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ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2022 - 12:10pm

 thisbody wrote:
Just calling out man's greediness! Making money of things that can't really be owned by one, or a group of people via patents.

So you clearly don't understand the problem that Pantone solves. Or how the dying dead-trees printing industry means fewer people have that problem. Pantone will likely die in our lifetimes and maybe Adobe is putting a boot to their neck deliberately, but it's not surprising that Pantone would try to come up with a way to keep their income up. Do I wish Adobe would have kept up? Sure. And like I said, I don't know why they haven't. Probably a sweetheart deal from decades ago that Pantone wasn't making any money off of. The short version is: I don't need Pantone. It's nice, but not $20/month nice, and I'm sure 95% of Adobe users haven't ever thought about it. But that 5% who do need it? $20/month is a no-brainer. Pantone's probably done their math and said something like "If we were getting 50¢/month per user on the old contract, then $20/month for 5% of all users will double our income." It's not greed, it's just numbers.

Saying it's a thing that can't be owned is like saying "how can they charge for cookbooks when I already have all the ingredients?" and then complaining when your chocolate chip cookies taste terrible because you put chicken in them.

Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2022 - 11:59am

 thisbody wrote:

So the question remains, what is the difference between "patenting" and just "buying the rights"?
Morally?

EDIT: I was yet editing my post... down there...


I was not debating the moral implications or analogies; I was referring to the literal meaning of the word.  Words matter, semantics matter - well, they do to me.  There's already more than enough reckless exaggeration and arbitrary redefinition out there.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2022 - 11:46am

 thisbody wrote:

Not intending to thread-jack. Only answering to Scott's question?

A bit late to the dance, but patents have created the environment that you benefit from countless times every day.   

Only when your efforts can be rewarded (and not stolen), is it worth toiling to create something new.   Capitalism thrives on innovation, which would stop if people had to share their efforts with whoever decided to use them without having to pay.  Computer innovation over the past 40 years has been absolutly amazing, and mostly due to the pursuit of financial reward by inventors.

Pantone was founded in the 1960's to standardize color naming and application so businesses could share an understanding of the exact same thing without having to be in the same room.  They don't own the colors, but if you want to use their language you need to pay for it...especially in business.  There are plenty of other ways to share color now (RGB, Hex, etc,),  but if you want to use their naming scheme, you have to pay for it.  

They aren't selling water in the desert, they're selling sand with names on it.  If you don't want theirs, grab some of the free stuff.

thisbody

thisbody Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2022 - 11:32am

 Proclivities wrote:
Privatizing water supply and delivery systems (as greedy as it could be considered) is not the same as "patenting drinking water".

So the question remains, what is the difference between "patenting" and just "buying the rights"?
Morally?

EDIT: I was yet editing my post... down there...

Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2022 - 11:26am

 thisbody wrote:

Not intending to thread-jack. Only answering to Scott's question?
The documentary "We Feed The World, 2005" explains what I was mentioning.. while it is still worth watching as a whole imo, here's the beef of it in this discussion. Meanwhile, the internet has been cleaned up, and Néstle have done their best to correct that image shown in the film very successfully as your comment shows, for all traces of the upheaval this documentary created then on the net are gone from the internet today (there were tons of pages, back then)...

Privatizing water supply and delivery systems (as greedy as it could be considered) is not the same as "patenting drinking water".
thisbody

thisbody Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2022 - 11:17am

 Proclivities wrote:
Obvious furthering of a thread-jack but what is this story about Nestle attempting to patent drinking water?  I know Nestle drains water for bottling from various places around the world - even some places which have very limited supplies of drinking water, but that's not the same as patenting it.  Purification systems, chemical treatments, or extraction methods can be patented, but 'patenting drinking water' sounds like hyperbole.

Not intending to thread-jack. Only answering to Scott's question?
The documentary "We Feed The World, 2005" explains what I was mentioning.. while it is still worth watching as a whole imo, here's the beef of it in this discussion. Meanwhile, the internet has been cleaned up, and Néstle have done their best to correct that image shown in the film very successfully as your comment shows, for all traces of the upheaval this documentary created then on the net are gone from the internet today (there were tons of pages, back then)... thinking... what is the difference between patenting drinking water and buying all the distribution rights?!

There's more: Bottled Life... Can you imagine someone turning ordinary water into a billion dollar business? The secret key to the blue gold lies in the hand of Swiss transnational nutrition company Nestlé.
Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2022 - 10:26am

 thisbody wrote:


Just calling out man's greediness!

Making money of things that can't really be owned by one, or a group of people via patents.

So many other examples coming to mind. HIV, COVID meds for the poor, etc. etc.

We cannot really be ok with someone patenting drinking water in the Sahara region (Néstle). Can we?


Watch out for the future, when sunlight will be patented just there by the energy undistry...

Obvious furthering of a thread-jack but what is this story about Nestle attempting to patent drinking water?  I know Nestle drains water for bottling from various places around the world - even some places which have very limited supplies of drinking water, but that's not the same as patenting it.  Purification systems, chemical treatments, or extraction methods can be patented, but 'patenting drinking water' sounds like hyperbole.
thisbody

thisbody Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2022 - 9:50am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
GIMP sucks balls. Interface is as inelegant as possible, probably as a middle finger to people who want things to be nice. Cheap bastards are better off buying Affinity Photo. It's less capable but less user-hostile than GIMP.

Pantone has had a proprietary system for communicating colors for 60 years, it's not a new thing. I don't know what the beef is between Adobe and Pantone but your take on the situation is just weird.


Just calling out man's greediness!

Making money of things that can't really be owned by one, or a group of people via patents.

So many other examples coming to mind. HIV, COVID meds for the poor, etc. etc.

We cannot really be ok with someone patenting drinking water in the Sahara region (Néstle). Can we?

Watch out for the future, when sunlight will be patented just there by the energy undistry...
miamizsun

miamizsun Avatar

Location: (3283.1 Miles SE of RP)
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2022 - 4:13am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
I've tried to do, but nothing is intuitive, and requires having a web browser open so I can search up how to do basic things—but I would do it just to prove it could be done. But now I'm old and am a lot less stubborn about things. 

just give me an AI based assistant to get that stuff done
maybe an elevated/genius smart screen

i'm sure deep mind is on it...

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 7:10pm

 rgio wrote:

I added GIMP, tried it, and deleted it.   Then I needed SVGs for a site.  After adding it back and using it a bit more...it's OK.  It could definitely be easier to use...but once I figured a few things out I've changed my mind.



I've had it available on my machines for 20 years and yeah it works for most things I've tried to do, but nothing is intuitive, and requires having a web browser open so I can search up how to do basic things—but I would do it just to prove it could be done. But now I'm old and am a lot less stubborn about things. 
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 6:33pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
GIMP sucks balls.

I added GIMP, tried it, and deleted it.   Then I needed SVGs for a site.  After adding it back and using it a bit more...it's OK.  It could definitely be easier to use...but once I figured a few things out I've changed my mind.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 3:44pm

 thisbody wrote:

So you're ok with businesses patenting the air that I breathe? You go right ahead. Mind, Nestlé the world biggest food industry hulk already went to patent water in the Sahara region.
Ok  for you? Must be, so go right ahead...

As far as dickin 'round with Walmart knockoffs.. you don't seem to know free and open-source software now, do you? Let me tell you about GIMP (GNU Linux Image Manipulation Program). It can do anything Photoshop can do, and it is completely free, as it is developed by a world community of voluntary Linux coders, again, for free.

I doubt Walmart would ever sell something like that, not even on knockoff, as you name it, as that would get them into legal trouble, because Open Source is an official license.   




GIMP sucks balls. Interface is as inelegant as possible, probably as a middle finger to people who want things to be nice. Cheap bastards are better off buying Affinity Photo. It's less capable but less user-hostile than GIMP.

Pantone has had a proprietary system for communicating colors for 60 years, it's not a new thing. I don't know what the beef is between Adobe and Pantone but your take on the situation is just weird.
thisbody

thisbody Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 29, 2022 - 10:42am

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
Professionals use professional tools. You want to dick around with walmart knockoffs you go right ahead.

You're blaming Adobe for Pantone's licensing system? Why?

So you're ok with businesses patenting the air that I breathe? You go right ahead. Mind, Nestlé the world biggest food industry hulk already went to patent water in the Sahara region.
Ok  for you? Must be, so go right ahead...

As far as dickin 'round with Walmart knockoffs.. you don't seem to know free and open-source software now, do you? Let me tell you about GIMP (GNU Linux Image Manipulation Program). It can do anything Photoshop can do, and it is completely free, as it is developed by a world community of voluntary Linux coders, again, for free.

I doubt Walmart would ever sell something like that, not even on knockoff, as you name it, as that would get them into legal trouble, because Open Source is an official license.   


ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 3:47pm

 thisbody wrote:

While y'all may be wealthy enough to pay all these ransom software fees for industrial standard (i.e. proprietary) software, how about some free and open source software (FOSS)?

Only some "little" background in this case:
Adobe has been looking for a legal system where someone can claim royalties by naming colors!



Professionals use professional tools. You want to dick around with walmart knockoffs you go right ahead.

You're blaming Adobe for Pantone's licensing system? Why?
GeneP59

GeneP59 Avatar

Location: On the edge of tomorrow looking back at yesterday.
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 2:57pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


I was CS6 until January; it finally got to be too much of a headache. Made the jump and love it, but I'm hoboing off of my daughter's college account 


The latest stuff is really cool though. And they're finally mostly done making the switch to M1 ... I couldn't get Bridge to work until just recently.

Yup still using CS6.5 because I refuse to pay to rent software. Spent thousands of dollars since Illustrator 88 and still have a beef with them not offering a perpetual license. Screwed over all of us who supported them from the beginning.
Adobe doesn’t play well with others since they wiped out Macromedia back then. Got all those boxes of software versions on a shelf in my basement office.  
I use the free CC stuff just to keep me up to date just in case I get a job some day.   

thisbody

thisbody Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 1:16pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


I was CS6 until January; it finally got to be too much of a headache. Made the jump and love it, but I'm hoboing off of my daughter's college account 

The latest stuff is really cool though. And they're finally mostly done making the switch to M1 ... I couldn't get Bridge to work until just recently.

While y'all may be wealthy enough to pay all these ransom software fees for industrial standard (i.e. proprietary) software, how about some free and open source software (FOSS)?

Only some "little" background in this case:
Adobe has been looking for a legal system where someone can claim royalties by naming colors!
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 27, 2022 - 8:40pm

 GeneP59 wrote:

Adobe has a problem with backward and forward compatibility software.
My older MP will no longer work with Adobe XD. And now they’ve bought rival Figma. Just like they killed Macromedia.  




I was CS6 until January; it finally got to be too much of a headache. Made the jump and love it, but I'm hoboing off of my daughter's college account 

The latest stuff is really cool though. And they're finally mostly done making the switch to M1 ... I couldn't get Bridge to work until just recently.
GeneP59

GeneP59 Avatar

Location: On the edge of tomorrow looking back at yesterday.
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 27, 2022 - 7:41pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


Yep. I have 16 in my MBP and have trouble running a full complement of Adobe stuff.

Adobe has a problem with backward and forward compatibility software.
My older MP will no longer work with Adobe XD. And now they’ve bought rival Figma. Just like they killed Macromedia.  

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 27, 2022 - 6:17pm

 rgio wrote:

The only problem with the Costco mini's are that they only carry 8GB of RAM.  


Yep. I have 16 in my MBP and have trouble running a full complement of Adobe stuff.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 27, 2022 - 5:10pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:


My employer is supposed to be looking at a maxxed out mini for me; I'll tell him Costco's got the price.

The only problem with the Costco mini's are that they only carry 8GB of RAM.  An extra 8GB of ram is $200...which is a worthwhile upgrade (IMO) that you can't make after the fact.

I was shocked yesterday in Costco to see the old 27" iMac on sale for $1150.  It was $750 off.  It's an older format, but that seemed like a crazy price to me for a really nice desktop with a huge, really nice 5K retina display.  I'd go for that over the mini just for the screen.  I also think you get the keyboard and mouse with the iMac that doesn't come with the mini.



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