proclivities - Jun 24, 2019 - 6:53am
 
Tech & Science - black321 - Jun 24, 2019 - 6:32am
 
Beer - sirdroseph - Jun 24, 2019 - 4:55am
 
What happened to the Rockin' & Groovy mixes??? - Roguewarer - Jun 23, 2019 - 3:32pm
 
Iran - R_P - Jun 23, 2019 - 10:58am
 
What Are You Going To Do Today? - Steely_D - Jun 23, 2019 - 10:23am
 
Cool & Interesting Signs, Billboards, etc. as Opposed to ... - SeriousLee - Jun 23, 2019 - 9:57am
 
Immigration - oldviolin - Jun 23, 2019 - 9:53am
 
What are you listening to now? - SeriousLee - Jun 23, 2019 - 9:00am
 
Bug Reports & Feature Requests - gfischer99 - Jun 23, 2019 - 8:16am
 
Things You Thought Today - Antigone - Jun 23, 2019 - 5:49am
 
Track Transition cutting Out - siskinbob - Jun 23, 2019 - 2:11am
 
What are you doing RIGHT NOW? - oldviolin - Jun 22, 2019 - 10:10pm
 
Favorite wine? - SeriousLee - Jun 22, 2019 - 1:18pm
 
Country Up The Bumpkin - sirdroseph - Jun 22, 2019 - 12:15pm
 
Loudness Wars - islander - Jun 22, 2019 - 9:09am
 
Bob Dylan - sirdroseph - Jun 22, 2019 - 5:02am
 
Gotta Get Your Drink On - SeriousLee - Jun 21, 2019 - 1:51pm
 
New Music - R_P - Jun 21, 2019 - 12:06pm
 
Congress - R_P - Jun 21, 2019 - 11:53am
 
How's the weather? - SeriousLee - Jun 21, 2019 - 9:56am
 
Graphs, Charts & Maps - Proclivities - Jun 21, 2019 - 9:04am
 
Sunrise, Sunset - islander - Jun 21, 2019 - 8:14am
 
Lyrics that strike a chord today... - oldviolin - Jun 21, 2019 - 7:19am
 
What Makes You Laugh? - sirdroseph - Jun 21, 2019 - 5:38am
 
Nuclear power - saviour or scourge? - miamizsun - Jun 21, 2019 - 3:52am
 
New song submissions - Krane - Jun 20, 2019 - 4:37pm
 
Latin Music - rhahl - Jun 20, 2019 - 1:16pm
 
Mellow Mix Fan Club - - Jun 20, 2019 - 10:47am
 
Pernicious Pious Proclivities Particularized Prodigiously - R_P - Jun 20, 2019 - 10:39am
 
You're doing it wrong! - miamizsun - Jun 20, 2019 - 9:26am
 
volcano! - miamizsun - Jun 20, 2019 - 9:11am
 
Mystery Topic #10590 - Proclivities - Jun 20, 2019 - 6:45am
 
Name My Band - Red_Dragon - Jun 19, 2019 - 6:56pm
 
Export rated songs playlist - ruby2zday - Jun 19, 2019 - 6:43pm
 
Redundancy - oldviolin - Jun 19, 2019 - 3:15pm
 
Installing Dishwashers is NOT Easy - Or in Our Case, Even... - oldviolin - Jun 19, 2019 - 1:03pm
 
OUR CATS!! - Proclivities - Jun 19, 2019 - 10:40am
 
Thorium Power - miamizsun - Jun 19, 2019 - 7:44am
 
Derplahoma Questions and Points of Interest - Red_Dragon - Jun 19, 2019 - 6:39am
 
Things I Saw Today... - - Jun 19, 2019 - 4:26am
 
Song Lyrics - sirdroseph - Jun 19, 2019 - 3:07am
 
Flower Pictures - yuel - Jun 19, 2019 - 12:29am
 
Way Cool Video - miamizsun - Jun 18, 2019 - 2:54pm
 
Banksy! - - Jun 18, 2019 - 2:37pm
 
Dangerous Bus Stop - - Jun 18, 2019 - 2:10pm
 
Why Everything You Believe Is Immoral, Irresponsible, Irr... - Proclivities - Jun 18, 2019 - 6:41am
 
American Oil Strikes Again - westslope - Jun 18, 2019 - 2:20am
 
HomeKit HomePod AppleTV - gtufano - Jun 18, 2019 - 12:57am
 
Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Health Care Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 263, 264, 265  Next
Post to this Topic
(former member)

(former member) Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 2, 2006 - 8:28am

huebdoo wrote:
Emergency rooms are full of people who abuse the system and dont need to be in an Emergency room at all

Introduce a $5, $10, $20 fee when you come into emergency and the Triage nurse / resident doctor will then decide if you fit the criteria for being in need of "emergency care"

This is a much more complicated issue that it appears. The emergency room should, I agree, have some disincentive for its use as an all-night clinic. The health-care group that I've worked for for the last 20 years has a co-pay of $150 for an ER visit.

Nonetheless, it's overwhlemed with unnecessary visits. People still come to it for clearly non-emergent problems, which amazes me. Some of that speaks to the affluence of the city, and the selfishness of the populace.

However, every single time that you have a co-pay, you raise the bar higher to prevent the poor from getting help when they really need it. Even a $5 co-pay is an impediment to some - although it's a cup of coffee to others.

The upshot is, there has to be an inexpensive way for folks to get care that's not the ED - built into the health care system from the ground up. It's better for everyone in the long run.
Zukiwi

Zukiwi Avatar

Location: Montreal's suburb
Gender: Female


Posted: Apr 2, 2006 - 8:11am

Public health system, however, from a personal experience is QUICK EFFICIENT AND FAST in both the US and CA.

My son when he was 12 years old, was in the US visiting his father in a famous circus. One of the artist was found to be having a serious highly transmittable disease.

My son had been back home for 3 days when we received a call - from Health Canada, saying Public Health in the US had informed them of blabla and result my son needed a preventive injection. Within 1 hour, there was a taxi at the door, the injection had been shipped to the nearest CLSC almost intantly, when he got there no waiting, 2 nurses and 1 doctor ready to do the check ups and the injection.

Was quite impressive on both side of the border ...
Zukiwi

Zukiwi Avatar

Location: Montreal's suburb
Gender: Female


Posted: Apr 2, 2006 - 7:45am

Student wrote:
Another suggested approach has been establishing more community health centers, which would be run relatively inexpensively by staffing them with public health nurses. These would be available for people with problems of the "elbow itches, tummy aches, my baby has a fever" variety. Some already exist, and they do quite well.

This option saves money by reducing ER usage, and also by introducing an opportunity for preventative health care. It is also a more attractive option for consumers, who would not be shuffled to the back of the line as more urgent cases are dealt with, and can develop a relationship with their health care providers.



We have that in Quebec, the CLSC have been implemented for more then 20 years now and they have not helped in reducing emergencies attendance in hospital.

I suspect the reason they did not fulfill what they were destined to do, is that they did the same things standard clinics did: they are opened within business hours only, neither on week-ends nor at night. So the parents that come back from work, have their dinner, give the bath and than notice the kid is sick only have the hospital emergency as an option. The worker that goes to work will also wait after his shift to go to a clinic. You can always call the CLSC hotline, but most often than not, they will direct you to the Hospital emergencies.

If you ask me, a CHILDREN only emergency clinic opened 24 hours a day, in different region depending on no of inhabitants, would help reduce DRASTICALLY the ER attendance. More than half of the people waiting in ER are worried parents with children.

As for appointements with doctor, I do not know the situation in ON, but in QC or the South Shore of Montreal is a no go, unless you are NOT sick or you can plan you will be sick in 3 months from now . Average wait time to see a doctor is about 2 to 3 months as the Monteregie region has a shortage of doctors. Completely useless except for your annual visit !

Student wrote:


User fees are also an option. However, aside from people who can't be bothered to wait for an appointment (and some are like this), people more likely to consume ER services also include the following; single mothers with young children, people with no family doctor, due to being transient, newly immigrated, etc. For these people, user fees are not a disinsentive for ER use, but an unavoidable barrier to access for medical care. Although $5 seems like a nominal fee, it is significant for people in these situations.


I agree. However there are far too many "booboo centric" people in the ER, but how the system is made DOES NOT help.

For instance, here in QC, if you break your arm, you go to a regular clinic and a regular Xray, the only place that can put a cast is the hospital. So yes the Doc confirms, the Xray confirms, than you drive to the hospital, and guess what, you need to get inline AGAIN - after waiting in the clinic for hours, drives the waiting time to double, and triples the costs of HCS. Result: Most people think they may as well go directly to the ER !

So how bout a casting clinic now, that only specialises in CASTS - You know it may be as well that the true winner in ER issue would be decentralisation - cause this is where the issue comes from, the bottle neck and the system aberrancies.

And get the nurses to do nursing ! In QC hospital, our nurses are now administrative clerks entering data while the secretaries turn their fingers. Might be wise to reconsider if the nurses are use properly or remove secretaries all together.
Student

Student Avatar

Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 2, 2006 - 7:11am

Another suggested approach has been establishing more community health centers, which would be run relatively inexpensively by staffing them with public health nurses. These would be available for people with problems of the "elbow itches, tummy aches, my baby has a fever" variety. Some already exist, and they do quite well.

This option saves money by reducing ER usage, and also by introducing an opportunity for preventative health care. It is also a more attractive option for consumers, who would not be shuffled to the back of the line as more urgent cases are dealt with, and can develop a relationship with their health care providers.

User fees are also an option. However, aside from people who can't be bothered to wait for an appointment (and some are like this), people more likely to consume ER services also include the following; single mothers with young children, people with no family doctor, due to being transient, newly immigrated, etc. For these people, user fees are not a disinsentive for ER use, but an unavoidable barrier to access for medical care. Although $5 seems like a nominal fee, it is significant for people in these situations.

huebdoo wrote:
One simple way Canadians could easily help their system out is by user fees.

Emergency rooms are full of people who abuse the system and dont need to be in an Emergency room at all

My elbow itches
I have had a tummy ache for two weeks now
I have a bad cough for weeks now
What is this bump on my knee?

These are the kind of people that could easily make appointments to see their doctor but dont want to because they (to put it bluntly) are lazy. What they dont understand is that this is a huge resource pig that takes nurses and staff away from the really sick.

Introduce a $5, $10, $20 fee when you come into emergency and the Triage nurse / resident doctor will then decide if you fit the criteria for being in need of "emergency care"

Combine this with percentage based Two-Tiered system (where nurses / doctors can work a percentage of time in both the public and private sectors - based on seniority and specialty)

These two additions to the Canadian healthcare system would significantly change the way our money is spent in the Healthcare system and how the people need to take more responsibility for it.

coding_to_music

coding_to_music Avatar

Location: Beantown
Gender: Male


Posted: Apr 1, 2006 - 8:20pm

huebdoo wrote:
One simple way Canadians could easily help their system out is by user fees.

Emergency rooms are full of people who abuse the system and dont need to be in an Emergency room at all

My elbow itches
I have had a tummy ache for two weeks now
I have a bad cough for weeks now
What is this bump on my knee?

These are the kind of people that could easily make appointments to see their doctor but dont want to because they (to put it bluntly) are lazy. What they dont understand is that this is a huge resource pig that takes nurses and staff away from the really sick.

Introduce a $5, $10, $20 fee when you come into emergency and the Triage nurse / resident doctor will then decide if you fit the criteria for being in need of "emergency care"

Combine this with percentage based Two-Tiered system (where nurses / doctors can work a percentage of time in both the public and private sectors - based on seniority and specialty)

These two additions to the Canadian healthcare system would significantly change the way our money is spent in the Healthcare system and how the people need to take more responsibility for it.


co-pays are common in the USA

seems like you need drop-in-clinics in the ER's

staffing the ER's so they can handle routine stuff like you described...
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Mar 31, 2006 - 7:39pm

President Bush, Meet Lorraine
by Barbara Ehrenreich

Here’s the news that rocked my little world this month: We got a message that a family friend, let’s call her Lorraine, who was in an ICU, barely able to breathe on her own. In the last few weeks, there’d been some mumblings about “not feeling a hundred percent,” but no hint of anything seriously wrong. The diagnosis came back in a couple of days: fourth-stage breast cancer, which has spread to a number of other organs, including her lungs. If you know anything at all about breast cancer “staging,” you know there is no fifth stage.

Lorraine has no health insurance. We didn’t know that. In fact, we’d been content to believe that her consulting business was going as well as she said it was. In her late forties now, she’s a former accountant who never could find another decent job—also a news junkie, an avid reader, and an energetic volunteer in a number of worthy causes. But it turns out she’s been struggling with the cell phone bill and the rent. A few weeks ago, unbeknownst to us, she’d moved out of her apartment and into a free room offered by one of the nonprofits she volunteers for. The cost of a mammogram—well over $100—must have been out of reach.

President Bush, in his State of the Union address, said we should each have a “catastrophic” health insurance policy for the big ticket items like breast cancer, plus a tax-deductible savings account for the little things, like mammograms. If we have to take “personal responsibility” for our doctor visits and routine care we’ll be thrifty about it—or so the thinking goes—and the nation’s medical expenditures will stop spiking like an Ebola fever.

It’s an old idea, going back at least to the Clintons, that the problem with the American health system is that we, the consumers, just consume too much. Make us mindful of the costs by raising co-payments and other out-of-pocket costs, and we’ll stop indulging in blood workups, MRIs, prostate exams, and all those other fun things.
...


and old but good...
The Truth About Drug Companies
huebdoo

huebdoo Avatar

Location: San Fran
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 29, 2006 - 7:54am

One simple way Canadians could easily help their system out is by user fees.

Emergency rooms are full of people who abuse the system and dont need to be in an Emergency room at all

My elbow itches
I have had a tummy ache for two weeks now
I have a bad cough for weeks now
What is this bump on my knee?

These are the kind of people that could easily make appointments to see their doctor but dont want to because they (to put it bluntly) are lazy. What they dont understand is that this is a huge resource pig that takes nurses and staff away from the really sick.

Introduce a $5, $10, $20 fee when you come into emergency and the Triage nurse / resident doctor will then decide if you fit the criteria for being in need of "emergency care"

Combine this with percentage based Two-Tiered system (where nurses / doctors can work a percentage of time in both the public and private sectors - based on seniority and specialty)

These two additions to the Canadian healthcare system would significantly change the way our money is spent in the Healthcare system and how the people need to take more responsibility for it.

Alt-Ctrl-Tom

Alt-Ctrl-Tom Avatar

Location: Seattle
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2006 - 8:47pm

Mugro wrote:




I spend almost $2500 per month on health insurance for my family and my employees. Health insurance cost for my business went up 30% from last year to this year. Outrageous!!!

When I ran for State Representative, one of my campaign themes was that instead of merely trying to figure out how to insure everyone, we should be looking at reducing the cost of health care. It is simple to realize that if you attack the causes of these terrible increases and make health care more affordable, more people could afford to be insured, whether the government or the individual or the employer pays for it.

Here in Massachusetts, the Republican Governor (Mitt Romney, coming to a Presidential Primary state near you soon!)and the Democrat legislature are actually working on the same goal to bring health care coverage to everyone in the state. However, even though they are united across party lines to get this done, no one knows how to pay for it. That is why I was advocating towards addressing the costs of health insurance as a primary goal.

My voice on this issue was lost in the fray, as was my candidacy, I'm afraid. Still no deal on health care, I might add.


This is an excellent voice to continue!
for there will be more frays where it is necessary, and some, perhaps, where it will be heard.


ScottN

ScottN Avatar

Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2006 - 8:42pm

Mugro wrote:



... It is simple to realize that if you attack the causes of these terrible increases and make health care more affordable, more people could afford to be insured, whether the government or the individual or the employer pays for it.
...

United Health Care, located here in the Minneapolis/St.Paul metro. pays it CEO about $100 Million/year. Yes, I have my zeroes correctly counted. Start there. I am a capitalist; a small business owner. I believe in a free market, generally. I believe the source of the problem here lies in the inherent contradiction of having a vendor whose interest is in minimizing costs and maximizing income and profits be the source of care. No system works everywhere, and the free market has not worked here. We have public schools, libraries, roads, bridges, and on. Health care should be available to all. Gov't can legislate proscriptions and rules to avoid abuse.

The idea that a free market, and competition that comes with it, will inevitably benefit the consumer has been completely co-opted in the case of health care....and we are all paying.
Student

Student Avatar

Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 28, 2006 - 7:57pm

For anyone who's interested, there's some good research comparing private and public health care here: (click here).

I skimmed a couple of articles, which indicated that on the one hand, private health care costs more, is less efficient, and results in more fatalities.

But on the other hand... ummmm, yeah. Never mind.
Mugro

Mugro Avatar

Location: 1,000 shades of green (Ireland)


Posted: Mar 28, 2006 - 7:45am

ankhara99 wrote:


I think I'm hearing the Angelic Choir!

The first step is admitting there's a problem, Mugro.




I spend almost $2500 per month on health insurance for my family and my employees. Health insurance cost for my business went up 30% from last year to this year. Outrageous!!!

When I ran for State Representative, one of my campaign themes was that instead of merely trying to figure out how to insure everyone, we should be looking at reducing the cost of health care. It is simple to realize that if you attack the causes of these terrible increases and make health care more affordable, more people could afford to be insured, whether the government or the individual or the employer pays for it.

Here in Massachusetts, the Republican Governor (Mitt Romney, coming to a Presidential Primary state near you soon!)and the Democrat legislature are actually working on the same goal to bring health care coverage to everyone in the state. However, even though they are united across party lines to get this done, no one knows how to pay for it. That is why I was advocating towards addressing the costs of health insurance as a primary goal.

My voice on this issue was lost in the fray, as was my candidacy, I'm afraid. Still no deal on health care, I might add.
ScottN

ScottN Avatar

Location: Half inch above the K/T boundary
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 27, 2006 - 7:26pm

A generation or more ago, one might consider a legacy to a hospital in one's will. Now the legacy may well include shares of stock in a company owning/running hospitals.

I'll have to read the whole thread to become informed, I suppose. But when, and who's idea was it, that health care should become a for-profit enterprise? Isn't there an inherent contradiction in entrusting health care to an organization which has an interest in keeping costs (and care for the patient) to a minimum? It's a free market failure of monstrous proportions.

I'm 56 and in good health. My premium for good insurance is $590/month. I could lease a really nice Mercedes for that payment.
Bleh. Health care should be a right for all, not a privilege for those who (may be) able to afford it.
Later--And I don't want the Mercedes. I'll drive my 99 Neon and take health care for everyone.
ankhara99

ankhara99 Avatar

Location: Over the Rainbow
Gender: Female


Posted: Mar 27, 2006 - 6:58pm

Mugro wrote:
Finally, I am on the same side as Richard Prins and Michael Moore. Yes, I said it.

The American health care industry is a big fat pig.

Fire away Michael (and Richard)!!!!


I think I'm hearing the Angelic Choir!

The first step is admitting there's a problem, Mugro.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Mar 27, 2006 - 6:54pm

Mugro wrote:
Finally, I am on the same side as Richard Prins and Michael Moore. Yes, I said it.

I think you need to see a doctor...

Oh, and while I'm here, here's something a bit like Coke in the Po: People popping pills prodigiously...
Mugro

Mugro Avatar

Location: 1,000 shades of green (Ireland)


Posted: Mar 27, 2006 - 6:52pm

Finally, I am on the same side as Richard Prins and Michael Moore. Yes, I said it.

The American health care industry is a big fat pig.

Fire away Michael (and Richard)!!!!
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Mar 26, 2006 - 9:06pm

Here Comes Pharmaheit 9/11
Controversial film maker Michael Moore is targeting the drugs companies
by Sylvia Pfeifer

"Send me your health care horror stories…" reads the appeal. The stark request heads a letter from Michael Moore, the controversial filmmaker, published on his website last month which asks for real-life examples of people's bad experiences of hospitals, insurance companies and drug makers.

Renowned for his documentary Fahrenheit 9/11 in which he took on the Bush Administration over the war in Iraq, Moore's latest target is the health care industry.

Work on the film, Sicko, has been in progress since 2004 and it is finally expected to be premiered later this year but already speculation about its content has put the industry on the offensive.

If executives at health care companies worry they might come off badly in the film, Moore's letter leaves little doubt: "Have you ever found yourself getting ready to file for bankruptcy because you can't pay your kid's hospital bill, and then you say to yourself: 'Boy, I sure would like to be in Michael Moore's health care movie!'?"

Moore says he will read every letter: "…if you have been abused in any way by this sick, greedy, grubby system and it has caused you or your loved ones great sorrow and pain, let me know."

Executives in the US admit the forthcoming film is a cause for concern but most are resigned to the fact that Moore is unlikely to take a balanced approach.

"It is a concern… but Michael Moore has very little credibility with mainstream Americans," says Ken Johnson, the senior vice president of the trade group Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America. "For every horror story Michael Moore produces, we can produce 1,000 success stories, but he's not interested in them."

Nevertheless, it is not just Moore who is on the attack. Other films such as The Constant Gardener, based on the novel by John Le Carré about corruption in the industry in Africa and which won Britain's Rachel Weisz an Oscar as Best Supporting Actress last month, and the book Hard Sell: The Evolution of a Viagra Salesman, by a former Pfizer employee, have only added to the industry's woes.
...

Student

Student Avatar

Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 17, 2006 - 7:59am

I share your frustration with the current funding situation of the health care system. I caught a glimpse into some of the workings of "hospital economics" during my placement in hospital as a social work student. An extremely high emphasis is placed on moving patients out the door quickly, as our province links funding dollars to "efficient use of resources". No doubt this pressure is connected to the removal of transfer payments.

I am intrigued by the concept of a "percentage based two-tier" system, in which people would work in both systems. I've known of non-profit agencies that successfully fund important services for free by seling other services to consumers. I could see room for hospitals working in a similar fashion. However, the danger with allowing an entirely separate and parrallel private system is that rather than enriching public health care, it will gut it. A public system that must serve everyone simply cannot compete with a private system serving consumers who pay. I agree with you that the last thing we want is a system essentially run by HMOs, as exists in the U.S.

huebdoo wrote:


I would agree that Mr.Martins removal of most of the money for transfer payments is a major reason for what situation Canadian healthcare is in. I can Cleary remember VGH in Vancouver and General in Calgary both had nurses colleges attached to them (I am not sure it they exist anymore)

You also realize that doctors and nurses will go where ever they feel appreciated and compensated for their work... and if a province is paying them dirt... why should they stay? They owe us nothing

I can clearly remember talking with nurses in Saskatoon and they made less than me as a warehouse manager in Vancouver. Something is seriously wrong with that and provinces need to generate anyway of keeping nurses and doctors well paid and around for a long period of time.

This is where a percentage based two-tiered health care system can come into play, where they still have to serve in private and public (not one or the other)

This way they get paid well, stress is reduced (hopefully the private will take better care of the staff than public does)

Lets face it Health Care is a RIGHT not a Privilege, but we also must make the leap that if someone has the means financially to get something fixed they should have the right to do so and shouldn’t be forced to leave their country to do so (keep the money locally)

Yes in a perfect world we would only need a public health care system where the government and unions dance and sing and build homes for the homeless

That aint going to happen in my lifetime

I embrace the idea of two-tier over a busted public system that cant be fixed and in marches the HMO's from Hell

Something tells me that we will need to bite the bullet on this a little and realize that yes two-tier does exist and we need to insure that public does not suffer to the private sector.

I would rather bite the bullet and have some form of public health care for my children than have them with nothing.

huebdoo

huebdoo Avatar

Location: San Fran
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 16, 2006 - 11:36am

Student wrote:
There is definitely some truth in what you are saying - there are definitely elements of the two-tier system in existence in Canada today. However, there is a substantial difference between our current situation, in which an entitled few can pay to "jump the cue" and the probable situation under a full-scale two-tier system, in which quality care would largely unavailable to people without money.

To take issue with some of the facts you present - the demographic problem in nursing is not due to an exodus to the U.S., but instead due to some very short-sighted funding cuts in the early 90s (during the so-called "deficit crisis"). We cut an unprecedented 40,000 nurses nationwide, and most have not returned. The ones who remained had seniority, and are now close to retirement. Thus, the shortage of nurses is due largely to severe under-funding of the system, not problems with publicly funded healthcare per se.


I would agree that Mr.Martins removal of most of the money for transfer payments is a major reason for what situation Canadian healthcare is in. I can Cleary remember VGH in Vancouver and General in Calgary both had nurses colleges attached to them (I am not sure it they exist anymore)

You also realize that doctors and nurses will go where ever they feel appreciated and compensated for their work... and if a province is paying them dirt... why should they stay? They owe us nothing

I can clearly remember talking with nurses in Saskatoon and they made less than me as a warehouse manager in Vancouver. Something is seriously wrong with that and provinces need to generate anyway of keeping nurses and doctors well paid and around for a long period of time.

This is where a percentage based two-tiered health care system can come into play, where they still have to serve in private and public (not one or the other)

This way they get paid well, stress is reduced (hopefully the private will take better care of the staff than public does)

Lets face it Health Care is a RIGHT not a Privilege, but we also must make the leap that if someone has the means financially to get something fixed they should have the right to do so and shouldn’t be forced to leave their country to do so (keep the money locally)

Yes in a perfect world we would only need a public health care system where the government and unions dance and sing and build homes for the homeless

That aint going to happen in my lifetime

I embrace the idea of two-tier over a busted public system that cant be fixed and in marches the HMO's from Hell

Something tells me that we will need to bite the bullet on this a little and realize that yes two-tier does exist and we need to insure that public does not suffer to the private sector.

I would rather bite the bullet and have some form of public health care for my children than have them with nothing.

coding_to_music

coding_to_music Avatar

Location: Beantown
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 15, 2006 - 9:23pm

Google Search: per capita health care spending


Student

Student Avatar

Location: Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male


Posted: Mar 15, 2006 - 9:19pm

There is definitely some truth in what you are saying - there are definitely elements of the two-teir system in existence in Canada today. However, there is a substantial difference between our current situation, in which an entitled few can pay to "jump the cue" and the probable situation under a full-scale two-tier system, in which quality care would largely unavailable to people without money.

To take issue with some of the facts you present - the demographic problem in nursing is not due to an exodus to the U.S., but instead due to some very short-sighted funding cuts in the early 90s (during the so-called "deficit crisis"). We cut an unprecedented 40,000 nurses nationwide, and most have not returned. The ones who remained had seniority, and are now close to retirement. Thus, the shortage of nurses is due largely to severe under-funding of the system, not problems with publicly funded healthcare per se.

Introducing well-regulated private clinics may be a good solution for providing select services, such as MRI and other diagnostic services, that represent a "bottleneck" in the system. However, forcing a public system to compete alongside fully private hospitals for doctors, nurses, technicians, etc., will ensure the evolution of a public system that cannot maintain minimum standards of care. And remember; the Canadian public system costs less per capita and is more effective than its U.S. counterpart - solid evidence that introducing two-teired health care would make our system neither better nor more affordable.

huebdoo wrote:
Canadian health care is going to change huge in the next few years and I believe that it will eventually change to a two tier system (paid & public)

It is a simple fact of Supply and demand - Over 50% of nurses in Canada are over the age of 40 and over 35% are within 10 years of retirement

This exodus of nurses from the system will break its back, combine this with the shortness of doctors (who go south to make the real bucks) and you have a serious problem

The only way for the Canadian system to stay competitive is to initiate a two tier system where Nurses and Doctors can work a percentage in Paid system and a percentage in Public ... with ramping the percentages over time (this will increase the income of the doctors and nurses = this will bring more people into the system, or at least stem the tide of our health care professionals going south)

Fact is the two – tiered system has always been here (Name 1 NHL player that had to wait 6 months for ACL surgery like I had to)

The two tiered system is really the only way to save the public health care system. I am amazed and shocked how poor the US healthcare system is … and how little women get for maternity leave ….

It is such a shame that a country with so much gives so little to its people
Healthcare is a right – not a privalidge, but the public sectors Only chance of survival is to allow the people who work in that sector the chance to work private and public to attract new blood and increase the wealth of those who do such an important and vital service



Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 263, 264, 265  Next