winter wrote:  Whether you know it or not, my friend, you are a crusader.

 oldslabsides wrote: 



I know that you didn't intend any insult. That's not you.

The whole Church of England issue is as much a non-issue to me as "In God We Trust" on our currency. People see it for the basically meaningless formality it is, I think: saying that supports Cameron's assertion seems to me like calling their government a tyranny because they still have hereditary monarchs.

When people in positions of power and leadership say stuff like "this is a Christian nation", they encourage the more overt bigots to come out from under their rocks. The more obstacles we place in the way of people participating in our society, however subtle, the more we widen the divide between the In Crowd and Those Jerks. It's one thing to be marginalized by idiots writing letters to the editor, and quite another to hear it from a respected national leader with a wide following.

It's funny to see England and religion in the same paragraph.  Religion just isn't talked about here.  God knows what planet Cameron was on.

 winter wrote: 
Never mind that whole Church of England is the state-established religion thing.  I know, they don't pay it much mind anymore... still, it's there.

I never intended my post as any sort of insult to you, but I'll try to be more careful about my links to news stories in future now that I'm aware of your sensitivity. 

 arighter2 wrote: 



I'm not on a crusade. But I'm not convinced that a nation is defined by history, tradition, or law. Britain is no more inherently Christian than France or the US. And yes, I feel the slap of it here on the far side of the globe because there is no justification for saying that as an atheist I am less of a citizen, less of a patriot, less a member of society than anyone else. So to hear someone (especially a friend) take the position that it may be offensive but it's true nonetheless bothers me, frankly.

 oldslabsides wrote:  Never get in the way of a man on a crusade.

 winter wrote: 
I'm not saying I think it's a good idea - I don't.  I'm saying that it is the reality.

But, well... schlabby's wrong again.  He should know to just stfu by now.   Never mind.

 mzpro5 wrote: 



Gotcha. Same problem here. ;)

 winter wrote: 



Yes it's the limitation of the iPad, I was just kidding.

 mzpro5 wrote: 



I am going to assume you forgot to put the appropriate smiley after that.

 winter wrote: 



The fact that you are an atheist automatically makes you immoral.

 winter wrote: 



Not me I'm only 60. :)

 islander wrote: 



I agree.

My atheism makes me no more or less moral than anyone of any other belief.

 mzpro5 wrote: 



300 years ago we were British subjects over here. ;)

 oldslabsides wrote: 

Legally we are, practically we are not if that makes sense.  For example the queen is head of state and head of the church of england, however whilst all the political leaders do the formal stuff like church at christmas they dont't talk religion.  Actually the labour leader is an aetheist and it is a non-issue here as it doesn't play as a voting for him or not matter.

and loads of what Cameron says is twaddle, pity us.

 oldslabsides wrote: 



History shmistory. The US is historically a white nation, by that logic. And it's no less offensive to say so than it is to blather about being a Christian nation. Cameron isn't giving a history lesson, he's advocating for Christianity.

 oldslabsides wrote: 
From the article:
"But what I am saying is that the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today."
 

It really bugs me when people say crap like this. Sure maybe the bible enumerates some of these things. But morals and values come from people, not from words in a book. It's not like we wouldn't have morals and values without the bible. If you want to base your beliefs on a book, that's all well and good, but I don't need some ancient text (that's been transcribed by people with an agenda for a few hundred years) to tell me to be nice to the neighbors.

 winter wrote: 



Didn't you guys fight a civil war partly over that subject 300+ years ago?

 winter wrote: 
Oh, I agree.  What I'm saying is that historically, England is a lot closer to being an officially "Christian nation" than not - I think that's the PM's position.

 oldslabsides wrote: 



Disagree. To pick one religion over the others as the nation's "real" faith is to call non-adherents second-class citizens.