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ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 8:55am

 Lazy8 wrote:

The FDA is why we don't have readily-available home test kits for covid. 


I got a 2-pack for $14 at Walmart last week*; apparently Uncle Joe is pushing to make insurance reimburse that cost.

*Charlie tested negative
ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 8:53am

 black321 wrote:


As for Fauci, while not jumping 100% on the natural origin theory, he did lean heavily one way:




Read the book, Spillover, by David Quammen and you'll understand just how nearly inevitable it is that a natural origin did or will happen. So the finger-pointing is almost beside the point—a curiosity. We need to get this behind us, learn from it how to prevent the next one, and what to do when our protection fails. 
The next big and murderous human pandemic, the one that kills us in millions, will be caused by a new disease—new to humans, anyway. The bug that's responsible will be strange, unfamiliar, but it won't come from outer space. Odds are that the killer pathogen—most likely a virus—will spill over into humans from a nonhuman animal. (2012)

Lazy8

Lazy8 Avatar

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 8:49am

 kurtster wrote:
Well then.  That makes him infallible, above any reproach and the expert of everything he speaks ...

Or

The newest poster boy for the Peter Principle.

What about it would make him Josef Mengele?

His position does not have statutory authority. He cannot give an order and compel you to follow it. His role is information, specifically to advise the president—a role he has filled for 7 presidents. His word is not law, it's advice.

The demonization of this man baffles me. When a new disease emerges it's a mystery to everyone, including the people who are tasked with understanding it and advising people who make policy. They can try and get ahead of it by doing research to understand possible threats or therapies (like MRNA vaccines, a technique 30 years in the making), and this is a huge help. But the actual disease will still be new and its behavior unknown. That means when an advisor is asked to give his best guess on what to do it is just that—a guess. An educated guess, but a guess. As we learn we revise those guesses.

That doesn't make the earlier guesses lies.

He has said things you didn't want to hear. That doesn't make him wrong, it doesn't make him a nazi war criminal, and it doesn't make him a movie villain. He is visible in ways that, say, the directors of the CDC and the FDA aren't but these agencies have a lot more to do with the conduct of the government than he does, and they bear a lot of the blame for the progress of the disease in the US. The FDA is why we don't have readily-available home test kits for covid. The CDC was the bottleneck in early testing to track the disease's progress as it emerged. Fauci is not.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 8:13am

 kurtster wrote:

I feel pretty confident that it was a lab leak.

Besides all of the various articles I have seen on the subject, I have also applied kurtster logic and common sense in coming to my conclusion.

If ... if it was natural, China, by now would have gone out of its way to prove that it was.  Since China has done everything possible to obfuscate, deter and change the subject when mentioned of its origin only one conclusion can be made. 

So until proven otherwise, I conclude it was man made in the Wuhan Lab and got loose somehow.

Feel free to prove otherwise.  I will listen with an open mind.


We all have opinions...that's fine.
But I also hope we are all humble enough to admit what we don't know.
I don't know, but also believe it could have been a lab leak...more likely an accident than intentional.
I also don't know if wuhan was the origin, there is also evidence it may not have been.

This article (June 2021) has a good summary of how the lab/natural origin story was mishandled, and most people and the media bought into it. 

There remain some legitimate scientific debate about whether genetic manipulation of the virus can be completely ruled out, in part because not all genetic engineering methods leave tell-tale markers and also because the virus’ genome does have some unusual features.

While regretting using the term “smoking gun” in a recent high-profile interview, Nobel Prize-winning virologist David Baltimore remains concerned that a feature of the virus, called a “furin cleavage site,” could point to engineering.

“I believe that the question of whether the sequence was put in naturally or by molecular manipulation is very hard to determine but I wouldn’t rule out either origin,” he told the Los Angeles Times.

But lab accidents with a fully natural virus – one that might have been collected, stored or studied at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and infected a worker – are also the focus of calls for investigation. The institute’s top coronavirus researcher Shi Zhengli and representatives of the Chinese government have repeatedly said the lab never had any such virus and had nothing to do with starting the pandemic. They have expressed outrage and frustration at what they see as baseless and politically motivated questions.

https://www.usatoday.com/story...

As for Fauci, while not jumping 100% on the natural origin theory, he did lean heavily one way:

(May 2020) Fauci, the director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, shot down the discussion that has been raging among politicians and pundits, calling it “a circular argument” in a conversation Monday with National Geographic.

“If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated … Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that evolved in nature and then jumped species,” Fauci says. Based on the scientific evidence, he also doesn’t entertain an alternate theory—that someone found the coronavirus in the wild, brought it to a lab, and then it accidentally escaped.






Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 2, 2021 - 7:41am

 kurtster wrote:

Well then.  That makes him infallible, above any reproach and the expert of everything he speaks ...

Or

The newest poster boy for the Peter Principle.


Or, a qualified educated person in a position that he’s qualified for that should be listened to.

President Trump is the best example of the Peter Principle catastrophe. 

R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 11:25pm



She gets 'm all frothy...
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 10:26pm

 Steely_D wrote:
 kurtster wrote:
So what makes Fauci so special ?

Many things. 

THE IMPRESSIVE RESUME OF DR. ANTHONY FAUCI- 54 YEARS OF ACHIEVEMENT



 
Well then.  That makes him infallible, above any reproach and the expert of everything he speaks ...

Or

The newest poster boy for the Peter Principle.
Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 9:16pm

 kurtster wrote:
So what makes Fauci so special ?

Many things. 

THE IMPRESSIVE RESUME OF DR. ANTHONY FAUCI- 54 YEARS OF ACHIEVEMENT



From the NIH bio:

In a 2021 analysis of Google Scholar citations, Dr. Fauci ranked as the 35th most-cited living researcher. According to the Web of Science, Dr. Fauci ranked 9th out of 2.5 million authors in the field of immunology by total citation count between 1980 and January 2021. During the same period, he ranked 20th out of 2.4 million authors in the field of research & experimental medicine, and 132nd out of 992,000 authors in the field of general & internal medicine.

Dr. Fauci has delivered major lectures all over the world and is the recipient of numerous prestigious awards, including the Presidential Medal of Freedom (the highest honor given to a civilian by the President of the United States), the National Medal of Science, the George M. Kober Medal of the Association of American Physicians, the Mary Woodard Lasker Award for Public Service, the Albany Medical Center Prize in Medicine and Biomedical Research, the Robert Koch Gold Medal, the Prince Mahidol Award, and the Canada Gairdner Global Health Award. He also has received 51 honorary doctoral degrees from universities in the United States and abroad.



kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 8:38pm

 steeler wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

You're playing games.  Why don't you say what you think about it.  Then I might answer your question once you commit to a position yourself. Let me help you here.  It is not apt because ...
I am going to decline your invitation to hop on board the Jackassery Express with you.
 
Cop out.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 8:26pm

 kurtster wrote:

You're playing games. 

Why don't you say what you think about it.  Then I might answer your question once you commit to a position yourself.

Let me help you here.  It is not apt because ...



I am going to decline your invitation to hop on board the Jackassery Express with you.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 8:24pm

 steeler wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

You are saying that criticizing Fauci is off limits ? Fauci is fair game as a celebrity and politician, based upon both his words and deeds.
No, I am not saying — nor did I say — that criticizing Fauci is off limits. Are you saying a comparison of Dr. Fauci to Dr. Mengele is an apt one?
 
You're playing games. 

Why don't you say what you think about it.  Then I might answer your question once you commit to a position yourself.

Let me help you here.  It is not apt because ...
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 8:16pm

 kurtster wrote:

You are saying that criticizing Fauci is off limits ?

Fauci is fair game as a celebrity and politician, based upon both his words and deeds.


No, I am not saying — nor did I say — that criticizing Fauci is off limits.

Are you saying a comparison of Dr. Fauci to Dr. Mengele is an apt one?
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 7:46pm

 steeler wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

A further thought.  All of a sudden comparing a politician to a Nazi is beyond the pale ?  Trump, Bush, and other republican types were never off limits.  So what makes Fauci so special ?  The man is playing god with us.  Worse yet is he is an unelected bureaucrat who just showed up one day and took over.
So you evidently believe that a comparison of Dr. Fauci to Dr. Mengele is an apt one. Ok then. Speaks for itself.
 
You are saying that criticizing Fauci is off limits ?

Fauci is fair game as a celebrity and politician, based upon both his words and deeds.
Manbird

Manbird Avatar

Location: Owl Creek Bridge
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 6:04pm

 kurtster wrote:

A further thought.  All of a sudden comparing a politician to a Nazi is beyond the pale ?  Trump, Bush, and other republican types were never off limits.  So what makes Fauci so special ?  The man is playing god with us.  Worse yet is he is an unelected bureaucrat who just showed up one day and took over.



too funny


Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 5:27pm

 kurtster wrote:

Yeah, so what ?  If the shoe fits ...



And when it really doesn't? Then it's just propaganda.

Again, it's become painfully obvious that Americans are under attack in social media by foreign agents who spread lies about immunizations and infectious disease so as to 1) destroy Americans' confidence in its leaders and 2) cause the unnecessary death of coming up on a million citizens. Is that "Freedom" or some such nonsense? 

No, it's a successful misinformation campaign with an obvious disastrous result.
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Dec 1, 2021 - 4:27pm

 kurtster wrote:

A further thought.  All of a sudden comparing a politician to a Nazi is beyond the pale ?  Trump, Bush, and other republican types were never off limits.  So what makes Fauci so special ?  The man is playing god with us.  Worse yet is he is an unelected bureaucrat who just showed up one day and took over.


So you evidently believe that a comparison of Dr. Fauci to Dr. Mengele is an apt one.

Ok then. Speaks for itself.


R_P

R_P Avatar



Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 10:12pm

With the omicron COVID-19 variant, Fox News again pushes vile propaganda — while pretending not to
In a rigged game, the network’s misinformation, scare campaigns, and Nazi comparison drown out anyone that tries to break through
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 9:45pm

 steeler wrote:

Beyond the pale.
 
A further thought.  All of a sudden comparing a politician to a Nazi is beyond the pale ?  Trump, Bush, and other republican types were never off limits.  So what makes Fauci so special ?  The man is playing god with us.  Worse yet is he is an unelected bureaucrat who just showed up one day and took over.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 9:18pm

 black321 wrote:
 
Of course you are jumping to the conclusion this was a lab leak, and not natural....good luck with that.
 
I feel pretty confident that it was a lab leak.

Besides all of the various articles I have seen on the subject, I have also applied kurtster logic and common sense in coming to my conclusion.

If ... if it was natural, China, by now would have gone out of its way to prove that it was.  Since China has done everything possible to obfuscate, deter and change the subject when mentioned of its origin only one conclusion can be made. 

So until proven otherwise, I conclude it was man made in the Wuhan Lab and got loose somehow.

Feel free to prove otherwise.  I will listen with an open mind.
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Nov 30, 2021 - 12:34pm

 kurtster wrote:

Mengele used the pursuit science as the justification for his experiments.

Fauci claims to be science.  'nuff said.

Fauci was directly involved in the enhancement of function of the CV.  It is his monster that we are dealing with today.  

At least with Mengele there was evidently real useful knowledge about humans gained from his experiments although we are prohibited from using any of it.  With Fauci, we have gained nothing except a total upheaval of society and countless deaths.


Fauci headed a dept that approved that type of research...you can call it GOF, others say no...regardless, it was authorized according to our regs. 
I'm not smart enough to understand the benefits of GOF,  but I will bet there are plenty of good reasons to consider GOF. 
Of course you are jumping to the conclusion this was a lab leak, and not natural....good luck with that.
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