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islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 10:22am

Lazy8 wrote:

islander wrote:

I am not re-litigating the election. He won, absolutely and he gets the spoils that go with that. But there were a number of 'promises' of a pivot and a presidential presentation once he took the seat. That hasn't happened and no one that was making that claim (however far fetched) seems to care or to remember.

I'm too old to be drafted, too diversified (or divested) to be majorly impacted by markets, I have a lot of options for most of the non-nuclear scenarios. It's mostly just a big popcorn bag and a seat on the sidelines for me. I do feel bad for our nation though. Sure it's been a long slow decline, but I was hoping for a British or Italian style transition into post world leader status. One where we casually step back into a more relaxed pace and say "yeah, been there done that". Instead we seem to be in the mode of "screw everyone, if we can't have it, we'll release the zombie virus". And that's just not the casual retirement with palm trees and sand that I had in mind.

Not in your tax bracket and I still have skin (and descendants) in the game, but why is this particular incident—which (so far) doesn't even involve MAGAmmenon—so important? There are real policy issues to bring up, fight over, convince people of. This is a huge distraction and it plays in Trumps favor.

Look how the last impeachment attempt went. Not only was the president not removed from office (tho he had clearly broken an actual law) it cost the attacking party most of its leadership in both houses. Not just out of control of Congress, out of Congress.

Trump's base is more convinced than ever that the media and the opposition they are allied with are unscrupulously out to get their guy. That opposition is burning its credibility by stoking outrage about every trivial detail surrounding the election. When it all plays out and all the puffed-up punditry is done the public will be exhausted and Trump's base will feel vindicated> And the outrages—real outrages—will pass by unremarked. And they probably already are.

I'm not calling for impeachment - I'm in the Pence is probably worse camp. I am calling for people to not just go "hey, it's Trump, what did you expect...Whatever ". Outside of waiting a full 60 days longer that Hilary would have (speculative) to bomb another country, I think it's fair to say that he's objectively worse your descendants and cancerous to your remaining skin in the game (to be clear, I'm still playing, I just have some flexibility between rugby and poker).

This is the time that Libertarians, Greens, Democrats, and patriotic Republicans (actually, that should be patriotic ahead of all those groups) to stand up and say "okay, this is what break the system looks like. We have a better way - here is a reasonable set of compromises that we can all move forward with".

I get it, Trumps people are pissed and they want something. But if this is what they really want then it's time for adults and people with skin/descendents to call out the outrages and the stupid distractions alike. There needs to be pressure applied from somewhere, or we are just accepting and will get more of this.

Lazy8

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 10:03am

islander wrote:

Lazy8

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 9:36am

aflanigan wrote:

The long question is, are we talking about treason as explicitly defined in the Constitution, or treason as defined in the dictionary, which is "the action of betraying someone or something (i.e. a country)"?

In the first case, "No" is the correct answer. Note however that Politico found four potentially applicable statutes under which such collusion would be potentially actionable.

Treason implies betrayal. Who was Junior betraying? He was doing oppo on his father's opponent.This happens with every campaign in every election. Why is it important that the person offering dirt was foreign?

That media pundits can find an interpretation of federal law to charge Junior with a crime isn't surprising. With enough research and squinting both of us could probably be charged with felonies while we're sitting here arguing on the internet. Would that lead to prosecution (of Junior—you and I haven't pissed off anyone powerful enough to become targets of that sort of witch hunt) (that I know of; don't know what's in your other browser windows) under the standards James Comey set for prosecuting Hillary Clinton?

islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 9:22am

black321 wrote:

Maybe their point is (and im not speaking for myself), was it really any better under the prior admins? As you note, we messed in their election..Obama knew they were messing in ours. The games behind the curtain continued. So trump's biggest sin is, he's not playing by the rules (if we assume he is lucid and competent in some manner)? He talked to Vlad, said fine, lets negotiate anyway...he's opening the curtain, which maybe some like?

But the biggest issue i have with him is his volatility, and the volatility he adds to the system. To your point, think what you will of Obama, but he kept things stable. We cant say the same for Trump (or whether he himself is stable). And given the house of cards we've built (heavy debt, nation building that has bit us back...), to which he is offering zero in the way of solutions, can any of us afford a heavy wind? And then of course there are the conflicts with his business interests, nepotism...

I'm really trying to see it through that lens. But it just feels like more of the same hypocrisy that drove me away from both major parties. Anyone who freaked out over Obama's "I'll have more room after the election" comment to Vlad, should be head explodingly frothy over the current events, yet no... they are getting the benefit now, so they will look the other way.

Government can work, it has for centuries. Sure there are flaws, but it has been better than anarchy and civil war. Unfortunately, I see us moving to a point where we need anarchy and civil war to remind us that the flawed republic we have isn't so bad after all.

islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 9:17am

Lazy8 wrote:

islander wrote:

I have no doubt that the distance between normal and the line the Republicans in congress are willing to tolerate is measured in light years. But I still have to wonder about the general populace. Seriously, this is everything he was billed as. This is pretty much what I expected from him - boorishness, corruption, nepotism, complete disregard for any standards, actions with no purpose except to flaunt an antagonize... This is what he has always been. Aren't people getting tired of this? how far down does our global standing have to go? Will it take a wall street implosion and a real financial crisis to shake the faith? Are we there yet - is money all that matters?

He is exactly the swine people knew they were voting for. By the election his character and talents were clear. And enough people voted for him to put him in office.

The election is over. This corrupt, dishonest oligarch beat the other one. Endlessly re-litigating the election isn't convincing anyone of anything they don't already believe.

Lazy8

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 9:03am

islander wrote:

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 9:00am

islander wrote:

The thing is he's had a chance. Where is "the pivot"? Where is "presidential"? These aren't even mentioned anymore. I never really had any hope they would materialize, but they were necessary if we were ever to have a functioning presidency. Say what you want about Obama, but the country did well under his watch. Beyond the financials which are holding up, how is our country doing? Kurtser is getting his wish to see it all burn down, but is anyone else sincerely happy with the state of affairs? Does it really not bother people that collusion and big headlines aside, a foreign hostile government interfered with our elections (yes, it was retributions for us mucking in theirs, but it shows that they were pissed about it and did something).

Wall St. is still on a tear, and the housing market seems all boomy, but I've started moving to defensive positions because all the signals are there for a problem. I'll continue to be fine, but I'm sad to see our country in this state. Maybe I'm just confused as to what a patriot really is.

islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 7:18am

black321 wrote:

some folks, and good folks, still believe this is all overblown conjecture by the media/liberals (and a lot of it is...but they seem oblivious as to the source of the material?) and we should still give him a chance...

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 7:00am
black321 wrote: some folks, and good folks, still believe this is all overblown conjecture by the media/liberals (and a lot of it is...but they seem oblivious as to the source of the material?) and we should still give him a chance...

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 6:51am

islander wrote:

islander

islander Avatar

Location: West coast somewhere
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 6:44am

Lazy8 wrote:

The long answer is "Do you even know what the word 'treason' means?"

Could Donald Trump Jr. Be Charged With Treason? Short Answer: No

The headlines get more breathless by the moment. "Explosive new charges!" "A bombshell!"

Was it a crime for Donald Trump Jr. to meet with a Russian government-connected lawyer who promised dirt on Hillary Clinton for use in the presidential campaign? Was it worse than a crime? Was it treason?

The latest Russian caper — this one involving the president's son, then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and the president's son-in-law Jared Kushner — has Washington (pardon the pun) atwitter.

In terms of what is now being investigated, "we are now beyond obstruction of justice," Sen. Tim Kaine, Clinton's running mate, said Tuesday. "This is moving into perjury, false statements and even potentially treason."

black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 6:42am

Lazy8 wrote:

The long answer is "Do you even know what the word 'treason' means?"

Could Donald Trump Jr. Be Charged With Treason? Short Answer: No

The headlines get more breathless by the moment. "Explosive new charges!" "A bombshell!"

Treason or impeachment? No. But clearly more rot from the core of a wormy apple.

aflanigan

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Location: At Sea
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 6:20am

Lazy8 wrote:

The long answer is "Do you even know what the word 'treason' means?"

Could Donald Trump Jr. Be Charged With Treason? Short Answer: No

Gender:

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 6:12am
The WH is still trying to convince everyone that this wasn't collusion. Come on. Admittedly nothing came of it but, last I checked, the police don't look the other way or treat "attempted" bank robberies less than they do successful ones. Intent is still there.

Proclivities

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Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 5:05am
Lazy8 wrote: The long answer is "Do you even know what the word 'treason' means?" Could Donald Trump Jr. Be Charged With Treason? Short Answer: No Certainly not by how treason is defined in The Constitution.

R_P

Gender:

Posted: Jul 12, 2017 - 8:49pm
Trump: Putin would prefer Clinton to me - BBC News President Donald J. Trump tells the Christian Broadcasting Network, "If Hillary (Clinton) had won our military would be decimated ... that's what Putin doesn't like about me."

Lazy8

Location: The Gallatin Valley of Montana
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 12, 2017 - 7:20pm

The long answer is "Do you even know what the word 'treason' means?"

Could Donald Trump Jr. Be Charged With Treason? Short Answer: No

The headlines get more breathless by the moment. "Explosive new charges!" "A bombshell!"

R_P

Gender:

Posted: Jul 12, 2017 - 12:10pm
Julian Assange: I told Donald Trump Jr. to release his emails with WikiLeaks

Red_Dragon

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Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Jul 12, 2017 - 9:43am
One of Trump’s biggest promises just took another hit

cc_rider

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Location: Bastrop
Gender: Male

Posted: Jul 12, 2017 - 8:59am
Proclivities wrote: kcar wrote: What is a "white-collar lawyer" or "white-collar attorney"? Is that like a religious priest or a sudden explosion? I'm always a little dubious when an article contains several paragraphs of "quotes" from an anonymous source, but this stuff should see more light soon. Yeah, such poor writing undermines the credibility of the whole thing.

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