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ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 3, 2018 - 7:11am

kurtster wrote:

Just being there was enough to piss people off to the point of rioting. What happened to tolerance ?

Is there no one in the US whose public appearance in your town wouldn't cause you to picket? If you say no, I don't believe it.

{{don't make me regret deleting the rest of this post}}

They're trolls and you know it. You also know how hard it can be to not feed the trolls, if you feel strongly enough.

Proclivities

Proclivities Avatar

Location: Paris of the Piedmont
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 3, 2018 - 6:48am

kurtster wrote:

And there lies the problem. Just speaking about ideas that may be regionally unpopular is now considered trolling. I hope that made sense. There is or used to be a distinction between an organized public speaking engagement and taking it to the streets and stirring up a mob. Coulter and Milo were invited to speak by a recognized local group. They didn't just show up with a bullhorn to speak on the public square atop a soap box and stir up a fight. No one was forced to see or hear them, no one had to go out of their way to avoid them. They are no threat to change anything in the protesters lives. Just being there was enough to piss people off to the point of rioting. What happened to tolerance ?

This is now the age of the Thought Police ...

I'll repeat an observation I made years ago regarding one of my interactions with Jr. He accused me of yelling at him because I quietly said something he didn't like / want to hear ... in my home where he was a guest ...

There's a difference between protesters and extremists and their ideas of tolerance. Despite all the press they receive, Antifa is not the majority, or even thought to be a particularly large organization within the US - though estimates vary. Some of their points are clearly stated, one of which is that "hate speech or racist speech is not protected speech". Despite what right-wing pundits may want their listeners to think, most liberal/left-leaning people do not adhere to that notion, especially if they have any reverence for the ACLU As you know, and history has repeatedly shown, it only takes a small faction of a group/gathering (sometimes just a few people) to create mayhem by destroying/burning things or initiating violence.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 3, 2018 - 5:41am

ScottFromWyoming wrote:

She and Milo were trolling though. Yes: everyone knows that there is a population in Berkeley that can't control themselves. I wonder what would happen if, say, Jill Stein came to Wyoming to deliver an address to people who want to hear her talk about gun control, free gender reassignment surgery, and mandatory vaccinations. Whatever, she would be guilty of trolling also.

That's not to say that the responses from the rabble are warranted. But they are somewhat reliably predictable, therefore some blame for the ensuing trouble rests with Coulter, Milo, Stein...

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Aug 3, 2018 - 5:24am
He continues his psychotic projection... Any high school psych class student can see the man is cracked.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Aug 3, 2018 - 5:22am
Steely_D wrote: "I have great respect for the U.K. United Kingdom. Great respect. People call it Britain. They call it Great Britain. They used to call it England, different parts." (via Fox) — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 2, 2018 The Idiot In Chief. I could eat a can of alphabet soup and shit a more coherent sentence.

Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 9:00pm
"I have great respect for the U.K. United Kingdom. Great respect. People call it Britain. They call it Great Britain. They used to call it England, different parts." (via Fox) — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 2, 2018

ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 8:56pm

kurtster wrote:

Ann Coulter should be prevented from speaking in an auditorium or some small closed venue, speaking peacefully only to people who want to hear her, because some people are going to get pissed off and start a riot simply because she is there, then I completely disagree with you.

Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 8:35pm
R_P wrote: Moral relativism FTW! Which is weird, considering that the hyper-conservative Right is so associated with religion with its inherent and unbreakable association with God and judgement and right/wrong. None of their arguments should include whataboutism, but a judgement of their own actions against the scale of "did they do what is right?"

R_P

Gender:

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 8:09pm
Steely_D wrote: This feels so much like saying that there is no right or wrong, and may the loudest/richest bully win no matter how informed they are. Education, talent, even manners are all irrelevant because look at the other guy, won'tcha? (...) Moral relativism FTW!

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 8:00pm

ScottFromWyoming wrote:

So you agree that the police should have stopped the Charlottesville and Berkeley events before they started, because they knew a zone of terror and lawlessness would ensue.

At the very least made their presence known and on site, not blocks away. They should be there to deter violence, not just react to it. That is the order part of law and order. We all have the right to peaceful public assembly. But organizations that have a history of violence should be precluded from assembly in the permit process. Deny the permits and let everyone battle it out in court, not on the streets. If the cops know there is going to be trouble, they are supposed to prevent it from happening in the first place. In Berkeley, the protesters know going in that the police will only watch until they themselves are threatened. Don't bother the cops and they can do what ever they want as your piece mentioned, let them fight it out amongst themselves. But it should be stopped before it gets down to the cops in the circumstances I mentioned above. So in those terms, I agree with you. But if your going to say that a person like Ann Coulter should be prevented from speaking in an auditorium or some small closed venue, speaking peacefully only to people who want to hear her, because some people are going to get pissed off and start a riot simply because she is there, then I completely disagree with you.

In Charlottesville we know that the police stood far away from the protesters, too far away as it turned out. The police follow orders. Who tells them to do these things ? In Portland, it was the mayor as we know in the piece I mentioned below. Remember Baltimore ? We know that the mayor told the cops to stand down there during the riots as well.

ScottFromWyoming

ScottFromWyoming Avatar

Location: Powell
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 7:22pm

kurtster wrote:

In Portland, it is a left-right issue ...

.
Immigration agents’ union slams Portland mayor over protest

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — The union representing employees of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement urged the mayor of Portland, Oregon, to end his ban on city police helping ICE workers who have faced hostility from pro-immigrant activists.

Sean Riddell, the union’s attorney, asked Mayor Ted Wheeler for a meeting about the hands-off policy and threatened legal action if things do not change.

“Your policy has created a zone of terror and lawlessness,” Riddell said in a letter Monday.

So you agree that the police should have stopped the Charlottesville and Berkeley events before they started, because they knew a zone of terror and lawlessness would ensue.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 7:10pm
Steely_D wrote: Exactly. They would have repealed the Emancipation Proclamation by now.

Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 7:05pm
Red_Dragon wrote: Think just for a moment about all the current occupant of the white house has said and done. Now imagine that Obama had said and done the same things. Enough said.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 7:01pm
Think just for a moment about all the current occupant of the white house has said and done. Now imagine that Obama had said and done the same things. Enough said.

kcar

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 6:57pm

pigtail wrote:

Also if Democrats gave this tariff relief to subsidize a policy they put in place? Can you imagine the conservative uproar? He is basically taking our money and offering relief to those he ultimately punished in the first place. This makes absolutely NO SENSE! No if we bitch about it, the conservatives will be saying we are against the American farmer. Yes I am predicting next week headlines. It's not that hard to do. This clown is about as functional as an advanced Alzheimer patient in office. Oh yeah, we had one of those too.

FWIW, the NYT ran an article that interviewed a number of farmers who were not at all enthused about the tariff relief. A number of them DID comment that the relief struck them as something like socialism. Most of the farmers thought that putting up tariffs was dumb in the first place and worried that their overseas customers would not be ready or willing to buy from them again once trade tensions died down. They just wanted to grow their crops and sell them.

kurtster

kurtster Avatar

Location: where fear is not a virtue
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 6:41pm

ScottFromWyoming wrote:

You know, what we've seen over the last couple of years is that the far-right groups and the white supremacist groups and fascist groups, they want to go to the places where they have the most opposition. So Portland is an insanely liberal city. Berkeley, Calif., is a remarkably liberal city. Charlottesville, Va., you can say the same thing in many regards. And so they're going to places where they will provoke and where there will be heavy resistance from the locals. And I think that's part of what's going on. And I think in the minds of the fascists, the white supremacists, the far-right activists - they say, like, you know, shouldn't we have the right to assemble wherever we want? You know, like, why should the mob keep us from assembling in Berkeley, Calif., just because we're far rightists and not far leftists?
Fresh Air, Aug. 2, 2018

Earlier in the piece he talks about Charlottesville, and how the police made a policy decision to "let them fight it out." Police opting to not intervene isn't a left-right issue, but a failed tactics issue.

In Portland, it is a left-right issue ...

.
Immigration agents’ union slams Portland mayor over protest

Sean Riddell, the union’s attorney, asked Mayor Ted Wheeler for a meeting about the hands-off policy and threatened legal action if things do not change.

“Your policy has created a zone of terror and lawlessness,” Riddell said in a letter Monday.

Red_Dragon

Red_Dragon Avatar

Location: Dumbf*ckistan

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 5:38pm

ScottFromWyoming wrote:

You know, what we've seen over the last couple of years is that the far-right groups and the white supremacist groups and fascist groups, they want to go to the places where they have the most opposition. So Portland is an insanely liberal city. Berkeley, Calif., is a remarkably liberal city. Charlottesville, Va., you can say the same thing in many regards. And so they're going to places where they will provoke and where there will be heavy resistance from the locals. And I think that's part of what's going on. And I think in the minds of the fascists, the white supremacists, the far-right activists - they say, like, you know, shouldn't we have the right to assemble wherever we want? You know, like, why should the mob keep us from assembling in Berkeley, Calif., just because we're far rightists and not far leftists?
Fresh Air, Aug. 2, 2018

Earlier in the piece he talks about Charlottesville, and how the police made a policy decision to "let them fight it out." Police opting to not intervene isn't a left-right issue, but a failed tactics issue.

Yeah, I was just listening to a story about Charlottesville on the radio just now. Has anyone filed suit against the PD for electing not to do their goddam job?

ScottFromWyoming

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Location: Powell
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 5:20pm

kurtster wrote:

And the Berkeley and campus cops standing down when ANTIFA is around burning the place down while barring Coulter from speaking because of "public safety issues" is a load of shit.

You know, what we've seen over the last couple of years is that the far-right groups and the white supremacist groups and fascist groups, they want to go to the places where they have the most opposition. So Portland is an insanely liberal city. Berkeley, Calif., is a remarkably liberal city. Charlottesville, Va., you can say the same thing in many regards. And so they're going to places where they will provoke and where there will be heavy resistance from the locals. And I think that's part of what's going on. And I think in the minds of the fascists, the white supremacists, the far-right activists - they say, like, you know, shouldn't we have the right to assemble wherever we want? You know, like, why should the mob keep us from assembling in Berkeley, Calif., just because we're far rightists and not far leftists?
Fresh Air, Aug. 2, 2018

Steely_D

Steely_D Avatar

Location: Biscayne Bay
Gender: Male

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 3:08pm

kurtster wrote:

That is your opinion of her and her point of view. That may be how I feel about Maxine Waters. They both still have the right to be heard, period. You may think Coulter is screaming FIRE, but there are some who would disgree with you. But your opinion is more valid than those who disagree with you ? Really ?

One thing we can be certain of ... a fire is a real thing, not a perceived thing. Your thinking of Coulter screaming FIRE with her rhetoric is just your perception. ANTIFA actually starting fires on the CAL campus is real. And the Berkeley and campus cops standing down when ANTIFA is around burning the place down while barring Coulter from speaking because of "public safety issues" is a load of shit.

This feels so much like saying that there is no right or wrong, and may the loudest/richest bully win no matter how informed they are.

Education, talent, even manners are all irrelevant because look at the other guy, won'tcha?
Which is what this past election was all about, really.

steeler

steeler Avatar

Location: Perched on the precipice of the cauldron of truth

Posted: Aug 2, 2018 - 2:24pm

pigtail wrote:

I wasn't talking about the farmer's response. I was commenting on the fact that Trump is offering relief due to a policy he enacted.

Twas a joke — or at least an attempt at one!

Also: I just realized there is a message of yours underneath the repost of the cartoon. When I hit my reply, for some reason, there was no message underneath it that appeared on my screen. So, I did not see that comment until now. Did not mean to tread upon it.

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