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oldviolin

oldviolin Avatar

Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: May 17, 2016 - 9:29pm

 kcar wrote:.

The Government Accountability Office estimated in 2009 that it costs an average of $3.9 million to build one mile of fence, although it could go as high as $15.1 million.

 

Ironic case of misnomer. Sorry, no disrespect to you intended. I'm just not a fan of futility in general.
ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male


Posted: May 17, 2016 - 9:20pm

 kcar wrote:

The Government Accountability Office estimated in 2009 that it costs an average of $3.9 million to build one mile of fence, although it could go as high as $15.1 million.

 
I think the GAO is confused. That's as much as building a mile of highway. Maybe they're going to pave the service road that'll have to run all along it.
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 17, 2016 - 8:03pm

Since we're just cutting and pasting here at this point, I thought you all might be interested in this politico.com article: 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trumps-policy-problems-223092

Donald Trump’s policy problems


POLITICO deployed its policy experts to study a week’s worth of Trump commentary and decipher what he’s saying, how his ideas would work and how far he could really go with positions that are unorthodox at best, and often heretical to his party’s ideology.

...

But there’s also a tougher takeaway on Trump’s policies: Many of his proposals are either unrealistic in terms of executive power or would run into a brick wall with Congress, making a Trump administration borderline impotent on the very issues that are driving his supporters to the polls.


(excerpt about The Wall, since we've been talking about it here):

THE WALL

What did Trump say? “Believe me 100 percent, we’re building this wall. … Who is going to pay for the wall? Mexico! Not even close, folks. A trade deficit with Mexico, $58 billion. The wall’s gonna cost $10 billion. Are there any bad business people here? … It’s gonna be beautiful ‘cause they’ll call it Trump someday maybe. Nah, I don’t want a wall with my name.” (May 1, Terre Haute, Indiana)

 

What’s he really talking about? Building the wall is Trump’s bumper sticker slogan. Trump has vowed to deport all 11 million immigrants here illegally, while letting the “good ones” back in. He’d turbocharge border security by erecting a wall along the 1,989-mile U.S.-Mexico boundary.

Where does his view come from? Building a fence along the southern border has long been one plank of overhauling the immigration system. About 670 miles of fencing is already up there (about 350 miles are in pedestrian areas) and a 2013 comprehensive reform plan introduced by a bipartisan group of eight senators called for 350 more miles of similar fencing.

What does he want to do? Trump’s six-page immigration platform released last August suggests building a wall, and making Mexico pay for it. He plans to force Mexico’s hand by blocking all of the remittances earned by immigrants working here illegally sent from the United States back home until the Mexican government hands over the money. He’d also boost fees for visas for Mexican nationals and may even deny issuing them altogether.

How far can Trump go? Not very far. One thing Trump can do unilaterally is to hike fees for visas, which can be done through agency regulations, as long as proposed rules are publicized. But the wall itself would have to be approved by Congress, just as lawmakers in the past have signed off on smaller-scale fences.

Who won’t like this? Mexico, obviously. The current president, Enrique Peña Nieto, has flatly said there is “no scenario” under which his country would cough up the money for Trump’s border wall. Advocates and lawmakers who have long pushed immigration reform would decry Trump’s security-only approach.

How would a divided Congress react? Democrats would reject it outright since it’s a security-only method that doesn’t come attached with a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants in the United States. Among Republicans, Arizona Sen. Jeff Flake, a longtime proponent of immigration reform, has pointed to Trump’s ideas including the wall and another proposal to ban Muslim immigrants from the United States as reasons why he can’t see himself backing the presumptive GOP nominee. Trump’s plan, however, is likely to gain traction with key conservatives including Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) and Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa).

How much would it cost? Trump insists that his wall will cost $10 billion (and nothing for the U.S. taxpayer, since Mexico would surely pay for it). That seems remarkably optimistic on Trump’s part. A POLITICO analysis last summer found that finishing the existing U.S.-Mexico fence cost $5.1 billion at a bare minimum, but likely much more. That’s because the remaining 1,300 miles that haven’t yet been fenced off are in considerably more difficult terrain. The Government Accountability Office estimated in 2009 that it costs an average of $3.9 million to build one mile of fence, although it could go as high as $15.1 million.





kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 17, 2016 - 7:56pm

 rotekz wrote:

Correct. Ask Taleb if you are interested in his choice of words. 

 
Why not write your own thoughts, as you've done before?
rotekz

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Posted: May 17, 2016 - 3:34am

Donald J. Trump to San Francisco: Sanctuary Cities ‘Unacceptable,’ A ‘Disaster’ Creating ‘Safe-Haven for Criminals’




George Soros trying to break up the U.S.


rotekz

rotekz Avatar



Posted: May 16, 2016 - 11:44pm

 R_P wrote: 
Gotta love this one from the other day {#Mrgreen}:

Trump Sits Down Beside Fire With Quill And Ink For Evening Writing Out Tweets



rotekz

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Posted: May 16, 2016 - 11:40pm

 kcar wrote:

I realize you're just parroting Taleb, 

 
Correct. Ask Taleb if you are interested in his choice of words. 
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: May 16, 2016 - 11:35pm

That Time Donald Trump Threatened to Sue The Onion Over ‘Defamatory’ Story
kcar

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Posted: May 16, 2016 - 9:45pm

 rotekz wrote:


 
I realize you're just parroting Taleb, but I have to ask him or you: how is this rigorous? And more rigorous than what, for the love of God? 
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: May 16, 2016 - 7:49pm

With Adelson ready to invest in Trump, who's the 'puppet' now?{#Money-mouth}
Now that Donald Trump has abandoned months of boasts about “self-funding,” he’s going to need some Republican mega-donors to help finance the Republican’s general-election campaign. The New York Times reports that one especially notable contributor is already eager to play a role.
The casino magnate Sheldon G. Adelson told Donald J. Trump in a private meeting last week that he was willing to contribute more to help elect him than he has to any previous campaign, a sum that could exceed $100 million, according to two Republicans with direct knowledge of Mr. Adelson’s commitment.
 
As significant, Mr. Adelson, a billionaire based in Las Vegas, has decided that he will significantly scale back his giving to congressional Republicans and direct most of his contributions to groups dedicated to Mr. Trump’s campaign.
The article noted that it’s unclear exactly how Adelson will make his investment, and the casino magnate and his team “are still uncertain about which super PAC to use as their vehicle for the bulk of the contributions.”
 
That said, Trump and Adelson met last week; the candidate said he’s “dedicated to protecting Israel’s security,” and Adelson agreed soon after to spent as much as $100 million to make the former reality-show host the president of the United States.
 
The punch-line, however, is something Trump said on Twitter in October: “Sheldon Adelson is looking to give big dollars to (Sen. Marco Rubio) because he feels he can mold him into his perfect little puppet.”
 
At the time, the Florida senator was receiving quite a bit of support from GOP mega-donors, and Adelson appeared to be on board with Team Rubio – a dynamic Trump was eager to mock. Indeed, the idea that the senator was part of a corrupt system in which wealthy interests buy candidates in order to make them “puppets” was at the heart of Trump’s message.
 
The key word in that sentence, however, is “was.”
 
As we discussed last week, Trump assured voters for months that he’s “self-funding” his campaign, and it was a powerful selling point. He insisted campaign contributions have a corrupting effect on public officials – Trump said he knew it because he was among the wealthy donors doing the buying – but he’s above all of this ugliness because he relies solely on his own checkbook. Americans wouldn’t have to worry about fat-cat donors telling Trump what to do because he doesn’t want – and doesn’t take – their money.
 
And yet, there was Trump telling Sheldon Adelson what he wanted to hear during a private discussion last week, which was followed soon after by the donor’s decision to be quite generous towards the presumptive Republican nominee.
 
Months of rhetoric about the corrupting influence of campaign contributions has been wiped away with amazing efficiency, and in the process, arguably the most compelling pillar of Trump’s entire candidacy has been removed.

rotekz

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Posted: May 16, 2016 - 2:20pm

 


rotekz

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Posted: May 16, 2016 - 2:13pm




R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: May 16, 2016 - 12:17am

 kurtster wrote:
And who let them in ?  They got here across the Bering Land Bridge from Asia.
 
Who do you think let them in? {#Confused}
BlueHeronDruid

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Location: Заебани сме луѓе


Posted: May 15, 2016 - 11:53pm

 kurtster wrote:

The place you want to move to says no one under 55 and you're 45.  The place says no pets and you have pets.  What do you do ? 

Different states have different laws.  Want to smoke cannabis without repercussions ?  Can't do it everywhere.  Its about making choices.  Gotta find the place that sees what is important to you the same way and move there, if you are able to, if you are able to find that ideal place.

Change is inevitable.  But I have found that change that happens overnight without planning and consideration is neither good nor lasting.  Change needs to be done carefully.  I am sick and tired of hearing about unintended consequences from piss poor planning. 
 
i read the road signs and understand them. I don't tilt at windmills for the sport of it. I choose wisely, either with my dollars or with my feet.

Then be part of the solution. Be the care you want in the change around you. We find our comfort zones or we don't. If we don't, we adapt or keep moving. If we do, we put down roots and make things better. Bring in our comforts, music, foods, beliefs.

You can choose to stand your ground and fight for the beachfront you have. But the tides will eventually move that beachfront and no matter what you do, water will win.


muzik

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Location: Montana
Gender: Female


Posted: May 15, 2016 - 11:05pm

 BlueHeronDruid wrote:

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Also, for people with working brains.

 
{#Roflol}
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: May 15, 2016 - 10:11pm

 BlueHeronDruid wrote:
 kurtster wrote:

You may come in through the front door, but eff those who break in through the side window.  Come here for what we already are, not to change us.  We do not need people who think that anyplace is better than where they are presently.  Find another place.  Its as simple as that.
 

It's not that simple. It really isn't.

We live in a gated community. (For the record, gate is open 6a to 6p weekdays, closed weekends.) It's not what we were looking for, but what we fell in love with, and what we could afford. The gate doesn't do much for me (as you know, I have some fierce-sounding dogs) though I appreciate the element it keeps off our private beach. Yes, I've seen drug deals go down there. Yes, I've encountered someone smoking meth. It happens. Our beach is a private and attractive nuisance, and getting in the gate is as easy as drafting the car in front of you.

But as the demographics change here (younger people moving in, raising children, as opposed to the founding "vacation home" retirees) so do the HOA R&Rs. I think that someday we'll be allowed to have chickens. Discreet fences around the food we would like to grow for ourselves and not the black-tailed deer.

Change can be good but ultimately is inevitable. Every legal immigrant, every coming-of-age citizen, is poised to bring change. We can either embrace it and shepherd it, or fear it and try to kill it. I vote the former. It isn't always happiness and light. But it is the way of the world. Find me a place where that hasn't happened.

 
The place you want to move to says no one under 55 and you're 45.  The place says no pets and you have pets.  What do you do ? 

Different states have different laws.  Want to smoke cannabis without repercussions ?  Can't do it everywhere.  Its about making choices.  Gotta find the place that sees what is important to you the same way and move there, if you are able to, if you are able to find that ideal place.

Change is inevitable.  But I have found that change that happens overnight without planning and consideration is neither good nor lasting.  Change needs to be done carefully.  I am sick and tired of hearing about unintended consequences from piss poor planning. 


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: May 15, 2016 - 9:51pm

 aflanigan wrote:

This argument strikes me as a typical example of the tired "raise the bridge to keep undesirables off the island now that we're here" hypocrisy. Why should having your genes circulating around the gene pool in a country your forebears invaded without invitation for a set number of years/decades/centuries entitle you to exemption from the standard you're trying to apply to others?



 

 
And who let them in ?  They got here across the Bering Land Bridge from Asia.
kurtster

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Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: May 15, 2016 - 9:48pm

 kcar wrote:

I can understand your point of view, I think. I don't think the illegal immigrants themselves are complaining about this issue as much as the American citizens who feel threatened job-wise are. 

This issue shouldn't have turned into a major one. We should have looked at federal policy during prosperous times, when immigration was peaking, and updated it. I told my parents years ago that people wouldn't complain about illegal immigrants until the economy went south.

I think that there should be a path to citizenship for those already here and contributing to society. As far as I can tell, most of the illegal immigrants here want to assimilate into American society and aren't keen to hive off into a re-creation of their past worlds. The notion that shariah law is spreading through the Midwest is hysterically goofy. 

It'd be nice if Trump offered some real ideas about illegal immigration but he just wants to bluster like some drunk at the bar about The Wall. {#Rolleyes} 

 
People have complaining about it all my life and I'm in my 60's.  But I come from a border state.  Cesar Chavez was all about protecting American farm workers from illegals.  The California Table Grape Boycott is the reference to this.  This is what I grew up with.

This is not something new.   People who don't live in border states don't know WTF is and has been going on for decades.  They are just now beginning to find out.

There is no point in even talking about fixing what is wrong until the borders are secured.  There are enough laws on the books already.  Fix the border, then the conversation can begin on what to do with those who are already here.  In the meantime, let's use the laws we already have for a change.  No we cannot deport everyone.  But until we have a viable border, how can we talk about who stays ?  Its meaningless.

I have no problem with growth and change, but it has to be planned for and orderly so as not to cause pain to those already here. 
aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: May 15, 2016 - 9:39pm

 kurtster wrote:
  My family arrived in Maine in 1640, 136 years before the revolution.  Is that long enough to say my family is from America and not somewhere else ?  
 
This argument strikes me as a typical example of the tired "raise the bridge to keep undesirables off the island now that we're here" hypocrisy. Why should having your genes circulating around the gene pool in a country your forebears invaded without invitation for a set number of years/decades/centuries entitle you to exemption from the standard you're trying to apply to others?



 
kcar

kcar Avatar



Posted: May 15, 2016 - 9:24pm

 kurtster wrote:

I can only speak for myself on this one.  I give a rat's ass about what this country is and what it means.  My family arrived in Maine in 1640, 136 years before the revolution.  Is that long enough to say my family is from America and not somewhere else ?  I'm not angry with the illegals per se, except for their bitching and complaining about how they are treated.  Trespassers bitching, really ?   Who I am angry with are those who let them in.  Those who refuse to enforce the laws and protect our borders.

You may come in through the front door, but eff those who break in through the side window.  Come here for what we already are, not to change us.  We do not need people who think that anyplace is better than where they are presently.  Find another place.  Its as simple as that.

 
I can understand your point of view, I think. I don't think the illegal immigrants themselves are complaining about this issue as much as the American citizens who feel threatened job-wise are. 

This issue shouldn't have turned into a major one. We should have looked at federal policy during prosperous times, when immigration was peaking, and updated it. I told my parents years ago that people wouldn't complain about illegal immigrants until the economy went south.

I think that there should be a path to citizenship for those already here and contributing to society. As far as I can tell, most of the illegal immigrants here want to assimilate into American society and aren't keen to hive off into a re-creation of their past worlds. The notion that shariah law is spreading through the Midwest is hysterically goofy. 

It'd be nice if Trump offered some real ideas about illegal immigration but he just wants to bluster like some drunk at the bar about The Wall. {#Rolleyes} 
BlueHeronDruid wrote:
Change can be good but ultimately is inevitable. Every legal immigrant, every coming-of-age citizen, is poised to bring change. 
  
True. America has gone through waves, large and small, of immigration. The social and cultural fabric of this country is constantly changing and we've regularly gone through periods of anti-immigrant sentiment. Signs reading "Irish need not apply" seem quaint now, but they were deadly serious in their time. 


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