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Index » Regional/Local » USA/Canada » Supreme Court: Who's Next? Page: Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 6, 7, 8 ... 37, 38, 39  Next
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kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 22, 2020 - 12:10pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
I guess that it is hard for someone who believes in mob rule to understand how and why our SCOTUS was designed.to function and its purpose.
 
Changing who gets to pick makes no difference to how it's supposed to function.

Despite all the love of faux-populist rhetoric, you're still smitten with swampy political elites (i.e. republicanism).
 
It absolutely does.  That you do not understand that must come from your lack of understanding of the founding of this country.

I seriously doubt that not being in this country has led to any formal US History education at length in an accredited educational institution. Either at a primary or secondary level.

Quite frankly, why would it ?  Unless you were a History major.  Same as I have had very little education of Holland's history, which you have having grown up there.

Direct election of Justices puts political pressure on them to make decisions a certain way, regardless of what the Constitution mandates.
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 22, 2020 - 8:56am

 kurtster wrote:
I guess that it is hard for someone who believes in mob rule to understand how and why our SCOTUS was designed.to function and its purpose.
 
Changing who gets to pick makes no difference to how it's supposed to function.

Despite all the love of faux-populist rhetoric, you're still smitten with swampy political elites (i.e. republicanism).
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 22, 2020 - 8:42am

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
Because the selection is put up to a popular vote.  You do the math.
 
Can't have the rabble decide things, can we?
 
I guess that it is hard for someone who believes in mob rule to understand how and why our SCOTUS was designed.to function and its purpose.
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 22, 2020 - 8:05am

 kurtster wrote:
Because the selection is put up to a popular vote.  You do the math.
 
Can't have the rabble decide things, can we?
cc_rider

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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 22, 2020 - 7:38am



 rgio wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

That turns it into a politically motivated arm of the government instead of an independent apolitical (as designed) one.
 
So I think John Roberts should step in and fix that.

He should come out and say...If the replacement for RBG is rushed through in 3 months (when the same party denied the past President the same rights over 10 months),  AND...the President is not reelected...he will step down and allow the next President to replace him.  

While the hypocrisy on the right is mind-numbing, the democrat suggestions that they'll expand the court and pack it with liberals are equally stupid.  John Roberts and the rest of the court need to rise above the politics (the reason they have lifetime appointments) and exert some of their own power in our three-branch democracy.

RBG will lie in State on Friday.   Politicians discussing her replacement in public before next week is vulgar.
 
Which is exactly why Trump said he will put forth a nominee before the woman is even buried. Vulgar.
c.


rgio

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Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 22, 2020 - 6:37am



 islander wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

Because the selection is put up to a popular vote.  You do the math.
 

But that is what you wanted just a couple years ago. So are you hypocritical now, or were you hypocritical then?
 

There is no reason to create more voting.  We have a system and it is in theory supported by votes.  

It's amazing to see someone who supports the Right make comments about popular votes...it has been among the Republican Party's greatest achievement to fix elections so that the popular opinion is gerrymandered or disenfranchised out of the results.

We have a process, and the people in charge of that process have to maintain some sense of order and fair play.  

Lindsey Graham finds himself in a race for his seat and is following the lead of the failed 2018 Republicans who put their trust in Trump's coattails.  If the people of South Carolina don't run him out of office, the State should become a punchline to every future joke that hints at "keeping your word".
islander

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Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 22, 2020 - 5:59am



 kurtster wrote:

Because the selection is put up to a popular vote.  You do the math.
 

But that is what you wanted just a couple years ago. So are you hypocritical now, or were you hypocritical then?
sirdroseph

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Location: Not here, I tell you wat
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 22, 2020 - 2:58am



 kurtster wrote:

That turns it into a politically motivated arm of the government instead of an independent apolitical (as designed) one.
 

That ship has so sailed.
 
 
 
 
Direct vote is not the answer either.  I long for a world to where somehow we could nominate only judges that neither side of the duopoly wants or even notices.   Someone so apolitical and purely law bound that neither team even gives them a second thought.  How can we make that happen? 
 
 
Edit:  A thought. We still nominate, but extract the nomination process from the political machine by changing the nominators.  maybe within the realm of upper level judges state and federal; a nomination through their peers and then the confirmation process can stand as it is.  Just a thought.
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 9:34pm

 R_P wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
That turns it into a politically motivated arm of the government instead of an independent apolitical (as designed) one.
 
Why?
 
Because the selection is put up to a popular vote.  You do the math.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 8:42pm

Slate.com offers an interesting approach to limit politicization of the SC and also the power of the Court over our lives. The article is free if you want to read more or all of it. 


(This bio thumbnail is taken from a law review article  by Sprigman that he links to in the excerpt below:):
Christopher Jon Sprigman is a professor at New York University School of Law, co-director of NYU’s Engelberg Center on Innovation Law and Policy, and co-author of The Knockoff Economy: How Imitation Sparks Innovation.



How to Save the Law Without Packing the Court

By CHRISTOPHER JON SPRIGMAN

There is another, better, way to rein in partisan judges: by stripping the Supreme Court, and also the lower federal courts, of jurisdiction where Congress does not want partisan judges second-guessing particular decisions—especially where, as is so often true, the Constitution does not speak directly to an issue and courts are making political choices rather than legal judgments. That strategy, while perhaps a bit more difficult to reduce to a sound bite or a campaign slogan, gets directly at the problem of partisan judicial activism. It is also a more focused and less overtly politicized approach compared with court packing.

Perhaps the most powerful argument for jurisdiction stripping is that the Constitution clearly permits it. Article III, section 1 of the Constitution gives Congress complete discretion on whether to create the lower federal courts, a power that Congress has used from the founding to limit lower courts’ jurisdiction. And Article III, section 2, clause 2 explicitly empowers Congress to make “exceptions” to the Supreme Court’s appellate jurisdiction—that is, to pick and choose for approximately 99 percent of the Supreme Court’s total docket what cases the Court has the power to hear. As I explain in a law review article, to be published in December in the New York University Law Review, under its Article III authority, Congress can remove the Supreme Court’s appellate jurisdiction over particular cases, or particular issues, largely without constraint.

Congress also has the power to limit the jurisdiction of state courts to hear federal questions, including constitutional claims. But on a practical level, it would not matter much even if state courts still hear federal constitutional claims. State courts lack both the authority to enjoin federal officials and the practical institutional power to counter a determined federal government.

The implications of Congress’s Article III power are potentially profound. Congress’s power over courts’ jurisdiction means that it can claim for itself authority to interpret the Constitution in particular cases. In the short term, it is a strategy that Democrats can use to rein in the partisan federal courts that the four-decade-long GOP obsession with appointing right-wing partisans to the federal bench has created. But the ultimate promise of jurisdiction stripping isn’t as a short-term stratagem to restore the courts’ partisan balance. It is a deeper remedy that can help put an end to the unhealthy situation in which Americans look to federal courts to resolve every important political question.

What does that mean in practice? A couple of examples might help.



Steely_D

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Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 7:55pm



 islander wrote:


 kurtster wrote:

That turns it into a politically motivated arm of the government instead of an independent apolitical (as designed) one.
 
If it is independent and apolitical, why the resistance to letting Obama have his pick? And why the urgency now?

 

Sure. You could see, instead, a committee made of 4 this and 4 that and they come up with a name, etc.
rgio

rgio Avatar

Location: West Jersey
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 7:26pm



 kurtster wrote:

That turns it into a politically motivated arm of the government instead of an independent apolitical (as designed) one.
 
So I think John Roberts should step in and fix that.

He should come out and say...If the replacement for RBG is rushed through in 3 months (when the same party denied the past President the same rights over 10 months),  AND...the President is not reelected...he will step down and allow the next President to replace him.  

While the hypocrisy on the right is mind-numbing, the democrat suggestions that they'll expand the court and pack it with liberals are equally stupid.  John Roberts and the rest of the court need to rise above the politics (the reason they have lifetime appointments) and exert some of their own power in our three-branch democracy.

RBG will lie in State on Friday.   Politicians discussing her replacement in public before next week is vulgar.
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 7:25pm

 kurtster wrote:
That turns it into a politically motivated arm of the government instead of an independent apolitical (as designed) one.
 
Why?
islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 6:51pm



 kurtster wrote:

That turns it into a politically motivated arm of the government instead of an independent apolitical (as designed) one.
 
If it is independent and apolitical, why the resistance to letting Obama have his pick? And why the urgency now?

kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 5:19pm

 R_P wrote:

 
Since you have a de facto two party system, let those two parties alternate in picking.

PS: The party for a cycle gets to pick X candidates, the people pick the judge by voting.
 
That turns it into a politically motivated arm of the government instead of an independent apolitical (as designed) one.
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 3:46pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:
 westslope wrote:
Make that 4 persons following this thread.  

I just quickly read a New York Times email out entitled Surrendered court seats.

I could not help wondering why nominating Supreme Court judges in the USA is so hyper-partisan compared to all other rich, developed nations.   Why?  

Why not change the way Supreme Court judges are nominated?  
 
I'm not sure there's a better process. Elect better presidents, get better judges.
 
Since you have a de facto two party system, let those two parties alternate in picking.

PS: The party for a cycle gets to pick X candidates, the people pick the judge by voting.
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 3:29pm



 westslope wrote:
Make that 4 persons following this thread.  

I just quickly read a New York Times email out entitled Surrendered court seats.

I could not help wondering why nominating Supreme Court judges in the USA is so hyper-partisan compared to all other rich, developed nations.   Why?  

Why not change the way Supreme Court judges are nominated?  
 
I'm not sure there's a better process. Elect better presidents, get better judges.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 3:19pm

 steeler wrote:


I do suspect you are right, though, that fewer than 3 people are still reading — and that includes the 2 of us!  
 
I'm reading.  So far I'm mostly agreeing with L8

The court needs to be constructionist or originalist or what ever you want to call it.  It has to be the place where bad laws go to die, get struck down, not get rewritten..

That would force Congress to write better laws that work rather than being so unworkable because they were written to end up in the court where the intent of the authors can be set in to effect through the back door with a favorable decision by a court that is willing to look the other way from the Constitution as the last word on how the laws must work when enforced.
westslope

westslope Avatar

Location: BC sage brush steppe


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 2:34pm

Make that 4 persons following this thread.  

I just quickly read a New York Times email out entitled Surrendered court seats.

I could not help wondering why nominating Supreme Court judges in the USA is so hyper-partisan compared to all other rich, developed nations.   Why?  

Why not change the way Supreme Court judges are nominated?  
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Sep 21, 2020 - 1:58pm



 Lazy8 wrote:
It's another busy day in a busy weekend in a busy election cycle in a busy year, so for the three people still following the thread who are eagerly awaiting my reply to steeler's post I'll just urge you to read what I've already posted. I've said what I need to on that, and I've already responded to those points. And I want to move on.

In 2016 Mitch McConnell made up a new rule about Supreme court appointments during an election year. Outrage! How dare he! There is no such rule, this is a transparent move for partisan advantage!

This year that rule is no longer in effect. There is some slippery mumbo-jumbo to justify it, but it was again a clearly partisan play.

This, in a nutshell, is my objection to the "living constitution" principle, except with the Supreme court the stake are infinitely higher.

This doctrine makes the words of the constitution infinitely malleable. They mean whatever it's convenient for those in power to mean. And since the constitution's function is to define the limits on the powers of government making those powers infinitely adjustable means those in charge can do whatever they want.

Want to know what the law says, what you as a resident or citizen are required to do or refrain from doing, what the government can do to you? You can't. There may be words that spell that out but they mean whatever those in power want them to mean. They may mean the opposite of what's written, they may mean nothing at all. And they didn't have to revise the document to make that happen, just edit the dictionary—or just make something up. The doctrine of qualified immunity, for instance.

There will be a huge amount of noise in the next few weeks about the politics of the next nominee. That only matters because of the willingness of the court to ignore the text in front of them and substitute their own biases and priorities.

One of my political heroes, Harry Browne (two time Libertarian presidential candidate) was once asked if he had a litmus test for a Supreme Court nominee. He did:

"Can you read?

A potential nominee who can pass a reading test would then be asked what the words, 'Congress shall make no law' mean. "


 
You did not address the points I made in my last post, but certainly your prerogative to leave them unaddressed and move on.

The rest is rather thin gruel.

I do suspect you are right, though, that fewer than 3 people are still reading — and that includes the 2 of us!  

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