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cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 4, 2011 - 3:11pm

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:
Our bedroom furniture we bought when we got married 35 years ago is all dovetailed.
And it's still in great shape.
  Plus, if it has a few dings and scratches, it has character. That cheap stuff, once you move it once or twice, it doesn't have 'character', it just looks like crap.


KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 4, 2011 - 3:04pm

 kurtster wrote:

Especially those of us who experienced the OC before it was called the OC.

{#Mrgreen}
 
Yessir!
My dad was born in Anaheim in 1927.

KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 4, 2011 - 3:03pm

 cc_rider wrote:

These days, that's the GOOD crap. The stuff from the mainland is all over the map though: sometimes it's good, sometimes it's crap. We deal with Chinese vendors all the time, and it's still a strange experience.

I have a problem with all furniture made from pressed wood chips and sawdust, no matter where it's from. I would not even mind the 'flat pack' concept so much if the pieces were higher quality.
 
Our bedroom furniture we bought when we got married 35 years ago is all dovetailed.
And it's still in great shape.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 4, 2011 - 2:58pm

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

We Kurt's need to stick together.

All two of us. {#Mrgreen}

 
Especially those of us who experienced the OC before it was called the OC.

{#Mrgreen}

cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 4, 2011 - 2:57pm

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

I hate Taiwan crap!

Maybe even Scandinavian crap too! {#Lol}

 
These days, that's the GOOD crap. The stuff from the mainland is all over the map though: sometimes it's good, sometimes it's crap. We deal with Chinese vendors all the time, and it's still a strange experience.

I have a problem with all furniture made from pressed wood chips and sawdust, no matter where it's from. I would not even mind the 'flat pack' concept so much if the pieces were higher quality.

KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 4, 2011 - 2:54pm

 kurtster wrote:

Well said, all of it.

 
We Kurt's need to stick together.

All two of us. {#Mrgreen}
KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 4, 2011 - 2:52pm

 cc_rider wrote:
We have all shifted toward a 'cheap, cheaper, cheapest' attitude about, well, practically everything.

IKEA's furniture is crap, for example. To be fair, practically all furniture sold today is crap. But people buy it in droves, because it is cheap. Fast food joints race to produce the cheapest possible menu items: how much beef can there possibly be in a $.59 taco? We want to pay the least possible amount for an item, ANY item, with quality dead last in the decision. The construction trade is no different than any other industry: consumers demand ever-lower prices, and the companies who can't or won't cut their prices go out of business.

Eventually that mentality catches up to the work force: if consumers considered the consequences of their buying habits, maybe they would still have jobs. If we refused to buy cheap disposable products, maybe the companies that used to produce reasonably priced, durable goods might still be in business.
 
I hate Taiwan crap!

Maybe even Scandinavian crap too! {#Lol}
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 4, 2011 - 2:47pm

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

Well I've been in the drywall business for right at 40 years now and I can say that statement is true whether the guy is white, black, brown, purple or green.
There's losers everywhere. My friend calls them 80%er's.
Somebody always wants a handout.
Let them go hungry for awhile, then they'll realize they need to get off their butts and work.
Reward those who are willing, forget the dorks.

A few years back, a bunch of the imported labor help, (in the form of drywall hangers in the L.A. and Orange County area), formed a union.
Their prices kept getting cut more and more by stupid contractors who took advantage of them.
They were realizing, after being in the U.S. for some time..."Why do we have to live in one house with 4 other families?"
"Why are we working so hard and making pennies"?
They were becoming Americans!

I do agree there needs to be a path to citizenship... only if they can stop the flow at the border.

 
Well said, all of it.


cc_rider

cc_rider Avatar

Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 4, 2011 - 2:25pm

 Proclivities wrote:
I don't know if the Feds' methods vary from state to state or not regarding the trades.  Generally, around here, the most common times I hear about the Federal government getting involved in construction is if there's a severe, work-related accident and/or death.  Then it's OSHA who comes in, not INS - well, not right away, as far as I've seen or read.  I think the contractors usually have their hands tied as well: most potential customers will only pay so much, (which seems to be less than it was some years ago) but the contractor still has to find a way to make a profit on the job.  It's not charity, after all, and it usually isn't very much fun.
  We have all shifted toward a 'cheap, cheaper, cheapest' attitude about, well, practically everything.

IKEA's furniture is crap, for example. To be fair, practically all furniture sold today is crap. But people buy it in droves, because it is cheap. Fast food joints race to produce the cheapest possible menu items: how much beef can there possibly be in a $.59 taco? We want to pay the least possible amount for an item, ANY item, with quality dead last in the decision. The construction trade is no different than any other industry: consumers demand ever-lower prices, and the companies who can't or won't cut their prices go out of business.

Eventually that mentality catches up to the work force: if consumers considered the consequences of their buying habits, maybe they would still have jobs. If we refused to buy cheap disposable products, maybe the companies that used to produce reasonably priced, durable goods might still be in business.

KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 4, 2011 - 2:11pm

 Alpine wrote:


In my landscape business we had 20 laborers at one point back during the boom.  When the downturn hit we were down to as little as four, now we are back up to 10.  In my 21 years in business I've learned that the white guys are the laziest, flakeyest, spoiled, greedy, bunch of troublemakers.  The Mexicans never miss work, show up early, do excellent work and they don't complain.  The white guys show up drunk, (if they show up), are always late, leave early, steal, lie and argue.

White laborers around here have no work ethic.

There needs to be a path to citizenship for these Mexicans.  There is so much saber rattling from the feds about punishing employers for hiring illegal immigrants, but they still take our payroll tax deposits.  Bullshit!
 
Well I've been in the drywall business for right at 40 years now and I can say that statement is true whether the guy is white, black, brown, purple or green.
There's losers everywhere. My friend calls them 80%er's.
Somebody always wants a handout.
Let them go hungry for awhile, then they'll realize they need to get off their butts and work.
Reward those who are willing, forget the dorks.

A few years back, a bunch of the imported labor help, (in the form of drywall hangers in the L.A. and Orange County area), formed a union.
Their prices kept getting cut more and more by stupid contractors who took advantage of them.
They were realizing, after being in the U.S. for some time..."Why do we have to live in one house with 4 other families?"
"Why are we working so hard and making pennies"?
They were becoming Americans!

I do agree there needs to be a path to citizenship... only if they can stop the flow at the border.


Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 3, 2011 - 5:05pm

 Alpine wrote:


In my landscape business we had 20 laborers at one point back during the boom.  When the downturn hit we were down to as little as four, now we are back up to 10.  In my 21 years in business I've learned that the white guys are the laziest, flakeyest, spoiled, greedy, bunch of troublemakers.  The Mexicans never miss work, show up early, do excellent work and they don't complain.  The white guys show up drunk, (if they show up), are always late, leave early, steal, lie and argue.

White laborers around here have no work ethic.

There needs to be a path to citizenship for these Mexicans.  There is so much saber rattling from the feds about punishing employers for hiring illegal immigrants, but they still take our payroll tax deposits.  Bullshit!
 
I don't know if the Feds' methods vary from state to state or not regarding the trades.  Generally, around here, the most common times I hear about the Federal government getting involved in construction is if there's a severe, work-related accident and/or death.  Then it's OSHA who comes in, not INS - well, not right away, as far as I've seen or read.  I think the contractors usually have their hands tied as well: most potential customers will only pay so much, (which seems to be less than it was some years ago) but the contractor still has to find a way to make a profit on the job.  It's not charity, after all, and it usually isn't very much fun.


Alpine

Alpine Avatar

Location: N39d39mW121d30m
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 3, 2011 - 4:01pm

 Proclivities wrote:


It's not just a matter of illegals "taking away" jobs.  If there are GC's or other contractors hiring illegals, it is them giving away jobs.  Obviously, and very unfortunately, labor has been cheapened by the presence of illegal or "day labor", but it's a matter of who's hiring them too.  If no one hired them for those jobs, they wouldn't show up to take them.  I've only worked with painting and carpentry outfits who never used undocumented labor, but I've also had to compete with lowball bids from other contractors who were using cheap labor of some sort.  I've also talked with some contractors who believe that the illegals often work harder and better, as well as cheaper.  I'm not sure how often that's true, but I've heard it often - even from at least one poster here.

 

In my landscape business we had 20 laborers at one point back during the boom.  When the downturn hit we were down to as little as four, now we are back up to 10.  In my 21 years in business I've learned that the white guys are the laziest, flakeyest, spoiled, greedy, bunch of troublemakers.  The Mexicans never miss work, show up early, do excellent work and they don't complain.  The white guys show up drunk, (if they show up), are always late, leave early, steal, lie and argue.

White laborers around here have no work ethic.

There needs to be a path to citizenship for these Mexicans.  There is so much saber rattling from the feds about punishing employers for hiring illegal immigrants, but they still take our payroll tax deposits.  Bullshit!

Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 3, 2011 - 9:41am

 kurtster wrote:

I know what you are up against.  People out here don't get it.  As much as we try and tell them it is more than dishwashing and cleaning jobs they are taking, most still think those are the only jobs being taken away, that and farm work.  No, they are taking away damn good jobs from Americans, that Americans still want to do. 

 

It's not just a matter of illegals "taking away" jobs.  If there are GC's or other contractors hiring illegals, it is them giving away jobs.  Obviously, and very unfortunately, labor has been cheapened by the presence of illegal or "day labor", but it's a matter of who's hiring them too.  If no one hired them for those jobs, they wouldn't show up to take them.  I've only worked with painting and carpentry outfits who never used undocumented labor, but I've also had to compete with lowball bids from other contractors who were using cheap labor of some sort.  I've also talked with some contractors who believe that the illegals often work harder and better, as well as cheaper.  I'm not sure how often that's true, but I've heard it often - even from at least one poster here.


KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 3, 2011 - 8:51am

 kurtster wrote:

I know what you are up against.  People out here don't get it.  As much as we try and tell them it is more than dishwashing and cleaning jobs they are taking, most still think those are the only jobs being taken away, that and farm work.  No, they are taking away damn good jobs from Americans, that Americans still want to do. 

 
I wish I had more work us Americans don't want to do.

KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 3, 2011 - 8:48am

 bokey wrote:

Around here they don't even pay them by the hour,much less by the piece.It's a straight up deal - X amount of dollars for the day.

 I don't want to do drywall by any means, but it sucks that I could get $20+ an hour 20 years ago and probably couldn't get half that now if I was in a bind and needed the money.

 
This is the trend for sure.
Back in the "evil times" of Reagan I was making over $1600.00 a week with union benefits. (the union frowned upon piece work... it wasn't FAIR! Liberals!)
Again, that was MAKING it doing piece work.  I worked hard. Still do, when it's there.
Most guys were making $800.00 a week. Still not bad.

Now the unions are gone... their own fault.


bokey

bokey Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2011 - 6:57pm

 kurtster wrote:

Yes, dry wall was traditionally done / bid by the 'square' or piece work.   I don't know how much that has changed out there over time.   Its still pretty much that way out here and we haven't had anywhere near the influx y'all have had out there, plus construction is more seasonal out here.   Most framing is timed to be finished by late fall at worst in a stick house.   Get the exterior pretty much finished to enclose and be able to contain heat for the inside in the winter.   Very little rough work is done during the winter.   So that cramps the style of the interlopers.   You have a 12 month building season out there.

I know what you are up against.   People out here don't get it.   As much as we try and tell them it is more than dishwashing and cleaning jobs they are taking, most still think those are the only jobs being taken away, that and farm work.   No, they are taking away damn good jobs from Americans, that Americans still want to do.  

 
Around here they don't even pay them by the hour, much less by the piece. It's a straight up deal - X amount of dollars for the day.

 I don't want to do drywall by any means, but it sucks that I could get $20+ an hour 20 years ago and probably couldn't get half that now if I was in a bind and needed the money.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2011 - 6:48pm

 KurtfromLaQuinta wrote:

I can still "make" (not given) great wages working piece work.
I can usually outperform a house full of family members 8 to 1.
And thankfully, when I bid jobs, people know I can get the job done a lot faster than guys that bid against me.
My price may be higher than the previous bid, but they weigh the time difference, and I get the job.

The problem is, if I don't get there first, I don't get the job.
They think they're getting a deal.

Many times I get a phone call after the home owner has had it with their contractor taking  weeks to do the job.
They ask me how much to finish the job.
I tell them X dollars. They say that's a little more than the other guy wants to finish.
(Which, by the way, is another tactic they employ... everything is an extra.)
They ask me how many weeks to finish... I say weeks? I'll have it done by tomorrow.
Then nothing more is said about the price.

 
Yes, dry wall was traditionally done / bid by the 'square' or piece work.  I don't know how much that has changed out there over time.  Its still pretty much that way out here and we haven't had anywhere near the influx y'all have had out there, plus construction is more seasonal out here.  Most framing is timed to be finished by late fall at worst in a stick house.  Get the exterior pretty much finished to enclose and be able to contain heat for the inside in the winter.  Very little rough work is done during the winter.  So that cramps the style of the interlopers.  You have a 12 month building season out there.

I know what you are up against.  People out here don't get it.  As much as we try and tell them it is more than dishwashing and cleaning jobs they are taking, most still think those are the only jobs being taken away, that and farm work.  No, they are taking away damn good jobs from Americans, that Americans still want to do. 


KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2011 - 3:44pm

 kurtster wrote:


Yep the building trades, you dry wall, my wife's, painting.  Toss in carpentry, masonry, etc.   These are were all great paying jobs.  A fair wage for a good job. 

These jobs paid on average $30 / hour on up. 

 
I can still "make" (not given) great wages working piece work.
I can usually outperform a house full of family members 8 to 1.
And thankfully, when I bid jobs, people know I can get the job done a lot faster than guys that bid against me.
My price may be higher than the previous bid, but they weigh the time difference, and I get the job.

The problem is, if I don't get there first, I don't get the job.
They think they're getting a deal.

Many times I get a phone call after the home owner has had it with their contractor taking  weeks to do the job.
They ask me how much to finish the job.
I tell them X dollars. They say that's a little more than the other guy wants to finish.
(Which, by the way, is another tactic they employ... everything is an extra.)
They ask me how many weeks to finish... I say weeks? I'll have it done by tomorrow.
Then nothing more is said about the price.


KurtfromLaQuinta

KurtfromLaQuinta Avatar

Location: Really deep in the heart of South California
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2011 - 3:28pm

 bokey wrote:

In Maryland it was passed by the criminal state senate and signed by the criminal governor.Hopefully it will be defeated by the honest voters via referendum in 2012.

 Honestly, what part of "illegal" is so hard to understand?{#Frustrated}

 
Just don't put that word in front of immigrant.
Then every thing is fine. {#Rolleyes}
bokey

bokey Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 2, 2011 - 2:30pm

 jagdriver wrote:

Witness the signing of the Dream Act.

 
In Maryland it was passed by the criminal state senate and signed by the criminal governor. Hopefully it will be defeated by the honest voters via referendum in 2012.

 Honestly, what part of "illegal" is so hard to understand? {#Frustrated}


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