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steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 12:57pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

Grief, where on earth do you source your information from?  Russia is a backwards struggling agrarian economy whose industry cannot cut it on the world stage and never could, with the exception perhaps of the Kalashnikov.. Check out how much European hardware is installed in your US military. You might be surprised to find out how much of it is French. If Russia lost its oil and gas export market to Europe it would collapse within months. 

But all of this military braggado is really really stale. We live in a global world. None of us can turn the clock back. Business needs globalisation. Pretending otherwise is sticking your head in the sand.  No one, not even Putin or the Chinese can escape the cruel dictates of the international marketplace. The biggest army in the world won't help you there.  

 
{#Drummer}  The birth of the Ostrich Party!?!? 
steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 12:49pm

 kurtster wrote:
Just saw this graphic on FBN

The number of POTUS meetings with business leaders ...

Bush  6

Obama  18

Trump  11 ... in his first 34 days.

I guess that's what happens when you get a POTUS who knows that right tighty and lefty loosey has nothing to do with politics ...

Say what you want, he ain't sittin around working on his NCAA brackets pics and endlessly playing golf.

Might have something to do with the markets up average 10% since the election.  Naw, couldn't be. 

 
When he meets with business leaders, what policy is being implemented? 

Governing is about setting policies that impact favorably across-the-board.  Meeting with, and or calling, business leaders is fine, if it leads to policies that prove fruitful.  Making individual "deals" with individual  businesses falls short.

     


NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 12:47pm

 kurtster wrote:

The US built up its armed forces for one purpose initially, to fight WW II.  It kept growing to protect itself and primarily Europe (the standing army part) from the USSR during the Cold War.  Europe was and still is incapable of defending itself from Russia, should there ever be a need.

Let's remember how the USA got involved in Libya most recently.  We were dragged in by the French mostly and the rest of the EU, because we alone possessed the necessary military capabilities needed to invade Libya, to keep that sweet Libyan crude flowing to the EU, who were the only users of that particular flavor of crude.  It didn't help that Obama and Clinton were more than willing to help with their regime change agenda in that area of the world.  An agenda which has made the world a much worse thing than before.  

 
Grief, where on earth do you source your information from?  Russia is a backwards struggling agrarian economy whose industry cannot cut it on the world stage and never could, with the exception perhaps of the Kalashnikov.. Check out how much European hardware is installed in your US military. You might be surprised to find out how much of it is French. If Russia lost its oil and gas export market to Europe it would collapse within months. 

But all of this military braggado is really really stale. We live in a global world. None of us can turn the clock back. Business needs globalisation. Pretending otherwise is sticking your head in the sand.  No one, not even Putin or the Chinese can escape the cruel dictates of the international marketplace. The biggest army in the world won't help you there.  


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 12:27pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

Kurtster, you are only confirming to me that what you actually believe in ("greatest set of rules for governing ever written") is right on the money, but you seem blind to the fact that Trump is the biggest threat to precisely what you want to protect. And where does this American exceptionalism come from? American values were born in the EUROPEAN enlightenment. They are not the sole domain of the US. Virtually all western states and a whole lot of other ones besides espouse exactly the same values:

Freedom of speech, right to a fair trial, equality before the law, a set of recognised human rights, democratic government with checks and balances, etc. all the goodies I think you support. 

As far as Europe's safety and prosperity being built on the back of the US taxpayer, that is not exactly right either. Both the UK and France have their own nuclear deterrent that is not and never has been paid by the US taxpayer. The US maintains a gigantic military but nobody ever asked it to. And the sheer size of it is overkill given the threats facing the rest of the world. So you can't blame this on the other members of NATO. Secondly, the US has had a lot of support from allies for ventures that are at best questionable and many a non-US solider has been killed in action for campaigns initiated by the US. 
It is not a one-way street and never has been.

 
The US built up its armed forces for one purpose initially, to fight WW II.  It kept growing to protect itself and primarily Europe (the standing army part) from the USSR during the Cold War.  Europe was and still is incapable of defending itself from Russia, should there ever be a need.

Let's remember how the USA got involved in Libya most recently.  We were dragged in by the French mostly and the rest of the EU, because we alone possessed the necessary military capabilities needed to invade Libya, to keep that sweet Libyan crude flowing to the EU, who were the only users of that particular flavor of crude.  It didn't help that Obama and Clinton were more than willing to help with their regime change agenda in that area of the world.  An agenda which has made the world a much worse thing than before.  

And not overkill when we consider what's happening in the South China Sea.  I suppose Europe assumes its the USA's problem and not it's own and should not worry about it cuz the USA will take care of it at its own expense.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 12:00pm

 kurtster wrote:

All this talk about tribalism.  I mean wtf, really.  Is there something wrong with wanting to preserve a society based in principle on the greatest set of rules for governing ever written ?

It exists no where else on this planet. WRONG  Why does everyone want to tear it apart ? I believe it is only Trump who wants to tear it apart.   It is clear that the USA is at odds with nearly every other country on this planet. ABSOLUTELY WRONG The USA has so over extended itself in the world that unless it regroups and recalculates it will surely fade away and all the worthy principles it was founded on will die with it. AGAIN WRONG

Take NATO, its been made clear that Trump finds it worthy, but only if everyone else ponies up what they agreed to upon joining.  Europe's safety and prosperity has been built on the back of the American taxpayer since WW II, which we did not start.  

Its time to stop the looting of the USA by the ungrateful.  If that constitutes tribalism, then so be it. 

 
Kurtster, you are only confirming to me that what you actually believe in ("greatest set of rules for governing ever written") is right on the money, but you seem blind to the fact that Trump is the biggest threat to precisely what you want to protect. And where does this American exceptionalism come from? American values were born in the EUROPEAN enlightenment. They are not the sole domain of the US. Virtually all western states and a whole lot of other ones besides espouse exactly the same values:

Freedom of speech, right to a fair trial, equality before the law, a set of recognised human rights, democratic government with checks and balances, etc. all the goodies I think you support. 

As far as Europe's safety and prosperity being built on the back of the US taxpayer, that is not exactly right either. Both the UK and France have their own nuclear deterrent that is not and never has been paid by the US taxpayer. The US maintains a gigantic military but nobody ever asked it to. And the sheer size of it is overkill given the threats facing the rest of the world. So you can't blame this on the other members of NATO. Secondly, the US has had a lot of support from allies for ventures that are at best questionable and many a non-US solider has been killed in action for campaigns initiated by the US. 
It is not a one-way street and never has been.


aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 11:51am

 kurtster wrote:


Say what you want, he ain't sittin around working on his NCAA brackets pics and endlessly playing golf.

 
There's what you say, and then there's reality.

How Trump spent his first month in Office, by the numbers 
As Navy seal William Owens was fighting for his life, Trump was promoting himself on Twitter, absent from situation room
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 11:36am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
in fact that is precisely what I mean..  Trump fails on your benchmarks.

Trump and more particularly Bannon are socialists in YOUR sense of the word and give a shit about individual rights. Everything they espouse is an archaic tribalism that belongs back in the dark ages. It's an either with us or against us attitude in which the individual in any meaningful sense of the word has no place.

 
All this talk about tribalism.  I mean wtf, really.  Is there something wrong with wanting to preserve a society based in principle on the greatest set of rules for governing ever written ?

It exists no where else on this planet.  Why does everyone want to tear it apart ?   It is clear that the USA is at odds with nearly every other country on this planet.  The USA has so over extended itself in the world that unless it regroups and recalculates it will surely fade away and all the worthy principles it was founded on will die with it.

Take NATO, its been made clear that Trump finds it worthy, but only if everyone else ponies up what they agreed to upon joining.  Europe's safety and prosperity has been built on the back of the American taxpayer since WW II, which we did not start.  

Its time to stop the looting of the USA by the ungrateful.  If that constitutes tribalism, then so be it. 

Globalism is good for everyone, except the USA as it is presently conceived.  The NWO is not a CT.
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 11:26am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

huh?  You think I'm a socialist?  I thought that was Bannon.

 
No.  Just taking a shot at a line is all, with all the rhetoric in play.

I do however see the EU as a socialist entity.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 11:20am

in fact that is precisely what I mean..  Trump fails on your benchmarks.

Trump and more particularly Bannon are socialists in YOUR sense of the word and give a shit about individual rights. Everything they espouse is an archaic tribalism that belongs back in the dark ages. It's an either with us or against us attitude in which the individual in any meaningful sense of the word has no place.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 11:15am

 kurtster wrote:

Isn't putting the individual first against all the tenets of socialism ?  Sorry, couldn't pass that up ...

Yes, we do live in interesting times. 

 
huh?  You think I'm a socialist?  I thought that was Bannon.


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 11:11am

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:

keep gloating Kurtster. I still think Trump is going to fail even using YOUR benchmark of success, but hey, I may be wrong. I hope he does create some economic stimulus and give the economy  a boost. I just hope it is not at huge opportunity cost (environmental damage etc.)

On my benchmarks, he has already failed appallingly: no consistency, no respect for the value of the individual, let alone their rights, no respect for the gains won by the environmental movement, virtually no accountability and he tops off all of this with being a pathological liar.  It would require a huge sea change for me to change that assessment of him. But I still wait patiently - I bet the Republicans are just waiting for him to cock up big time and then they'll install Pence, which will be a mistake because his fanbase will feel robbed and feel his policies didn't have a  chance to be properly tested.

Whatever. We live in interesting times.

 

 
Isn't putting the individual first against all the tenets of socialism ?  Sorry, couldn't pass that up ...

Yes, we do live in interesting times. 
NoEnzLefttoSplit

NoEnzLefttoSplit Avatar

Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 11:00am

 kurtster wrote:
Just saw this graphic on FBN

The number of POTUS meetings with business leaders ...

Bush  6

Obama  18

Trump  11 ... in his first 34 days.

I guess that's what happens when you get a POTUS who knows that right tighty and lefty loosey has nothing to do with politics ...

Say what you want, he ain't sittin around working on his NCAA brackets pics and endlessly playing golf.

Might have something to do with the markets up average 10% since the election.  Naw, couldn't be. 

 
keep gloating Kurtster. I still think Trump is going to fail even using YOUR benchmark of success, but hey, I may be wrong. I hope he does create some economic stimulus and give the economy  a boost. I just hope it is not at huge opportunity cost (environmental damage etc.)

On my benchmarks, he has already failed appallingly: no consistency, no respect for the value of the individual, let alone their rights, no respect for the gains won by the environmental movement, virtually no accountability and he tops off all of this with being a pathological liar.  It would require a huge sea change for me to change that assessment of him. But I still wait patiently - I bet the Republicans are just waiting for him to cock up big time and then they'll install Pence, which will be a mistake because his fanbase will feel robbed and feel his policies didn't have a  chance to be properly tested.

Whatever. We live in interesting times.

 
kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 10:59am

 meower wrote:

..... or the fact that he is a businessman and it is in his business interest to meet with business leaders

 
I still like to think its in our interest.

Howze everyones' 401K's doing ?  Any complaints ? 
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 10:55am

A majority of Americans are embarrassed by President Trump

Oh, I forgot - all negative polls are fake news. 
meower

meower Avatar

Location: i believe, i believe, it's silly, but I believe
Gender: Female


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 10:52am

 kurtster wrote:
Just saw this graphic on FBN

The number of POTUS meetings with business leaders ...

Bush  6

Obama  18

Trump  11 ... in his first 34 days.

I guess that's what happens when you get a POTUS who knows that right tighty and lefty loosey has nothing to do with politics ...

Say what you want, he ain't sittin around working on his NCAA brackets pics and endlessly playing golf.

Might have something to do with the markets up average 10% since the election.  Naw, couldn't be. 

 
..... or the fact that he is a businessman and it is in his business interest to meet with business leaders


kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 23, 2017 - 10:47am

Just saw this graphic on FBN

The number of POTUS meetings with business leaders ...

Bush  6

Obama  18

Trump  11 ... in his first 34 days.

I guess that's what happens when you get a POTUS who knows that right tighty and lefty loosey has nothing to do with politics ...

Say what you want, he ain't sittin around working on his NCAA brackets pics and endlessly playing golf.

Might have something to do with the markets up average 10% since the election.  Naw, couldn't be. 
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 22, 2017 - 3:42pm


haresfur

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Location: The Golden Triangle
Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2017 - 2:03pm

 ScottFromWyoming wrote:

The thing to remember is that gerrymandering is illegal. Wyoming's house districts were redrawn by court order a few times before the supreme court said "good enough." What they needed to do was levy some sort of penalty on the actual individuals responsible. Proving gerrymandering has been rare, but it happens.

 
Rather than sending it back to the state to try again the Court should take over the process. I guess we will just have to do it for you, you sleezeballs.
Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan


Posted: Feb 22, 2017 - 1:34pm

 NoEnzLefttoSplit wrote:
if Trump sources his news from Breitbart, inforwars and Fox news, then I guess the Onion is absolutely on a par.

 
ayup.
NoEnzLefttoSplit

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Gender: Male


Posted: Feb 22, 2017 - 1:05pm

if Trump sources his news from Breitbart, inforwars and Fox news, then I guess the Onion is absolutely on a par.
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