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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Race in America Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 65, 66, 67  Next
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sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 8, 2021 - 4:07am

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 6, 2021 - 2:32pm

 Steely_D wrote:
And, me…I just post.
 
R_P

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Posted: Jul 6, 2021 - 11:50am

In the footsteps of the teaching of evolution, sex ed, climate change...
We Disagree on a Lot of Things. Except the Danger of Anti-Critical Race Theory Laws.
What is the purpose of a liberal education? This is the question at the heart of a bitter debate that has been roiling the nation for months.

Schools, particularly at the kindergarten-to-12th-grade level, are responsible for helping turn students into well-informed and discerning citizens. At their best, our nation’s schools equip young minds to grapple with complexity and navigate our differences. At their worst, they resemble indoctrination factories.

In recent weeks, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Iowa, Idaho and Texas have passed legislation that places significant restrictions on what can be taught in public school classrooms and, in some cases, public universities, too.

Tennessee House Bill SB 0623, for example, bans any teaching that could lead an individual to “feel discomfort, guilt, anguish or another form of psychological distress solely because of the individual’s race or sex.” In addition to this vague proscription, it restricts teaching that leads to “division between, or resentment of, a race, sex, religion, creed, nonviolent political affiliation, social class or class of people.”

Texas House Bill 3979 goes further, forbidding teaching that “slavery and racism are anything other than deviations from, betrayals of, or failures to live up to, the authentic founding principles of the United States.” It also bars any classroom from requiring “an understanding of the 1619 Project” — The New York Times Magazine’s special issue devoted to a reframing of the nation’s founding — and hence prohibits assigning any part of it as required reading.

These initiatives have been marketed as “anti-critical race theory” laws. We, the authors of this essay, have wide ideological divergences on the explicit targets of this legislation. Some of us are deeply influenced by the academic discipline of critical race theory and its critique of racist structures and admire the 1619 Project. Some of us are skeptical of structural racist explanations and racial identity itself and disagree with the mission and methodology of the 1619 Project. We span the ideological spectrum: a progressive, a moderate, a libertarian and a conservative.

It is because of these differences that we here join, as we are united in one overarching concern: the danger posed by these laws to liberal education.

The laws differ in some respects but generally agree on blocking any teaching that would lead students to feel discomfort, guilt or anguish because of one’s race or ancestry, as well as restricting teaching that subsequent generations have any kind of historical responsibility for actions of previous generations. They attempt various carve outs for the impartial teaching of the history of oppression of groups. But it’s hard to see how these attempts are at all consistent with demands to avoid discomfort. These measures would, by way of comparison, make Germany’s uncompromising and successful approach to teaching about the Holocaust illegal, as part of its goal is to infuse them with some sense of the weight of the past and (famously) lead many German students to feel anguish about their ancestry.

Indeed, the very act of learning history in a free and multiethnic society is inescapably fraught. Any accurate teaching of any country’s history could make some of its citizens feel uncomfortable (or even guilty) about the past. To deny this necessary consequence of education is, to quote W.E.B. Du Bois, to transform “history into propaganda.”

What’s more, these laws even make it difficult to teach U.S. history in a way that would reveal well-documented ways in which past policy decisions, like redlining, have contributed to present-day racial wealth gaps. An education of this sort would be negligent, creating ignorant citizens who are unable to understand, for instance, the case for reparations — or the case against them.

Because these laws often aim to protect the feelings of hypothetical children, they are dangerously imprecise. State governments exercise a high degree of lawful control over K-12 curriculum. But broad, vague laws violate due process and fundamental fairness because they don’t give the teachers fair warning of what’s prohibited. For example, the Tennessee statute prohibits a public school from including in a course of instruction any “concept” that promotes “division between, or resentment of” a “creed.” Would teachers be violating the law if they express the opinion that the creeds of Stalinism or Nazism were evil?

Other laws appear to potentially ban even expression as benign as support for affirmative action, but it’s far from clear. In fact, shortly after Texas passed its purported ban on critical race theory, the Texas Public Policy Foundation, a conservative think tank, published a list of words and concepts that help “identify critical race theory in the classroom.” The list included terms such as “social justice,” “colonialism” and “identity.” Applying the same standards to colleges or private institutions would be flatly unconstitutional.

These laws threaten the basic purpose of a historical education in a liberal democracy. But censorship is the wrong approach even to the concepts that are the intended targets of these laws.

Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 6, 2021 - 9:40am

And, me…I just post.

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 6, 2021 - 7:41am

 Coaxial wrote:

I just post what I find funny...If it stings, well, that really isn't my concern. 
{#Cheers}
 I say, good day.


I just post what I find to be the truth.
And a good day to you, sir/maam
Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 6, 2021 - 7:35am

 black321 wrote:

If you’re a person who uses memes to attack a person as “biased,” just because they don’t agree with your
theory of racism, then you aren’t trying to learn, and are just biased.

 



 
I just post what I find funny...If it stings, well, that really isn't my concern. {#Cheers} I say, good day.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 6, 2021 - 7:19am


If you’re a person who uses memes to attack a person as “biased,” just because they don’t agree with your
theory of racism, then you aren’t trying to learn, and are just biased.








sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 5, 2021 - 8:15am

Red_Dragon

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Posted: Jul 3, 2021 - 8:41am

 Coaxial wrote:
May be an image of text that says 'If you're a white person who thinks all this racism talk is getting out of hand, and you're quick to post the video of famous Black person agreeing with. you, but won't read a book from a Black person with a PhD in their field disagreeing with you, then you aren't trying to learn, you're just weaponizing Black voices to confirm your own bias. @joshua_pease'


oh snap
Coaxial

Coaxial Avatar

Location: 543 miles west of Paradis,1491 miles eas
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 3, 2021 - 8:37am

May be an image of text that says 'If you're a white person who thinks all this racism talk is getting out of hand, and you're quick to post the video of famous Black person agreeing with. you, but won't read a book from a Black person with a PhD in their field disagreeing with you, then you aren't trying to learn, you're just weaponizing Black voices to confirm your own bias. @joshua_pease'
sirdroseph

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Location: Yes
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 2, 2021 - 6:50am

R_P

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Posted: Jul 1, 2021 - 4:18pm

NYT Editorial Board
The Supreme Court Abandons Voting Rights

Section 5 was by far the most effective way to prevent voting discrimination, but according to Chief Justice John Roberts — who has been working to hobble the Voting Rights Act since he was a junior lawyer in the Reagan administration — the list of offenders was out of date. “Things have changed dramatically,” he wrote in his 2013 majority opinion, pointing to the increase in Black voter registration and turnout in the years since the Voting Rights Act was adopted. It didn’t seem to occur to him that this increase was precisely because of the law, and not in spite of it. As if to drive home the point, Republican-led states that had been under federal oversight began imposing strict new voting laws within hours of the ruling.

After 2013, Section 2 was the only meaningful tool left in the Voting Rights Act — indeed, Chief Justice Roberts pointed out this fact as supposed consolation when the court eliminated Section 5. But its medicine was never as strong. Lawsuits alleging violations under Section 2 can only be brought after a new voting law has passed, and may have been discriminating against voters for years. The suits are expensive and time-consuming, which deters most potential plaintiffs. Even when plaintiffs show incontestable proof of discrimination, as they did in Thursday’s case, the odds are stacked against them.

This is bad news for upcoming legal challenges to Republican-enacted voter restrictions in other states. Just how bad will depend in part on the outcome of a lawsuit the Justice Department filed last week against a sweeping new voting law in Georgia. The suit contends that the Georgia Republicans who passed it, upset at Democratic victories in the state’s presidential and Senate contests, intentionally targeted Black voters, who vote overwhelmingly Democratic. Proving intentional discrimination is a high bar, but Georgia’s lawmakers worked hard to make the job easier, passing all kinds of restrictions that disproportionately hurt Black voters.

#3.

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2021 - 2:45pm

 kurtster wrote:

My point was to those here, but in the overall discussion, I do agree with your point that it is a universal blame of all white people.

I did try and address that with my earlier point regarding the founding of this country as to how we as a country, allowed slavery to continue, in spite of the objections of the majority.  Slavery being a government endorsement of racism separate and exclusive from economics, politics and morality one must conclude ...


Define "white people"! As I just posted and R_P noted, the goalposts of that classification have shifted over time. Groups that weren't considered white became white over time as they were absorbed into the American mainstream.

I doubt that leaders of CRT thinking blame ALL white people. Enslavement and marginalization of Blacks has been the projects of Whites in political, social and economic power to hold on to and increase their wealth and positions of power. Racist attitudes did occur amongst poorer Whites because they wanted a class off people below them to hold lower social and political status. My guess, however, is that racism has endured and flourished when there is financial and political gain in it.

Slavery in the US IIRC was faltering until Eli Whitney's cotton gin made cotton production highly profitable. Cotton production was still labor intensive and required cheap labor, so the demand for slaves rose.

White Southerners in political power after the Civil War faced a tide of Black voters and politicians opposing therm and so enacted Jim Crow laws to hold onto power. The Jim Crows likely also helped suppress attempts at labor organization seeking better wages and working conditions.

In the South, police would help White Farmers and factory owners get extra labor during harvest and peak manufacturing periods by trumping up claims of indebtedness and crimes against Blacks and forcing them to work off their debts on the farms and in the factories.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2021 - 2:26pm

 kcar wrote:
Yes. As has been mentioned and referenced in this forum, Italians were regarded as members of a different race by Americans of northern Europeans descent. That changed when Blacks moved into new areas and the Americans of northern European descent needed a social buffer between themselves and the Blacks. The Italian-Americans then magically became members of the same race as Americans from northern Europe.

"Rapists."

kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2021 - 2:17pm

 R_P wrote:

4. Members of minority groups periodically undergo “differential racialization,” or the attribution to them of varying sets of negative stereotypes, again depending on the needs or interests of whites.



Yes. As has been mentioned and referenced in this forum, Italians were regarded as members of a different race by Americans of northern Europeans descent. That changed when Blacks moved into new areas and the Americans of northern European descent needed a social buffer between themselves and the Blacks. The Italian-Americans then magically became members of the same race as Americans from northern Europe.
R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2021 - 1:17pm

 black321 wrote:

No Kurtster, they dont just blame democrats, but all white people.
The whole argument is rather biblical, ancestral curse/white original sin.

"Critical race theorists hold that the law and legal institutions in the United States are inherently racist insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans."


N.B.: Present tense
From arrest to sentencing, racial and ethnic disparities are a defining characteristic of our criminal justice system. Not only does racial bias pervade the justice process; people of color also face disproportionately high rates of poverty, meaning they suffer from the justice system's unequal treatment of poor people. Black Americans, in particular, are disproportionately likely to be incarcerated and to receive the harshest sentences, including death sentences.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 30, 2021 - 1:15pm

 black321 wrote:
No Kurtster, they dont just blame democrats, but all white people.
The whole argument is rather biblical, ancestral curse/white original sin.
"Critical race theorists hold that the law and legal institutions in the United States are inherently racist insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans."

 
My point was to those here, but in the overall discussion, I do agree with your point that it is a universal blame of all white people.

I did try and address that with my earlier point regarding the founding of this country as to how we as a country, allowed slavery to continue, in spite of the objections of the majority.  Slavery being a government endorsement of racism separate and exclusive from economics, politics and morality one must conclude ...
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 30, 2021 - 12:57pm

No Kurtster, they dont just blame democrats, but all white people.
The whole argument is rather biblical, ancestral curse/white original sin.


"Critical race theorists hold that the law and legal institutions in the United States are inherently racist insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans."

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Jun 30, 2021 - 12:53pm

 kurtster wrote:
Let's try this again.

(Partisan piffle)

How unexpected.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Jun 30, 2021 - 12:48pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
So stereotyping is unique to Caucasians ?

In the eighteenth century, the prevalent view among European scholars was that the human species had its origin in the region of the Caucasus Mountains. This view was based upon the Caucasus being the location for the purported landing point of Noah's Ark – from whom the Bible states that humanity is descended – and the location for the suffering of Prometheus, who in Hesiod's myth had crafted humankind from clay.
Welcome to the 21st century (leave your musket and n-words at the door)...
 
Let's try this again.

 R_P wrote:

 R_P wrote:
4. Members of minority groups periodically undergo “differential racialization,” or the attribution to them of varying sets of negative stereotypes, again depending on the needs or interests of whites those in power.
 

 kurtster should have wrote:
So stereotyping is unique to those in power ?
 
and more to this point ...

 kcar wrote:
I've watched the discussion in this thread for a while but have held back from commenting. But as for this—

...

Another example: I have next to me a book called "The Color of Law", longlisted for the National Book Award, that documents how "US governments in the 20th Century deliberately imposed racial segregation on metropolitan areas nationwide."

I

 

This discussion ignores the elephant in the room.  Who was in power and in charge and created all of these laws that claimed to deal with the stereotypes, inequality and discrimination in these metropolitan areas in the 20th Century ?  Were not these the same people / party that authored the Jim Crow laws in the first place ?

Other than two other current participants in this thread, I see the entire blame for what is wrong that we are discussing placed on one party / group of people.

There must be recognition of just exactly how we got here in the first place.  Even if we are to give a pass on the failed remedies based upon the cop out / excuse of unintended consequences, we must admit these unintended consequences before we can act on them.

We can look back with present realities for one perspective, but to understand the past, the context of the past must be accepted as well.

{#Meditate}

 
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